LOVE EXPERT ON: When A Man TRULY LOVES You, He Will DO THIS! | Stephan Speaks & Jay Shetty | Transcription

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Introduction

Intro (00:00)

You have to be honest with yourself about why are you still here? Why are you holding on? What's really driving you? You don't feel like starting the process over with somebody else. So even though you're not feeling it with him, you're wasting your time. The best selling author and host. The number one healthy wellness podcast. One purpose with Jay Shetty. What are the signs that someone deeply loves you? Because I feel like we live in this world where we're always wondering, do they love me? Do they like me? Do they really like me? Are they really into me? How do you know when you deeply love someone and when someone deeply loves you? How do you even know? So I'm gonna start with an answer that people probably won't expect. Yeah. To me, the first key is, do you truly love them? Because look at it like this. To me, a lot of people get caught up in infatuation. They have unhealthy attachments. They have different motivations to why they decided this is the person that I want. And that can make them feel like they're in love. But to me, true love flows both ways. It's not a one sided thing. So when you can say, I'm not into them like that. If we look deep into that situation, I can almost guarantee what we'll find is infatuation attachment, something else. But when you can say, no, I feel it too. I'm deeply in love with them. I think that's your first key. Because without that, nothing else matters. Because a lot of people are choosing partners based off of what they love me so much. So I assume it's safe here. And this is a good choice to make. But the safe choice is usually the wrong choice. And a lot of these people select this individual thinking everything's gonna be okay.

Understanding Love And Relationships

What are the signs that someone deeply loves you? (01:40)

But because you're not really into them, you can never be what they need. And they were never truly what you needed, which is why you never even got to that level with them. So to choose them without first evaluating, do you truly love them would not be wise? Yeah, that's a great question. And I think people struggle with that question too, because I think we think of love as so many different things wrapped into one. For example, I could think I love someone because of how they treat me. I could think I love someone because they have one quality that I really wish I had. Or I could love someone because I think that they're out of my league and they give me a bit of attention. Yeah. And so what we think is love is so complex and so wide that we never stop to ask ourselves like, what does love mean? Like, what's the definition of love? Like, how do I define love? So how do you define love and how do you encourage other people to create their definitions of love? Well, for me, first off, is always God is love. And then when we take it from there, love is about kindness, compassion, patience, understanding, a willingness to be selfless and pour into that individual. But I think what's also important for people to understand is when we're trying to apply it to romantic relationships, we have to understand that there's other ingredients that are necessary before we can move forward. So you could love someone dearly, but if they are not emotionally ready, because maybe they haven't healed from their past, maybe there's still some things that need to work out in their life, then it wouldn't be time to move forward in a relationship with them. And we have this bad habit of the minute we feel like there's love there, we want to move forward. Exactly. And as you mentioned, we can get caught up sometimes in, but we love them because of what they do for us. But what are you prepared to do for them? Love is about giving, all right? So we have to ask ourselves, okay, do we know what their needs are? Are we willing to fulfill those needs? Because if not, maybe this wasn't love. Maybe it just felt good in the moment. Maybe you got caught up in the hype and that's okay. It happens to almost all of us, if not all of us at some point in life. But we have to just be very clear with ourselves about what's really driving the intention right now. But I think all those things I mentioned is what encompasses love.

Both partners need to be emotionally ready to grow love (04:01)

And that's like the foundation of it. And then from there, we have to look at some other things to see how we can move forward. So many times, like you convince yourself something's love. What I find really interesting is that so many people fall in love too fast and no one wants to go for the slow patient understanding love, which is what love requires. You just said love is kind, love is patient, love is understanding. Those things take time. I think those things take time to nurture and to make sure that we're doing it correctly for each other. So it's about learning each other's love languages and how we make it work within that dynamic. I think also because so many people are not used to dealing with emotions on that level, being that vulnerable, people mishandle it. All right. So it takes time for us to get to a place so we understand how to manage this and work through this. However, I think that I'm a huge believer in connection. And I believe connection is like your spirit recognizing its match. And it's very instant when you speak to couples who said they experience a connection, they'll tell you first conversation, first time meeting, first date, first week, it was pretty fast. So to me, the recognizing of something deeper being here can happen very quickly. But how we now cultivate that and how we move forward is where we need to take our time and make sure we're not rushing and overlooking certain important issues that need to be discussed and addressed first. To me, it's the understanding of chemistry versus compatibility and the idea that there needs to be a spark, there needs to be a connection that I feel with someone, like you're saying on a deeper level, but I find that I find that most people are not adept and knowing whether the connection they feel with someone is deeper or physical. Yeah. Like I would say that it's easy to, you can often feel a spark with, if you meet a lot of people, you can feel a spark with a lot of people. But that doesn't mean that they're the right person to build a relationship with. Absolutely. Right? So connection to me is a very rare occurrence. Right. Yes. So I feel that people who've actually experienced it, they can tell you maybe once in their life, if you're lucky, two times maybe. All right. But it's not this thing that happens with everybody. Whereas chemistry, feeling a spark, these things can happen with a lot of different people. Yes. I think there's this education that's needed to understand how we differentiate these things so that we don't confuse them. Because I see a lot of people take that chemistry and think, "Oh, this is it. This is the one." And it's like, "But you had chemistry with the last five people. Why is this one the one and not them?" So I do think we have to be careful with that. Yeah. I think so we're on the same page. There's three things. There's connection on the deeper level. There's chemistry, which is like the spark on a more superficial level. And then there's compatibility, which is like what makes it last. And I can relate to that with my wife. I definitely felt so I'm one of those people who I kind of knew from the first few moments when I met my wife before she was my wife was like, "I was like, 'Yeah, this is my person.' Like I felt that way." Yeah. For sure I felt that connection. And there was chemistry there too, but it had to be turned into compatibility in order to create a long-lasting relationship. We've been together for 10 years, we're still learning, building, going through everything, but that was a big part of it. So that I can get behind. Do you see it that way too? Or is there something different in how you see it? Believe it or not, I used to make compatibility the least important, but that was because I was looking at it the wrong way. Once I kind of looked at the definition again and compatibility is about two people coexisting in harmony, then I was like, "Okay, no, you have to have that." I got caught up more so in like, let's say a dating site says, "Okay, we're going to decide who's compatible." So have you compatible as like an on-the-paper, it looks good. It's supposed to match, but you can have a lot of people who are supposed to be compatible and it doesn't work. Absolutely. So I think that it's compatibility is that add-on, once we have the connection and the chemistry, now we have to create that harmony which is the compatibility. Yes, I agree with you. And it is interesting how that word compatibility is thrown around. And you're so right that compatibility on paper doesn't mean compatibility in real life. And to me, compatibility really has another word inside of it which is like adaptability and that deeper understanding of an individual where you know how much you're willing to adapt around certain parts of the relationship. But we'll get to that. I think a lot of people, like you know, and that's where we got into this conversation around what is slow.

