David Goggins Will Change Your Life | Rich Roll Podcast | Transcription

Transcription for the video titled "David Goggins Will Change Your Life | Rich Roll Podcast".

David Goggins Will Change Your Life | Rich Roll Podcast | Transcription

Introduction

Introduction (00:24)

Alright, let's do it. Let's do it man. Man! Fucking gaga. [Laughter] That is like the refrain throughout the audiobook man. Stolenic popping in with just like after every chapter like, "Man! Goggin! What the fuck?" I mean I thought I knew the story. Right. And I know a lot of it. Right. There's just so much more there man. So much more man. Unbelievable. It's all surface man. I only had an hour to talk to people in the podcast. You gotta get the surface version. The book goes deep, dark into the sewer. Yeah. It tells you everything. It's an incredible accomplishment. It's such an unbelievable document. It's gonna inspire and catalyze a lot of growth in a lot of people man.


Understanding Identity and Vulnerability

Self-Publishing Success (01:09)

So first off, like congratulations on getting this thing done. Thank you. It's a small thing. No sir. And what's amazing about it, before we even get into the content of it, is that you made this decision to self publish this book. Yes sir. Right now it's at like number two or number three on Amazon of all books. Right. Right. That just doesn't happen with a self published book. And you've been able to do this without any mainstream media whatsoever. Like I did a Google search this morning. I wanted to see any hits that you had like in the last week or in the last day. Right. You're not on the Today Show. You're not on the morning of America. You didn't do any of that man. No man. That's a little self propelled DIY. And to go from you know that place to the very top like selling the number of books that you're selling like right out of the gate is just insane. Right. There's got to be a lot of people in publishing looking at that going, what is going on here. Well that's been the story of my life. I see something that's that's quite off quite not the same. And that's what I go for. This book is exactly who I am as a person. Exactly the way I did this book is how I've done my almost my entire life. Is I see what is not the norm. What's impossible with, you know, what all the theorists say you shouldn't be doing this. That's the wrong way to go. And I'm like, hmm. Let me see if I can pull this shit off. Yeah. Let me go over here. I mean, I can pull this shit off. Was that part of the challenge, the decision? I mean, it seems to me that the decision to self publish was generated more by a desire to really, you know, own your story. That was, that's it 100%. There was no driven message with me trying to prove people wrong or whatever. It was 100% by me wanting to own my life. There's a lot of people I know that that I speak with right now that have nice book deals out there and the people who buy their book, we're in a publishing house. They can't even talk some of this stuff, you know, like, like in speaking engagements. And I'm like, what, you can't even talk your story and somebody's like, no, like I got to make sure that they're aware of it. No, I'm like, no, man. I want to own 100% of the suffering I went through in my life. I don't want anybody telling me, Hey, Gog, you can't say this. I will lose my shit. What you what I suffered this, this badly and you, you're going to fucking tell me I can't say this. There have been all kinds of problems with that one. So I made sure that I want to own all of can't hurt me and own all of my own life story. So that's what it really is all about.


Owning Your Story (03:49)

Well, you really have ownership not only of your own story, but your ability to tell it. Right.


Disappearing Act (03:55)

And you know, as somebody who's like a member of the ultra community, you know, I remember and I think we talked about this last time, you kind of disappeared for a couple of years there from around like, I don't know what it was like 2009, 2010, 2013. Yeah, doesn't it had like a website in a blog that would get updated once in a while. And I would check in and try to see what you were up to. And you just went totally dark.


Introversion (04:19)

I'm a ghost man. Yeah. And I didn't know about the heart stuff. There was something about like, Oh, there's a health thing that you're dealing with. Right. And I thought, Oh, this guy's just disappeared. Right. But you were that was the recruiting era, right? Where you were just on the road telling your story and putting in the reps on how to tell your story. So it was the recruiting era for me when I started becoming like the, the, the Navy seals needed more blacks in, in the still teams. And that's a bit of an understanding. Like, you know, why is it becoming recruiter in the still teams? I was one of the few black guys, you know, and I, and I had already done bad water. So I got a little bit, you know, small bit of notoriety for doing bad water. And so the Navy seals like, Oh my God, you know, like we could use this guy to try to get the 1% of the African Americans and Navy seals up to maybe 2%. And so I hit the road, started doing that. But I also hate, I'm not a big guy on social media. So I was actually happy to kind of pull away from it. You know, I'm just not big on that stuff. Even today, I'm just not a big fan of it. Man, I'm a big introvert. I get a lot of my strength from being introverted and I'm going out there and doing what I do is very, all this is very difficult for me, man. Oh, yeah. It's funny when you say you're introverted because you're so good, you know, when it comes to sharing your story and it's so compelling and, you know, there's a lot of people out there like quote, they'll quote, unquote, like influencers or whatever. It'd be like, wow, like this guy's got, I don't know what do you have, like 600,000 plus on Instagram or something like that. Yeah. And for somebody who's you're averse to it, you don't like it. You hate it. You only post once in a while. You don't really advertise what you're doing at all. But you've grown this huge following of people who are super interested in what you're doing.


Sharing Vulnerability (06:05)

Well, I think it's important to do things you don't like. I was very ashamed of my life story for a long time. I didn't want to go out until anybody should about me. So that's why I had two people. I, you know, I created one David Goggins and one Goggins. And I didn't want people to know that I had all these issues. But after a while, people started to give you these different taglines, you know, like you're superhuman. You're amazing. You're like, you fuckers don't know anything about me, man. I'm this insecure kid. I started realizing there's a lot of people out here who are going through a lot of problems that I once tapped into. You know, I had a whole bunch of issues growing up. And you know, I felt compelled to this. You know what? You got to start sharing this stuff, man, because people see where you're at today. They see where you're at today. They see the man you are today, this hard rock, hard human being. Show these people where you come from, right? Show these people as possible. It's funny when you're reading the book, like once you get into the later chapters, like six, seven or eight, you know, all the way to the end, you start to forget chapters one and two. That's right. And you start thinking this guy is a superhuman and then you got to remind yourself like, oh man, look where he came from. Right. I actually do it in the audio book. In the audio book, well, while Adam was reading, we have a moment where we stop because I don't relax six or seven, you know, six, seven, eight, where I start doing all these crazy feats and start going way beyond human limits for myself. And I tell people, while you're hearing this, I know you guys have already forgotten about how I came up. Don't forget the torture I endured mentally and physically in my own mind going through all this shit. So don't don't ever forget that. So people forget that so quickly when they get to that seven, eight, nine, ten chapters. So it's, it's, it's quick. The, we should just mention the audio book. I mean, the book is amazing, but the audio book is next level. And part of that is because you guys kind of broke the paradigm here. You made this somewhat risky decision to have Adam read most of the book and we can get into the reasons behind that, which I think are well considered. But then after each chapter, you and Adam break it down podcast style like informally where you just freestyle on that chapter was all about. And that just brings, brings it to life in like this technical way, which makes it just a such a compelling experience. Well, everything I do, I, I try to do my very best. And now that I'm out here trying to share this story with people, I want to be so real and so fucking authentic to the point where it was embarrassing to me. As I was writing some stuff and I was giving it to Adam and we were going back and forth and like, man, I'll talk to my fiance. Do I really want people to fucking know this about me? But that's the power, man. And that's the strength that you have to summon to be that vulnerable because that's how people are going to be able to emotionally connect. Exactly. When they look at what you've done in bad water and all the buds and all that kind of stuff, it becomes difficult for people to relate to that. Right. But when you have the strength and the fortitude to share those parts of your life that do embarrass you or provoke shame in you, that's the, that's the, like, that's the real shit.


