This Works Like Magic! - If You FEEL LOST In Life, Watch This To FIND YOURSELF! | Joe Dispenza | Transcription
Transcription for the video titled "This Works Like Magic! - If You FEEL LOST In Life, Watch This To FIND YOURSELF! | Joe Dispenza".
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If you can't feel gratitude, if you can't feel love, I just want to know what you've been practicing feeling every day. Because that feeling that you're practicing is what you're always feeling. Now, let's practice feeling something else in the beginning. It's not going to be easy. One of the ways that we find our audience struggles is deducing the energy of the people around you and the energy that you attract into your life and the people that you keep. Often, like you said, there are people coming to your seminars that are dragging their partners. And they have to drag their partners there because their partners are not understanding it initially. Where is that? Is there a method for people to start deducing the energy of people they meet and connect with to be aware if they're on the same frequency or on the same path? Well, I don't know if there's a machine that does that. But once again, I think that if we share the same experiences, because we like the same things, we share the same emotions. And if we share the same experiences, we share the same emotions, I can relate to you so we can exchange ideas and information. And if we share the same energy, energy is information.
Exploring Consciousness And Self-Connection
Awakening to Reciprocal Vibrations Plays Kind & Life & others (01:04)
So many people, as an example, they use each other to reaffirm their dependency on suffering. So I suffer more than you, than you say, I suffer more than you. We have this thing, we just complain with each other. Well, that's the same resonance, the same frequency. And there's a match, right? But it goes to the same means if you're someone who has an accountability partner that you exchange ideas like this with, and it's a different frequency and different energy. So when energy comes together and it's constructive, something comes out of it. You feel it, right? And you feel an elevation. If there's dissonance, then your sensing meter is how you feel about that person, many times in your gut or in your heart or wherever.
How Cavities Creates Housework With Insertion & Emotion (01:50)
And there's deconstit... there's a destructive interference and there's no energy involved. So I think that's just a practice, but really the ultimate mastery is to be able to be in such resonance, such coherence, that when you walk in the room that you raise everybody's energy and you don't let your energy drop because of any circumstance or any condition. And that would be greater than your environment, right?
Destiny vs Control & Love Take Charge & Reveal The Love Is In You & No One Else (02:21)
And that's the model that we use. So imagine 1500 people in an event where everybody's getting super coherent and the interference that's going on in the room is creating these high amplitudes. Now we've measured that in the room and the energy in the room is off the chart many times. I mean, there's energy for healing in there. There's energy for all kinds of things that can happen. So we brought it to life with our awareness. And so the more elevated the emotion, love, gratitude, freedom, bliss, ecstasy, the higher the frequency. So, but it turns out you can have a collective group of people with a lot of energy and be incoherent and it creates entropy. You can have a smaller group of people that are highly coherent and put out a very big signal. So when we see a collective really get coherent, wow, the energy in the room opens up doors of possibilities that I would never expect. I mean, I don't know how to explain some of the phenomenological things that happen, but that's everybody's divine. Like everybody's in that state. They're in that elevated state. So I think our truth meter is really whether we feel it lifted or we feel like we've been robbed. - Yeah, yeah. And often our feeling of feeling lifted is based on everything we've just talked about. It's based on a void, based on an unhealed trauma, based on a gap or a part of ourselves that we haven't yet broken a belief. And so often feeling lifted is not feeling lifted in the way you're saying. It's feeling lifted in the just the external superficial sense again. - Reaffirming the emotion you need. - Just as you said earlier at the beginning that an external event could make you feel sad. - The external event is making you feel good, but it's still external. - Exactly.
Heart Our Its Gifting Brain States & Whole (04:18)
- The opposite. - Right, so then that means then when things are good, you feel good. When things are bad, you feel bad. So there's dramatic contrast and polarity. And this is the realm of polarity, right? So how do you find the middle path? Well, the heart is the middle path. It's a union of polarity. It's a union of opposites. It's oneness, it's wholeness. And this is where we have to begin to create from. All of this down here is all humanity. This is all our animal nature. We get up and hear things change, right? You go from selfish to selfless. And something else happens. So it's really funny too, because when a lot of people come and they say, "I don't know, I'm having difficulty opening my heart. I'm practicing, but I'm not feeling anything yet." And then it comes time to do our healings on other people. And the moment you, it was no longer about you, all of a sudden something happened. Well, of course, that's what the heart is about, right? So it comes in ways that we least expect at times. Yeah, I love that you've incorporated that element of people having that experience. And often most people can't open their heart to others because they haven't even opened their heart to themselves. Right? They haven't been through that process of-- Sitting long enough to let the heart, I mean, I always say to people, when was the last time you sat with your heart and just worked with it? Like, so that it's not contracted and afraid and protected. It takes practice to do that. And so we work with people in letting them, we give them numerous opportunities to practice this over and over and over again. And sooner or later, pedal by pedal, it starts to bloom and all of a sudden there's an authentic smile on their face. And once energy meets the heart, it goes right to the brain. We did this study where we hooked up an electrocardiogram to an electroencephalogram. And an electroencephalogram is a brain mapping machine. So we measure 19 or 26 different compartments and we're looking to see all different kind of activity in the brain. But we measured the heart along with it. And when the heart starts beating coherently in a sense of order, like taking a big sheet, Jay, and going like that, the heart sends a wave right up to the brain and the brain goes into these beautiful states of alpha. The heart is telling the brain, it's safe to create again. It's safe to imagine. It's safe to dream of a new future. And there's the stroke volume of the heart in order. And then you see these two or three seconds of beautiful coherent alpha. The brain is in, it's in that creative state. Then there's a pause and it happens again. And it's beauty. It's a symphony. If you don't have that mechanism, you can have all the intention in the world, but there's no carrier wave. I mean, people, when they make energy reach their heart, there's an external field that's created. It's magnetic. It's measurable. And that energy is frequency.
Our Similar Its Carrier (07:18)
And if that frequency is coherent, it can carry the intent or thought on a coherent brain of that future. The energy of suffering cannot carry the thought of health or wealth. It's not consistent with it. It carries a different set of thoughts.
When You Should Start Feeling Gratitude (07:33)
So then the training then is getting people into those hard states because once they start trading that fear or that pain or that frustration or trying or whatever forcing control for gratitude, and they just let all that go. And I say to them, listen, if you can't feel gratitude, if you can't feel love, I just wanna know what you've been practicing feeling every day. 'Cause that feeling that you're practicing is what you're always feeling. Now let's practice feeling something else in the beginning. It's not gonna be easy, but you gotta keep following the formula. Keep doing it, keep doing it, keep doing it. Well, when they start feeling gratitude, it's very interesting because the emotional signature of gratitude is that something wonderful just happened to you. Something favorable is happening to you, right? So you've just received something or you're receiving something, you say thank you. So gratitude is the ultimate state of receiving emotionally. So when you move into a state of gratitude and you open your heart, you will accept, believe, and surrender to the thoughts equal to that emotional state and you'll program your autonomic nervous system into a different destiny. You could say, I'm healthy, I'm healthy, I'm healthy, I'm wealthy, I'm wealthy, I'm wealthy, I'm wealthy, I'm free, I'm free, I'm free, and your body is conditioned in the misery. And it's saying, no, you're not. And that thought stops right at the brainstem. It never makes it to the body because the body is on a different program. So then while the person starts trading down and they start opening their heart, well, their immune system gets stronger by 50%. 50% in three days, they start making immunoglobulins. Their body's natural defense against viruses and bacteria, 50%, not a little bit, a lot. That's one study. And so trading that, telling the body, it's in the environment where it already happened. And so that's when the miracles start happening. That's when people say, I'm not doing anything. Well, of course you're not. You don't have to. So then last point about this, because it's so important that people understand that most people are creating matter to matter. So the more you live by the hormones of stress, the more altered you are inside of you, the rush of those adrenal chemicals narrows your focus. The senses are heightened, we become materialists.
The Matter-Matter Spirit - The Entirety Concept (09:54)
And now all of our attention is on our bodies, on our environment, and on time. And now we're lost in the VR machine of three-dimensional reality. Everything appears as separate. So I'm here and you're there, and there's space and time between us. Then there's me here and there's my dreams. I place them way out there in the future. Why do I place them out there? 'Cause I'm estimating how much I have to work to get that house, to get that car, how much I have to save, how much overtime I have to work, what things do I have to do, how do I have to cheat, rob, steal, lie, whatever I have to do to get it, right? That's matter trying to change matter. And so when it doesn't happen, we feel more separation. We try harder, we force, we pray, we control all that stuff. So then creating from the field instead of from matter means that you have to take all of your attention off your body, all of your attention off all the people in your life, all your attention off all the objects and things, all the places, and even time itself, and become nobody, no one, no thing, nowhere, no time. And if you're not any of those things, what are you? Your consciousness. And now you are liberated from the rules of three dimensional reality where everything takes time and energy to get what you want. Now when we create from the field instead of from matter, because it's not matter that's emitting the field, it's actually the field that's creating matter. Change the field, you change matter, right? Now this is not something you take one bite of and you get, it's something you gotta really practice. So then by doing this properly with a coherent brain and a coherent heart, you got a wifi signal. And if you're creating from the field instead of from matter, you no longer have to go anywhere to get what you want. If you were connected to that invisible field of energy called the unified field, the quantum field, which connects everything physical and material, and you're aware of it and you're connected to it, you're connected to source, why would you, if you were source, why would you go get anything?
When youre aware (11:35)
You draw it to you. So the thought, coherent brain is the intent, it's the electrical charge, the elevated, the motion, the heart has a magnetic signature. It's the magnetic charge. The thought sending the signal out, it's a directive. The feelings drawing the event back, create that combination. And now you're gonna collapse space and time and you're gonna draw those synchronicities to you. Now I'm here in this lifetime, I'm clear that I wanna master that. I wanna get good at that because I did the other stuff. You can get successful the other way, but you're too tired, it takes too much energy. I would rather synchronize my energy to synchronicities in my life and be mystified by, wow, this stuff really works. And every synchronicity that happens that catches you off-guard and brings you joy and awe and wonder, you're gonna use that energy to create the next one and it gets weird. I've had some crazy synchronicities in the last three days. I'm laughing while I'm driving going, oh my God, this life is so incredibly mysterious. What an amazing ride this is. That's a different perspective when you're not synchronizing. You ask the person, was it worth it? You showed up every day, was it worth it? Absolutely. So when it starts happening and you start seeing those, you see feedback in your world. You're gonna pay attention to what you did and you're gonna do it again and you're gonna be like, okay, I've done this, I've done this and I've this. People who heal themselves have very little difficulty healing someone else. It's just the next step. And then with COVID and we couldn't do the healings in our events, we had students just get together and say, if we're in the quantum, okay, and everything's connected, do I really need to be there? I just need a target. Give me the face, give me the coordinate. Love transcends space and time, okay? Give me that coordinate, I'll love that person in the life. And these people do it. And we have reputable universities now that are studying this phenomena. And they're saying, they're telling me, these are universities that have some of the most advanced laboratories. This is, I'm talking to Nobel Prize researchers. They wanna change the conversation in medicine. And today I got a video of somebody being healed remotely. And she's laying there, her cancer went from really bad to nothing. And she videotapes herself when the group works on her. She is laying there and her body is moving all over that floor. It's twisting and turning. There's energy manipulating that body. They're changing the pattern in the field. They don't need, the body is the illusion, the tumor is the illusion, that's the hologram. Change the pattern in the field, you change the projection in three dimensional realm. Our person who's healed themselves and been in a circle where they've healed someone else.
Using quantum connections to heal (14:36)
And then when you do that, what's next? I don't know. You won't know until you have that experience. I've sat in on the groups where they get together on the Zooms and five people that they've healed tell their story. You know, a mother whose daughter is unresponsive with an injury or a handicap from birth, who's now looking at her brothers, who's trying to talk, who's smiling, who's present. The mother's telling the story. There's 40 people on the Zoom who are all crying. Not crying for any other reason, but the species is helping. The living organism called the human being is healing one another. They're informing one another, taking care of one. Something innate is awakening us. We're crying. The experience of that produces an emotion that's different than any other emotion you could ever feel. That's a new experience. Do you think that that person who goes to heal the next person is going to have a problem opening their heart after that, they know what the payoff is. And so they don't contract, oh my God, that person has a coma. You know how many people have come out of comas because of this healing group? They're spot on, they can hit a target. And they lay their energy over that field and another one over there and another one over and all of a sudden you get these complex, coherent patterns and it's creating a change in matter. And they figured it out. And we have universities that are, we're collecting all the data and they're crunching all the algorithms. We know that it works really well for anxiety. It works really well for insomnia, for neurological disorders, Parkinson's disease, inflammation, we're capturing that pain. Huge changes in pain. And they're on the other side of the planet. And we're synchronizing, we're measuring heart rate variability and we're sending electrodes and sensors to the people that are being healed and we're seeing if there's a correlation between the coherence of the group that's doing it and the coherence of the person who's having the experience.
