If You Want To LOVE YOURSELF To The Core, WATCH THIS! | Byron Katie & Jay Shetty | Transcription

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Introduction

Intro (00:00)

All suffering is created and it's true for every human being. We believe our thoughts, we suffer, we question, then we don't suffer. So unquestioned life is not worth living and that's certainly my experience too. When you said that you were depressed for over a decade, and I want to start by asking you, how would you describe that chapter of your life of what it felt like and how different it is to how you feel now? Oh gosh, it was horrible. It is something that I would never want another human being to have to live through. And in my world, people are experiencing that. You know, they're emails that come into me and they're, I love my emails that, you know, there is a way out of suffering, but I didn't know that. And to wake up in the morning, Jay and realize that I was still breathing felt like some theme was intentionally torturing me. And I was so suicidal and agoraphobic, so just trapped most of the time in my bedroom. And it was not fun. Let's see, describe it to you. My self-esteem and self-loathing was so strong that I was sleeping on the floor one morning as I usually did. And next to my bed, because I was so full of self-loathing that I didn't believe I deserved a bed, that's the bottom line. So all I deserved was a sleep on the floor. But this particular morning, as I lay sleeping on the floor, I was in like this dead sleep, and a cockroach crawled over my foot. I opened my eyes and basically all the suffering was gone. All the suffering was gone. And the valuable thing was that I saw when I believed my thoughts I suffered, but when I didn't believe my thoughts, I didn't suffer. And the way that I saw that is when I opened my eyes, the ego did not have opportunity to fill that space. And everything was present. And that I began to laugh. It was like I got the joke. I got it. And I saw what I was thinking and believing was the cause of my suffering. And then the work was born on the floor in that moment. It was how all suffering is created. And it's true for every human being. We believe our thoughts, we suffer, we question, then we don't suffer. So some great minds said, unquestioned life is not worth living. And that's certainly my experience too.

In-Depth Discussion On Thoughts And Beliefs

Reaction to Ingrained Thoughts (03:15)

That's incredible that you were able to birth a whole new way of thinking in that moment. And I wonder, what were those thoughts that you were believing at that time? Where were they coming from? Was it family? Was it parenting? Was it relationships? It was from me. There's something terrible is going to happen. There's something wrong with me. The world doesn't really care about me. No one cares about anyone. He doesn't care about me. I can't do it. All these, and I didn't even know what the it was most of the time that I couldn't do. It was just this this crazy and the effect of believing those thoughts is depression, was depression and guilt and insanity. And from that moment on the floor, anytime my head, we could say thoughts, what hit is it true? It would just, the thoughts would happen, like something terrible is going to happen. And it would evaporate. It couldn't continue after that moment on the floor. And so when people began to ask me, which was really strange, an agoraphobic being asked anyone being in touch with an agoraphobic is pretty rare. But people began to just call me from all over the world. It was just one by one by one. And ask what, could they come live with me? The strangest questions. And I didn't know if it was the water I was drinking, the food I was eating. I had, because everything had so radically flipped, just like from one polarity to the other. But then when they'd ask what happened, and they would say life isn't worth living, and it would blow my mind because I knew they knew better. I knew they knew better because I'm still, I, once you know your own true nature, you see it in everyone and everything. And so I began to show them the experience on the floor. I asked the questions, like something terrible is going to happen. Like they would say something terrible is going to happen. And I would say, is it true? And that puts them on the floor, not literally, but it puts them into that experience on the floor. And then how do you react? What happens when you believe the thought? And then they become aware of in that meditative state, how do I react when I believe the thought of seeing those images of the past not now, and the future not now. And it moves their focus and attention from presence where the given life is, the blessed life is, right here, right now, without being so convoluted or we're not confused when we are present. And whatever we need to do can be done there, and everything to do it with is also present. And then that third question, how do you react when you believe the thought they become aware of the images and what they believe onto the images. So we have the image of, let's say this morning at breakfast, and we see that image of that past. And then we believe words onto that image, and then the imagined life is created. And really that is all of life that most humans understand. It keeps us like in the not now, in the not now, that past future, past future that is not, is not. And the movie is so, it's so all encompassing. We really, like I see me at breakfast, but I really believe that's me, even though I can't take it out of my head, I can't touch it, I can't move it, I can't throw it, there's not, that's not I, so that me of the past, me of the future, now there's three of me. And now all of these past, there are a million of me, there are million of me in the future, who am I? And if we just, who would it be that fourth question, who would I be without the thought? Something terrible is going to happen, for example, dealing with that one. And it just, it just drops the image of the past where something terrible happened, the future where it's going to happen. It dissolves the nothing, all those eyes and the answer to who am I? It's present, just present. And then, you know, people are taking this on as a practice. And as they do take it on as a practice, they see these horrors of the, the guilt of the past and the horrors of the future. And they are awake to not I, not I, not I, not I, all the not now. So they are with the one they love, the beloved themselves awake to the given, you know, the love of life, not life imagined, but the love of, oh, you know, you know, Jay, you know, of all people what it's like to see, to see. It's, oh my goodness, I could add stuff to it like it sparkles and shines and then it's none of those things and it's all of those things. And it's, and it's humbling. It's, it's being gifted. And so I understand why people want to be in the now, but how? And of course, I was showing this one way and there are so many beautiful ways. It doesn't have to be just this or just that there's something for everyone. And, and, and what I love about inquiry is it works with everything. It's not it doesn't oppose anything. It doesn't even say answer me, you know, it just is like, like given freely. And so it, after all these years, you know, more than three decades, it still excites me just to answer your question and feel like I'm taking over your entire program. I love listening. It's beautiful. And what I'm hearing so wonderfully is when these questions and you use the word inquiry, it's like when these questions are these genuine sincere requests and questions as opposed to these demands.