Showing Humanity (09:15)

I had to show people I was human. You know, people didn't think I was human. I thought I came from outer space, man, from some spacecrafts and shit and landed down here and just formed goggins from the rocks and the soil of the earth. No, it's not how it is, man. So I just said, I want to, I want to share a secret with you all. Well, in one of the recaps you tell Adam writing this book was the hardest thing you've ever done. And as somebody who's done a lot of hard shit, that was a surprising thing to hear.


Creating a Character (09:43)

Well, looking in the mirror at yourself, because I did a really good job by creating this guy in now. So I could just go by and just live by this guy here. This is who I am. Do you think of it as like this, because you refer to yourself in the third person all the time? Always. So it's like this character that you're trying to aspire to be. Right. That's distinct from you. Like you, you, you create this, like, division. How does that work?


Separating Identity (10:07)

It's a big division because I, when I talk to people, like I see where I'm at today, but I know where I come from and it's kind of hard, almost separate that I'm almost not in a way I'm kissing my own ass, but I'm amazed that what a human being can actually do. So when I start talking to myself in the third person, it's strictly because I know that I literally made this human being out of a, out of this, like a whole bunch of scraps. And I wasn't, you know, I wasn't a mechanic. I wasn't a carpenter. I didn't know how to do any of this shit. You know, I wasn't trained in how to build a human being from nothing. You know, like my mom didn't train me, my dad didn't train me, life didn't train me. Well, life did train me. Life did train me correction. And I started putting this scrap metal together. I'm like, I want to what the fuck's going to happen.


Building a Human Being (10:58)

You know, the first year I try to do is all fucked up.


Learning through Pain and Suffering (11:01)

And after a while, I started learning more and more and more through pain and suffering, started learning, just learning so much about stuff before I knew it, man. I built this beautiful car and I'm like, how the fuck did I do that? And I knew how, and I know how to do it because I have all the tools through all the failure I went through trying to build this person who's goggins. Yeah.


Reframing Vulnerability as Strength (11:21)

And that was something that came across loud and clear, which is it's not like you develop this toolbox and then everything worked out. No, it's like there's so many ups and downs and highs and lows and you're constantly getting knocked down again. A lot of the home depot shopping for that toolbox brother. Yeah. And the real gift that's built into this whole thing is how you reframe vulnerability. We tend to think of vulnerability as a weakness or somebody who's soft and you embody it in a completely different structure to show people that it is strength. Like if you want to be hard and you want to be strong, vulnerability and open-mindedness are the keys to that kingdom. And you said it perfectly there.


Self-Reflection and Acceptance (12:10)

The one thing that made me who I'm today is being vulnerable. It's breaking myself down to the absolute rock bottom and being able to tell people who I am. And that's how I fixed it. Literally, you know, it looks in my eyes. You know what, man? I have a whole bunch of character problems, character flaws. I've lied about this. I've cheated here. I'm insecure here. This isn't the real me. I lied to you about that. I wanted your acceptance in life. All those things happen. But the thing about it is that we get judged so quickly by who we are. We don't know. We don't go to where it happened. You know, life created this person, me. Life created me to be this fucked up person I was back in the day. And I had to realize, man, that's okay, man. It's not my fault. Now I'm going to go back and fix this shit, though. So a lot of this isn't your fault why you do some things you do, why you feel the way you feel. But no one's coming back to save your ass. You have to go back to where the shit started, wherever that place is for everybody. And have the courage to go back there and start fixing what broke you. And that's, and that's my, I was like, hey, I'm fucked up. I'm going to go back and fix this, though. You got to be honest with yourself. How much is it percent where you're at? How much is it percent? People don't like that. Oh, it's ugly. Yeah.


Insights into Goggins' Background and Reactions to Growth

Negative Reactions to Personal Growth (13:29)

And what's funny about it is that as you're trying to fix yourself and dig yourself out of this deep hole that life society and you helped, you helped also, those people who you saw down there in that hole who were there with you, who were your friends and people who you counted on, because you meet the people in the same situation that you're in in life. Those people become your friends. And second, you try to get out of that situation and become better. Those people are in that, in that grave, in that dungeness, yank, in that, your heels, man. Say, get the fuck back. Oh, no, get, no, come on back here motherfucker. Yeah. You ain't going to make me feel like shit. Right. I think you are. So I get it all the time now. People would constantly remind me of who I used to be back in the day. And they always come out of the woodworks man versus my, my, you know what, when you come from a small, small town and you come from a place that a lot of people don't want to come out of it and get out of it and all you want to do is become somebody. When you have small town mentality is a real mentality. You got to be able to get out and let your mind see open mindedness. Because a small town, what it does to you is it closes your mind, completely closes your mind out of everybody. This isn't everybody. A lot of people, you have to be able to go out there and create open mindedness. You need space. You need space to see the world like a lot of racism, a lot of, a lot of ignorance in the world. It comes from people not being out and seeing other things, seeing other people, seeing all kinds of shit. That's why we judge so harshly because our minds are so close to the reality of life. Period. Have you been back to Brazil?


Changing Perspective through Growth (15:06)

I went back to Brazil a couple of times and I have nothing wrong with Brazil because once again, you can't, another thing about growth is you can't hold on to hate. You can't hold on to hate and see what, once you take a different step, so I didn't take a step out of my life because like, you know, like once you're in that hell, that's all you see is what's in front of you. When I stepped out of it, I saw Brazil very differently. There were a lot of great people in Brazil. Some of the best people I knew were from Brazil. But when you're in hell, all you see is a little patch in front of you of the kids that are calling you nigger, of the people that spray painted nigger, we're going to kill you on your car. People put that shit in your locker, people put that shit on your notebook in Spanish class. That's all you see. You didn't see that. My God, a lot of people fucking like me here. So once you take a step back and see the reality of the true ignorance that you're dealing with from a small group of people, that's when you get growth. Because, you know, I went through a phrase in the book, I talked about, man, I was all about, you know, I was all about black and only black. When I was a junior in high school, I was so beat down. I was the most ignorant I've ever been in my fucking life when I went there. I totally took everything, all the hurt, all the pain, and just put it in one fucking filter. I got to find people who look just like me and act just like me to find acceptance. That when you were doing the crazy haircuts and you took your pants around. Watch the Malcolm X video every damn night when I went home and shit.


David Goggins' Background and Childhood (16:33)

So the last time you were here, we kind of recapped your story chronologically. And I don't want to spend a lot of time on that. But there's a lot of new people listening. So I think it's worthwhile to kind of, you know, catch people up on exactly who is David Goggins and, you know, where you were, where you came from, what you endured and how you arrived at this place. Is there a way to do that concisely? I can do it pretty quick, I guess. You know, I was born in Buffalo.


Challenging Childhood with an Insecure Alcoholic Father (17:00)

My dad was almost skating rink's own bars. And he was a very insecure guy and he was an alcoholic. He used to get women for favors. So my dad, I'm not saying he's a pimp. I always say he's a pimp because that's how I look at it. My mom said the proper way to say this is that your dad used to get women and he would exchange women for favors. So there you go. That's pretty much it. He was a pimp. Right. He was a fucking pimp. So basically, that's my dad. He was, he was a guy that didn't care much about anything but himself. But he was kind of a baller in your community, right?


Contrasting Public Image with Private Life (17:35)

He was a big baller. New OJ Simpson, big time, all the Buffalo Bills and him and Rick James were best friends. So we had two different sides. It was the side that everybody saw which was the side of this, man, your dad is so damn cool, man. He's awesome. And we lived on Paradise Road. The second that door was shut in that house, it was game on. The real hymn would come out. It was a perfect Jekyll and Hyde.