Why Dr. Joe uses coherence to measure the truth of healings (16:25)
And we're measuring DNA before the healing and three days of healing measure the DNA after. Why? Because evidence is allowed as voice. You see that, it's the four minute mile. But you can't go back to being the same person. I scratch my head sometimes when I'm standing on the stage and there's someone speaking to the audience who has had a very serious health condition and they don't look like a vegan and they don't look gluten free and they don't look young and they don't look buffed and they don't look like they're in shape. They just look like a normal person that has struggled with a health condition and they're telling the truth. They, you are witnessing the truth. They are the example of truth. In other words, they have the scans, they have the blood tests, it's gone. And I'm looking out in the audience, Jay, and everybody is leaning in. Nobody is moving, they are in awe of the four minute mile right in front of them. Somebody broke through, somebody pierced that veil, somebody broke out of that level of consciousness. And that story is filled with truth. Not my words, it's their words. They just showed up every day for themselves. They just kept showing up and believing in it and they became it, right? You ask that person, where's the disease? They'll tell you it's in the old person. I'm somebody, I'm not the same, it can't be there. The person in the audience who's relating to that person with the same rare genetic disorder, the same lupus, the same cancer, don't you know that their belief is gonna change right in front of them? And instead of taking two years to do it, they do it in three months. Why? Because as soon as the four minute mile was broken, the next one that broke was two weeks later and there's been 1400 people have done it. I mean, it's not a thing anymore, right? So to me, that's, we have such compelling evidence in science with brain scans. You can make your brain work better. You can make your heart work better. You can make your immune system work better. You can make your cells go from really sick to really healthy. We've got great evidence. You could become immune to serious viruses. You can be immune to bacteria. We've got the measurements. You can lengthen your life. We have great evidence and the people aren't monks.
The Innate information that gives you the Trust To Find the Door Outside The Matrix (18:56)
They're not nuns. They're not religious scholars. They're just common people. And then we have testimony of people who are the example of truth. They are the example of truth. I would rather have dinner with those people than anybody else. They know something, right? So evidence then becomes the loudest voice, right? And that's what I think what people are looking for right now. The truth is so lost in sensationalism and the truth is so lost in emotional agreement. And so people who wanna feel fear, they program themselves and accept, believe, and surrender that people who wanna be hateful, it's all there. It's all there. And it's a matrix to find the way out, right? And I think there's a door. I just think that we have to trust the innate information that comes from within us. - Absolutely fascinating. And I can't wait to actually experience an event in reality. - I'm gonna invite you one more time and then I'm gonna send somebody over here in a car to pick you up and take you there. - Well, I think last time we wanted to do it and then the pandemic hit. So, you know, from last time, but no, I would love to. I can't wait to experience that and to experience it personally, not just to watch others, but to actually go through it myself too. But with all of that said, and seeing these breakthroughs, seeing these breakthrough patterns, you having transcendental experiences, what do you believe in this present state of ignorance, as you said, what do you believe is the purpose of life overall? - To figure out the purpose of life. - Okay. - I know, I mean, I really think it's, I think the mathematics that I've looked at says there's infinite experiences to have. You will never know the end. So then if you study any religion, I mean, I've looked at a lot of them. This concept of eternity, that the soul is gonna be around for eternity, that's a long time. And that means you gotta be okay with you for a very long time. So I think it's the creation of more experiences. And I think we came from source, from singularity, from oneness.
Asking The Question (21:07)
And we have descended down into density, a fooled by our senses into separation. And every single being has a spark of oneness of the divine within them. And we got so separate that we now have our own free will to answer the question, is there more? 'Cause if you're oneness, it gets kind of boring after a while, like, is there anything else? Well, the moment you ask if there's anything else, you're no longer oneness, you're something other than oneness, right? And you're a different consciousness, separate from oneness. So I think then we live life. And then when we can predict the feeling of everything that can happen in our life and it's boring and we're not impressed by anyone or anything, we ask the same question, is there more? And that's when the soul goes, all right, well, it's been, how many lifetimes you've been doing this? Okay, there's an awakening. And we ask that question, and then all of a sudden, we start getting information and books and stuff and meet people and it gets exciting. And it's how the universe works. And so we climb out of this. And I just think there's so many incredible experiences that are left in the unknown that we get to have. And then of course, when the journey's over and you evolve to that point, then you take that wisdom and you say, here's what I learned. And it was scary down there. And I was like, boy, I tell a great story. And then you hang out there and you go, is there anything else besides all? And then here we go again. It just never ends. I don't know, that's my theory. - That's a great answer. I loved it. I resonate deeply with many parts of that answer.
Final 5 Questions (22:45)
I think it's a really beautifully put way of thinking about it and bringing in that, like I said at the beginning, bringing in that spiritual, that science, and the experience of what it would actually look like to live for eternity. So it's a beautiful, beautiful answer. Dr. Joe, we end every episode with a final five. These are the fast five questions where the answers have to be one word to one sentence maximum. - Okay. - So this is-- - I don't remember this from last time, so this is good. - Yeah, and I'll probably break my rule with you because you give phenomenal answers. - No, I'll give, I'll do my best. - I'll try my best as well. - Me too. I'll try my best as well. Okay, so Dr. Joe, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever received? - How to show up for yourself. - What's the worst advice you've ever received? - Believe what people tell you. - What's something that you've said in the past that you were confident about it then, but now upon reflection, you're like, oh, I've changed my mind about that. - Oh, that it takes a long time to create reality. - Oh, I'm gonna ask you to explain that 'cause I like that answer. I wanna know more. That's fascinating. - Well, I think just like anything else, you learn how to snowboard, you go through that learning curve, you learn how to ride a bike, you go through that learning curve, that I used to think that creation was hard.
I just thought it took a lot of energy and it took a lot of sacrifice and it worked for it. - Great answer. - And God, I mean, even my definition of surrender today is very different than it was just three months ago because I'm always doing it. And so I think that it doesn't have to be that way. I just think that it could be any way you want and I'm working on that, changing that belief. - I love that. Beautiful answer. Thank you for sharing that. Question number four. What's one thing that you think people value but you don't? - Oh, other people's opinions. If I really cared what people thought, I would have stopped this a long time ago.
And now it's so great because I have so many researchers and physicians and everybody in the interest. - I'm very glad you didn't stop. And we are very happy you didn't stop. I think it's deeply meaningful work and the more time we spend together and the more time I hear where you want to take people and what you want people to experience is just beautiful. So thank you for what you're doing. - Thanks. - Fifth and final question. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Take care of one another.
Ego body or mind (25:17)
- Nice and simple. Beautiful. - Why do you think anonymity is so important for all of us in our life to experience? Why is it such a fascinating experience? - Because when you go past your ego identity, there's a bigger identity that is so huge. It's incomprehensible. It can't even be described. And there's a freedom and a joy that comes from that. And I had glimpses of that, but the spirit of intense stillness. And by the way, since then I've kept a week of silence every year, sometimes I do more. And that week of silence, usually in September I do, every year, just to go back to the taste of timeless being instead of our ego identity, which we keep polishing every day now, especially these days with social media and books and promotions and you name it. - What's something that people can do daily to access that experience? Because like you said, our days are just busy with work and family and commitments and events. What's something people can do daily that helps them access their true identity, their self, going beyond the ego and the mind and the body? - I think the basic of it is to still the mind as much as possible and just become a silent witness to that which is happening on the screen of your consciousness.
So if you close your eyes and take a few deep breaths, and then I usually start with a little reflection, who am I? Who wants to know the answer? What is it that wants to know the answer to the question, who am I? What is my purpose? What do I want for me and the world? What am I grateful for? That's how I start. Then I go into a little bit of breathing and then mantra meditation. And then what I do is I witness what's happening on the screen of my consciousness, just becoming aware.
These 4 Questions Will Create Self-Awareness (27:28)
And sooner or later you realize that what's happening on the screen of consciousness is not who you are. You're the one who's watching that. And then what's happening on the screen of your consciousness ultimately leads to deep insights about mind and body and the physical world, which actually doesn't really exist. But we can get into that when we talk about meta human. But I think if people just ask these four questions every day before they start the day, even without a prolonged meditation process, who am I? What do I want? What's my purpose? What am I grateful for? Suddenly the windows to the bigger reality start to open. - Absolutely. This is such a beautiful point that Deepak's making right now for everyone listening and watching. It's just such a simple way of starting to transcend the noise and the clutter that we feel every morning when we wake up and the first thing we do is look at our phones. All you have to do is just switch that habit for asking yourself these questions. - And you don't need to know the answers because there are no fixed answers. These answers keep changing. All you have to do is live the questions and then life keeps moving you into answers that you need at that moment in your life. - Absolutely. - And it all happens spontaneously, synchronicly. - Such a great point because these answers are revealed and received. They're not found. - And they're pertinent for that moment in your life, not necessarily the answers. - I love that. I think that's such a good point because so often we put this pressure when we ask a question that we must find the answer now. It's like the education system has drilled us to believing that you have the right or wrong answer within moments. - What was that poet who said, "Live the questions and life will move you to the answers when you need them because if you got them right now, you may not be even prepared for them." - Wow. Yeah, that's a good point. I know life has done that to me a lot of times. Yeah, when you ask questions and you think you want the answer now, but then when you actually receive it, you realize, yes, I wasn't prepared. - That's right. - Absolutely. Wow. What a profound way of thinking about it. I love that. That's made a huge shift in my mind, not even to want to answer the questions now. Just ask them and let your day-- - And let them go. They come in the form of insight, intuition, inspiration, creative, creativity, but most importantly, they come in the form of meaningful coincidences of what Carl Jung called synchronicity or what religious people say grace. - Yes. - That's it. - Yeah. Meaningful coincidences. Absolutely. Yeah. How beautifully said. I love that. So this is what I love about your journey, Deepak. It's just that at every point, it seems that you've been a seeker for more. Like you've continually gone in the direction of more learning, more growth, never settling. How have you seen the medical industry shift? How have you seen other things around you shift with time?
Mental Health And Genetics
About Mainstream Medicine, Integrative Health (30:34)
Because you've really gone all the way. Do you think that we are seeing shifts in the medical world? - Yeah, we are seeing shifts. When I started, I felt like a loner. - Yeah. I can imagine. - But now integrated medicine is part of every institution, including academia. And in the last 15, 20 years, our foundation has done a lot of research. So we've made it pretty mainstream right now. So to summarize very shortly, what has taken 30 years to learn or more, 40 years to learn, is that only 5% of disease-related gene mutations are fully penetrant. So let me explain this for those, for a lay audience. So a genetic mutation is a mistake. It's an error in the gene. Genes are stretches of DNA that code for proteins. So DNA stands for deoxyribonucleic acid. And there are four of these named after alphabets, adenine, guanine, cytosine, thymine, ATCG. So ATCG are the four letters of life. In English, we have 26 letters. And most languages, human languages, we have more than 20 letters, but the language of life DNA has only four letters, ATCG. And these spell out words that we call genes. And the body is a story spelled out by those genes. So when people say first there was the word, word was made into flesh, in a way it's very literal actually, when you start to look at the biological mechanism. Now once in a while, or more than once in a while, there are genetic mistakes. So you might think of them again, with speaking metaphorically, but a spelling mistake. So instead of the word being spelled correctly, maybe one of the letters ATCG is missing, or it's in the wrong place, or it's upside down, or you have redundant two letters instead of one, that mistake, genetic variation is called a mutation. Now only 5% of these genetic mutations that are associated with disease, cancer, heart disease, arthritis, strokes, you name it, autoimmune diseases, Alzheimer's, only 5% actually guarantee the disease. Which means if you have one of those mutations, you're going to get the disease.
How You Evolve Morally When Angels Spray Messages In Your Bedroom (33:11)
Like Angelina Jolie had a gene called the Baraka gene, which predicts breast cancer, 100%. So she had a mastectomy to prevent the cancer, rightly so. For those 5%, there are new technologies that are being developed right now, and CRISPR is one of them, which means you can cut and paste the gene the way you would in email. So you would take the defective gene, you'd read the barcode with the molecular scissors, you'd delete it, and then you'll insert the right gene. It's not happening right now, but it'll happen in the near future. But what people don't understand is that's 5% of illness. The rest, even the genetic mistakes that are associated with disease depends on how you live your life. And very simple things like sleep, meditation and stress management, movement, yoga and pranayam. Now yoga and pranayam goes way beyond exercise because with yoga and pranayam, there's a particular nerve in the body called the vagus nerve. It's the 10th nerve. And the word vagus is a Latin word, but it's related to the English word vagabond. So this nerve comes from the midbrain. It influences your facial expressions. So you can now do micro expressions and see if a person is happy or not. It influences the eye movements. It influences the tone of your voice. Are you threatened? Are you stressed? Are you friendly? Are you happy? It influences your heart rate activity. Then it pierces the diaphragm and it influences the activity of every other branch of the vagus nerve that goes to all the organs in the body. So when I discovered this through yoga teachers and masters, I realized that the yoga asanas, we say yoga asana. And people usually translate that into as postures. But actually the word asana means seat, as you know.