why is this happening to me (10:13)

And I feel often our questions in the world are demands to the universe as opposed to these inquiries. And so we often ask questions, we're always asking questions. Yeah, even with our thoughts, but often we're asking demanding questions like, why is this happening to me? When is this going to end? Yeah. Why is this not stopping? And those are not really questions. They're rhetorical demands. Yeah. And, and I find that when we ask questions like that, we know that let alone the universe, even our friends would not respond to questions like that, because they're not really looking for an answer. And so I love the way you're reminding us. Now, tell us, Katie, if someone right now, and you have shown us the work, you're told us about the questioning process, but if someone right now is, and especially right now is going through anxiety, depression, suffering from mental health, they are looking at the scenario of the world, and they're having those thoughts. Yes. And one would say they're very valid to have those thoughts, especially right now. And there have been times in history, what would be the first thing you would say that they need to do in order to realize that there is hope for them? Because I think for so many people, they get to this point where they believe their thoughts so much that they feel there is no hope left. Yeah. And there's no chance, just like you were saying you felt. I would say first, get in touch with your emotions, because they're the most, they're the closest thing to you. And what's on my emotions? What stops us from that? The truth sets me free. And that's my experience, unless it's drugs, what we do our best. And so I tried all of that, and I did it well. And it took me literally to the floor. But I would say get in touch with your emotions. Like when we're angry, for example, we feel it and we tense. And so to first get in touch with your emotions, in other words, notice, notice, and then move up to your head and notice, because those emotions let you know, remind you of what you're thinking and believing is the cause of your suffering. And so then you can identify the thoughts you're thinking. And then don't trust them to stay. Move them from your head to paper. And then sit with those four questions with like, he doesn't care about me that belongs on paper. And then you question at using these four questions and turn arounds. And the turn arounds are just finding opposites. So it's all always free. Anything I have a value, if I have something of value, it's always free on ByronCady.com or the word.com. And how to do this is there, because if someone had told me, you know, when you feel your emotions, just get in touch with them. And what are you thinking and believing? I would say, give me a cigarette in the days we used to smoke. Yeah. And I love that about getting it down into paper. I think it's so important to get out of our heads. And you know, when things are in your mind, you think that they're there, but they can get convoluted and polluted. And so I often say to people as well, which I love is getting out on the paper is almost sometimes voice noting and recording your own voice and hearing it. It puts you in such an absurd mind. It does. And you're like, when you can hear yourself, you can hear what you're really trying to say. And when you're really trying to communicate, it's almost like hearing in between the lines for yourself, same with writing it down, when you can read out to yourself. I think there's such powerful tools. I love it when I've heard you say that to judge people is to keep them separate from me. And I like that so much, especially right now, because I feel that judgment is what creates so much divide. And sometimes even what I find is more subtle is judgment of judgment. So it's we think that we are being right by judging, but actually we're simply judging someone for their judgment, if you know what I mean. It keeps us separate. It is the sense I put between you and me. And I feel that separation. So I'm just going to come at you, whether you like it or not until you understand me. But it's my fence I have put up between us. The cause of all suffering is what we're thinking and believing. So what you and I are talking about right now is the cause of suffering. It's what we're thinking and believing. That is attachment. The Buddha talks about attachments. We religions talk about attachment and, gosh, there's something else, but we'll say attachment. And what we're talking about is the most important thing to identify what we're thinking and believing is to identify the cause of suffering. And to question it is to set our self free and to question that really is a meditative process. For example, if I think there's this is a terrible place, this world is a terrible place. My mind will show me all the images of the past, the proven and the future that says it's going to happen again, it proves it. What we're thinking and believing is proven within us. But it's, as we say, nowadays, fake news. It's fake news. And because it's not real, it's it's imaging. It's dreaming. It's the dream world. So to ask is it true begins to wake us up to reality. And the valid answer, we, when we ask, is it true to meditate, to get still in that and not to ask the question of ourselves, if we don't really want what we're asking to meet the question. And what we're asking to meet the question is that don't know world that is so unavailable to us when we are living as believers in these terrifying, depressive states of mind. What are some beliefs that we should have then? Because if we're believing so many of the wrong thoughts, what are some of the thoughts that we should believe?