Psychological Warfare and Physical Abuse (17:58)

So when you're born into that at a young kids and like you're getting beat for no reason. You know, like, you know, I'm not weapons or weapons, man. But this guy would beat you for no reason just because he was drunk just because he saw you, he would ever. It's like kind of like an Ike Turner character. Ike Turner probably on steroids. So that's who he was. And he was a perfect person for psychological warfare. The beatings were horrible, but the mind torture was the worst. He got so deep in my head as a young kid and that really fucks up your foundation. You know, when you're born, man, there's some sensitive years in there, man, where your brain starts to develop and starts to give you self esteem, courage, confidence, all those things. And my dad was stripping that away from everybody. And when you see your mom, the worst thing to do is when you see your mom getting beat senseless at a young kid, that shit scars you permanently. I mean, she was like a prisoner. She was a prisoner. And what you guys had to do to escape and get away from him is like insane.


Experiences Leading to an Interest in the Military

Struggle to Escape an Abusive Relationship (19:01)

So she was 19 when she went there and she was an innocent 19 year old and she came from a great family. And she met this man and totally just, it was brutal. It was very sedicted the way she was tortured by him and the way my brother and myself were in that. And that broke me, my brother up. My brother loved my father a lot. He saw something very different than I saw because whenever my mom and I would get beat, my brother, I'm not calling him a coward by any means. He handled it very different than I did. He would go in his room. He didn't want to see the beatings. I would protect my mother. So in that I saw a lot more of the violence. I was trying to protect her and me trying to protect her, I really got beat. So when you're constantly in that battle and that struggle and your brother's going in a different room because he didn't want any part of this shit, he hated it and he loved family. You know, he loves family and I became the person like, Hey man, I'm not about it. And you had to shoulder the responsibility.


Taking Responsibility for Family (20:02)

This idea within you that you were responsible for making sure that your mom would be safe. And that was hard for eight year old kid because when we moved to that small town of Brazil, Indiana, I had to learn disability. I was stuttering. I was battling so much shit that I never even told my mom about because she was battling her own demons. So at eight years old, I'm looking for comfort and I'm like, Hey, don't bother your mom with shit. You would have the man in the house. I started becoming real protective of my mother at a young age. So I whenever you're going through man, you're on your fucking own. You're not going to, you're not going to tell your mom shit. And she didn't find out later through the school systems and through me failing and through me, you know, all these issues I went through. She found out a lot, but you know, I kept as much as I could from her man. And that really was a hard task for me to raise yourself mentally when you're already in the deepest, darkest dungeon of all time. And I think that's where I started really creating myself. I had to really start creating a certain pattern, a certain process, a certain kind of indestructible toolbox to handle my life.


Early Fascination with the Military (21:07)

Well, you were on this trajectory to know where pretty quick, but the kind of inciting incident that starts to shift your trajectory is this Air Force guy that comes into your life, right? Like you develop this obsession with the military. And then you meet this dude who survived that parachuting. Right. And you become obsessed with this guy. And that, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems like the first sort of glimmer of hope that you might find your way in a different, in a different, you know, so like I talked about a lot, it was, it started off with the Rocky and Ramble movies. Right. You know, it was kind of like my father's when I was coming up. But then when I finally met this guy named Scott Garren, this guy that fell off it, you know, he had a parachute accident, a guy crashed through his parachute and he fell 13,000 feet pretty much to his death because his parachute collapsed and he was, you know, he fell 120 miles an hour to the ground. I mean, a picture in the book. It's disgusting, right? And so he hit the ground and I met him a couple years later at this, uh, CAP, Silver Air Patrol camp and I'm sitting there and no kid was like amazed by him. You know, it's like, okay, this is a great story. I'm a kid. Let's go. I'm sitting here. He comes out and I was amazed by Ramble like at a young guy like, oh my God, this is the real Ram. He came out, he had, you know, he got his throat cut open to, you know, open up his airway. So I saw he got tricked and I saw all these different things. I was like, my guy, he came out talking all like Clint Eastwood and he shared a story and it's all hardcore. I started falling this guy, but he knows I was falling. So for a week long, he did pushups and flutter kicks. And I was like, Matt, that is the real Ramble. Why do you think it connected with you and not with the other kids? Like what was it inside of you that was, you know, obviously searching for somebody like that? I was looking for strength my entire life. I was, I didn't have any. I was a, I was a really weak kid. My dad beat the living shit out of me and took every, I was strong as a young kid, but me protecting my mom for so many years in that house. My dad made me very afraid because he beat the shit out of me every time I went at him. So in that I want every man was courage. Every man was strength. At least this one does.


Searching for Strength (23:28)

So I found it in every way possible and when I see a strong guy, I was like, okay, maybe he can teach me. So he didn't know anything about me. So time went on. I left school, you know, and then this guy was in my mind. We had zero money, man. Like at one time we lived in the $7 a month place. Government, sometimes apartments. Now we live in like a $200 place. But at this time I searched, I went on a $500 phone bill and back then do and having no money.


Searching for Scott Garren (23:57)

My mom wanted to kill me. I was in search of Scott Garen. Yeah, no Google. No Google. No, no, no. There's randomly calling up bases. Air Force bases, man. Call up Air Force bases, man. Hey, you know what Scott Garen, we mean. I'm like, who's Scott Garen? I'm like, he's a pair of rescue men. But what? Because you know, a pair of rescue men, you know, there's not a lot of them. So I started getting, okay, there's a PJ base here, a pair of rescue base here. So I started tracking down pair of rescue bases. Finally, Key West Florida. He's a school instructor down there in Key West Florida.


Meeting Scott Garren (24:26)

I leave like a message. He calls back, gets a hold of my mom. I'm like, I cannot believe this guy called me back. My first question to him was, hey, man, can I come stay with you for a week? He's like, who the fuck are you, man? He didn't know who the fuck it was. The guy let me come stay with him for a week. And that was, you were senior in high school?


Turning Point and Initial Challenges

Inspiration to Be Like Scott Garren (24:46)

I was a junior in high school. It was in my junior year, pretty much. It's pretty amazing that he was open to that. He was open to it. I think he said about four words to me in the entire week. We PT together, and I need to hear a word from him. He, you know, he didn't talk a lot. He was an instructor. I would go to school or to school with him. He would instruct. I sit on the couch for 10 hours. Sit in the lounge on the fucking couch for 10 hours. He come back, pick me up. We go for a run. He go home. We ain't fish every fucking day because we had to go out in the ocean. You know, like, like I would go lobster hunting. I hate to fucking water. I scared the death, but this guy went in, so I'm going in. And I left there with just one big thing. That's what I want to be. I want to be a guy like that. Yeah. This desire within you to find like a strong positive male, you know, raw. Raw model. Right. I was looking hard, man. Yeah.


Challenges on the Path (25:44)

But it wasn't easy getting into getting, you know, following that path for you. No, it was, it was a harder thing within my life. Being a pair of rescue men, trying to be a pair of rescue men, there's a lot of things I know about and not having a mentor and not having, you know, Scott was there. He really wasn't, you know, I met him for a week. I saw him maybe a couple of times and I started bucking the shit off him. He was a busy guy. I had a family. So I was back in my home. And I did the best I could and trying to be a pair of rescue men.