Seat of awareness, seat of consciousness (35:17)
Seat of awareness, seat of consciousness. So each yoga asana is a particular seat of consciousness that stimulates a particular nerve that is going to an organ in your body. And the only reason for that nerve is self-regulation or healing or homeostasis. So when I discovered that, it became fanatic about yoga. I haven't missed yoga now for as long as I can remember. - That's amazing. - Not one day. - Wow. - Not one day of yoga or meditation or pranayama. So it was a long time. So when you put together, you know, yoga, movement, sleep, stress management, healthy relationships and emotions like love, compassion, joy, equanimity, food that doesn't kill your microbiome, which is the two million extra genes in our body, which are not human. So you only have 25,000 human genes, but you have two million bacterial genes in your body. This is called the microbial microbiome. It is as important as the human genome. So you can change the activity of your microbial genes just by changing your diet. So if you go, not even vegan, but if you go maximum diversity on plant-based foods and foods that are not contaminated with antibiotics or hormones or insecticides, you can change your genetic activity and the population of your genes in less than six weeks.
You can change the activity of your microbial genes (36:30)
And which means then you're reinventing your body because your body is spelt out by your genes. So this got me going strongly into how do we reinvent our bodies by resurrecting our souls and going past our minds. And that's what I'm obsessed with now.
Genes change when the mind changes (37:10)
- Wow, I love that. I'm so glad you're obsessed with it because the fact that we are so responsible for our own wellbeing is huge in the sense of belief that there are ways in which we can rewrite that story. - You can rewrite the genetic structure of your body. You can't change the human genes, by the way, because you got them from your parents, but you can change their activity. So here's one of our researchers. We put people through a one week retreat where they not only learned mantra meditation, but they also practiced the yoga sutra as a patanjali from the chapter on the cities, particularly transcending the senses. In one week, literally, and this is published now in major peer review journals, if people wanna check them out, go to ChopraFoundation.org and you'll see all the research. And the research was in collaboration with scientists from Harvard, from UCSF, from Duke, from Scripps, of course, Chopra Foundation, Mount Sinai in New York.
Studies with the Chopra Foundation (38:03)
And what did we find? We found that in one week of this practice of meditation and the yoga sutras of patanjali, all the genes that are responsible for healing and self-regulation, they went up some 17 fold over baseline. These are human genes.
Perception Of Self And Reality
cellular regeneration (38:25)
And the genes that cause disease or inflammation went down drastically. The enzyme, there's an enzyme in our body called telomerase. It influences the length of telomeres, which are like little buttons at the end of your chromosomes. The level of the enzyme went up 40% in one week, which means people are reversing their biological age at a genetic level. - Wow. - Okay, now how far does this go? We don't know. - And that was just one week. - It's just one week. And the people who are in Samadhi for weeks at a time, those traditions are not that prevalent. There's a technique in Nair Veda called kayakalpa, where you go into a retreat, where it is totally dark, where you have no communication with the world, where you transcend, where you eat minimal maximum diversity of plant-based foods. And in six months, you come back a younger person, biologically, physiologically. You know, I'm 72 now. - I know, you're looking good. - I'm not focused on aging anymore. - Yeah. - I think that's a mistake. - For anyone who follows Deepak on social media, Instagram or Facebook, if you don't already, I highly recommend it. But I've never seen you miss a day of yoga meditation. I see every time when you inspire me so much, because I just think like, if you're able, at your current body's age, to be able to do the things you are with your body and how healthy you are and how healthy your body and mind are, I mean, we have no excuses. - There's biological age, which is the exact biomarkers. So what's blood pressure, bone density, body temperature regulation, fat content, cholesterol, vision, hearing, skin thickness, wrinkles, hormones, that's biological age. - Then there's chronological age when you were born, what your birth certificate says. Then there's psychological age, how do you feel? And then there's spiritual age, which is timeless, which has no age whatsoever. So, you know, we have to make these distinctions and see which of these we're talking about.
Perpetual youth (40:39)
- 100%, 100%. When you said at the end there that you're not thinking about aging anymore, what did you mean by that when you said that? - It's now something I talk about in my new book, Made a Human, that what we call body, mind, and world, and aging, and birth, and death are actually human constructs. They're not real. Now we can go into that to the extent that you want. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Should we dive into the book for a bit? - We can. - Yeah, yeah, let's do that. If that's what you want to do, let's. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, no, no, I'd love to. I've got so many questions on the book that we'd put together for you. So I'm happy to do that. So in one of the things, this is what I was looking at. You start the book by prompting two questions, right? In moments where you feel very happy, do you watch yourself being happy? And when you're angry, is some part of you free of anger? Right? Why did you start with a few questions?
Questioning the reality (41:41)
- So in all the spiritual traditions, not necessarily just the Eastern traditions, they speak of two words, the immanent and the transcendent. So the immanent is this world that we're in right now, this space-time causality in New York City, the hotel we're in. And then the transcendent world is the world of infinite being or consciousness. At all times, we're in both these worlds without knowing. But once you become aware, even slightly, that the awareness of a thought is not a thought, right? If you're able to observe a thought, then you, the observer, is not that thought, right? Similarly, the observer of the emotion, which is the awareness of an emotion, is not the emotion. - Agreed. - Or a perception or a color. Right now, we are perceiving through our five senses. And what we are perceiving is colors, forms, shapes, sounds, sensations in our body, maybe emotions, and thoughts, and maybe images. That's the raw material of experience. That's all there is. The words body, mind, and world are human constructs based on the interpretation of these raw sensations.
Witnessing emotions (43:11)
So once you start to become a witness of experience, you realize that you are intrinsically free of the experience unless you identify with it, unless you say, "That's me." It's not you, it's an experience you're having, right? - Absolutely. - So once you bind yourself to the experience, which we call the karmic web of existence, then you are in that circle of karma, memory, desire. You are constantly seeking validation. You're afraid of people who criticize you. You're flattered by people who flatter you. You feel beneath someone or superior to someone. It's the melodrama of our daily existence. - Yes. - So when you can observe what's happening in the realm of experience, and instead of reacting to it, you observe the reaction to react, even for a second. Instead of reacting to the experience, you observe the reaction to react. You suddenly realize that your range of options or choices right this moment is actually infinite. And you don't have to be a bundle of conditioned reflexes and nerves that's constantly being triggered by people in circumstances into predictable outcomes. So you become, you're at the mercy of every stranger on the street. So I think it's very important to know that, yes, I'm having this experience, but I am intrinsically free of this experience. So that's how the book starts. - Yeah, and I absolutely love that because it's an analogy I usually use to share that experience is like when we're in a car and someone hits the car, we say, "Oh, someone hit me." But actually they didn't hit you, they hit the car. And you're identifying as the car as yourself. - Yes, now how about if they hit your body, and your body perishes, right? So that's the argument people have against the argument that spiritual people have, which is you're not your body, you're not your mind. So, you remember that famous dialogue between Samuel Johnson and whoever that idealist was, and he said, "The world is a projection of consciousness."
THE ILLUSION (45:30)
And I think it was Samuel Johnson who hit his leg on a piece of stone and said, "I refute you thus," saying that, "You get hit by a bus, you're gonna break your bones and you might die." So why do you say that the physical world is an illusion? Now, if you want, we can address that. - Yeah, let's address that, yeah. - Let's address that. So, you know, this is, of course, I take people through the book very slowly, but if you asked a regular person on the street, what is this? They'd say it's a microphone. If you ask them, what's this? You'd say, this is a watch. What's this? This is my hand. What's this? This is my body. Now, if you really start to look at this very carefully, before you call anything by its name, microphone, hand, body, watch, before you use those words, it's an experience. And the experience is actually not a physical experience. Color, form, and shape are not physical experiences. If I asked you, where in the physical world is the color red located, you would say nowhere. In fact, there's no color red in the physical world.
self and ego (47:04)
What's coming to your eyes are electromagnetic vibrations which have no color. What's happening in your eyes, there's no color. And if I asked you to imagine a beautiful red sunset, you have a picture in your consciousness, but there's no picture in your brain. There's no picture in your eyes. And actually the sunset is not, if you're imagining it, it's not in the physical world. Now, what you don't realize is when you're looking at a real sunset, all you're experiencing is color. The rest is a story. Okay, that's a sunset. This is a body. Okay, color shapes, textures, sensations, smells, images, emotions, and thoughts have no location in the physical world. And yet out of this raw material, we create the idea of a physical world. So in Sanskrit, that's called Jagat Mithya, the world appearance on the screen of your consciousness. And your body is part of that world appearance because people, you know, they say, where are you? People say, I'm here, but there's no one inside there. Okay, because this is also an experience in consciousness. The mind is an experience in consciousness. Moreover, it's a shifting experience in consciousness. No, you know, a thought is ungraspable. It's ephemeral, it's evanescent. You can't catch it. Okay, you can't catch a perception. I look here, I look there. These are two snapshots of perception, and they're evanescent. I look at my body, and by the time I look at it again, it's a different body because it's recycling so fast at the level of atoms and molecules and information and energy. So the fact that we call this a body, it's actually a changing experience of sensations, images, feelings, and thoughts that is a modified form of your own self. And it's changing, it's ungraspable. Same thing with the mind, it's ungraspable. Same thing which we will call with the world. It's a changing experience of shifting what we call qualia in the spiritual literature. Now, in the consciousness literature, there's this word qualia instead of quantum. Quantum is a unit of measurement, but a qualia is a unit of experience. So if I tell you, think of your wife right now, and you see an image, that's a qualia. Now feel the emotion connected with that, that's a qualia. Now think of what you want to do with her this evening, go out for dinner or a movie, that's a qualia. So qualia are units of experience. When we string them together, we create the construct of mind, body, and world.
Role Recognition And Self-Partnership
And once we create that construct, then we're stuck with constructs like birth and death and karma and memory and desire and all the things which make a very fascinating human experience, but it's not reality. It's, we are already in a virtual reality. Okay, so today with VR and immersive augmented experiences and dreamscapes, it is becoming clear that the world that you and I are inhabiting right now is a collective human dreamscape. And as body minds, we are fictional characters in that dreamscape. And it's an illusion that we can upgrade or we can downgrade. We can create heaven out of it or hell, but it's still not fundamental reality. And now with the new technologies, this is becoming very clear. Once you realize that the world is a construct, yes, the construct has been evolving through mythology, through religion, through economics, through history, through society, through culture, but it's still a construct. And what these great seers, these great rishis were able to do is they were able to deconstruct it. Once you deconstruct it, what are you left with? You know, when you left, you've heard that expression, "Nayati, nayati, nayati, I'm not the mind, I'm not the body, I'm not the intellect, I'm the observer." What are you left with?
Self-limiting beliefs (51:19)
Once you deconstruct everything, what you're left with is formless, infinite, dynamic, field of infinite possibilities, infinite creativity, infinite love, and the source of intention. So that's what yoga originally was and should be. Yoga means union, union with the self, which is also the self of the universe. And this is where, you know, I got totally seduced that human suffering, as the Vedanta says, comes from not knowing true reality, fundamental reality, confusing perceptual reality with fundamental reality, grasping and clinging, that which you cannot grasp or cling, the fear of impermanence, the construct of the ego and the fear of death. These are all the same thing, not knowing what is real and what is a projection.
And even the projection can be changed. - Absolutely, wow. What a class in, what a masterclass in reality and illusion, how does then one function within the world, but then still understand? Because I think the challenge people have on a day-to-day basis, as you've probably heard for decades, is this, well, if what I'm experiencing is not complete reality, then where do I go from there? Like, what do I do? Do I get married?
How to recognize yourself in your role (52:44)
Do I fall in love? Do I not? Do I work? - We go to the movies, you know, I used to go to a lot of movies, I don't that much anymore, because what we call everyday reality is a more interesting movie than most movies. Don't have the imagination to capture what is happening in what we call everyday reality. So we're in it, we might as well enjoy it and upgrade it. And that's what the expression is to be in the world and not of it. - Of this world, yeah. - Okay, or we are spiritual beings having a human experience or non-local beings having a local experience, timeless, but in time. Once you understand that, and once you also get into the habit of self-reflection, self-inquiry, observing perceptual experiences without necessarily judging them. So I'm right now having the experience of colors and forms and tastes and smells and sounds. I don't necessarily have to qualify this experience in transcendence where you go to that place where there is no mantra and no thought and just deep stillness, then the shift starts to occur that you're not identifying with your body, mind, or experiences of the world, and yet you're enjoying them or not enjoying them. And now you wanna do something to shift. And since you're in the world, about 25 years ago, I wrote this book, How to Make That Practical. And I don't know how, but basically I came up with the idea of the seven spiritual laws of success, the law of pure potentiality, the law of giving and receiving, karma, intention, desire, least effort and detachment and dharma. Those seven principles guided me into a new idea of what success is, the progressive realization of worthy goals, the ability to love, have compassion, but most importantly, to identify with your creative center instead of the projection that's coming from that center, because most of the time, our experience is coming from identifying with a projection that has been created by the conditioned or ego mind. Now the ego mind is not gonna disappear as long as you're in this body, or actually you're not in the body, the body's in you, but whatever. So it's not gonna disappear. But if you keep it in the background and you're aware of it, and you ask yourself, what am I motivated by? And I have these little tricks in my mind, pursue excellence, ignore success, and then everything happens, synchronicity, meaningful coincidences, the state of grace, effortless being, spontaneous fulfillment of desire. These are little things over the years that have gleaned as my little catch phrases to remind myself that I must live a life that is based on love. And if it's not based on love at the highest level, as the Vedanta say, love should radiate from your light from a bonfire, not focused on anyone and not denied to anyone. It's just the light of the sun. - I really think that entertainment and education should go hand in hand. Why do we have billions and billions of dollars going into entertainment, and yet we can't add 20% of that into just put education within the entertainment? It should be fun, it should be exciting. Like I said in the beginning, it's what we're here to do is learn and create, learn, create, learn, create. It's just like this circle. And so it's like, I don't know, finding how to reignite their passions is, for themselves, fall in love with themselves and then reignite the passion is really, really powerful to me. And then by helping these girls, I know that when they become moms, they're gonna understand not to give away their identity. 'Cause one of the things that I see in moms like so much of the time is they just like, they just become mom. And I'm like, no, you're still this girl before you were a mom and you're still, and I think one of the things that I wish or I wish for all of this to help is to make sure that these girls continue on with who they are. And then it's like who they are. And then there are all of the subcategories, all of the characters that they play go below that. 'Cause I've seen it too much in marriages.