Compatibility is about two people co-existing in harmony (08:56)

A lot of people are waiting to feel like, "Is this person wasting my time or are they the one?" And so they don't have a deeper connection. Maybe they had that spark of chemistry and now that's kind of subsided. How do you know if someone's wasting your time? How do you know if you're letting yourself be used or wasted in that way? So to me, again, I think it always starts with self and you have to be honest with yourself about why are you still here? Why are you holding on? What's really driving you? Because just use an example, let's say you're a woman and the only reason why you're holding onto this guy is because he's a nice guy. You don't feel like starting the process over with somebody else. So even though you're not feeling it with him, you figure, "Let me try to make it work." You're wasting your time. This is where you're setting yourself up for disaster every single time. So if it's not born out of a true connection, love, a genuine desire, you really like this individual. Of course, there's always things we have to work through but it's the foundation strong enough for us to say, "Okay, we can make something special here." And I think once we are honest with ourselves, that kind of helps answer the question because sometimes we get so caught up trying to analyze the other individual that it's like we get in our heads and now we're missing the mark on what's really important here. And we can't always say for sure what's going on with them. I will say that in general, if this person isn't willing to talk about things, they're wasting your time. If they're not willing to address or correct things that have been talked about, they're wasting your time. If you guys aren't on the same page about what you want and where you want to go in life, wasting time. So there are some things I think we can just look at and say, "Listen, this is pointless here." But a lot of times, and I have to say this especially for women, women's intuition is extremely powerful. I'm a huge believer in it. And I feel like women know very early, this isn't it, but they rationalize reasons to convince themselves to give this man a chance. And this again is a waste of time because it just doesn't work. I've seen people turn what should have been maybe a couple weeks of dating into years of being married to someone they were not happy with, all because they did not listen to themselves from the beginning. They knew what it was, but they just could not accept it for what it was. Yeah. And I love that point on intuition. It's almost like when a relationship finally ends, a lot of us think to ourselves, "I knew they weren't right now." Like, "I knew it. I knew that they weren't the one." But you just didn't listen to that part of yourself. Yes. So let's break it down for people. Let's help people out. We started talking about three very important words, connection, which you defined, chemistry, which we've defined in compatibility, which we've defined. How do people know the difference between connection and chemistry when they meet someone? Because I find that the science shows that you're experiencing dopamine and cortisol at the same time. So you're experiencing the reward, chemical and stress chemical at the same time, which gives you that chemistry feeling, which is the feeling of butterflies in your stomach or like, "Do they like me? Are they into me? What should I wear?" That kind of feeling. But then you're talking about a deeper connection. How do you hear the difference? Because I think a lot of us just get swept up in the feeling of, "I'm so into that person, they're so into me." How do you know? I think one is, "Are you even being yourself or can you be yourself with this individual?" If you're presenting your representative, then this is not a real connection. This is them falling for that person that you're presenting, but that's not real. So to me, you should be already being yourself, but with that person, you have a connection with it's a more natural flow. We don't have to force it. We just feel so much more comfortable around them. I think in addition to that is when you find yourself all caught up in the moment and caught up in that chemistry, again, you have to ask yourself, "What am I really attaching myself to? What do I really like about this individual?"

How do you differentiate connection and chemistry, and what stage are you in? (13:10)

What I find is that when it's really about chemistry, we're still on the surface. You don't really know about them yet. You just know you guys had a good time. Maybe you had fun at this event. You guys were able to talk about a lot of different things, which is great, which is going to also be important if there is a connection. However, do you even know what kind of relationship they want? Do you know kind of life they want to live? Are you guys really on the same page? I think connection is our paths align, our purposes align. For us to align, we have to have a deeper understanding of where we're headed and can we head there together. That's why I think though you may feel it or you may feel like you're feeling it, you have to do your due diligence to dig deeper to find out, "Okay, is this just I got caught up on the surface or there is something real here?" I think once we ask enough questions, because that's the other big problem, we have this experience where we feel this chemistry, we're so excited and now we're afraid to ask questions because we don't want to blow up the fantasy. Yes. You know what I'm saying? No, no, no. I want to keep believing this is great. So let me not ask anything. Let me not run this person away. Let me not rock the boat. But that's going to be what tells us if this is real or not. Yes, I think you've hit on something there. We're so scared of losing someone that we're okay with not asking important questions and discovering important truths that actually define whether this relationship is going to last. Absolutely. And that is ultimately going back to your point earlier, that is ultimately you not being yourself. You're losing yourself scared that you're going to lose the other person, so you're okay with not being yourself. Do you think it's ever okay? This is a funny question I think. But I have to ask it because I think it's a healthy discussion. Do you think it's ever okay to present different sides of yourself in order to attract someone or do you think that you're ultimately setting yourself up for failure in a relationship? Just like I think a lot of people, they may not become someone completely different. But I think a lot of people are like, "Oh, I'm going to show my smart side because it will attract this person." Or, "I'm going to show my this side because they'll like that." Are you saying any of that kind of molding is unhealthy or do you think there's room for that? I think anything that is not sustainable is unhealthy. So look at it. If I'm a man and I'm meeting this woman and I want to impress her. I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to try to spend all my money, take a nice five-star restaurant, all these things." But deep inside, I prefer a more simple lifestyle. I don't like all that extra stuff. Okay, that's horrible. That's a self-exhadow. That's unhealthy because you can't sustain what you're presenting to that individual that's going to draw them in. So whatever it is, another common example is you'll have women who love to communicate. They want to be able to talk to you every single day. But because they're afraid of coming off a certain kind of way, they'll hold back on their communication. So now they'll make it seem like they're okay with talking every now and then. We don't always have to text. And then this guy falls for that. He falls for this low standard. I don't want to call it low standard, but not having such a high expectation of him when it comes to communication. Then he finally gets with the woman. Her true self is going to come out at some point. No one can suppress their true self forever. It comes out and now it's like, what is this? I did not sign up for this. Now we're fighting, now we're stressed because you want him to call you more. He was used to you not being worried about it so much.