possible beliefs we should have (17:18)

Is there a word? Words become like matches for our true nature and or a match to the heart. Like, if I think there's something wrong with him or her or them, you know, a society, for example, but there's something wrong with him, then my mind immediately shows me all the proof. And but it's not proof. It's a state of mind. And then it shows me the future where he's going to do that to me too. You know, that's going to happen here too. And so I don't see that him, I'm with, I see who I imagine him to be. So that's who I'm talking to. So I like to say no two people have ever met. We're crazy. We are talking to a phantom and we're so convinced. And so, you know, this this work wakes us up wakes me up to reality. And I forgot your question actually slipped. Hey, no, my no, that was beautiful. My question was because you're saying that we sometimes believe our negative thoughts and that's what creates our suffering. Oh, replacement. So are there any thoughts that we should have? Are there any beliefs we should have? Well, let's let's say I think there's something wrong with him. And is it true? Can I really know that's how do I react when I believe the thought? I see that past future and the gene and all of that, who would I be without it? And I'm just meditating, dropping my story, dropping that identification on him, taking all the post-its I believed onto him. And I just see him. And I see him. And without what I'm believing onto him. And then what I turn it around, there's something wrong with him turned around. There's something wrong with me. And I'm not exchanging one belief for another. I am going to try it on as though it were a shoe. I tried on and I fell in love with an issue store. I don't know if it fits. I've got to try it on. So there's something wrong with him turned around. There's something wrong with me. I'm going to try it on. Now in that situation with him, there's something wrong with me. Okay, my attitude. I was experiencing a little fear, a lot of separation. There's something wrong with me. I see him differently when I dropped my story on him. That was mine. There's something wrong with me. So I am meditating in a moment in time. And I'm present. And if I see something, if I see something unacceptable in my world, I look to me. I don't look to other people. They cannot give me the answers that I'm seeking. And often they say things that enlighten me, that wake me up, that change my life. But I'm the one that heard them. As I'm in a hurry, I was in a hurry. And I was granted a gift and it came freely. And now that belongs to everyone. And no one has to be open to it either. But I just know my job, like you know yours. We know our jobs. We give the gift. And it grows in us each time we do. And what about so many people I hear today who are reconnecting with some of the pains in their childhood that they may not have even been aware of? So when we look at childhood trauma, we look at abandonment issues, we look at the feeling of not feeling nurtured.