Always help each other find your purpose (57:40)
Like the female just loses her identity and then becomes resentful. It's what happened in my family. I've seen it way too many times with the people around me. I'm just like, how can we heal this? And this is like actually an ongoing conversation in my head, so it's just like. - Yeah, no, I'm really glad you brought that up. I'm working on my second book right now and I talk a lot about how in a partnership, in any relationship, the goal is to always help each other find each other's purpose. Because if you're not doing that, like when I think about me and my wife, when I met my wife, I was quite clear about what I wanted to do. And she had loads of talents and skills, but didn't quite know what she was going to do with them. And over the last five years of us being married, she's really come into her own and she's really growing and flourishing and thriving and it's been beautiful to watch. But I fully agree with you that it's, you can't think that, oh no, but your purpose is just to do this or your purpose is just to look after the home or your purpose even as a whoever the role is, doesn't matter what gender you are, but the idea of, oh, your purpose is just to make money for the house. Like that's not a purpose. Like we all have so much more to do. So I love that you brought that up because you get lost in your role. - Yeah, you get lost in your roles. That's like a real thing. That's what I'm learning from acting as well. It's like, don't get lost in your role. It's like, don't do that. - I've heard people do method acting that have actually lost relationships in the real world because of that. And so when I hear that, I'm like, wow. - Exactly, well, it's a great example of what we do in real life as well. Because I do think like at some point with like a long-term relationship or friendship, whatever it is, it's like you choose to have them come with you. And if you're not choosing that, then the relationship didn't work. Not because it was like you didn't bring them along or you didn't see where they were going and wanted to come with them. It is as much as like we love the butterflies and we love all that.
This is a team partnership. Like if you go, we go. You know? We go. - And you can't be someone's purpose. Like don't try and make it like, no, I am your purpose. Like what I do is your purpose and my purpose is the same as yours. It doesn't work like that. You can't project your purpose onto another person and expect them to just want to live for that, right? - Exactly, exactly. And this is all of these things I've been learning recently, like in the last couple of years, especially with like going through like so many public relationships and having that be, oh God, public relationships are terrifying. Oh my God, after, I was like, I'm good. After my last public relationship, I was like, I'm good, I'm so good. I'm gonna just be me in my own little world. No one gets now. Because not only are you creating roles in the relationship, but now you have the public creating characters of the people that you are. So it's like, you're fighting like, it's like you're having conversations with like four different versions of the person you're dating. And you're like, oh my God, like. - And half of them aren't even real. - I know. I was like, it's like a foggy mirror. You're just like, hello? So that's been really interesting. And then I always feel that relationships are the best reflection as to where you are, right? 'Cause they're just like, I'm just your walking reflection right now. That's why we're in this together, right? So I always get excited when I, 'cause I'm starting to just meet so many amazing people. And I think that's like what I've been learning as well is just like, there's no villain anymore. It's like we can stay together or we can leave in good faith and good heart. And like, it's just, it's not, you know, in high school, you're just like, they broke my heart, what? Now it's just like, oh good. Like you did me a service by leaving because you were being disservice to me and you for staying 'cause you didn't feel. So it's like, at the end of the day, it's all perfect.
Reality, Pain And Curiosity
Fiction vs Reality (01:01:41)
Like what can I, it's all perfect. And then trusting that like. - What helps you trust and accept that when most of our minds hold on to the, but it could have been like this or, because I feel that's what it is, right? It's always this battle between imagination and reality. And a lot of us prefer our imagination, but then we have to deal with reality. And I, oh, I've read something. Actually, I want to read this to you because I think you'll like it. All right, let me find it, let me find it. I have to read it to you because I don't want to mess it up. You know, it's, you know, when you like try and say something and mess it up. So this is by Johann Wolfgang. And he said, "Few people have the imagination for reality." And I read that and it literally like, it really, that's like, there's something, it packs a punch, right? I was like, "Few people have the imagination for reality." And I was thinking, wow, like, I think my imagination is good. But if I had a really good imagination, I'd be able to accept and trust my reality. - Well, you're kind of like, I'm a great storyteller. And the universe is like, sit down, sit down. You can tell it later once it's over. You can say it's yours, but it was mine. Like that's like fully like what I experienced. - That's beautiful, I love that. - You know, it's like, sit down. Like you write it while I create. Like, you know what I mean? Like you remember it, you tell the story. It's ours, you know, but it's mine, but it's ours. - You write, I'll let it. - Yeah, and so like, that's kind of the relationship that I always see. And per your question earlier, imagination and reality, it's, I always, at this point with heartbreaks, I don't see it as heartbreak anymore. I see it as growing pains. And that's sometimes even worse. 'Cause you're just like, I was good. I was good with just this. Like I didn't, I don't wanna grow. Like I'm good, like I'm tired. I just wanna like watch Netflix and chill. Like I don't wanna evolve anymore. Even though I like just got here in retrospect, but like it's still.
The power of pain (01:03:36)
And so if I look at it as growing pains, and then, you know, as, 'cause we're all artists. We're all artists. And so what I'll do now, and it's actually so intoxicating, is I'll create, I'll write poetry, I'll write music, based off of the experience. I mean, we know all of the biggest artists in the world are like, let me tell you about my heartbreak. And then they blow up because of that. And I'm just like, that's in all of us. And so every single time that I have a new experience of heartbreak or just not working out or whatever it is, I'm like, there is gold in this pain. There's gold in this pain and I cannot wait to get it out. I'm just like, woo. So I get this weird, like I get heartbroken, then I get really excited. So it goes back and forth. It's almost, and I always tell people, I'm like, when someone leaves your life, it's okay to feel like you're grieving a death. Because the character that they played in your life is not there anymore. And so you are grieving someone that's no longer there. Like you are, like when I get broken up with someone I truly love and I'm crying and I'm in that space, it is very similar pain to when I lost my mom. And so like I always, anytime like my girlfriend hands at me and she's like crying and sobbing, I'm just like, this shit is valid. Don't worry, like feel it. Like feel it because you lost a character that you thought was in this season, but it's not. And like you thought he was gonna be your season finale. He's not, but it's all good. There's a season 60, there's a season 40. Like, you know, there's so many seasons in your life. So it's just coming back to, oh, so if he wasn't meant to be here, then what I attracted was more parts of myself. I became more me because he came into my life and that is the biggest blessing I could have ever asked for. Like I am a product of everyone that I've dated and I've found, I've fallen in love with them. And then those parts that I fall in love with, I've like, I took them for myself. And so I almost, I'm getting to the point now where I don't grieve it anymore because I'm like, well, the person that I was in love with, I became. And so that's so interesting how-- - Even if that person wasn't there, the part that you thought you fell in love with. - Like how powerful it is. Like relationships always fascinate me because I've always been a relationship girl and seeing how much people grow after relationships. It's like, I mean, you guys have ever seen like, don't break a girl's heart, if you know what I mean? Like it happened, I just watched my sister do this and I'm just like, ooh, she's gonna be so good after this. Like I'm so excited, like I get so excited for her. 'Cause like, I just love it upgrade. Like girls get hotter. Like it's just like, it's such a vibe. I get so excited 'cause we need, it's almost like the fire. It's like, it breaks your heart open so you can light fire. And I'm just like, yes, like let's go. So it sucks, it always sucks. But once again, like back to that same belief that I had, like the more he pulls you back, it's like a slingshot. He just like launch you forward. So I just, at the beginning of 2020, I was just like, oh, this is painful. This is painful, I wonder what's gonna happen. And now it's like, I can honestly say I've helped more people than I ever would have imagined. And I'm also like playing with this belief and like, I think all companies should is like, can we just like stop this idea that like a company or a brand living forever is success?
The Monoploy (01:06:58)
Because it's just, it's not like, it's not sustainable. Things evolve. So I always tell myself, I'm like, whether this company stays, whether it does, that's not the point, that was never the point. The point is, is I've helped, I would say over now, like 10,000 girls truly like actually help them, like speaking to them, talking to them one on one. And that I will carry with me, they will carry with them. Like that's good enough. So it's like, it's almost like this is good enough. It's okay, it doesn't have to last forever. None of these things have to last forever. I feel like we're so in companies in general, even though this is a community, but like companies, it's like, we're so thirsty to just be the monopoly. And I'm like, no, what is this world gonna look like if we're all trying to be monopolies, we can't. Like, are you good? Are you safe? You have a roof over your head and you can host people? Like, you're good, you're good. Like let's, now how can we return the faith and do more? And it's like, so that's kind of where I'm at with "We Are Warriors" is like, it will continue and it's gonna be amazing, but the impact is already there. And I'm so honored to like have that impact on them. It's just 'cause it's so real. - No, I'm so glad that you're owning that and accepting that because I can agree with you more. I think we're fascinated with longevity and lasting till the end. And even in relationships, you stretch it out far longer than it needs to be just because we think end means failure. - Failure, exactly. - And you're so spot on that the impact, the end is insignificant really. It's all about what's happening right now in this place right today.
Your environment and rituals (01:08:41)
- Yeah, I forget. I'm like, it's right here, fam. - Yeah, if you're making an impact. Yeah, if you're making an impact on all of these women today and they're impacting each other and you're empowering them to also become their own experts and discover their skills. - Their own heroes. - That's beautiful. - Yeah, and I'm so glad that you made that point because I think our obsession with making something last is everything. - It's unhealthy. - Yeah, it's unhealthy. - Yeah, it's unhealthy. - And you're only 24. - Yeah. - Right? - Yeah. - Yeah, which is amazing. Like that's the insane part here. I feel like I'm speaking to the oldest soul in the world and then I have to remind myself. And that's such a wonderful thing because you're carrying your mother's energy in such a special way. - It's her. - Yeah, no, it comes through. It's like, it's so clear that, you know. - And it's cool too, 'cause like for anyone who's lost someone, y'all have a speed dial up there. Like you guys can just like, I literally am like, mom. And she's right there. And so I'm like, you have the strongest connection to the other side or whatever you believe. It's really, truly whatever you believe 'cause I'm pretty sure all of this is made up. I mean, we're just like, I'm sitting on an idea right now which trips me out sometimes. I don't know, like it's weird. But it's like, we have such a deep connection to the other side because we have that person on the other side. And so I utilize that as much as I can. And whenever I forget, I just like, I'm like, how can I remember? How can I remember? I think that's where I am right now. I just, I will, it's always the environment too.
Remembering what weve forgotten (01:10:22)
So like, I'll do incense, I'll make lights, candles, and I'll just sit down and I'll remember. Like whether that's just sitting in silence, it's helping me remember, but, or just writing until something else comes out. That's what I, or talking to a friend about it. Like I think I'm a, and I think we're all at that point where it's not so much you're learning something new. It's almost you're just remembering what was already there on top of everything else per what my sister said about the onions and just unraveling it. And so it's constantly coming back to that. But like, I still, you know, I still suffer. Like we all suffer, like it's all good. It's all good. It's all good. - How have you got through that? You know, you talked about this earlier and I think you've experienced this. Like you've, and I love what you said because we were connecting on this beforehand. And I sometimes feel the same way because I thought I was going to be a monk and that's literally what I built up. So before that, I had so many passions, but my parenting was ignore the passion, do the safe thing. And so my passions were music. My passions were spoken word and my passion was philosophy. - Do you still write spoken word? - I do, I do, yeah. It's such a passion for me. And I feel like a lot of my videos and a lot of my content is still wordplay and has so much, I still use this spoken word in a different way today. And so that's so much a part of my life, but it was like, do the safe thing. And so I was studying business and I thought I'd be an investment banker or a consultant or whatever, any of that stuff. And then I became a monk, that became my dream. - Like mom, dad. - Yeah, literally like from all of that to that. But even letting go of that, I would say I'm most myself in what I do today. And being a monk was part of that, but it's not all of me. And being in media, which is what I am now is not all of me, it's a part of me. And then being in the world of business was a part of me, it's not all of me. And I think you are so right that we limit ourselves. We feel society limiting us and we feel we have to choose to be one thing. And I think that the fact that you're 24 years old and you've allowed yourself to continue to do this and you still do today, I think that's so wonderful because I think a lot of people stay stuck until again, wanting to make something last. - Yeah, wanting to make something last.