Is anything that is not sustainable not healthy for any relationship? (16:51)

That's why it's going to always not work out. So it's extremely unhealthy unless we're presenting a side of us that is truly us and we can sustain it. You've hit on something again that at the beginning of relationships, we often display unrealistic standards and we set those. And then when things shift and now you're back in reality again, the other person's like, but wait a minute, I thought you were really into me. And I even went through that with my wife. When we first met, I was able to spend pretty much every day with her because I didn't have a job. And so I was looking for work. I was applying. I would go see her at her college every day and I would spend the day with her. And I'd be in the library applying for jobs while she was studying. And I could see it every day. And I think I saw it every day potentially for like six months, maybe every single day, five days a week at least. And then when I got a job, that wasn't the case anymore. Because I was at work now and I'd set this unrealistic expectation that we could see each other all the time. And even in the beginning, I would see her all the time because I'd spent time with her family, but we wouldn't spend time with my family because I hadn't told my family yet. And so now that my family knew we were trying to split the time and all of a sudden, it was like, wait a minute, we spent time at my house. And so even in little things like that, it took a bit of adapting because I'd set a false standard in our relationship. And then thankfully my wife was adapting and she understood and she got it and it was fine. But I think for so many people, you set unrealistic expectations in who you are. Yes. It's hard to come back from. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's why it's so important for us to know who we are so that we can present the real from the jump. You know, because again, a lot of times people, you know, this idea that we're always changing. Yes, I do think we're always evolving, but some of the big shifts that you see, it's not because that's just the way life is. It's because you did take the time to figure yourself out first. And then you got with this person and now you want them to adjust. Now, thank God for you. She was able to adjust. But there's a lot of people that they can't handle that. And now everything falls apart from there. And so that's why, yeah, we have to be very careful with what we're presenting from the beginning. Yeah. I agree with you on that, that we think people change, but actually they just start to understand themselves better. Yes, exactly. Right. It's like they went from being completely unconscious about who they were. You met an unconscious version of a person. And now you think they're changing, but they just became conscious of who they are. Absolutely. And, but the thing is, Stefan, as you know, like society doesn't encourage that time of getting to know yourself. Right. When you're young, you're not trained in how to think about who you want to be. You're trained in thinking about what you want to do. It's about your job. It's about your career. You're not thinking about who you are as a human being or as a person. So how do we in this society where understanding who you are is not clear, it's not encouraged. Where does one start or where have you kind of found great insights in trying to discover who we are? I would love to see more parents encouraging their children to explore how they're feeling about who they are. Like what I have found is a lot of people who, let's say I had one client where she wanted to be an actress when she was a little kid, but parents kind of pushed in a different direction. Now she's like a social worker. For her desire is still to be an actress. Like the things that they wanted to do, they want to do as an adult now, you can find back in their childhood in a lot of cases. So I feel like too many people have stifled their children's growth in certain areas with limited ideas of, well, this can't make money or this wouldn't be a good look for the family or whatever the case may be. It's like, no, let them walk in it and see for themselves if that's really where they belong. Outside of that, for me, I think the big thing is getting in tune spiritually. I'm just a huge believer in that. I feel like me finding myself was when I went into what I call my wilderness period. I kind of just shut everything off that I was on because I used to be all over having fun partying all these different things and then God kind of slapped me upside my head and I had to like really pull away from everything and go deeper from within. And it felt like a process of breaking me down to build me right back up.

Allowing children to discover themselves and their interests helps them become more self-aware (21:15)

And that's when I start to see things clearer because what I realized is the world is filled with distractions and it's the distractions why we can't see ourselves for who we really are. If we simply shut off the distractions long enough, you will learn a lot. So even if someone just took a year off, don't worry. And limit the TV you're watching, limit the music you're listening to, limit all the internet stuff. Just really go deeper within yourself, spend more time alone, spend more time thinking and processing. You will learn a lot because again, a lot of it is it isn't a problem of we don't know ourselves. We are not aware and we're not willing to accept. And once we allow ourselves to do those two things, become aware and then accept it, we become free. Yeah. I mean, I agree with you. But I've always been a big proponent of solitude to understand who you are because as soon as you have another person, you now have another person's opinions you have to filter. Yes. As soon as you have another person in front of you have another person's judgments to filter. And so now you can't even say what you truly think about something because you're constantly thinking, what does that person think about me and my beliefs? And so understanding your beliefs in solitude allows you to be really clear about what your values and beliefs are. And that's what it's there for. I think when people get into if we switch to compatibility again, the idea we talked about the difference between connection and chemistry, but compatibility is really interesting because a lot of people believe that relationships should be hard and they require hard work. And a lot of people believe relationships should be easy and everything should just flow. Where have you kind of discovered your lens on that spectrum? So okay, there's a there's a couple ways to look at it. I think that most relationships and I'll even be more specific. Most relationships that involve connection and true love are typically hard, not because relationships have to be hard, but because most people have been hurt by something in their life are holding on to past traumas, haven't resolved it. Once they meet this individual that they feel so strongly about, it is scary. This is where things get difficult. It's the difficulty in how do I handle this? How do I manage this? You'll have people feel like they're losing themselves, but they're not losing themselves. The true self is coming out and it's the self that's been hiding behind that wall they've been using for quote unquote protection, but I always say the same ones able to protect you the same while blocking your blessings. So now they're being pulled from behind it. It's makes them feel some kind of way. And again, people start to mishandle things. You also have situations where people are getting bad advice. Like I'm going to give one example.