Developing Work Ethic (26:11)

I finally passed the ass, vap, test after, you know, taking it several times. And, you know, when you cheat your whole life in high school and elementary school, I had about a fourth grade reading level. So I talked about that a lot in the book and I had to learn so much school in six months. And that's when I really developed my work ethic. People think it's from running and everything. No, it's not from seals and not from running. It was from the countless hours teaching myself how to fucking read and write. You know, we, you know, I had a tutor for one hour, one hour every single week as I could afford. So for six months, I saw a two to one hour a week. All the rest was on me. My mom was working three jobs. She was never home. I sat at this fucking table. I'm like, I have to get in the military. And that became my assessment. Well, this is the whole book is really about mindset. All of it. That is the whole game. And I would agree that people look at you and they want to talk about bad water and all these races that you've done, you know, eight, one hundred milers and eight weeks and all this insanity. But really, this is all a product of hardening your mind, callusing your mind to use your phrase. And throughout the book, what really, you know, makes it stand out is that there are lessons throughout. Like, this is a book in which it would be easy to think that David Goggins is the hero, but the reader is the hero. Which is why he made this decision to write things we were talking about earlier to have Adam read it because he wanted the reader to see themselves in this own journey. And you have these chapters or after every chapter, you have these challenges and take a ways for people to, you know, use to change their own mindset. But even woven into the narrative, you're breaking away from the story to say, look, this is what you got to do. This is what I did. This is how you do it. Right. It's one of these really is the accountability mirror, right? Which you still use. But what I didn't realize was that you developed that when you were like a junior in high school, you started doing that. But it's not like, oh, I did the accountability mirror and then everything started working out for me. No, I was like, it was a fix it all. No, it was just a starting point to start holding myself accountable. And all that came to be, man, my mom got a letter from school and this is when I had to reveal myself and all my secrets, the secret came out, man, that I wasn't going to school that I had, I had flunked most of my classes. I had my report card in there for everybody to see one of them. And it was reveals enough. And that's enough. Yeah, it was not your profile. Thanks a lot, Rich. I appreciate it. So, yeah, you put it in there. I put it in there, man.


Revealing Secrets (28:49)

You have to talk about it right now. It was a, it was a yes, a very embarrassing report card. And she was like, what is this? And this was like, she didn't see any report cards in my life. And at this time, she was frustrated. Not with me, but with my wife. Well, you had doctored that other report card, right? I doctored so much crap, but she didn't really see that one. But I doctored all my report cards. And this one had to reveal myself and she was like, you know what, man? You're going to flunk out. And that was a conversation. I'm like, hey, we got to do something. You know, you got to fail. She had her own demons, her own problems. And that's when I went into the bathroom. And I was like, my God, dude, like this is a harsh reality. Your mom is like, you're done. I'm like, you are on your own. And the As Fab was really the first real challenge where you tried to show up for something 100%. Right.


A Crossroads Moment (29:39)

That was my first one challenge. And what I love about the book is, you know, there's the grand huge challenges and accomplishments. But what I find most inspiring are just the small little things, like these little details. Like when you're, when you've left that test and then you're in the car and then you go back in. Yeah. So it's like things like that that really touched me. That was my, that was actually trying to be a Navy SEAL. That was a different test. Right. Yeah. So that was a, that was a very emotional moment for me. And I'm actually there right now in my head talking to you. I remember that moment like it was yesterday. I was a fat guy trying to be a Navy SEAL now and my life had come to this crossroads. I'm like, man, you have to go right. And no one was going right. Everybody was going left. I'm like, you have to go right. And to know the pain and suffering I was about to endure by going right, the amount of accountability and failure I'll get to witness and suffer by myself alone on this journey. It was daunting. So when I finally got to the As Fab test and I was taking it for my very last time to get into the SEAL teams or to try to try out. They weren't supposed to tell me my score. And I went back out to my car. I took it. I was on some computer test and I didn't know how to use computer. I was wiggin' out about that shit cause the first time I took it was like some like notebook, you know, you open a scantron sheet and you bubble it in with a number two pencil and shit, you turn it in. I saw a computer and I was like, oh fuck what the shit, what is, oh my God. Like it's on the computer. So I wiggged out there and I had to get a 50 on mechanical comprehension. And I had- This is like the third time you've taken the test, right? This is my second time. So I took it three times for the year for us and twice for the Navy. So this is my second time for the Navy. And they're like, hey this is it man. You know, you're done, you're too old, you have a limited amount of time to lose 106 pounds and you have to take it as bad again. There's so many things that's crushed down in my head. And so when I took the test, I knew I had a good enough score to get into Navy but to be a SEAL had to score high on mechanical comprehension, a 50.


Initial Test Results and Determination (31:46)

So the first time I got a 44 on mechanical comprehension. So I'm sitting there and I take the test and I hit send. Sentiment is out in outer space somewhere. And I knew it popped up at the administrator's desk. And he's not supposed to tell me shit. He tells you sit down, take your test and you leave. I walked out, got my car or I was walking around the car, whatever. I was like, I got going to find out man. So I went in, I literally sat there. Everybody's taking their test and I'm begging this guy. And he's telling me, I can't tell you shit. It's against government, it's against rules, everything. He opened it up and it was okay man. He said, you got a 65. I said, no man, I didn't know I got a mechanical comprehension. And he scrolled the page down and it was exactly a 50. And I literally like what came through my body because it's easy to talk about it now to you but no one knew the time and energy I put into getting that 50. It was pretty amazing. Yeah.


Pursuit of a Career in the Military

The Opportunity for a New Life (32:46)

What did that represent for you? Like the opportunity for a new life to finally get away. It represented opportunity for a new life but the thing about it is I'm trying to be a Navy Seal. At this time I'm still touring somewhere I've had more weight to lose. So think about this, I put everything on David Goggins to be a Navy Seal. It's like going to the crap tape with your last thousand dollars. And you see, you know what, I'm going to put everything on this fucking, on black and hopefully I win if not I'm broke. I put my whole life. A guy that would scare the fucking water, a guy that could fucking tell himself how to read and write on being one of the hardest motherfuckers on the planet. Think about that shit. A guy that came from nothing. I put my whole life and I'm going to go out here and put everything on David fucking Goggins to be a Navy Seal. I'm going to go be a fucking, you know, Boy Scout or some shit on Navy Seal. And I look at that and I did all this shit just to get the opportunity to succeed. That's what people don't fucking understand, man. If people see the end result, I remember that guy saying, my God, man, I can't believe what the fuck I've just done. I put everything, room, relationships, room in this, room in that, put everything on the fact I have to become someone in this world or I'm no good for anybody.


The Drive for Accomplishment (34:11)

Where does that come from? Where did that compose in that drive? It comes from a disgusting place of not being fulfilled in your life. Of afraid of dying, having never accomplished anything. That's a fear that some people run away from, that people don't want to face. You have a real fear of dying and being just another person that I live to pay the bills. I mean, $1,000 a month. This is my life. I spray for cockroaches, man. If that makes you feel good, that's great. It didn't make me feel good. I wanted to the first time in my life after 26 years, 24/25, wherever I was, I wanted to feel good about myself. And that was the ticket for me.


Leveraging Pain for Change (34:59)

Yeah, I mean, you have this huge reservoir, this capacity to leverage pain and circumstance to drive change within yourself. To be able to not be a victim, but to look at pain as your friend as a catalyst for growth. And I think there's a lot of people out there. Look, if you're in enough pain, that's going to move the needle for you. There's a lot of people out there that are in just enough pain where they're willing to just settle for what they have because they're not in enough pain to change. And the fear of change outweighs the pain of their daily existence. You know the one gift I have with all that being said, what you just said there, is I