The importance of curiosity (01:12:41)
And like every single thing, and I will say this with absolute certainty, like every single thing that any of you guys have been doing that you feel like was the thing and then it's not, it is serving what your thing is. Like ballet, I spent literally 20, almost 20 years every day, four or five, six hours a day, I would be on point and my feet still hurt. It's just like, but because of that, it's translated into storytelling. I know how to use my body, my work ethic is insane. I understand, I know how to take direction. There is, I know how to feel when I move. Like it is literally servicing me in everything I've done. And so it's just, it's almost just like being okay with letting it go, but then you don't actually let it go. It's always there, that's the thing. It's like, it's always there serving you. And so that's how I feel with pretty much everything I do. My mom said, another thing my mom said is like, she goes, just be passionately curious because put so much pressure on us. So my mom would always just be like, just be curious. Like, just like follow your curiosities. And if it doesn't lead you anywhere, just be like, oh, that was interesting. And then go over here.
Community Building And Agency
The intention of work is important (01:13:49)
And so that's what I do. And given I do, I still of course have big dreams, but I let my curiosity take me. And I don't, the big dream is not the goal. It's like the little moments that get up to it. So when I'm having a director meeting and I'm talking to them about a role or whatever it is, it's like my intention in that call is to make the director feel good, not to get the part. So just having those little indirect of like the curiosity. - That's such a huge thing you just dropped. Yeah, that's a huge thing. - It's who you are. It's who all of us are. It's like, if you can stop going, well, this is my goal to like, my intention. I think intentions are actually the most underrated and most powerful things I've ever, like I still learn about how, we have an intention 24/7 with everything, everything single thing we do. We just like, sometimes we're aware of it, sometimes we're not. And so when you can put an intention, an intention on something before you do it, it's crazy how powerful it is. So it's like, I always make sure because at the end of the day, and this is kind of what we're all looking for, I think even more so than the diploma, than the thing and then the degree is someone that we connect to, someone that we feel close to, someone that we almost feel like we've already met before. Like that essence comes from the intention of making that person feel connected. Not from, I hope I'm right for this, I'm hope I'm this. And so whenever I hire for my company, that's my intention. I was like, I don't really, I don't care where you went to college. Like why would I care? Why would I care? I care about who you are. Like what's your intention? Are you gonna be fun to work with? Like are we gonna, 'cause ideally, I want you to be in this for the long run. And so do I wanna be talking to you for the next five to 10 years? Like what does that look like? And so having that perspective on when it comes to jobs, when it comes to meetings, anything ever is like the human connection should go first, no matter what, no matter how bad you want it. Like the human connection is first. That's actually been the best like magic trick my mom taught me. 'Cause it's like, it always provides what I need and then what the other person needs. So for instance, I was like very excited for this role that I almost got a couple of weeks ago. I was very excited, won't say any names. And he was so sweet and we were talking, we were having such a good time and I really understood the character and it was really great. But then, because I'm not very experienced in the space, he was like, we're gonna choose someone else. And I was like, that's completely fine. But then I was sitting in meditation and I had this urge to write him an email. And I didn't know why, because my goal wasn't necessarily to get the part. I just almost felt like the connection of me and him wasn't finished. And so I just sent him a thank you. And I was like, thank you so much for speaking, giving me your time, like learning about me because who I am matters because you need to get to know if I fit the care.
Introducing the podcast grand finale (01:16:40)
Like all of these things. And because of that, it almost solidified our relationship. But that wasn't my intention. My intention was just like, this isn't over. I don't know why. And I'm just gonna sit down and see. So like listening to, almost like letting it overpower whether or not what happened. It's like, if you don't feel like it's finished, like go in there with the intention that you wanna just solidify the mirror that you guys are reflecting towards each other as opposed to like the opportunity that's kind of on the sidelines. So that's been a huge tool. Huge, it's like actually like the, probably the reason I'm here to be honest. So shout out to all. - Shout out to all that you said. I love that. Today I've discovered how funny you are, which is great. Which is really awesome. Which is really awesome. So I love that. We're gonna have so many memes made out of this interview. - Oh no. - There's gonna be so many great ones. Alexis, is there something that I haven't asked you about that's like on your mind and you're like, I have to share this. I wanna say this before we go into the final five. But I wanna know if there's anything that you're feeling intuitively as you are. - Thank you so much. Like actually, thank you so much. I'm gonna hit a teary eyed just like saying it, but thank you. I feel like, I don't know. It was weird. Once I finally solidified this podcast with you, something clicked inside of me and I was like, I am becoming the person I wanna be. And so just thank you for showing that to me. 'Cause it really, I'm not, yeah. I just thank you. I have no, I just like, words don't, they're not it right now. But thank you. Yeah. So just, that's it. That's all I have to say. - I love that. I love that. That means the world to me. And I'm hoping that that synergy and synchronicity continues and this is the beginning of a great friendship.
Raising up multiple communities (01:18:34)
So that's my hope. I really believe that. Honestly, the podcast for me has either been a place where I had a lot of relationships offline that people didn't know the types of conversations we were having. And so the podcast was a great way of me sharing, hey, I'm really good friends with the person. This is what we talk about. And I want everyone to hear it. And then it's also been the opposite where it's been like, here's someone I'm really interested to get to know. And I wanted to start a friendship. - And then it's perfect. - Yeah. And so the podcast for me has been so much more than, and it's what you're saying about a community, more than a company or a brand. Like the podcast for me is not a show. Like that's not the point of it.
Agency and self-directed Chapman (01:19:19)
Like it's a way I can get to know humans that I'm interested in or I find interesting and help people learn about them. So actually I should be thanking you because, I think sitting down with you today has just completely blown my mind and opened up my mind to just so many possibilities as to how someone who's navigated so many stressful situations. And I think the closer you get to it, the more you realize how hard it is.
Entitlement = Pain (01:19:42)
So when I was a young kid and I grew up in London, I knew no one in the entertainment industry. I was not in LA or Hollywood. Everyone in my area was not going off to work in anything to do with the world I'm in now. And because of that, you look at people and you go, "Oh, well, life must be easy for you. You guys have money, you guys have fame, you guys are attractive. Why are you complaining?" And as I've got closer to the industry, closer to the people that I coach, that I work with, clients of mine, I've only just had more compassion for everyone. Both the people that are like me sitting back there judging and then both the people who are in this situation because they realize we're all just feeling some type of pain. And the more we can rise to that point without judgment, the better it's gonna be for us because-- - We can evolve together. - Yeah, if we expect anyone who's successful to be always happy, then what we're saying is, when I become successful, I have to always be happy. And that pressure is just-- - Right back on us, it's interesting how that works. And it's almost like, yeah, anything that we direct outwards is an exact manifestation of what's gonna happen inside of us and so we have to be so careful with our words, like I don't, why do you think they call it spelling? Spells, like I'm like-- - Wow, that's good, I've not heard that before, I like that, that's good. - The words are like I am, oh my God. When I hear girls say like I am ugly or I am, I'm just like, no, no, like you can, no. I refuse to let you say that about yourself 'cause you would never say that about your daughter, you would never say that about your friend. And so it truly is like having these honest conversations with anyone at any level has been eye-opening to me and that's one of the reasons why I've always loved the podcast so much 'cause I got to actually just see the person and not the characters that I see them play in life. So that's really inspiring and then also knowing that pain happens on any level, like pain is pain, like me losing someone from a breakup is just as painful as me losing my mom to death and I was like, that was weird, I was like-- - And you almost feel guilty or like you feel like, can I feel that, do I allow myself to? - So it's like, yeah, validating on any level because that's actually what connects us as well and I almost feel like until we have, the goal right now is to connect at every level of being human and then from there, I mean, I'm pretty sure an evolution would happen which would be really cool. That'd be really cool, I'd be like, whoa.
Connection is Our’s (01:22:13)
Can you imagine if we had everyone at the same time be like, love? - Yeah, can you imagine? - That would be crazy. I've heard, I'm sure you've heard of those stories where they have monks praying at the, all at the same time, like 3,000 monks or whatever and the crime rates goes down in the city. I've definitely heard, I've seen studies on that before. - Yeah, same. - But just those kinds of scenarios would be like, I think that's what my work would ideally, my heart work, I guess, is what it's there for, is to have just more moments of just people being in absolute love and even when I can facilitate, we were talking about hosting and how it's like, why have the big house if you're not putting everyone in it? Like hosting, like why do I have balcony? I'm not gonna do anything on it. Like I'm gonna have all my friends like there and like host people and like, why do I have more than one bedroom? So I can let my friends be there and like, just hosting and having that environment where like, we come together and bring like real connection. It is, so it's helping the planet so much more than we know. - I've got two more questions for you before we go into the final five because I've got, there's so many things I could talk to you about. The first question I wanted to ask you was around, your passion for acting now. So, you know, what right now is making you so passionately curious about acting? What is it about roles? What is it about your development as an artist that connects you so much to acting? - It's almost like proving to myself how many different person or identities I can be. I think it's like, we almost, I feel, even though I seem outgoing, I'm actually quite terrified all the time. And I would say I'm like an ambivert, like in between.
Childhood, Mental Health, And Personal Values
But when it comes to acting, I don't have a choice. Like I have to show up as this person if I'm nervous, like it doesn't matter. And like once I'm not thinking about lines, once I'm like in that state where I just like haven't memorized through the heart and I can just be there, it's similar to flow state. I'm sure you've written, I've read all, I love flow state. - Yeah, I love flow state. - Flow state is the goal for everything, always. So it puts me in flow state basically. I don't, there's no time. I don't remember, I'm not thinking about myself. I'm not thinking about my body. I'm not thinking, it's just, I'm just here. And like similar to the way like when you surf, like you're on a wave, it's like, it's those like 30 seconds of just like, I blacked out. I wasn't even there. - Now when you're saying that you can actually surf, so you've actually had that experience. Like most people use that analogy, but we've never surfed. But you actually surf. - Anything, yeah, yeah. Just like any-- - But you can't actually surf. - Yeah, I can surf decently. Not good enough to the point where I'm like that guy and the surf being like, where'd you catch my wave, bro? I'm like, but just those moments, like I think I'm right now, I'm just searching for those moments in my life. Like I'm just like, when am I gonna forget time here? Am I gonna forget time here? And so acting is just one of those things that I've seen is such a powerful, and also it's best because I get to lose track of time with another person. And I feel like connection is so strong for me. And so it's like, I remember, oh my God, this was such a cool moment. On my first set, it was an older actor, he's been around for a long time. I'm sure you know him, I don't remember his name, but he was very, very kind. And we had a scene together where he was kind of just like, like getting in my face about something. Basically saying that I wasn't worthy or, well, I don't know. And I was just like, I got this, I got this. I got this scene, don't worry guys. And he was like getting in my face. And I just remember a moment where like, we like lost, I just wasn't there and he wasn't there. And it was just a pure moment and I wasn't acting and I was actually feeling everything. And then afterwards he comes to me and he looked at me at crafties, the little snack area. He was like, you get it. He was like, you get it, don't you? I was like, yeah. And he was like, keep doing it kid, keep doing it. It's amazing. - Oh, that's awesome. - And he was like, you get it. And he was like, it was almost as if he like said, like you're closer to source in those moments. And so he looked at me like, you get it. And I just flipped out after, 'cause I was eating banana being like, I get it. I get it, I get it. I get it. And so after that, I was like, okay, this is like what I meant to do now for now, I guess. And like, we'll see where that goes. But yeah, I just, once again, like the intention, the paths change, but the intention stays the same. So I think that's what keeps me-- - Again, love that. I just love that. I couldn't agree more. I think that's been the challenge for so many people. We try and keep our path the same. And then-- - But we don't know our attention. - Yeah, we don't know our attention.
Keeping Your Path (01:27:11)
Yeah, but keeping your intention the same and the path changing. Oh, I can so relate to that. - So back to those notes, like any intentions that you guys have, like any of it, just write it down. So at least you just know. You just know, 'cause I forget my intentions all the time. - Of course, yeah. You have to repeat them daily. - I repeat them daily in my prayer, in my affirmation. - Yeah, exactly. - At the beginning and end of the day, I have to. - Exactly, exactly. And then from there, it almost like, and this may be a weird belief, but I've been seeing this a lot in my life, all the best things in my life, I didn't work for. And I keep seeing that as a pattern. I'm like, maybe God doesn't want us to struggle. Like the way, 'cause everything that I've struggled for wasn't meant for me. So that's been really interesting of almost being like, you take the reins. Like you take the reins, I'll create the intention, but you create the story and like I'll trust the path and like whatever that is, like let's go. Like let's make it fun, right? 'Cause like I do feel like the more you can give to God, to like if he gives you like a ball, a red ball, for instance, like if you have fun and you're playing with it, he's gonna be like, oh, she's playing with it. I'll give her something else. Like I'll, and it's just like, it's almost like entertain, like show him or show the universe that like you're so stoked of what it gave you that it wants to give you more. Like you almost, you know, and like you have, I have a puppy, her name is Angel. And whenever I give her a treat, she's so stoked that I gave her a treat that I'm like, I gotta give you another one. And so like, I almost feel like that's, and then when I walk my dog and she like is not leestrain yet, so she'll just be like, like choking yourself out, trying to like go everywhere. And I'm just like, is this what I look like? Is this what I look like? Oh no, I learned so much from dogs. Also, when a dog, my dog is obsessed with a ball, one ball in particular, it's gross. I can't believe she still has it. I'm just like, oh my God. So obsessed with this ball. And I'm like, that is amazing. And literally her only goal with this ball is to give it back to me so that I can throw it, so she can catch it, so I can give it back to her. Shoot, there's no point to this whatsoever. And so it showed me, I was like, do it just for the act. Like don't do it for like the idea, the goal or the dream.