Why are most relationships difficult and become a continuous struggle? (24:16)

There's this book called The Game by Neil Strzotz. I don't know if you've ever read that book. Yeah, Neil's great. Neil, you know, he went into that world of pickup artistry, learned it, and he was great with the women. But then once he found out that woman that he fell in love with, all that stuff doesn't work anymore. So you have a lot of men being taught how to handle women in general, but they don't understand that's not how you handle the woman you truly love. And so now again, you have individuals who though they are truly in love with this person, they constantly mishandle it with bad guidance, with fear and all these things. This is what makes it hard. And I even think that a lot of times the people who are supposed to be together sometimes will have the hardest time getting together. But I believe that once we're able to conquer that part of it and actually come together, it's not hard. Yes, it takes work. I believe we have to be conscious and mindful of how we treat our partners, how we show up, being willing to listen. But I think it's so much easier to do those things with someone you have a connection with and you're truly in love with. It's going to always feel 10 times harder when you're in the wrong relationship. And I would argue the vast majority of people are in the wrong relationship. That's why they're seeing it be so difficult. And when you see this whole, it's easy. Typically, it's easy because you have two people who are not digging deeper. They're trying to write out that chemistry we talked about earlier for as long as possible, all right? So yeah, it seems like it's great. It's easy, no issues, but it doesn't really work like that because they're just not facing the reality of the situation. So I think we have to understand that there is going to be some bumps in the road because of all the things that people have been through. But once we're able to come together and we know this is our partner, this is who we want to share our life with, it can get so much better. Yeah. And do you think that people have just been given generally the wrong education on how to deal with another person in their life? 100%. Yeah. Because unfortunately, a lot of individuals are giving advice from a bitter hurt place. And they're trying to disguise it as, "I'm just looking out for you." No, you have in healed and you cannot properly guide them in a positive and loving manner. And I think that a lot of people, you know, always say it's funny how we'll spend a lot of time getting educated for the sake of our careers and business, but we don't do the same for relationships. And yet relationships arguably are even more important than that career of business. And even if it's not a romantic relationship, just relationships in general, your ability to coexist with others, connect with others is extremely important. If you want that business to succeed, you have to learn how to establish business relationships. There's no way around it. So we have to learn how to talk to people, listen to people, you know what I'm saying? And just make things work when we come together with other individuals. So I definitely think that we're just lacking in a lot of education. And again, too many, because there's so many voices on the internet now, there's just so much bad advice being given. And the individuals giving it, they may be giving like, let's say 80% of the advice is accurate, but it's that 20% that's completely off that can derail everything. And that's the stuff that people are gravitating to and it's just causing a lot of problems. Can you give us some example of some of the like, not specific people or anything like that? I just mean like, could you give an example of bad advice and what about it is bad or unhealthy for people to try and put into practice? Okay. So one thing I heard recently was an individual told said, some of the best advice you can give to men is to not fall in love. You know, basically just find a woman you want to be with and kind of keep it there. The reason why I view that as horrible advice is because you sit down with any man who's lived enough life. They will all be able to say there's been at least one time they fail deeply for a woman. All right. The problem isn't falling deeply for a woman. The problem is we don't know how to handle it once we get there. The problem is because we're not accustomed to handling and processing our emotions a certain kind of way and being this vulnerable, we don't understand what's going to be required of us in that moment. We also kind of lose sight of, because I'm a big believer in masculine and feminine energy. And I believe that if she was attracted to you because of that masculine energy that you give off and now you become this emotional wreck because you don't know how to handle all these feelings you have for her, well, you start to become less attractive to her. And it's not that it's not fixable. It's fixable. But again, a lack of understanding and awareness, derails of situation.

The love advice you’ve probably heard but shouldn’t practice (29:13)

So rather than telling men don't fall in love because it's inevitable, let's teach them how we walk in love, how we mean what I call loving in your masculine, how you maintain that energy and still be able to pour into that woman in a way that allows relationship to flourish. Yeah. And how does that work when I think obviously a lot of people in that example that you're giving, if the person's attracted to someone because of their masculine energy, but at the same time, they want them to be empathetic and compassionate and kind, which are generally seen as more feminine energy. How does that person balance the two? Or is that is that not how you're explaining is that no, it's about balance. So we have to understand we all have masculine and feminine within us. I'm a believer in one must be your dominant energy. The other is the one you tap into when necessary. So as a man, you can walk in your masculine and in those moments tap into those things, but you can't just stay there all the time. All right. You can't just become this needy, emotional guy that's not going to work in the vast majority of cases. And so what happens is there's this messaging that's being thrown out there that women don't like good guys. I don't believe that's what it is. I believe that women become less attracted when you don't know how to exude and walk in your masculine energy. And we're hiding behind the label of good guy. You can be a good guy and still exude masculine energy. And that's a thing. And we also think that, oh, they like bad boys. No, if you look deeper, it's really the masculine energy that that quote, unquote, bad boy exudes. But what they desire is a mixture of both. The same way that we would want a mixture of both. We would want a loving, sweet woman, feminine woman, whatever. And if you're a guy who wants a masculine woman, cool, but you don't want her to be just that. You know, you want her to have the ability to tap into other side when necessary. I think we all desire that balance on our partner. And I think it's healthy. And if we just learn how to maintain it and how to nurture it, we would see greater success in relationships. Yeah. What are some of the skills with with mastering that energy that you think we're missing out on and balancing that energy and knowing when to be rich and because the reason why it's hard is I think we live in a binary world, right? Like you feel like you have to choose like you're either a bad boy or you're good. You're a doer or you're a thinker, you're a winner or you're a loser, right? Like we think like that. And so people go, okay, I can either be masculine or I can be feminine. And I definitely relate to what you were saying. Like I believe that there is a lot about me that is massively masculine in energy using that language and terminology, my drive, my ambition, how I work, my strategic mind. And at the same time, I consider myself to have a lot of great feminine energy and qualities where it comes to like empowering others and nurturing and the ability to hold deep compassionate space and be empathetic, which are all powerful qualities for everyone, right? Beyond gender, they're powerful qualities. And I appreciate and it's taken a long time to know when to be rich. And I still make mistakes, right? There's still sometimes like, gosh, I should have been more assertive or I should have been more affectionate. So we live in a world that finds it hard to hold two opposing ideas at the same time. We don't know how to do that in any sphere of life, let alone within ourselves. So what are some of the skills that we can learn in order to nurture both those energies in a healthy way inside of ourselves? So I think one, it's going to require a lot of, if you're already in a relationship, it's going to bore down to a lot of transparency and communication. You know, her, if you're that man trying to understand that woman and when you can walk in those two energies, her being willing to be honest and open about, you know what, this was too much over here or I needed some of this over here. And in time, you're going to become more aware and understanding and it's going to be like second nature to you. You won't have to overthink it. And I think part of it is not overthinking it. It's kind of like being ourselves but understanding that we have to learn when this is doing too much and vice versa. I also think that in reality for a lot of men, especially when we're talking about relationships and kind of losing that masculine energy, the underlying issue is fear. All right. When we become so afraid of losing this woman, we lose ourselves. And so a lot of men now fall into this very feminine, needy space because they're just afraid. We have to learn that. Listen, like to me, I feel if your partner thinks you're never going to walk away from them, no matter what they do, you've lost. That's a horrible place to be in. We have to get to a place where we both understand that as long as we show up the way that we need to show up for each other, we have each other's back.