Visualization and Focused Approach (35:44)

have the ability to see the end before the beginning even begins. And what that means is I know that to get to the very end, I can see it right now. So before I went to Buds and I was losing all this fucking waiting shit, I saw myself walking across the fucking stage at 191 fucking pounds. That's why I had to get to get into the door. I saw myself six months, a year later, whatever's going to take me to do it. I saw myself walking across that stage getting that fucking certificate of graduation from Buds. And I was able to be there at 300 fucking pounds. And that feeling that I was nowhere near that fucking feeling, I was able to put myself there a million times every fucking day and that feeling of like, my God, that is going to feel fucking amazing. That's what made me suffer. That's what allowed the pain to be real and say, this is worth it. I want to feel for this fucking next 18 months, it took me 18 fucking months to find me coming maybe to find me, you know, just get through Buds 18 months, it's six months, it took me 18. That's what woke me up every fucking morning was, I'm going to put myself through this much fucking pain and suffering for a few seconds. So it is a few seconds of joy and so fucking worth it, man. As a people don't get so I'm able to put myself at the finish line, you know I have no finish line, but at the finish line of an event before I even start the motherfucker to say, how are you going to feel it into this? Well, visualization is one of the challenges. And part of that is not just visualizing success or living in the reality of achieving what you're setting out to achieve, but also visualizing how you're going to navigate all the obstacles that are going to get thrown in your path. Right, visualization is my biggest tool of life. That's why I've been able to put myself in cold water, put myself in a hundred mile race, millions of times before I've done it. And I'm able to go through the race and see I'm going to feel it in my own 50. Almost to the exact feeling. Right, so when it comes up, it's no surprise. No surprise, I've already done this in many times. And that's the one thing I practice and practice and practice and practice overnight, but also the most important thing is I practice that feeling of accomplishment that I'm going to have this all sitting down with. The crazy thing about the Asfap story is that in addition to having to pass this test and get that 50, you also had to lose 100 pounds in like, what, like 30 days or something? No, it was less than three months. Right, okay, three months. But you compartmentalize these two tasks and say, look, the first thing I got to do is I got to pass this test because the weight doesn't matter if I don't get that 50 and you shelved or put off losing the weight to focus on the academic end of it until you completed that hurdle and then you looked at the weight stuff. I'm like that now. I'm just done. Yeah. It's like being focused on one thing at a time. I have to be very present and everything I do. Like right now I'm with Rich Roll. I'm not thinking about shit, but Rich Roll and what the first come out of your mouth right now. That's what gives me a huge advantage in life, especially today in this day and age with so much shit going so fast and everybody wants to keep everything going, everything up and everything. I want to be the greatest, you know, the greatest multitask of all time, not me. If I put my 100% into what's in front of me, I will destroy it. If I'm out here just multitasking this shit, I'm going to have to ask everything I do. So that's it is the most important thing in the world of me is being focused at the task at hand.


Distractions and Mindset (39:25)

And it's getting harder and harder to do that because there are so many distractions and it's so easy to distract yourself. Yes, it is. You don't ever have to be bored again with these things in our pockets. No, but the one thing I'm most scared of in the world is losing touch with the best thing in the world is your mind. Your mindset, how you can picture yourself, how you can focus, how you can drive, how you can put yourself in so many situations, get out of it because those headphones we listen to, those phones that we Google to find information, there's so many situations in my life where that shit's not going to help me. It's not going to help me. And you're able to just turn that off so fast because I know what has helped me. None of that stuff has ever helped me. None of that stuff has ever helped me. And it's helped me as being me alone, getting my shit together and being accountable for who I'm not and who I want to be. So, the answer is help me. So you get the opportunity to become a Navy SEAL and then you end up going through butts three times. It's like, yeah, Merry Christmas. I got lucky, man. Unbelievable.


Going Through BUD/S Three Times (40:33)

And the stories of what that entailed are like so vivid, man. It's unbelievable. Well, I was very fortunate to go three, three times and not in a sadistic way in a life changing, growing way. I found out so much about myself through going through that training three times and I went through the hardest part of the training three times. You know, after the first, so first phase is a crucible, man. And that's where I was at for three times. I spent most of my time in buds in first phase. In the hell week. In the hell weeks. And being in that grind. And in that grind, I got time to examine myself. I caught the live autopsy and also examine other people because I was really good about putting people way above me because I was, I wasn't shit. I was never nobody. So for me to be on the same stage as these greats want to be Navy SEALs and Buzztrains, like my God, you guys are amazing. I actually got here with you all. Thank you so much for allowing me into play. But as I was there for so long. I got a really good chance to sit back because now the cold water is this water now. It's not our cold anymore. Your mind starts to change. They say getting the water. Most people think about it. For you, it became my life. So I started learning that if you start to change your mindset versus it being like, oh my God, this sucks. I became a professional but student. So I wasn't going to leave until I graduated. So I started realizing if this is my home, this is what I am. I had to always reset the bar. I had to reset my new norm. They always had to be a new norm. So one thing we don't do is we don't have a new norm. My new norm is you can have every fucking morning at four o'clock and you suffer. This is your new norm. That became my new fucking life. Most people want to get out of it. I said, no, I'm on the fucking, this is your new life. This is who you are. Your new norm is you wake up and you suffer. And I started realizing if that's my mentality, this should ain't hardening. You're more, you're fucking new normers. You wake up, you're getting the fucking cold water. You're going to be here till the shit's fucking done. Whenever they say you're out, you get out. So my new norm, so I do that now to the day. My new norm now is if I'm doing a towards my run, you're new norm now, man. You're fucking to doing 200 fucking miles. The Roger that mentality. That's it, man. So at what point during this bud's experience do the instructors start to take notice of you in a way that separates you from the pack? Is it SPG or these guys that are like, they're starting to go, hey man, this dude's cut a little bit differently. SPG noticed it. He noticed it in my second half week because I really, and this is no lie, I'm very open about my life. I'm open about this. I really started to enjoy the fact of seeing what the human mind was capable of and seeing that what is so horrendous is so much joy and glory in this shit. And when you see other alpha males like, you know, SPG in the book, he was one of the hardest, I mean, one of the hardest guys in the SEAL teams. He's looking at you like, the fuck is wrong with you? Right. You know, like, you know, like, well, they start testing you. Like they're like, let's play this out, right? And there's that story where he makes you swim out to the boat. I'm on Wednesday night and that fucked me up because I like my knee was, you know, it was broken. It was it was fucked up bad and it's Wednesday of hell week and all the boat crews are past the surf zone. And I just got a tour to all shot my knee. Cause I'm not going to, I'm, let's go man. We're going and it's fucking like it's real late at night and it was fucking raining and the classes passed the surf zone and I'm still not a big fan of the water. The ocean is very unforgiving and I had this big life jacking on and, and SPG's like, Hey, follow me man. Should we run a mile down to the boat crews rap out past the surf zone? I'm thinking, Hey, we're gonna wait for them to come on in. He was, Hey man, get a Kim light. You broke a Kim light, put it on my hat and said, go out and fucking get him. And I was on my own. There was no like, there was no like swim buddy. It's like, it's like a budget for swim buddy. And when he said that to me, I said, are you in my mind? I said, this motherfucker is joking. He's got to be joking man. It's what he's been thinking like, I'm going to break this guy. Like this is going to be the moment. I think that's what it was, but, but we're now we're, you know, we're, we're pretty tight now. And he said, no, that wasn't at all. He said, you're one of the only people in my tenure as a, as a buds instructor that we're ever done that with. He said, I knew a person like you would have found as a challenge. And I had to dig deep cause I didn't want to look at him and say, Hey man, I'm not doing that shit. You know, I think I could it because there was no swim buddy. You know, you don't go out there Wednesday night after like 80 hours of hell week and you're like seeing stars and shit that like I'm like I'm during the daytime. You're seeing boats and I'm out there. I'm you're losing there. You're all over the place. He sent me out there. And I was like, okay, this is my time to show one of the best motherfuckers in the world that is on. So I got my shit man. I went out there and did it. It was a, I detail it well in the book, but it was a, it was a moment that I started realizing I'm starting to separate myself now. Yeah. So there's two kind of themes that emerge from that. One is this idea of taking souls. Right. This, this, this sense that, Hey, I came from nothing and I'm here amongst the best and then starting to realize like, Hey, these people are human. Right. How can I get my tactical advantage? Right. And then you explore this idea of taking souls, which, which essentially is going places no one else is willing to go to fuck with their heads. That's it. Right. That's it. To get, to get like the upper hand on that, on, on everybody else.