Byron Katies tools to question our thoughts. (21:27)

Like we look at the feeling of being rejected or neglected as a child and we carry this. And we care. And sometimes we don't become aware of it until we're much older. So true. How does someone go about processing that? Because I feel that that also reflects in the type of partners we choose for ourselves. It reflects in our communication with our friends and our bosses and our colleagues. It creates so many issues. It affects everything. It affects our identification. The people I work with so that they understand how to work with it themselves. Is I and I asked them to go into like go into the trauma, get into the center of that trauma where it was the most painful and identify, meditating in that situation. And that's asking a lot. But to go back into that situation and identify what they were thinking and believing then. Because what they were thinking and believing then was the cause of the trauma. No matter what that person did to me, what I was thinking and believing was the cause of my trauma. So I identify those thoughts. I write them down. And I have a judge and neighbor worksheet on my website. People can download or work it there. And it's a form with six questions that include, and allow us to recall what we were thinking and believing then. So that supports it. And then their thoughts, what they were thinking and believing then, the cause of the trauma. And then they question those thoughts. And they question it from a meditative state from that situation from the center of that terrible situation. Doesn't mean the other person isn't guilty. But it's still what still remains is what I was thinking and believing is the cause of my suffering. So I question those thoughts. And the trauma breaks. And I am enlightened to the cause of my suffering. And that's what I was thinking and believing. And then I have a lot to do. I have a lot to do after that. It's another worksheet and another worksheet. And you know, my mother, for example, said one day that's hypothetically say she said, "Bye, when Kathleen." And I'm just a little kid. I'm just Google go, go, I'm just doing the, the, the, the, and it doesn't mean anything to me. And she says, "Bye, when Kathleen." And it means nothing to me. And then let's say three weeks go by, da, da, da, da, da, and she says, "Byron Kathleen." And then one of my siblings say, "Byron Kathleen." And, and it, and my mother says it, my father says it. And then one day my mother says it, and I believe, I believe. And prior to that, I was not. The moment I believed, I am. And the same with I'm a female. I'm this age. I have this color here. I have this color skin. I have this. And now you have this and you are that and you are that. So I'm multiplying like being in a mirror. And, and the whole world is reflecting what I believe back to me. So to go back to the beginning. And, and, and, and question, you know, my name is Byron Kathleen. You know, and that's so close to the ego. I don't invite people to go there. But if you're, let's say you, you're raising children. Oh, I just, I just, this work is free. All it will cost you is your identity. You want to leave you when a kinder one. That is so powerful. What you were just saying there about constantly taking back to when, what was your belief at that time? What were your thoughts and your belief at that time? Because there are so many times when we believe and we have created a thought that we trust this person. Yet we never knew if they were trustworthy. We never allowed them to earn our trust. We just gave it to them. And then we wonder why they broke it. And it's because of that time we chose to give them our trust. We chose when we consider what we were thinking and believing. You know, we look to ourselves. They didn't, they didn't call me into trusting them. I believed this, this and this. And I trust in that. Yeah. Now you say in that regard, you also say that there's nothing that isn't a gift. It's a friendly universe. You say? Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. It was a friendly universe. I get goosebumps just, just hearing it from you. It is a friendly universe. And but what I'm thinking and believing about this, about this universe could use a little work if I don't love it. As it is. And we question what we're thinking and believing about life. And it leaves us in a friendly universe. It's the most, it's a radical thing to wake up to reality. No downside. It's hard to accept because of our desire to control. And our desire for my ego for things to be the way we want them to be. Our desire to be God. And that's, and our desire to be God is an honest thing. It's just flipped into the ego's possession. So it's, so we question what we're believing and we become very humbled. And then eventually we see that that we, oh boy, this is, this is, this is wild, but still it's like, I, I believed this universe into being. And if I don't love it, I need to question my universe. And that means question what I believe about you, about me, about them, about it, about God, about everything and wake up to reality. And without any preconceived idea about what it is. And in my experience, it's nameless anyway, nameless would take away from the beauty of is that beautiful and even claim it is, says what it isn't, it's more than that. It's, it's disrespectful for me to even attempt. It's more beautiful than that. And I love, I know that my community will be really interested in this, Katie, is how does this then affect our relationships and our communication with those that we love? We're closer, closer, closer, closer, closer, no space, no distance, no, no separation, just living out of our true nature and trusting that it's a fear of the state of mind, which means that there's nothing we cannot accomplish. You know, we wanted to accomplish something. If we don't, we consider and we consider what we were thinking and believing that stops us, then inquiry leaves us in this fearless state of mind. And it's, and it's really good to be clear what you're going after, you know, what it is you really want. And so for me, that's, that's, that's a part of the journey. I want people, people to be free. And, and, and why am, why am I, why am I doing what I do? Because I have seen they're already free. That leaves me jobless. They're already free. And then I discovered that, that, that what we're thinking and believing, what people are thinking and believing is the only prison they've got. So I see, like, on television, hungry children, people suffering. And I have been in some of those positions. And I have set in the, in the center of those experience and identified what I was thinking and believing. And other than that, I was okay. So I understand that the world is, again, it's a, it's a friendly universe, Jay. And I'm very open to, to it not being. So I continue to test it. And your test seems to be proving your hypothesis correct. And I see a lot of good. I would say I see only good in anything less than that. I question. Yeah. I love what you say about the three businesses. Can you share about the three businesses? Yeah. I really like that. If I look at it at, like my daughter, let's say one of my, the way she's raising her children, for example, or one of my sons, there are three kinds of business and all of the universities, mine, yours and gods.