The beauty of childhood and play (01:29:22)
Just do it. And so like, whenever I play ball with her, I practice that. I'm like, I'm acting just 'cause it's fun, 'cause I just do it. Or I'm creating this company 'cause it's fun. And this is just what I do. Like, it's just fun. And like, 'cause every single time I've gotten caught up in like the huge image of things, is like when I've lost sight of my heart's path. And I'm just like, ugh. So, but the greatness isn't within that path, like for sure. But it's never like the same path as you would see, 'cause it's literally just you playing with a ball. And you're just like, what's the point, God? Like just wait, like just keep doing it for fun. - Yeah, yeah, keep doing it for fun. - Just keep doing it for fun. And so I almost, and like now that I'm 24, I'm in this adult life and I'm just like, do I need to get serious now? You know, like it's weird. - Don't, don't do it. - I don't want to. - It's a trap. - It's a trap. But it's so strong. I feel it heavy on me now. Like when you just scrounge along, you have to wake up at this time. And God's like, no, you're not lazy if you sleep in. That's a belief, let's get rid of that. Like, no, you're not like, did you know? It's just literally I am now taking off layers that I just got. I'm like, whoa, what is this? What is, and now that I'm coming into my mid 20s, I'm just like, what, is this not supposed to be fun anymore? Because like, that's what I've heard. And that's what I like see a lot of the times. But I just refuse because it's so inspiring to meet. I have a few friends that are like, what's it like in their 50s or 60s? And they're like, children. - Having the best time of their life, yes. - Having the best time of their life and everything works out for them. And I'm just like, that is, if I'm gonna tell a story, I'd rather it be like that. - Yeah, I've added play back into my life so much. Like play is like one of my number one values in life. - You're going to the park. Not for the dog for you, but you're going to the park. - Yeah, I just want more play in my life. And there was a beautiful quote by Richard Branson where he said that, you know, you don't stop playing because you get old, you get old because you stop playing. And I love that because it's been so big for me. I'm at a place in my life where I'm like, play is a huge value and it sounds insane. And people don't get it. I just got back from Miami. I was there for two weeks and we were on a really busy schedule. We were working from like 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. every single day. But at 9 p.m. every day, we'd go and play paddle tennis from nine to 11. And I felt like a kid every night where I was just waiting to be out in the paddle court. And I was just like, have you ever played paddle tennis? Okay, it's amazing. It's, I'm the biggest advocate of this sport. I've introduced many. But play is just such a big value for me now. And even when I'm with friends, I'm like, what can we do that's playful? - That's playful. - Like we've been, I've been doing crazy things with friends like archery and like painting lessons and whatever it is, because I just wanna play. - You just wanna play. And it's where we create new passions. Play is where we create new passions. So also boredom. I always am like, boredom is so valuable, especially now with our films. And like all of this instant gratification and we've heard a million times and it's all known now. But like, for real though, like I can't even drive without being like, don't text and drive, but look at all these billboards. You know, it's weird. I'm just like, they're telling it.
Boredom is a catalyst (01:32:31)
And it's just all of this is trying, everything is trying to get your intention. Everything is trying to get your attention like to the tee. And so I'm like, okay, how do I work against this? And it's only gonna get probably more intense, I would assume so. So that's like, literally, I'll say it again. That's why I got a dog. That's like fully why I got a dog. 'Cause I was like, I need something that's, I'm gonna get bad news on the phone. And I'm like, okay, bye. And then the dog's just like, you know. Okay, here. So you know how like in any like Disney, like movie, like Pixar, whatever, there's always a sidekick. - Yes. - Tangled the Chameleon. Like there's a bunny in the Abominable Soul Man. There is always like this really funny comical relief. - Olaf in Frozen. - Olaf. - Yeah. - I was like, I need to, I want a sidekick. Like I want that idiot that's just like running and hitting a wall while I'm trying to like do business. Like I can, we need that. Like we need that. - That's so cool. - Yeah, so like movies are so powerful in the way that they like kind of, they give us characters to like replicate. And so I've almost like whenever I watch a movie, I'm just like, I like that character. Like that character is really cool. Like one of the shows that I actually like loved growing up with is Entourage. - Yeah, okay, I've got a funny story to tell you about Entourage. - Oh my God. - So I was a monk when Entourage was famous. I never watched it, so I didn't know what it was. So my wife just made me watch Entourage. So we literally just finished it. It's one of the best shows ever. It's amazing. - It's so good. You're like just vibing. - I would watch it again. I loved it. I literally just watched it this year.
It is crazy how similar (01:34:02)
- Exactly, and so it's like you have like the characters around you that are just like, they're so needed and you don't know why, but they're so needed. Like they're so important to the story. And that's how I look at all of my friends. I'm like, you guys are so, like creating your show like is like in a healthy way, of course, because, but it's taught me a lot. Like as much as Hollywood is very toxic and dangerous in ways, but it's also a great way to get to understand how you want your life show to go. Like it's just like, I can find parts of myself in different, like, have you watched Dave yet? - No. Oh no, no, I have watched, I watched the first season, not the second. - Gator. - I need a gator in my life. Like he's so funny. I was just like, he's just like, he's there always making jokes, always there, always holding it together, always holding strong. Like you need that person, and sometimes it's you that's that person, but I always, that really helps me just like understand the thing I'm doing. - It sounds like everyone needs to revisit their childhood or remember and write a memoir. Even if it's not a memoir that gets published and goes out to the world, it almost feels like reflecting is really important. What helped you? Were you speaking to friends from back then or were you speaking to your, you know, who are you connecting with to reignite some of those memories? - Oh, everyone in the memories. You know, I called my mom, my brother, my cousins, who I grew up with friends from the time. I corroborated the stories because memories are a weird thing, you know? I remember it a certain way, somebody else remembers it a certain way. And there was this one story I remember, I was kicked out of MoMA for touching a painting when I was 15, 16 or something. And I remember that day being wonderful 'cause we went to the Statue of Liberty after and like, you know, we got hot dogs and we were walking around New York City. And I remember it being like, oh, I touched, you know, a painting that's so cool that I touched, I think it was a starry night. And my cousins who were with me, remember the day completely differently. They were tortured, embarrassed. My cousin was an art student. She was like, you got me kicked out of MoMA. And like, I was like, wow, I didn't remember that at all. - Well, that's brilliant. Was that your rebellious side or was that a mistake? - Neither, I was just curious. - Curious. - I just, I feel like rules sometimes, and trust me, I mean, I'm in a public profession. I have to follow them. But, you know, sometimes we conform to rules that just sort of stop our ability to grow. And unless it's like hurting someone or something, which by touching starry night, I probably was hurting the painting. But at that time I didn't know. - Well, the value of the painting just went up. It just went up. But you know, like, otherwise I think like you've got to sometimes, you have to push the envelope. There's been too many generations that have been defined by what people think we can achieve, or limitations that have been imposed because of people not being able to think or dream big enough. And I think it's every generation's responsibility to show the endless possibilities to the next.
Mental Health and Values (01:37:23)
- Yeah, you've definitely done that. I mean, you're constantly breaking rules in your career and your journey starting from touching that painting at MoMA all the way through today. But was that an energy and a mindset that you believe you had at that young age? Or is that something you think you gradually developed? Where did that confidence come from? Because when I hear you say it today, it comes with confidence. Obviously it comes with having done it. And I think there are a lot of people out there who may feel that way, but they then also feel insecure that are they the right person to do that? Do they have permission to do that? There's something that then still holds them back. What was it for you that allowed you to go all the way? - Well, two things. My parents, for sure. I grew up in an environment where I was not shamed for my ideas. At 12 years old, I told my parents I wanted to live in America with my aunt. And my parents were like, "Bye, peace."
Parenting And Role Modelling
It was fine. We had a logical pro and con conversation. I was raised sort of to have opinions, even if the room was hostile. So I think that really gave me a sense of self. And I think it's really important in parenting for us to treat our children like they're developing their own minds, because that's so important for them to have a sense of self and feel like they're not robots, but they're actually thinking and they have a say in their decisions. It really lends for adults being able to have a sense of confidence. And second, to really understand and accept that confidence is not something you always need. You don't, you know? So put it in a backpack. It's okay, give it a break. Let it be in your purse. Let it be in your wallet. Let it chill for a second. Feel insecure. Feel like scared. Feel afraid. Feel vulnerable. But when you need the confidence and you walk into that room, you'll have it. 'Cause you didn't keep using it. You didn't need to constantly have a cover of, or sort of like a uniform of confidence. You don't have to always show confidence. You don't have to exude confidence. You never, you don't. You just have to pull it out when you need it. And then when it's in the reserve, it's so much more powerful because you're allowing yourself to be all the things. I feel insecure. I'm terrified that this book is coming out. It's the first time I've ever written. And I've never been so personal in my whole life. I've been a public person for 20 years. Never scratched beneath the surface. I've gotten away with sharing whatever I wanted to share about my life and not more. My story is, people think they know it, but they really don't. And I've managed that for 20 years. But I think I now on the other side of 35 was feeling a sense of confidence and a sense of self in my capabilities in what I bring to the table. It only took 20 years for me to get there, but I got there.
My # me too mom (01:40:21)
And I think all those insecurities that I address in my book don't scare me that much anymore, as they did at that time, as they worried me. And I was like, I don't wanna talk about it. Nobody needs to know about my life. But now I'm at a place where I'm just like, well, it's still on my terms. And I'm hoping that people maybe get to know me a little bit more than a fashion meme or a headline or something like that. - Yeah, I think that's what I love about it from the few pages that I've flicked through. I definitely see you allowing yourself. And that's the power of a book though. And so I relate to that insecurity. My first book came out last September. - I know, we know your first book. I have it. - I was so, I was so, oh, that's awesome. I'm so glad you have it. I was so nervous. So I know what you mean by that. And especially for you at this stage in your career of yours is a memoir, mine had part stories. It wasn't a memoir. So I can only imagine, but I see you doing that. And books are so powerful for that. And that's why I really hope everyone who's listening and watching right now, if you're enjoying this conversation, go and pick up the book because I do think that media, the news, the short meme, the clip, it portrays such a limited view of someone like yourself. - It's a superficial view really. - Yes. - And it's okay. It's a choice also. I want for people to consume only a part of me. I want to be able to preserve my humanity, my family, my life, my opinions. I may have chosen a public profession, but I'm not an elected official. I don't owe an explanation to anyone for the choices that I make.
Selective candor (01:42:13)
I'm here to create work. I'm doing a job just like everybody else. Mine happens to be in entertainment and it happens to have a lot of cameras on my face. It's fine. I made that deal with the devil. So I've kind of made peace with the fact that I prefer it being from a distance. But at the same time, I think now I've been a public person for more than half my life. It's my normal. And only now have I reached a point where I'm allowing the walls to sort of fall down and letting whoever wants to know me, get to know me as the person that I am. Before that I was very protective of who I was, 'cause maybe I was insecure about who I was, or I still didn't have a sense of self.
I don't know. But I think in the journey of life, I've reached a place where I'm good with who I am. - Yeah. That's wonderful to hear by the way. And I can feel it off your energy. What's the part of yourself in this book that you share that you think most people are going to be surprised by? Where you think that people may just be like, what? And I'm sure there's many, but what's something that stands out? - There are a few, which I think people may be surprised by that I was vulnerable enough to discuss. And I think my failures, my struggles, rejections, sadnesses that I've never really, people have never seen. I always wear a brave front. Most women in tough jobs have to always have a little bit more of a stronger front to be taken seriously. I built that very early. At 18 to be thrown into the limelight of this job. I mean, you've been in it for a long time. It's a crazy profession, the expectations, the pressure, to deliver under that scrutiny, to be artistic, to yet have a point of view, to be unique, not have your own trajectory because that's the only way it'll work. Nobody wants me to in the entertainment business. You want new kind of, you have to always have a sense of evolution. So it was really, really scary in the beginning. And I think everything just changes with time. And this was one of the good changes that came out of it for me. - No, absolutely. And I'm hoping that, I wonder, do you think that's changing now if someone's coming into the entertainment industry today at 18, or do you think it hasn't changed? Where's your perception on that when you're guiding young artists or seeing people that you follow on social media or whatever it may be, are you feeling it's changing? Has it improved or no? - The pressure, you mean? - Not the pressure, more the, like you were saying, when you came into the industry, you had to put on a brave front, you had to wear that face. It was the only way to survive. Do you feel it's the same now for young Telen as well? - I think, well, I was talking about definitely as a female in the entertainment business. - Yes, yes, as a female. - Oh, as a female, okay. - Yes. - I think so. I think, it's still hard when you're starting out for women to be taken seriously, for your ideas to be given the kind of credence that a man's would as quickly, probably, especially in professions where, normally you don't see women because women have never been pushed in that direction or women have never wanted to go in that direction because it was never normalized for them, that their ambitions could go in that direction, business, politics, to be heads of companies, engineering, like coding, policymaking, like stuff like that, lawyers, women have just about in the last few generations been coming to the fore and are standing neck to neck with guys, but it's still an anomaly. It's still not as normal in terms of numbers.