Becoming a Navy Seal

Mastering the Mind (46:28)

When you grow up weak and you start to master your mind, because my whole thing is whenever, um, whenever I'm weak at something, wherever I'm scared of something, I master it. I was a weak mind, you know, a weak minded person. So I mastered my mind and it mastered in my mind. I mastered the human mind. And I realized why I no longer judge people, why I no longer put people in a pedestal because we're all fucked up in our way. We all have demons. Some people hide them better than other people. So I know we all have them, but me knowing that I know the most alpha males are very fragile, very fragile. They never want to see another person harder than them, especially in that kind of realm. The ego attached to the ego are strong. Ego will fuck you up every time. Ego is serious. So if I can hurt your ego, I got you. So by me having such a fragile ego growing up, all this was my advantage. I was doing a live autopsy on how fucked up I was. I was like, Hey, this fucks me up. I better fuck sell the people up too. So I started using all these different tools and tactics to get instructors heads and taking souls. That's what happened, man.


Fucking with the Instructors (47:32)

We were Wednesday freezing fucking cold. Everybody's jackhammer and everybody's everybody wants to, you know, everybody's just wanting to get through it now. Jackhammer is when you just can't stop shivering. You're sitting there, this uncontrollable jackhammer and the instructors take great pride in watching you suffer. They do. You know, in a sick way, it's kind of funny. You know, you were there once as a student now, you're an instructor. But I knew how would I be thinking if I was an instructor? I would love seeing this sadistic shit go on. But what would I like to see? I would hate to see some guys just looking like this is just another fucking day on the fucking beach and go fuck yourself. I would hate to see that. So I still want to think like when they did it, they were harder. They were harder. Everybody's hard. So I see, you know what, man? It's time. You all, I can't fight you. You guys can fuck me up all day long. That's your job. And I love your job. I love what you guys are doing. You guys make this better. But now I'm going to take the tactical advantage and I'm going to start fucking with you. So I got my boat crew, Bill Brown. I had Chris Callum, my boat crew. Right. I was a couple of hardcore motherfuckers. And everybody right now is kind of like in their own world. Let's just get through this, man. I can't wait until Friday so we can graduate and how we can get going. I said, let's go ahead and have some fun. I said, we're going to start, we're going to start fucking with these guys. So the evolution here was we just got through with Med Check. You know, we're stripped down to nothing and they're checking us out, making sure we're good, checking in front of my own. You're checking for fucked up knees. My knees are all jacked up. They're giving me shots and shit. And I was like the boat crew leader of boat crew tune. So I'm in the front of the boat. I tell our guys this we're going to do the boats like on our heads. Saw it was we're supposed to lift the boats up above our head. So all you got to do. But when you're this weak, in this fragile, in this tire, the boat's heavy. So there's a thing you can do when you do boat presses, you can get the boat and like toss it up, toss it up and catch it. That shows like you're jacked up. So everybody's holding the boat and they're shaking and the boat started to come down their head and all the boat crews are all lined up and they're fucked up. And I'm looking at that and I turn around my boat and I say, guys, it's time to fucking take some souls. And they're like, what the fuck are you talking about? I said, we're going to see all these fucking instructors out here, all in their fucking jackets and drinking coffee and laughing and smiling shit. I want their fucking faces to go straight up fucking numb. So we're going to do this. We're going to start boat pressing this motherfucker. Just take my lead trust me. You're getting energy from it. We start throwing this boat up in the fucking air, catching the toilet and catching the boat up and start yelling, I can't hurt fucking boat crew too. We're yelling our fucking ass off and we doing it. And they make a stop. Like what the fuck, like the stop. I look at these instructors and their faces literally look like someone like just like took their soul out. I know with their minds, like they were thinking about themselves. Like what the fuck just happened, man? I know me almost. I couldn't have done that. How are they doing it? So the rest of time going through Hell Week, it was like we just, we owned it. Boat crew too. We won every single race. We were just dominating. And it was a strong boat crew and that's where taking souls is. There's a few taking soul stories, but that's one of them. Yeah.


Building Camaraderie (50:49)

And part of that is learning how to be a leader. Like when you're dealing with these alpha males and these huge egos, there's this tendency to just try to outshine the next guy, right? You can tell an example. There's another guy who kind of proceeds along that path. Right. And he realizes very quickly that he's not going to make it because he doesn't know how to build camaraderie with the other guys. Right. Right.


Recognizing Arrogance (51:15)

I'm talking about Mr. Dobbs. He's a good friend of mine still this day. And he went into that place, man. And I knew where he was going. It's my third half week. And I knew Sean real well, but I knew he was real arrogant. He had a serious chip on his shoulder like I do. I still do. I got that control every now and then it got me in a lot of trouble sometimes. But I knew he had it. I knew that chip on your shoulder not being controlled. It will get your fucked up and it cost him a lot going through buds. And I saw the look, I saw the look because I once had the look and I was going through your pair of rescue school and something got so hard and your mind can't process the hardness. You don't know the right tools to get through something hard because you've never been challenged before. I could tell he was a superhuman that nothing ever challenged him. But I knew because I've been through the whole week a couple of times, I knew mother fucker don't don't underestimate that shit. It will it will find a fucking demon and will bring out some insecurities in you and it did. And it was like maybe 30 hours in the hell week or something like that. I'm looking over at him and I smiled at him. We're standing just like this in line and he's getting his med check. A doctor's looking at him. It happened just to be beautiful timing and I'm sitting there. I'm getting med checked and I'm looking at him and his eyes says he's a thousand yards still looking right through me and he's getting med checked and I'm looking at him and before all this happened I told him I said don't underestimate this motherfucker man. He was I can't ever see myself quitting shit. I go watch out I go watch out I go this motherfucker will get in your head. I go the end is a long way away. So we're sitting there eye to eye and he didn't see me. I'm right in front of him and I can tell you he has that quitting mind starting up. And I look at him I go I told you motherfucker. I told you motherfucker. The next thing I knew man a car pulls up and he he rolled out rings the bell. He rings the bell and he quits but it was he's a great human being.


Lesson learned from quitting something (53:17)

Hard motherfucker it it doesn't make you you know when you quit something like that man. It's a huge lesson learned that I can't go into anything thinking that there's nothing that's not going to get in my way. You got to be prepared for all those obstacles. Right. Well on the steam of the reader being the hero here like what is the what is the takeaway on the stealing souls thing because that's that's one of the challenges. Well there's tons of takeaways with that one man. It's about finding energy and strength when you have none. Like a lot of times in life like that situation right there man it's the worst time of your life. There's energy all around us but we think that we have to have it has to come externally a lot of times. We have like a TV in front of us watch somebody listen to a podcast listen to a great music a lot of times in life is fucking quiet. And those are the times when you want to run and hide. You got to be able to find energy. You got to make up games make up tricks make up whatever you can to get to the next evolution of life. So taking souls is just another way it's not about hurting the person you're against. It's about finding a tactical advantage in every situation you fucking physically can to get to the next you're trying to inch further to the goal line. And you don't want to go to that goal line the goal is whatever it is for you for me. I want to get through hell week. That will get me with with you know with my head up high being strong. I know what the goal on this for everybody my goal has been very different for most people but you're trying to find energy and strength to stay in the fight to continue on till you get that second wind. The second wind is coming whenever the second wind may be for you. It's coming but what happens is we get so stressed out that the end is so far away that we just can't find another foothold another handhold so we jump off the cliff and we fall. There's another one you got to find it so taking souls the one way to do it. Well as you as you progress through this this journey that you're on and you're winning these victories along the way this idea kind of comes comes upon you which is this drive to be uncommon amongst the uncommon right you you mentioned a few moments earlier that you started distancing yourself even from the seals themselves like okay I've done this I've distinguished myself amongst these guys like now what's the next challenge how can I push myself harder like who who you know what are the other circumstances I can put myself in to be the hardest motherfucker on planet earth which was kind of the driving impulse