Our business, others, and God's business. (31:20)

And that's the God of your understanding. And if I'm mentally in my daughter's business, I'm sitting here with you, but mentally I'm in her house, knowing how she should raise her children, knowing what she should do, all of, all of this. I'm talking to you, but I'm over there in my daughter's business. So if I'm feeling disconnected from you, I can just ask myself mentally, whose business am I in and notice and emotions will let me know for sure. And then just come right back to right here, right now. And this is where I can make change. I can't make change over there. I'm, you know, I can't be in all these places at once, but we are, we're all over the world. His business, her business, their business, God's business, the weather's business. That's a great point. That's so true. We really are in our own business. He takes us to everyone else's business. So our social media takes us to other people's business. We're always talking about other people's business. And how do you get your business done if you're always in someone else's business? And when we're present, we can observe life from out of a, it sounds strange, but out of a proactive state of mind and understanding, I think, is the better word. And stay present and watch these things on televisions and walk in Black Lives Matter events. And we can do the most marvelous things and still be present. But fear stops us from, I don't have the right clothes. And I wonder if I need to take a lunch. And I did, oh, well, this is just, you know, I don't think I'll bother today. You know, what would stop us from doing the right thing, our hearts desire. And literally, our hearts desire and to live out of that fear. Yeah, what, Kati, what is the secret to your long, incredible relationship with Steve? Oh, how did you both find each other?

How did you know that you were right for each other? (33:47)

How did you both know that you were right for each other? And how did you, he's better at telling this story. But my, a friend of mine said that I just needed to meet him. And that he's the one person in the world that could write on my book, Loving Wood is. And, and oh gosh, how do I tell the story? He's so good at it. You know, the bottom line, oh, this sounds the sound so he asked me to marry him. And I didn't know why not. And that's the truth of it. And I asked my three grown children, do you have a reason why I shouldn't marry Stephen? And they didn't have one and I didn't have one. And what I knew of Stephen is he is good and kind and wise. And there just was no reason the world not. But when you have a perfect life, when you're never lonely, let's say I'm always alone and never lonely as far as people go.