The pressure to be a role model for the next generation. (01:46:29)
It's still not equal. So until that happens, I think it will be hard for young girls to be taken seriously when they come into professions that are predominantly male, but it's okay. Women before us have fought the fight and women after us will fight the fight. It'll just hopefully not be the same fight. Hopefully our generation will not let our kids inherit our problems as women. We are definitely working in that direction, but I think as the world needs to sit up and take notice that this demand is loud because it's a requirement. This demand is loud because that's what's right and that is the reflection of the world.
Dont judge me (01:47:09)
Women are 50% of it and we should be reflected in every area. And basically feminism is that, right? Like don't decide for me what I should be doing, when I should be doing it and how I should be doing it. Just like men have had that freedom, give me that as well. So I guess it's that. Sorry, we deviate completely. - No, no, no, you're not deviating at all. It's a strong message and I stand by it. So it's a great message. And it's really interesting where male privilege is a really interesting thing to reflect on. I remember when I first started reflecting on it, it was even really a few years back. And I feel very much I was raised by my mom and I have a younger sister. So I'm very close to the women in my life, but it started to strike me in a crazy way that I grew up having had certain dreams of becoming something that my sister couldn't have had. And that wasn't because of the way we were parented. It was because of what you saw. And when that really hit me and I stood and looked at that and I often encourage a lot of my friends in that direction too, I'm like, if you really think about if they have a son and a daughter, I'm like, if you really think about some of the options that don't seem available to your daughter that she may never consider a career. And I really think that that consideration is where the equality is, like the opportunity of even having that idea of I could do that. - Exactly, the opportunity of having choice, I think. A lot of women, I am extremely privileged that I was raised by a feminist, I'm married to a feminist. I'm extremely privileged that my parents, which is why I brought up parenting earlier, a big reason I have a sense of confidence and I'm on this side of the fight because it's not as hard as it is on so many women around the world. I still had to fight, of course, I had to break down the doors and I had to prove a point to be taken seriously. I was kicked out of movies and replaced and all the things. But I still had it so much easier. There are women around the world that don't have a say in their life that are married off when other people decide that people choose who they are married to, whether they can work or not, when they should have children, what kind of children they should have. And that doesn't mean giving up culture, that doesn't mean giving up tradition. It just means creating opportunity. My father told me when I was very, very young, my mom, since I was nine years old, you will have financial independence before anything you do. It doesn't matter whose daughter you are, it doesn't matter who you're married to, you'll stand on your own feet. And there's such a power to that, to having, to be raised by parents who put that in my head. So I was ambitious from 12 years old.
Gender Roles And Personal Growth
Toxic masculinity (01:50:10)
I decided every year what I wanted to be and it changed every year. - I love hearing that and it reminded me of something you've said before when you were speaking about your father there, about how Nick for you shares this same admiration of your power and your ambition and feels supportive and excited and enthusiastic about the way you carry yourself. Tell us a bit about how, I feel like that's such an important thing for both anyone in a relationship to feel like their partner is inspired by their values, their beliefs and their dreams. What has it felt like in the past where you feel like you haven't had that? And if someone who's listening or watching is feeling like maybe I don't have that, how do you think someone can navigate that or to ultimately attract the partner that does have that?
Women marrying up then not being able to leave (01:51:00)
What's that journey like? Because I think a lot of people feel like they're with someone who may not understand or get their dreams, especially when they're starting out. - Then it's the wrong person for you. And if you have the, especially if you're starting out and you're testing the waters and I think it's so crucial if you have a choice in your life to end up with someone who is not enthused by your dreams is at least interested in them, is at least excited about them or is at least encouraging. Like that's exciting because everyone's busy and everyone has a thing in their lives, but to take, to make the effort, to make the effort to make you feel like your dreams are as important as the other one is such a gift. And I have been very blessed to have that. - You know, I find wherever you are in your relationship, obviously you and Nick lead extremely busy lives. My wife and I lead busy lives and I feel even if someone's not in the entertainment industry or the media industry, everyone feels like they live busy lives. What does support look like when two people are busy, driven and ambitious? Because you obviously have it, you're speaking about it right now and it's beautiful. What does that actually look like in a real practical sense? Obviously the last six months or the last 12 months have been different, but in reality, what does that look like? Because I feel that maybe sometimes we have false expectations, sometimes you want, you know, it's not natural that you can be at every show Nick does. It's not natural for him to be at every set you're doing. Same with me and my wife, like my wife can't be at every event I'm speaking at. I can't be at every interview or something she's doing. What does support look like? What does love look like in a very real practical sense? - I think when it comes to support specifically, I think giving the other person the space to do what they're doing is very important without them feeling like, oh my, like for example, I'm here in London for a year right now and Nick is filming in LA and I can't travel, but before the holidays, he made sure he was here for two months to settle me in, you know, to make sure that the house was all set up and everything was sorted and we were together for the holidays. That's because he was free at the end of the month. And that support, you know, it doesn't have to be large. It doesn't have to be, you know, a big expression of, I don't know, love or big gifts. It's not, it's about giving space. It's about giving freedom. It's about appreciation. And I find this one thing really helpful. I always think about when, you know, he's busy or he's having a crazy day, which he does for me as well, which is amazing and everyone can follow this and it's super easy, is to think about how can I make that person's day easier?
Sheesha and Nia Whelan discuss taking care of themselves by giving time to each other (01:54:11)
Just like, and that's such a lovely, loving thing. Just sometimes I'm, you know, back to back, especially when I was doing promo, I was doing like 20 interviews and suddenly there'd be like a really nice cocktail that would come in in the evening or suddenly there'd be a really nice like cup of coffee or, you know, something to eat for me that would come in. And it's just like so sweet to think about that. Or if I'm sitting outside, you know, you'll bring a blanket and put it, it's just being thoughtful and aware about your person. And, you know, that's the greatest form of love is showing it without really asking for it. - Yeah, that's such a great piece of advice. I love that. To be, you said to be thoughtfully aware. And I think that's so true. And the beautiful thing about everything you just said is that it's free, it's cheap, it's small, it's simple, it's accessible. - And it's the best gift. - Yeah, and it's the best gift. Yeah, when you feel like someone's in tune with you and your emotions and how you feel, how you might be tired or how you might be sleepy or how you might be cold, like those small things when you feel someone's aware. And I love that piece of advice. I think it's something that everyone's definitely learned more about in the pandemic where we're exposed to each other. - Tell me a bit about the title "Unfinished" because obviously it leads to your determined, ambitious voice, but what other parts of your growth, maybe internally, personally, do you feel you're unfinished on or working on?
Sheesha is unfinished in raising her career in both Acting and Producing (01:55:42)
- I mean, so much. I've just about, you know, in my 30s and this decade has been amazing because I've just, you know, found my strength, I think, as a woman. And what I'm looking forward to going forward is I'm very nascent in my career in America right now. It's just been five years since I've started working here. I just about have done my first, you know, leading feature film. I've just about done my first dramatic part here. I wanna be able to build, you know, the kind of career that I had the good fortune of building in another amazing industry in India. I've done such a variety of roles there, worked with the best filmmakers, best actors. I wanna be able to have that experience here. So like my artistic side now that I've started on this journey in this part of the world is peaked to be able to do that as well. As a producer, I wanna be able to create a lot more South Asian content in Hollywood. I just, I didn't see enough parts for myself. I didn't see enough of it on TV and considering how large the South Asian population is in around the world and how English speaking we are, you know, English language entertainment should be reflecting that. So I wanna be able to tell stories in India as well. And as here, I wanna build as an entrepreneur.
the South Asian dream (01:57:30)
It's something I didn't do, you know, up until now 'cause I was building my acting career so much. So, you know, founding my own brand, investing in tech. I find that really fascinating. My philanthropy, I wanna be able to set up my foundation really well, my work with UNICEF. I've just about moved into our new house after almost 10 to 15 years of living in rentals or hotel rooms, you know, 'cause I always just kept moving. I was so nomadic. I'm looking forward to, you know, watching the trees grow in my garden. - I love that. Watching trees grow is great. I love that. That's brilliant. Hearing you say that, I love hearing you talk about the South Asian storytelling. Like obviously that relates very strongly to me and my roots growing up in London as well, where I think we have an incredibly strong South Asian community where you are right now, where I was born and raised. And I definitely felt this, yeah, lack of representation, lack of the ability to dream. - Lack of opportunity. - Lack of opportunity to dream in a certain way. And, you know, my career has been totally random, but it's, and you know, I'm doing something today that I would never have imagined even knowing it existed. - But see, even that, you and I, two South Asians sitting in these boxes and talking about the fact that the careers that we are thriving in, that we have worked so hard to make, was never in our minds, was never a possibility. But I would have never dreamed about it 'cause it wasn't in my realm of dreaming, but that's not how it should be. Considering the, we're 1/5 of the world's population. We're huge, we're everywhere, okay? And I think, and it shouldn't be so hard for me to, you know, come into an industry and say, I want an opportunity. And for people to be like, oh, well, we're gonna have to create that now, won't we? We've existed for a really long time. You know, it's the irony of it is so amusing, but sad at the same time. - Yeah, no, that resonates very strongly with me because I didn't even know any careers existed. And when I say this, I don't say it lightly. I genuinely didn't believe careers existed outside of medicine, engineering and business. Like I didn't really know. - Me neither. - I didn't know that you could have a successful career in anything else. - Me neither, at 17 when I was, it was a fluke why I got into the Miss India pageant and that kind of kick started everything for me. But I wanted to be an engineer because those were the options, doctor, engineer, lawyer. And if you come from an academic family of, or failure, if you come from an academic family or, you know, our parents, our immigrants and our parents, like my parents, even in India were, you know, building their businesses for the first time, it wasn't inherited from them. So they also were surviving. And I think it's that survival instinct that sort of pushed them to put the aspirations that they knew best, you know, on their kids. Like, this is the best job, you'll always make money, you will be stable. - Yes. - You know? But also the internet sort of changed our, I think our generation. The fact that the internet made the world such a small place, which is another big reason why we should see so much more representation is because we are catering to the whole world now. - What was different about your ability to break out? And I'm not saying, and I, you know, you're not an egotistic person, I'm not asking you to be egotistic, I'm asking you to share lessons. What was different in that you were able to break out and do something that now you're more aligned with who you want to be as the future moves on versus the people that don't make that step?
chasing your purpose (02:01:31)
What is the difference? - I think it was abandoning any connection to practicality and really living in faith. It really tested my faith. The reason I was able to do it is because, and this is with Julie's help, was because I embraced the fact that it was a spiritual journey fundamentally. So yes, I left being a lawyer and I became this ultra endurance athlete and author and podcaster, but it wasn't because when I was a lawyer, I got out my whiteboard and created a wish list or basically tried to create, this is my dream scenario for my life, I just started engaging in what I felt was more aligned with my unique blueprint. And with that, I would start pulling on the threads that would appear every day and I was tested. It was very difficult. We went through incredible financial dismantling, like I was tested in every regard you can imagine. People saying I was crazy, all of it, right? But by having faith and trusting in that sense of what was right for myself and learning to listen to and rely on that instinctual voice, I think taught me a lot about who I am and also about resolve. And ultimately, I think that's why I was able to see it through. So if you look on the internet, it kind of looks like it all happened like this. Like overnight, I just made this decision and became this other thing. This was like, I mean, I've been doing this for 15 years at this point and I got sober at 31. And that really began when I went to rehab at age 31 and started to reconfigure my life based on spiritual principles. And here I am 22, 23 years later, still learning, still growing, still making mistakes. So it's very much not an overnight thing and it's all a spiritual journey. - And what is your faith in at that time? Because it's almost like most people, when they're in that transition, it's like you don't really have faith in yourself or you may not have faith in your skills. Is your faith in the belief that doing the right thing is the right thing either way, or is your faith in the fact that you have your wife who's supportive? Like what is that faith in? Because I feel like that's the hardest thing for people. And I can only speak for myself that I knew that my faith was in the guidance of my teachers, my faith was in the books that I'd read and the philosophy I believed in. And my faith was in, there's a beautiful, beautiful verse in a text called the Manu Smiti, which says that if you protect your purpose, your purpose protects you. And that was what my faith was in was that statement. And I was like, I'm gonna test that statement to its limits.