Becoming a Navy SEAL (55:59)

underneath all of this right right so elaborate on that a little bit so for me that's why I want to become a Navy Seal I wanted people to push me outside of my covers on every day you know and I thought this was going to be the absolute best platform to do that these guys the stories I heard after buds it just gets harder and I didn't see it that way because buds is just to become the seal that's right I like my god I came to imagine what the fuss gonna happen but what happens to a lot of people not everybody can't speak for every I don't know everybody buds breaks people down to the point where you don't want to be broken down again like that to me that was exactly the exact starting point for my journey in life that was a starting point for me for a lot of people it's the finish line and I didn't see it that way for me so that's where I started becoming uncommon amongst uncommon people is where I started realizing that you put people in a pedestal that you shouldn't that you you got to get in there yourself and examine people see what's really about yourself so once I got in there and realized hey these are just normal people yeah they're a lot better than some they're able to get through I know a lot of people who can get through Navy Seal training but you know there's a lot of mystique behind behind all that stuff and I just got to go through and start to break it open a little bit you know a lot of hard guys but you know I want it more I want it more and this this is your strength in certain respects it's a superpower that you have but it's also your Achilles


Experiences in the Delta Force

Challenges of being different (57:31)

heel big time big time I talk about the book a lot too one thing that hurt me a lot was I thought everybody wanted the same thing I wanted and everybody wants the same thing you fucking want everybody wants to get before o'clock in the morning beat yourself and find more about themselves and stuff like that and I thought the seals did most people don't yeah and I thought the seals did but that's what you know because every book you read that's what everybody does so I I was hook lining sinker so that mentality that I had it kind of put a bad taste now you know once I realized that not everybody was like this in the community and I was like you know what man so then I started having chips on my shoulder I had my own little thing I was doing with a couple guys working out on my own do my own little thing and when you start doing that stuff and you start to drive yourself away from people you know and I was already different as it was you know even if I didn't do that I already came in being very different like I tell people I was a part of the Navy SEAL teams I wasn't part of the Brotherhood right and so going out and partying I'm not going out no that's not me that's never been me though like if I was in the college if I wasn't a big for I couldn't be part of a fraternity man I would never join a fraternity ever I'd like a fuck you all man I got my own shit going on over here man go fuck yourself that's me I don't like fraternities so just me when you join the SEAL teams you're joining a big fraternity so I was already asked out so then when you asked out not wanting to hang out I wasn't a dick I do my own shit that's me so I grew up wanting friends at a young age and once you get self-esteem and shit you know who you are I was comfortable you're not liking me but I hang it out and then you take it to another step further with this being hard mentality of if you guys aren't doing what I'm doing you guys aren't shit so I did a lot of things that pushed people the wrong way that rapidly the wrong way and in that being in the fraternity it's like a big soap opera it's like the fucking guiding light and you know people starting out liking you for certain reasons people know who the fuck you are rumor mill start happening then I have two heart surgeries people think I don't want to fucking deploy overseas or gongers don't want to fight he just wants to run but I'm not gonna say I had two heart surgeries I couldn't even go fight so this a lot of things happened and within that it's life yeah but ultimately that hurt your military career it didn't hurt it didn't know me me looking back on it it I was who I wanted to be I was who I wanted to be so hurting it I don't think hurting it is being an Air Force guy being the Navy SEALs being a Ranger you know my goals were finding the baddest me on the planet working with the baddest guys on the planet and the heart surgeries hurt me a little bit but what I realized is I got a lot of growth from examining people you know my my insecurities during securities my military career was absolutely stellar you know not many people have pulled off honor man everywhere I went and done the things I've done I didn't deploy as much as I wanted to yeah I went to Iraq stuff like that but I wanted to play a lot more with with the heart surgeries keep me out of training for four years that hurt me a lot but all in all there's not many people who've done some of the things


Going to Army Ranger school (01:01:03)

I've done right so not satisfied with just being in the Navy SEALs you decide you want to go to Army Ranger school yes sir and you go and do that yep and you distinguish yourself there so you know when the dust settles you've done Air Force what is it called the tag tag P it's called a tactical control party Navy SEALs buds and then and then Army Rangers Army Rangers do not want to delta selection twice I'll say it exactly so what how did


Trying out for Delta Force (01:01:30)

that play out ultimately so a delta selection I went the first time when I was a so I went both time as a Navy SEAL which is very frowned upon because we have our own little group there you know dev group so how that even came to be was after my second platoon where me and my guys didn't get along you know we had a great deployment but we didn't get along bottom line once again it's how life is when you come back in a fraternity like that rumor mill flat you know goes around and maybe Goggins is a bad attitude don't work with him whatever whatever so I didn't get my orders to go to dev group I actually screen for dev group didn't get picked up or I got picked up to go to the screening process I pass the screening process was going to green team a lot of these fucking things that we know is about but anyway I didn't get my orders to go to dev group so I said you know what it's a good time to go try out for depth for for for delta force so I went there got messed up you know I fell down a mountain my lady trapped in the mountain or in some rocks broke my ankle messed up I think a real bad then I had the heart surgeries then I went back to delta and I was getting ready to get to the very last day and what happened there was I was getting real happy I'm gonna be a delta guy this is the shit I can't believe and I'm back in the game and once you let your mind get unfocused you get lost out in the woods and out there going through delta selection it's a lot of land navigation and if you're not paying attention to that map and compass and it was my last day before the 40-mileer and 40 miles like a big the big last thing you do and I was gonna fuck that 40-mileer up right but that's your game that's my game man and the very one thing you're gonna be a little bit you know you put you know you put weight in my back and go man I'm gonna hurt you and I got literally I was about two hours ahead of time and I was just going through thinking man I'm fucking done I made this shit man I'm gonna go back and do my shit I'm going back out to fight man with you know with an elite group a tear everyone asset I was so stoked my mind got drifting away and I got lost and I found myself lost I got I reoriented you know I got fucking back on track and I went to I thought my last point was I saw another student I said hey man we only got five points it was no my friend we got six and I was like 45 minutes from drop dead and I made it by one minute and you make it by one minute after making it by two hours every day I was getting there two hours


Delta Force and Different Vehicles (01:04:06)

early every day I don't know what the standard is at Delta they don't tell you shit and there's two vehicles you get into man one vehicle goes to another campground meaning you're still here and the other vehicle goes uh goes to uh some speed bumps back to your racks and you're getting a fucking airplane I went into that vehicle yeah that was it um how many soldiers are there though that have gone through all of those programs I can say honestly I'm the only one you're the only one for a hundred percent fact I know for a fact for a fact and I haven't googled it and looked at I know there's nobody in the world who's willing to say let me scream for Delta Force twice let me go to Army Ranger School as a Navy Seal let me go to Navy Seal let me go be in three hell weeks let me go to Air Force so my military