Why do you need to nurture both of your masculine and feminine energy? (34:07)

We will be here. But neither of us will tolerate an unhealthy relationship and someone who blatantly does not want to work on making this better. I would want the woman I'm with to feel that way and I need to feel that way. Once we understand that and you have the confidence of, I can walk away if I have to. That shifts your energy right there in itself. And now you don't find yourself falling into that place where again, you start to look a lot more unattractive or for some men, they become yes men in their relationships, thinking that makes her happy, that's turning her off. She doesn't want to be her yes man. She wants you to stand up for yourself sometimes. Give your opinion, give your perspective. She wants you to be able to, you know, if anything, be able to have discussions with you about these things, not just you say whatever you want, whatever you want, whatever you want. Over time, it becomes a problem. So I think that once we conquer that fear, once we create a space where we can talk about these moments and not feel some kind of way. I think sometimes men are not, they struggle with taking the criticism from their partner. Men and women, we all do when we feel, we have actual feelings for someone. You know, we don't care about you, it's not as big of a deal. But we're emotionally invested, we're more sensitive to it. But we have to understand that these criticisms are for the sake of making things better and strengthen in this relationship. So once we can get to that place, it's going to be so much easier to grow in it. And then I think it's just a matter of understanding that this balance isn't just for your relationship. So look at it like from a sports perspective, if I'm on a basketball team, there may be moments where I need to take the lead and recognize, all right, everyone else is down, someone needs to step up, this is my moment. And then there's other moments where I realize, okay, let's say we already have a team captain, let me show them that I can follow, serve, do what needs to be done so that the team can win. It's just becoming aware of what the moment requires, you know? And again, I think the more in tune we get, the more in tune we get with ourselves and the more in tune we get with our partner, the easier it becomes to find that balance. That's the challenge, right? The challenge is just how much patience we have with ourselves and others to realize that you walked into an imbalanced, unbalanced situation. And now it's like how much patience, how much time are we going to give it to get to that? The challenge is I think we walk into a situation thinking it's perfect, whereas we should be walking into a relationship knowing it's imperfect. Absolutely. And we're going to learn and figure it out together. And I think that's what sets us up for failure is because we walk into it going it's perfect and deep down we know it isn't. But somehow we gloss over it, whereas I find when I know we're going to fight, when I know we're going to argue and I know there's going to be disagreements, that sets me up to develop the skills I need in order to navigate those things. But if I assume like, oh, we're never going to fight and I always get that, right? We always meet someone who goes to me, I mean, a friend who goes to me, "J, we never fight." I'm like, how long have you been together? I don't know anyone who never fights. I get that no one has to get to like the heights of fights. So I get that. I get that. It doesn't have to be a heated fight. But I don't know anyone who doesn't disagree. There you go. Right? Right. I think that's important for people to understand. Because yes, you have some individuals out there that'll say arguing is normal, it's healthy. And to me it's like, listen, if we're talking about arguing where we're now crossing disrespectful lines, negative lines, the way that we, the tone we take with each other, all these things, that's not healthy. Yes, it may happen. You should be prepared for that. But it does, let's not normalize it. Yes. And we're just going to keep doing this and it's what it is. That you're right to be with each other long enough and never have a disagreement. That's extremely rare, okay? Extremely rare. And I do think that again, as you mentioned, we have to be ready for those moments. We have to understand and going back to how we find that balance, especially as men and even for women, it's recognizing. So for example, if my partner is in a very heated moment, let's say she's in her masculine right now. All right, she's getting her up. Well meeting her with more masculine is probably going to only make things worse. Yeah. This is the time for me to be compassionate. Go to her, hold her, calm her down, bring her peace in that moment. You see, because we need to balance each other out. Same thing on the flip side. If I'm all heated and I'm, I'm extra passionate and then my woman now comes with that same energy, that's it. Now with button hands. This is her moment to say no, let me now be the one to soften the moment up, bring that sweetness in there and everybody calms down. So it's, it's learning how to feed off of each other and recognize, okay, they're over here. Let me bring it back over here. And now we can work from that point and we're both good. The problem is that we all see compassion and sweetness and kindness in those moments as a weakness. We don't want to be that person because we see that as losing. We see that as giving in. We see that as us losing our power and strength in a relationship. If we become the comforter or if we become the carer, right? Like that's, that's a perception. That is the perception. And we have to change that. That is the power position. So who is more powerful? The person that lets the energy dictate them, how they're going to react or the person that brings the energy and dictates how they're going to make this situation play out. So if I'm coming in to calm it down and being all sweet because I'm trying to bring peace here, I'm in the power position. I'm not losing anything. I'm going to gain more peace and happiness and harmony if I succeed in what I'm trying to do. So we have to get out of that mindset of this makes us weaker. And that is the big key of it. That's a big problem that for a lot of women who struggle with their feminine energy, that's a big issue where they feel that being feminine is weakness. It's what got them taken advantage of and got them hurt. But I always say it's not the feminine energy that's the problem. It's who you give it to. Do they respect it? Do they honor it? You know, it's the same thing as a man. Does she respect your masculine? If she doesn't, then that might just be a sign you're with the wrong person. But don't stop being that guy because the woman who's best for you is going to need that in those moments. But that's exactly what it is is that when people have been their best selves for the wrong person, that person brings out the worst in them. Yes. Right? Like when someone's been their best loving kind of self, but someone took advantage of it, that person now thinks next time, I've got to be aggressive. I've got to be, you know, powerful. I've got to be strong in this way. And I feel like that's kind of what most people are dealing with. We know that is that you're just dealing with a wounded version of someone. Yes. But I think people struggle to trust again and again, especially when they see the same patterns in the person they're with. And I guess the question is, why do we keep making the same mistake? Because I feel like a lot of us keep dating the same people. And there's a part of us that also just keeps closing off or being more wounded. It's almost like if you cut yourself, you now walk around with your hand over that cuck, you don't want to get cut again. And then if you lead it off and it gets cut even deeper, now you're even more conscious of that. And so I find that people are doing that where they're closing their heart more and more because it's been so misused and abused. And I understand that. I understand people don't want to be abused and misused. But I guess the question is how do people find people that they know respect them so that they can be their best version or be a better version of themselves? So you can't drive out darkness with more darkness. You can't expose someone who's going to hurt you by being someone who's closed off and holding back yourself. We act as kind of what we were just talking about. We have to look at being vulnerable, loving and open as not just why I'm setting myself up to be hurt. No, it's how you expose people faster. If I come with that energy and you cannot respect it, match it, then I know you don't belong here. But if I hold back, I give you a free pass to hold back. So now we have two individuals who are hiding behind their walls because it's comfortable there, but you can't really see what do we really have in front of us. Those walls are blinding you and you can't properly evaluate the situation. So one, we got to get to a place of healing from our past so that we're not just walking around with the hand over the cut. No, you got to let the cut breathe. You got to let it heal. Holding up, put your hand on there is delaying the process. And like you said, all that's going to happen is when you finally take your hand off, but you're taking it off with the wrong person and you haven't learned. See, what I want people to realize is your actions weren't the problem, meaning you being loving, sweet, kind, compassionate wasn't the problem. It was the person.