When you have a perfect life. (34:44)

I don't need anyone. And, and I married him and he, I mean, just, he is just so completely lovable, dear and kind. And, and just, I don't know how the, how the story sounds, but who wouldn't love that? Absolutely. You know, it's goodness and kindness and fairness and brilliance and, oh, the, you know, all the things I, and in my life before the work, the opposite what attracted me looks and the real man and the, you know, all the, the usual, usual. And I didn't do well in those areas. That's such a powerful point. I'm so glad you raised that because what we're attracted to is also what we're thinking and believing. And so sometimes when we say, well, this is my type or this is the kind of guy or girl or whoever it is that I'm attracted to, what we're saying is we think and believe that this will make us happy. Yes. Their, their appearance, their job, their status, their whatever it may be will make us happy. And we don't question that. We wonder why the person let us down, but it, using your methodology, the work, as soon as we go back to what we're thinking and believing at that time, we start to write that what we thought and believed would make us happy is what let us down. Yeah, but we were thinking and believing about that human being on was the cause of our attraction.

Whats your thoughts and beliefs? (36:43)

Yes. But once we question what we were thinking and believing about the human being, it loses its validity really and leaves us in an open state of mind where we're more able to see and hear rather than think over. Yes. Yes. So well said. And that's, it's really registering. And for everyone who's listening or watching right now, when you, when you're listening to this, I really hope that the repetition, every time Katie keeps talking about thinking and believing, what are your thoughts and what are your beliefs? If you genuinely revisit those pivotal, crucial, transitional moments of your life, you recognize that all of that pain and suffering that you are experiencing or holding on to comes from a thought and a belief that you're still holding on to. Sometimes we're holding on for decades to a thought and belief that this person can still make me happy. And that's what we want them to be back into our lives. We are holding on to belief that only that job can make me happy or only that thing can make me happy. That is a thought and belief and in that thought and belief is encapsulated all of our suffering. It's almost taking a suffering collaboration. And then when we get that job, we can't appreciate it because we're taking the same thinking into that job. So really, not a lot changes, maybe the money, but that's never enough either. Yeah, it's so profound for me. It's really hearing you repeat it today. And I've heard it before from you, but hearing you repeat it today and I'm really hoping everyone's listening is feeling the same way. Every time you say it's just going to step deeper and deeper and deeper into my head to my heart. And it is work. It takes stillness. It's a meditative practice, you know, sitting in, is it true? And then having the courage to sit in, how do I react? How do I treat that person? How do I treat myself when I believe the thought? And then I get still and I witness and I'm not guessing at how I react and how I treat that person and how I treat myself. I'm witnessing real deal and who would I be without it? And then I get to see the same situation again, as I said earlier, the post-its I was putting on the event and I get to witness the real world.

Living the work. (39:00)

I'm sitting in the old world new. And then I have a lot of amends to make. You know, I need to go back to that person and admit my wrong and apologize and make it right and start over. It's living, it's enlightenment has no power until it's lived. So to live it out, it goes into the identity, the cells of this apparent body. And it's like it wouldn't overlook anything. Love is a power that leads nothing out. So true. So true. Katie, I'd like to share these final two segments with you. This segment of the interview is called fill in the blanks. So I read a statement and I asked you to fill in the blanks for us and we walked through them. So let's do that. So my first one for you is thoughts and judgments are and you can fill in the blanks. Thoughts. Okay. True freedom starts with inquiry. Beautiful. Being present means love. Most people believe in goodness. The work has allowed me to be free. Change is hardest when? My mind's not open to the world. Yes. I have no tolerance for to be continued. Life will show me what I have no tolerance for. I think of paying, but even physical pain is either remembered or anticipated. Yeah.

Final Thoughts

Final 5. (41:01)

That's a beautiful answer. I like it. And now when I ask you what is our final five. So this is the final five where you answer and that was beautiful by the way, Katie, you answer every answer with one word to one sentence maximum. So these are five powerful questions. These are your final five, Katie. This is your first one. What did you once pursue but no longer value? Power. Beautiful. Second question. What do you know to be absolutely true? Nothing. Oh, wow. Okay. Third question. What do you feel is so right but other people disagree with you? What is something that you know to be true but other people would disagree or debate? That you're beautiful. I love that. Okay. Question number four. If you could create a law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would that law be? Honesty. Authenticity. And your fifth and final question, what was the biggest lesson you've learned in the last 12 months? It's nothing out of order. Oh, wow. Thank you so much for watching that video. If you enjoyed it, here's another one I think you'll love. People behave based on how they were loved and then how they were able to process that in a way to love other people.