Unfolding Identity And Empowerment
Crafting our purpose (02:04:19)
- But that statement requires that you understand what your purpose is. - Correct, yes. - And I very much did not know what my purpose was. - That's what I'm saying, so what was your faith in? - Well, first of all, I will say that I was on a journey to discover what that purpose was. And I had a fundamental belief that I did have a, that there is or was a purpose for me to discover. And I used endurance training as a vehicle for that process of self discovery. Because there's something about being out on a trail for hours and hours and hours around an eight hour bike ride. You're stripped of all artifice and the kind of low grade suffering that you experience forces you to confront yourself in a very honest way, right? And you meet yourself in a place that you're not used to. And there's a lack of artificiality and artifice in that place where you can be really honest. Like you're wrestling with your soul at the most profound level, I think. And that's what attracted me to this world. And that's what helped me answer all of these questions, getting comfortable in that crucible. But if I had to say, what is the philosophical belief that kind of underpins that? I would say that we are here to grow and we are here to, on a journey of greater self actualization. And the closer we can approximate that place of self actualization, the better position we are in to express our unique blueprint and purpose in service to other human beings, right? And for me, it's been a process of trying to uncover what that is for me, and then ultimately bring greater expression to that for the betterment of other people. What does it feel like right now that it is for you compared to when you first started on this path? Where's the evolution of that? Yeah, well, it's interesting because for a long time, I was like, oh, you're the vegan ultra endurance athlete guy. And it's like, yeah, I am. And I did those things, but that's just one expression of who I am. And the podcast, much like your show, has been about trying to continue that growth and to understand that I was able to do those things in the endurance world because I understood that we are all sitting on top of gigantic reservoirs of human potential that remain untapped. And I was able to tap into that aspect of myself in an athletic context and express that. But there are all these other areas of untapped potential in my life and in my friends, people that I meet, everybody's life, right? And I wanted to continue that growth curve and that learning process of tapping into those other areas, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, intellectually, socially, every aspect of what it means to be as self-actualized as we possibly can. - And what do we do? You've mentioned that a few times now. It's interesting that when you achieve something, your identity becomes crafted around it. So it's almost like, you're the healthy vegan dude.
Deconstructing our identity (02:07:11)
And I can see that there's a part of you that, almost there's a part of you that's like, but that's not all of me. And I'm more than that. - Yeah, I don't wanna be defined by that marker. - How do you process that? Because I think a lot of people struggle with that, whether it's their past failures or their past successes that start to define everything about who they attract in their life, who they spend time with, what opportunities they come their way. I mean, I'll give an example of something that's coming to my mind right now is when we had Kobe Bryant on the show and Kobe started to talk about how like, and this was huge for me. He was saying, basically no one believed that he could make TV or movies or media because he was a basketball player. They're like, what do you know about this space? And so when he was trying to sell these shows, no one wanted to buy them. And that's why he had to build his own studio. And that's where he was building the studio for "Dear Basketball" and he was writing these novels and these books that were then being turned into movies and TV shows and podcasts. So even someone like him was totally being pigeonholed and defined. How do you process that for yourself? And how do you help other people process anyone who feels limited by their past failures, but also limited by their past successes? - Well, a couple things. First of all, that identity or whatever it is that's looming out there is just a story. It's only as powerful as you allow it to be, right? You always have control over that narrative or how strongly you want to be reminded of a certain identity. You can always recraft that. You only have control over your own behaviors and your own thoughts and your own interactions with other human beings. You can't control how other people perceive you. That's none of your business. So if you're unhappy with the story that's being told about you, all you can do is act in contravention of that. You can't control how other people perceive that, but you can control the story you tell yourself about who you are. So it's about becoming, you hear the adage of like, be the movie star in your own movie, the movie of your life, right? And understand that at any given moment, that these stories are just, they're drawn out of thin air.
Stop seeking total certainty (02:09:16)
They're not real. This is a projection that comes from a collective imagination. So change the story if you don't like it. And if you don't like the story that other people are telling about you, you can mute that and just do your own thing. So when I didn't want to be pigeonholed as the vegan athlete, I just started a podcast and started talking about other stuff. And then seven years later, that's still a thing, but I'm known for other things now. People will fall into line with based upon your behavior and your actions. - Yeah, with your identity the way it is right now, what are you most excited to not be known for, but be acknowledged for what you're doing, like for yourself, not from other people, not for their external validation, but what are you most excited about doing for yourself? - Just continuing to learn.
When displaying humanity, safety, security, stability (02:10:08)
I want to be a lifelong learner. And I think that growth curve always exists. And there's always people out there that you can take valid information and tools from to improve your life. So I don't spend a lot of time thinking about how I want to be perceived. - No, of course. - But I think that, and people ask me all, like, oh, what's the vision? Where do you see yourself in five? It's like, I don't think about that. Like I'm so fulfilled in doing what I'm doing right now. And the fact that I get to be on this personal growth trajectory by having amazing conversations with incredible human beings. And then you get to share that with other people and it impacts them. I mean, I don't know about you, but I can't think of anything more gratifying any kind of career trajectory that would be more gratifying than that. - What's the most interesting thing you learned recently, whether it was a skill or a technique or a fact or a stat or some research that blew your mind or some experience that just really changed the way you were thinking about something? - I'd probably go back to Kamal Ravikant, like him and his simple practices of learning how to love himself. Like he walked me through these experiences where he really hit rock bottom emotionally in a couple of different ways throughout his life and how these very basic, simple, easy to apply practices have transformed how he sees the world and experiences the world, I think is really profound because of its sheer simplicity and power. - Do you think based on that, what you just said now, humans only change through pain? - I get that a lot. I mean, pain is the best motivator for change, obviously. And I think the biggest changes that I've made in my life have really been forged through pain. - Does that mean? - I'm stubborn. Like I don't want, I'm not gonna change until, my whole world is falling on top of me and then, oh yeah, okay, I guess I need to modify that. But it is amazing how human beings are wired that way because the possibility of change exists in every moment. And yet we seem incapable or challenged in our ability to leverage that unless we're being pressured by some external force to do so. - If someone's listening or watching right now but is feeling like they're a safety, secure, stability motivated individual, they're like, oh, that's just too much risk for me. It's like even the spiritual faith, everything you guys are talking about, that's just to live in that uncertainty, to live with that much faith, to push to that degree.
on why we unknowingly detract from our true potential (02:12:37)
What are your advice for them? What would you say to that kind of thing? - Well, I would say that security is an illusion. I think people that are focused on security have control issues. They think that they can control the world outside of themselves and their own behavior. And I think that that is a vast illusion that is an epidemic in our culture. I think in every moment we have this sense of, I'm good, things are static, like I can just stay in this place. And the truth is with every breath, with every thought that we entertain, with every word that comes out of our mouth, we're either growing as an individual or we are regressing. That's the truth, right? And there is no security, everything is a risk. We're here for a very short period of time. So my call to action to everybody is, don't wait until you find yourself in some existential crisis because you've been living your life based upon some social rule book that doesn't fit your own blueprint. Instead, embrace what is uniquely you and have the courage and the fortitude and the faith to try to bring expression to that. It may be scary and it might contravene what your parents want for you and it might seem risky, but ultimately, I think the riskiest thing to do is to play it safe and live your life in accordance with somebody else's expectations of what you should do and be. - How did you know that you'd found something about yourself that was uniquely you? You've said that a few times now, uniquely you. How do you know when something is uniquely you? Because I feel like so many of us are either so influenced by everything that's happening or we just, I feel like we've lost our ability to talk to ourselves and know that that's our voice. - Yeah. - Right? Like it's like most people, when you hear a voice, they hear a voice in their head. They don't know if that's them or something else and they can't tell the difference. So what are those indicators or signals where you're like, yeah, that, I'm getting closer, even if I'm not there. - It's a really good question and I don't have like a simple pithy answer. - Sure, sure, sure. - I think it's hard. I think you're correct in that we're so distracted. Our phones are always in our hands. There's always a reason to not be present with ourselves. And the more detached we become, the more difficult it is to know what that internal voice is. So I think the process of trying to understand what is uniquely, what is unique about Jay involves that looking inward process, right? It's about meditation and mindfulness and getting quiet and trying to spend time contemplating like what was it that made you happy as a kid? Like what did you like to do when you were left to your own devices that now you feel like you haven't done in a long time or would be foolish as an adult to spend time doing? And maybe there's a lesson there for you to see. I don't know, I can't answer that for you, but I know that those answers reside within all of us.
Power of Being Alone (02:15:41)
And in order to heed them or get clarity, you really have to have the discipline to carve out that kind of quiet time solitude with yourself. What's the best advice you've received in solitude on the podcast? Is there anyone you remember that kind of you just felt embodied solitude the best or that kind of quiet or that? Yeah, I mean, there's been a couple of people, of course you have like meditation masters like Sharon Salzberg. I think maybe the most profound though and in the most grounded way was you've all know Harari. Yeah, love you. Basically talking about how like clarity is a superpower. And now because we're so distracted, distraction is our natural disposition to just be clear and quiet, to have presence of mind, to have clarity about what you think about a particular thing is a superpower where that used to just be normal, right? Which kind of makes it easier to distinguish yourself because all you have to do is put the phone away, learn how to be quiet, learn how to connect with your internal voice. And that makes you much more capable than the person sitting next to you.
Individuality And Open-Mindedness
Keep an Open Mind (02:16:43)
What was the conversation that surprised you the most? Was there anyone that not blew your mind but just surprised you with a belief that maybe something you held true, but when you spoke to them, they changed your mind on it. Was there anyone like that that changed your mind on something that you thought was very concrete in your life or? - I'm always fascinated by our beliefs and how they can shift. Like I've always considered myself to be someone who, it's like, I felt like when I was spiritually immature, I felt like I had my beliefs and they were the answers and then nothing else was true. What I believed was true and anyone else's answers were completely false. And then as I started to grow more, you start to realize you know nothing and you're like, okay, I don't know anything now because I'm not really sure about any of these beliefs. And then you get to a point where it's like, well, I have some values and beliefs, they work for me and now I'm willing to trade and upgrade based on what I'm exposed to, because now I learned that I need to have a map or a guidebook or a rule book that works because you need that for life. But then I hear someone say something and I'm like, oh, like that has just opened up my mind in a completely different way. - I think in addition to that, what happens when you're confronted with a truth that contravenes your worldview?
Life is Uniquely Individual (02:17:54)
The first thing that it does is it pushes that cognitive bias button and you're like, that can't be right because this is the way I see the world, right? So you feel the resistance coming up. So for you to say, oh wow, I didn't think of it that way and to embrace that difference of opinion or perspective, I think is the healthiest thing to do. So for me, it's less about, oh, here's an example and more about trying to be in that place of empathy and compassion and openness and to notice when I feel like my resistance creeping up, whether it's somebody who has a different nutritional or dietary perspective than I do or somebody who was able to get sober and maintain their sobriety by way of a protocol that is at odds with like how I think it should be done, you know what I mean? And to just be like, the world's a big place. The human condition is multivariate. I don't have all the answers and to be able to sit with somebody who's coming from a different perspective and try to find mutual ground and meet them where they're at with compassion and with empathy, I think is really powerful. It's something that I'm always endeavoring to do with whatever guests that I have on my show. And I think it's what's sorely lacking in our culture right now.
Culture And Compassionate Empathy
Compassionate Empathy Marathon - How Our Culture Rejects Divide And Unity. (02:19:22)
And I think if there's anything that I'm trying to do with my show and the example that I set with how I conduct my conversations is to say, look, if we wanna move forward as a healthy culture, as a healthy society, we have to be able to meet each other in our differences with compassion, with understanding. That doesn't mean that we do it with unhealthy boundaries, but we have to be able to have mature conversations about our differences because this polarization and the separation that we're seeing and the unhealthy siloing of opinions, I think is really polluting and denigrating our ability to move forward as a healthy society and is deeply concerning to me. - Yeah, I'm so with you on that. I think that's a great answer because yeah, that lack of judgment and openness and just stopping yourself from, like you said, letting your controls creep in, that's probably the hardest thing because you've been on a train of thought or a school of thought since you were a kid and it's built and built and built and it's got you to somewhere, which is probably okay. And then all of a sudden someone comes and just surprises you with a note. What's been the best way you've found, apart from having conversation on the podcast, have you found that people are able to create their openness in their own lives? Is it more travel? Is it watching things that you wouldn't watch? Have you seen that? How can we encourage that more for people to be okay with exposing themselves to opposing ideas without placing judgment on them? - Yeah, it's tough. I mean, I think travel is a big one, right? Investing in experience. People who have done that tend to have broader views and perspectives and more open-minded about a variety of issues than people who just stay in one place and have their newsfeed. - Yeah, and even who they follow on their newsfeed because that again, if it's diverse, you're again meeting diverse people there too, right? - Yeah. - Thank you so much for watching that video. If you enjoyed it, here's another one I think you'll love. Go in there, go into the suffering. Go into the pain of your life and say, why did this suck for me so bad? Why am I afraid of all this stuff? 'Cause the only way you're gonna fix yourself is to go all the way back.