This is how you test the compatibility you have with your partner (43:23)

Separate those two things that you don't stop doing the good things. Now granted, are there levels to this to where we have to learn again? If I'm thinking about a man, if you got so deeply emotional to where you kind of lost your mask and energy and you became very needy, okay, you can say, all right, I need to continue to be loving, but I know I have to learn how to draw a line. I have to learn not to cross that moment. And again, you only crossed it because you were unhealthy to begin with. You only crossed it because you were afraid to begin with. Once you get to that place where you're healthy and confident, you won't find yourself crossing that line anymore. You won't tolerate certain things anymore. So we have to heal, we have to be confident, and we have to let our light shine so that we can expose what's in front of us easier. That's a brilliant answer. I love the differentiation between how sharing your light is not the problem, the person's the problem because we, yeah, we start to doubt whether being a good person, a loving person is actually what wins in the world. And the truth is that it does win, but it has to win with someone who can receive it and hold that space with you and share that space with you. And I find that a lot of people keep giving that energy to the wrong person because we feel we can make them better, right? Like there's this feeling of like, I can change this person. I can make them better. I can heal them. There's some of us want to fix people. And that means we assume the person we're with is broken. And I think this is such a subconscious thing. Like if you're always critiquing, if you're always picking at stuff with your partner, chances are you don't think they're great. Like just like you think there's some issues with them when you think that you can fix them and they're broken. Tell us about that angle where now we're almost, we've talked about being the loving and kind person, but sometimes we're being the person that thinks we're loving and kind because we want to improve someone, but that person doesn't want to improve. One big problem is that what's really driving people to pick that individual is that by being the one that can upgrade you, improve you, I have more value here. By having more value, I have a false sense of security. You have to appreciate me. You're less lucky to walk away, you're less lucky to cheat because you're lucky to have me. I feel like I'm the prize here. But those situations never really work because again, you're choosing someone that is not capable of pouring into you the way that you need. You're basing this off of what you could do for them. And that's not sustainable. And you're choosing them because again, you have more emotional control here. What happens to so many people and especially women, it's something that I call the unhealthy love cycle of women where women in their first love experience outside of any childhood trauma may have experienced. They're their most loving. They're just out there. They go all the way in. But that typically happens at a younger age at an age where men are not mature enough to handle those kind of emotions, that level of commitment, so on and so forth. So she gets hurt.

Learn about the unhealthy love cycle that often causes relationships to fail (46:42)

And as she gets hurt, her moment is saying to herself, I will never let this happen to me again. So now the woman starts to consciously or subconsciously choose men who are, I don't want to say lower than her, but essentially a man who does not take her there. He's good enough to be with, but I'm not that vulnerable with him. He can't hurt me like that first love hurt me. And so that dynamic usually leads to picking that person I can fix. I can make better who will appreciate and respect me. But again, it doesn't work out. And many times you'll see the same situations. The guy will move on to cheat on her, not because, and I have to say this because some women think, yeah, he's just being a man. No, not because he's a man, but because you chose a man that you could never be the woman that he needed and he can never be the man that you needed. Once he kind of either gets what he needs from you to build himself up or the smoke clears from him being infatuated with you. He starts to realize I'm not getting everything that I desire. And now you building him up has brought him more attention from other women. So now the, the difference between what you're not giving him and what someone else is willing to give him becomes way clearer now. The temptation gets way stronger and he ends up doing something or she ends up cheating as well because he's safe, but he doesn't fulfill her. He doesn't satisfy her. He doesn't excite her in any kind of way. And that's why I always said earlier, like the safe choice is almost always the wrong choice, but that is a function of people trying to choose these fixer uppers because they think it's going to give them some leverage there. It's leverage. Yeah, it's leverage. Yeah. How do you know when it's time to go? Like, how do you know when it's like, I feel like this is a common question where it's like, how do you know when it's just, I've tried everything. We've tried together, tried our best. Maybe we went to therapy. Maybe we got a coach or maybe, you know, maybe we didn't do the, you know, we didn't do those things. How do I just know that I feel like I need to go, but I'm scared of being alone. Yeah. I'm scared of dealing with the reality that I put in a lot of energy. And I feel like you said this earlier, but a lot of people stay in something for a lot longer than they should because they'd rather not be alone. They'd rather not face reality. They'd rather not lose two years of their life. They'd rather lose two more thinking that this, this should stay like, how do you know when it's time to go? Let me first say this. I think, I think society needs to change their thinking as far as letting go doesn't always mean it can't work out later. It's just that it cannot work out under these circumstances. All right. Because some people say, well, I feel like they're the one. Okay. Maybe they are, but maybe the time is not right. And it's letting go that will allow you both to do what needs to be done in your own personal lives that would allow you to come back together and have something way more amazing. So that's number one thing to consider. But outside of that, it's when one, if that person is unwilling to put in the work necessary, it's time to go. There's like so many times I'll, I'll have a video go up about communication and someone will comment saying, I've tried talking to him and he doesn't want to talk to me. And in my head, I'm like, but why are you still with them? If he refuses to talk to you, you already tried, there's nothing else to do. But people will let it linger on and continue why they consistently complain or unhappy about this specific issue. It's not going to magically get better. They're not going to just change it just because all of a sudden they see, oh, it needs to change. No, if they're fighting it now, they have no reason to change it. And what people have to understand, you know, especially with this whole trying to fix people up. Healing and facing your traumas is one of the hardest things for people to do. So if they already have you in their life, they're essentially getting the incentive or the benefit of relationship without having to do the deeper work. It's almost like if I'm at a job and the job says you need to have a master's degree to work here, but we're going to hire you anyway and give you time to get that master's degree. If getting that degree is super hard to you, you're going to drag that out as long as possible. You may never get the degree. Until they fire you. When they fire you and you realize, oh my gosh, if I don't do this, I'll never get this person back. I'll never get this opportunity back. Now they might go and get it because it's very tough to walk down the path of the healing process. So if they're not willing to work on it, you guys have already discussed it. And I think that's a big thing because there's a lot of relationships that end and the couples don't even know what the real issue was. Because the communication, they'll say, well, we talked about, no, you guys argued. You guys lashed out. There wasn't a clear communication as to what the problem was, what is expected? How do we go about this? If you've done that and I believe one of the most effective ways to do that is to do a letter. Because I feel like verbal communication of deep issues and concerns, they typically don't go well. You know, people get distracted. They forget what they want to say. The other person gets defensive. They're not, they're listening to a rebuttal not to understand. But when there's a letter involved, it gives you time to get everything out. You can evaluate your tone, leave no stone unturned. And now they have an opportunity to process it on their time to really take it in. And then you guys can come together and discuss the letter. And now it's so much easier to stay on point and get everything covered. If we've done that and they're still unwilling or there's still no progress, it's time to go. Yeah, that's great. That's great advice. And I, for me, that's the biggest one. It's like, you can't make something last if only one person's working on it. You can't keep hoping and waiting and wishing. And like you said, that ending doesn't mean forever. And often I've found that two people need to grow individually to be able to grow collectively. And we're forcing growing together so hard, but we need space to grow. And if you can't grow together, chances are you need to grow apart in order to see whether you grow together again or grow for someone else. And all of those options are okay, but we put so much pressure on people to grow together that they grow apart. And actually, if they chose to grow apart and grow separately, they could come back together if they learn the lessons. And I think that's a mistake too, that sometimes people think, I'm going to go learn this lesson for this person. I mean, a lot of people are like, okay, they broke up with me because I wasn't XYZ. Now I'm going to go become XYZ to win them back. And I always find them just like, well, no, you should go become XYZ if you think you are missing XYZ, but not to win them back because you don't know what they're going to do. What's your take on people to run a win people back? So I 100% agree with you. Like, if we're trying to learn or grow, it needs to be for the benefit of who we are and just whoever we deal with. So it's almost like if I was a bad communicator in this relationship, I shouldn't learn to better communicate for that person. I need to better communicate for whoever I'm going to be with. If you can't see it in that light, then maybe you're looking at the wrong thing. My thing is this, I think it all depends on what the details of the situation was, what led to the breakup, what were you overlooking, what was missing, are these fixable issues? Because a lot of people are trying to win back someone where the issues are not resolved. So it's like, what's the point of going back? We're just going to go in the same cycle all over again. They're letting this idea of I missed them. I don't want to be without them, blind them from the fact that you two did not get along well, or you two don't want the same things, or you two just whatever it is. Maybe there's a lack of sexual satisfaction on the why I felt the need to mention that, but that's what happens a lot of times. You have to stay focused on what led to the end and can this be corrected? If it can, cool. But as you mentioned, correcting it does not guarantee you they're coming back. And even if they will come back, you don't know when.

Aim to become the best you and you start to attract the right person (55:14)

They may need, so you may have figured yourself out in six months, they might need a year. And I would argue if you guys are truly meant for each other and they need a year, you need a year too. You're just overlooking some things and you're rushing the process because you want to get back to them. I've never found a situation where it was truly only one person who had problems and the other person was squeaky clean. No, no, no, no, you thought you were. But you have some stuff too, you needed the correct. Of course. So I think we have to be honest with ourselves and just keep striving to be better. And rather than focus on winning them back, just become the best you because if you do, and there's a true connection there, the opportunity will present itself again and you two will be able to make something of it. And the struggle is that when people finally make that decision to break up or let go, the studies show that the parts of your brain that are activated in a breakup are the same as detoxing from cocaine, right? Like you're literally trying to detox so you can have a craving for someone that's bad for you. Yeah. Also, it says that the areas of the brain that are activated in a breakup are the areas that are the same with physical pain. So if someone like punching the stomach, the reason why we say like my hot food is broken is because it literally feels like something's broken. Yeah. So when you're going through a breakup, when you're feeling the craving to be with that person again, studies show that over 80% of people are looking at what their exes are doing on social media, right? You throw a Finster account or whatever, but you have to know what are some of the healthiest tips that you've given to people and the people that you've worked with that have genuinely helped people move through a breakup. The first thing is to ask yourself again, why was I even there? Why am I holding on to this individual? Again, I think sometimes we get so blinded by just the experience or our desire to have this person for every reason that we overlook what was really missing or why this could not work anyway. What you'll also find is, and I'm sure there's probably a study on it where if you, if they broke up with you, you ever see a situation, it happens on TV a lot where the person could be like, okay, I'm going to break up with my partner. They're planning on it. They've been practicing in their head, right? It took them a couple of weeks to muster up the strain. They're about to do it and then the partner breaks up with them. Yeah. Now it's, oh my gosh, I got to get them back. Yeah. I forgot this whole time, that was your plan. Yeah. It just gave you the past to do it, but now because we don't like to be the one being let go of, now we're fighting hard to get it back. Yeah. Wow. So we have to really not fall into these little traps that happen to us as human beings, our brains is playing tricks on us or something where we confuse these emotions for, oh my gosh, I much really love them. Or even like you said, you go into that detox and because you miss, I always tell people, no matter how bad the relationship was, there's always good moments. So if you're trying to break free, you can't just let your brain focus on the good moments.

Personal Healing Process

Focus on the healing from everything that you’ve been through, not just from your breakup (58:16)

You have to remind yourself why this doesn't work. But if you keep focusing on the good, you start to make yourself think, oh, because I missed this good moment, I must miss them. And as this quote that says, sometimes you're not missing the person, you're missing the feeling. So you've got to be able to differentiate those two things. So getting back to how we get over these breakups is recognizing why were we really there to begin with? You know, could this actually work? The next thing is, you know, I'm a huge believer that a lot of times a breakup is a blessing in disguise. Even if there is a chance that you two can work together or this is the one for you, you may have needed this time to reevaluate and get things in order. Something is obviously wrong. Even if you, it may be something as deep as, because I've seen situations where everything was going amazingly well on the surface and the person broke up with them. Let's say the woman, let's go out of the man. So to the man, that's really confusing. But what it was is that that woman, she had not healed from her past relationships. And this relationship being so good was scaring her. And what happens is the better you are, the scarier it becomes for her. She's looking for something to be wrong. She has to validate her fear somehow. When she can't find it, she'll either sabotage the relationship or she'll run from it. So to that man, it may seem like this is so unfair, which yeah, it sucks. But if this woman didn't break up with you now, you were inevitably going to face this same ending, but at a worse time. All right. This is still best that it's happening now. At least if she can go do what she needs to do, there's a chance for this to come back around later. But it's hard for us to see it in the moment. So I think just really, we also have to focus on our healing. Whenever a breakup happens, the mistake we make is that we think it's about healing from the breakup. No, it's healing from everything you've been through. You've probably been sleeping under the rug, your childhood trauma for years, maybe the last two, three relationships, whatever it is. So and not healing from those things is contributing to your struggle to get past this breakup. And contributing to why you even chose this person to begin with. I'm a huge believer that if you haven't healed, you are 90% likely to choose the wrong person. Yeah. It's just too difficult to pick that person that you truly love and can truly love you and accept that level of vulnerability when you have still not resolved your past traumas and past hurts. Yeah. So to me, that's the next big thing is just focus on your healing process because in that process, you will also be able to see more clearly if this is really for you or not. Like walking around unhealed is like walking around with broken glasses. You can't see straight, no matter how hard you try, but healing will clear up your vision really, really fast. And now it'll be like, oh, wait a minute. I didn't belong there. Yeah. You know, thank God the breakup happened. You know, now I'm in a better place. I move forward. To me, I think, and I would say in addition to those things, it's just having accountability partner. Whether that's friend, coach, therapist, someone that can help keep you in check, help remind you what you need to do, someone that you know you have to talk to and update what's going on so that you feel like, okay, I don't want to come back to them saying I'm doing the same thing over and over again. It doesn't guarantee success, but it helps. It helps move the needle some. So I would highly encourage that. That one mindset you spoke about that changes everything and it hit me today. I was just thinking, if we were just able in a moment to recognize that something painful now was going to be good for us in five years time, that would change so many things in our life. Yes. But we're so poor at dealing with current pain. Even if it means future joy, that we just can't accept that I have to go through this in everything, right? Knowing that someone breaking up with you just saved you 10 years of a wasted life is so much more than knowing you're going to have to go through a few months of pain and 10 months of pain, maybe it's a bit longer, maybe it's two, three years. But we just have to get our head around that. Sometimes the best things that happen to you are protecting more of your life than the pain that they're causing. You need the peace of knowing I did what I needed to do. That's it. Yeah. Because anytime you feel like, well, maybe I could have done this, but I could have done that leaves the door open for doubts. Do it. Well, exactly. So it's like, and that's why I'm such a big believer in, you know, there's people who say, well, once they're done, they're done, they'll just move on. And I'm like, no, no, no, express yourself. And everything off your chest because you don't need anything to linger and you questioning, well, what if I did this different? No, speak your full piece. And now you can say, all right, I did what I had to do. It is what it is. I move forward. And I mean, it makes it easier. It may not make it 100%, you know, not an issue whatsoever, but it's going to be easier. And also, also for me, that's why, like, my relationship with God is so important because that's where I find my peace in dealing with a situation that doesn't work out the way I want to. I always tell myself, okay, if this isn't working out, God has something better for me. You know, if this is happening right now, there's a purpose because I know if I followed his guidance throughout this process, there's no need for me to question why is this the current outcome. There's a reason for this. And I've been through these things enough times to see, as you mentioned, the reward is going to come. It may come next week, it may come years from now, it will come. And I'll be able to see how it all connected. Yeah, Stefan, it's been incredible talking to you, man. This has been such a great back-to-back, flowing conversation. We end every on purpose episode with a final five, which is like a rapid fire, which means every question has to be answered with one word to one sentence maximum. Okay. So here are your final five. The first question is, what's the best relationship advice you've ever received or heard or given? It is to love fully, love fully and be yourself. Because as I said earlier, that's how you will expose quicker who is for you and who isn't for you. Second question, what is the worst relationship advice you've ever heard or received? Get under someone to get over someone. Doesn't work. It's going to cause more problems. Question number three, how would you define your current purpose in life? Is to serve the people and help heal hearts and help individuals experience happier, healthier relationships? Question number four, what's something that you used to think was important in relationships, romantic relationships, but you no longer think is important? I don't know if I would say it's what I thought it was that important, but I do think I can talk about it now, is the woman's financial position, where I think once upon a time, I may have put more weight on that when I was a lot younger and really because that's what society and family told me was important, but now to me, and I can say it because I'm successful, that financial position is not what's important to me. It's the love, it's the environment, the household, all these things.

Final Thoughts With Stephan

Stephan on Final Five (01:05:42)

Of course, I want her to pursue her purpose and her passion, but what she has financially doesn't move the needle at all. Got it. All right. And then fifth, and thank you for opening up a chair in that. Fifth and final question, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? The one that's coming to mind is you must be honest. If we eliminated lying in deceit, oh my God, like this world would be so much better. So just you have to tell the truth. Yeah, that would be an amazing one. Yeah. Stefan, it's been amazing speaking you today. I hope you come back on the show many times. The book is out now. It's called Love After Heartbreak. I'm sure each and every one of you can relate to having gone through heartbreak. This is the book to have to find that love within yourself again, to make sure you can love others, make sure you grow and grab a copy of the book. We're going to put the link in the show notes so you can go and order the book. I highly recommend it. Please make sure you follow Stefan on YouTube on Instagram, on TikTok, on all the social media platforms. Please do tag me and him on the platforms you use with the insights that stood out to you, the words of wisdom that he said that are going to stay with you and the ones that you're bringing into your heart and life and the ones you're sharing with your friends. I hope you'll pass this episode on to someone who needs it. If you know someone who's going through a tough time through a breakup, if you know someone who's single right now and needs to do some more healing, or if you have a friend in your life who's in a relationship but struggling, this is the episode to send to them. Stefan, thank you so much for your time and energy. Thank you for having me. So grateful to you. It's been a pleasure. Pleasure to all mine. If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr. Gabo Maté on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.