Understanding David Goggins (01:04:56)

career was phenomenal there's uh there's a classic quote look I think it's as I recall I think it's when you decided you wanted to go to Army Ranger School and one of your guys says man gogens you're the kind of guy who would like to be a POW just to see if you could fucking do it he was my OIC and I actually still talked to him today of my first platoon I really respect the guy awful I wish I could pop his name but I don't have permission right now to he was a great leader because he understood me as a as a good leader you have to understand everybody that works with you he understood the uniqueness that is me and I'm a very different person you gotta have a you gotta be a real fucking man to understand David Goggins and I give a lot of credit for this let me be me and I screamed and you know he went to uh that into a dev group but he said that before Ranger School because I put a kid in a chit is a special request shit I put seven special request chits in to go to Ranger School as a new guy in in the SEAL teams it's like why the fuck are you trying to go to Ranger School man as a SEAL and back then they were sitting in some Navy SEALs there for punishment you know they sent a few there and I was going because I was like begging to go I'm like there's another challenge out there that sucks that people don't want to go to that I can grow from that I can see some more uncommon mother fuckers out there that want to get hard and get after it and I always found out one thing when you're in training that's where you find how people really are I found the best out of people in training that's why I love buzz that's why I love Ranger School because but once you get out training very few people keep that same mentality it's like hey I'm thank God I'm done with it that's why I always love going back to scratch mm-hmm yeah and the cool thing about Ranger School is you show up and they strip you of all of everything so you don't know who anybody is or what the rank is or any of that kind of shit no there's no rank and shit and they just presume that you must have gotten in trouble right that's the only reason you'd be there right so tell me tell that story about so there were so before I showed up to Ranger School man there were a couple of Navy SEALs got sent there for punishment reasons and a couple of them quit you know like not because it was too hard I imagine probably because you know fuck you I'm not gonna be here for punishment I'm gonna get my ass kicked again with you Navy SEAL training so it just came with an attitude of being there so a couple of them I'm out so that gave some of the SEALs a bad reputation at Ranger School and then I show up I show up and I'm like yeah I want to be here and they thought I was just another guy they got in trouble not knowing that I begged to come here and I begged to get beat on for 69 days and starve and lose 56 pounds like I lost so it's like day three and they have you know an army guy where I'll strip the rank on this David you know I'm this Goggins and whoever that's just your name I mean you could be a fucking major you could be a general and you're this Thomas it's all a fucking war man they don't care so I'm hiding out but I got my little Navy name tag on so they can tell my Navy guy my little Navy hat you know so they know my Navy guy I stand out and one thing is not many black guys in Ranger School so I'm in the back hiding out and they tell the you know they tell the guy hey come up here you know you know you're the first sergeant in the first sergeant you just know Ranger Creed so the guy goes up there and he goes uh he fucks it up and they go hey they look right at me I know for a fact oh see him back there really call me doesn't know this shit I was like motherfucker I've been studying this Ranger Creed for a year this one's sitting in my head I get up there man recognizing how volunteers a Ranger flew in the enhance my children affairs and I was in different hopes these are the hospital arrangements you're done I went on and now is in fact the region more of these he's like what the fuck so I went ahead and said the whole fucking Ranger Creed and that's the I knew he was hey you're new for a sergeant I was like fuck now not only am I going through one of the best leadership schools you have to be dialed in all day long when I'm not out in the field getting graded I'm now in garrison having to be in charge of all these fucking guys in Bravo platoon so Bravo Company so I was like guys so it was uh I was always had to be on the whole time Roger that Roger that so I was like fucking man I guess I'm in charge now the whole time but I never got fired you know most guys going through that you know you get fired that's what led me to you know getting the the honor man award right one of the things you don't talk a lot about is


Talking About Deployments (01:09:34)

your deployments you talk about that experience in Malaysia a little bit only briefly in the book so I'm just wondering what the rationale behind like are you not allowed to did you just think that it wasn't relevant to the story you were trying to tell well the thing about is is I deployed I fought in combat stuff like that first of all it's hard to relate to that second of all I to get all kind of fucking approvals from people to get that in the book and talk about it and I want to go through that process of hey can I put you know what I did not rack in the book and stuff like that in the book and I want my book to relate to people you know there's enough Navy SEAL books out there talking about you know running gun and shooting them up stuff like that that's never been I don't want to be known as a Navy SEAL you know I talk a lot of you know people want to ask me about it you know Navy said that was a snippet of my life you know I was a snippet of my life and I want to be known as somebody much more than that who did a lot more than that so my book is about helping people and I can't help people through what I did in combat mm-hmm I can help people by what I went through in life life itself and I went out to I mean it was it was intentional to make this book about how can these stories resonate and help people and you know it wasn't like hey let me kiss my own ass so that's why I had to go there and do that so it was it was a that that's why yeah well there's a you know the cover image of the book is you in military uniform and there are a lot of those other kind of books out there you know Chris Kyle and I know you you you're tight with the LaTrell brothers those have been huge books and they become movies and cultural you know very culturally relevant and nothing but I'm not a war hero yeah I'm not I'm not I'm not a war hero man like you know there's a lot of heroes out there and I don't have a great story to tell you about war what is the climate though when you're in the seals and then somebody writes a book like my sense was always that that was kind of frowned upon it is found upon the still a lot of things are found upon the still teams a lot of things are you know that's that's one of them I don't care what you do you know it's your life and I'm not about judging people for that but a lot of a lot of seals don't like anybody going out doing anything like that and I'll know if it's a lot of jealousy or whatever I don't care but it is it is found upon for some people do that but I guarantee you some of those guys if they did some cool shit you know a lot of us don't do cool shit yeah a lot of us he kind of not a cool shit so they're really isn't about it's not it's not some vain glorious no where you're in battle and telling crazy war stories no it's not that at all it it it only have many war stories to tell so a reader is the hero and another one of the themes that I want to kind of explore with you is this idea of of being the only right it was like a recurring thing in your story right so being the only and I actually talked about with Adam I came up with the only there's a lot of only's out there I was the only black and lost situations and the only in about a color there's a lot of you know there's gays there's lesbians there's people who are white people who just feel like they're not wanted in society that's the only the only is feeling like you're not accepted in any society that you're in doesn't matter what color Cree race gender doesn't matter it's is that you are in this situation where you feel like you're being judged you might be being judged you feel awkward it's an awkward feeling when you walk in a room and you're like oh my god like I'm the only and that comes with a lot of people and that's really only really came from because I didn't want to make it like a black situation I wanted to be I want this this is about people you are your own hero you are the hero of this book so I want it to be what's a word that can make people feel like this resonates to me that's only you know it's not about it was about black or about white or about about being Jewish or Christian or whatever so that's where it comes from man it's about ownership of a lot of people feel like no one understands what the fuck I'm going through right now and that's the only right and that seems to be something that you you use you leverage to


Victories, Setbacks and Finding Inner Peace

Leveraging the Power of Being the Only (01:14:05)

to get stronger oh yes the only is a very powerful thing for me and there's a lot of times in the life that I chose the only on purpose on purpose just to see how I will come out the other end of it and in the midst of all of that how do I say this for somebody that's listening to this or the reading your book and they do feel apart from they feel alone perhaps they have that victim mentality right they're just the world's against me I can't catch a break every time I try to do this this happens it's some narrative that they're spending about their life right like what's the first step out of that well like I've said a million times before the most important conversation is the one you have with yourself you wake up with it you walk around with it you go to bed with it eventually you act on it sometimes you act on it good sometimes bad you got to change the internal dialogue that person in your head that's talking that shit to you until you change the internal dialogue in your head until you callus over the victim's mentality that the world is out to get you because of you are the only you got changed that shit man yeah but you don't understand my life David yeah I do that's the thing about it and that's why I can talk about but yeah I give you're saying a lot of folks don't under I get that mentality I once had that mentality that no one understands what the fuck I'm going through and if you keep that mentality you're going to stay in the same exact spot that you're in that no one understands me there's a whole there's millions of people why you think a book that I self-published you know it's doing so well with the story that's so fucked up people like I never get what I went to a publishing house like who's going to resonate with this story no one's going to buy this book I'm like are you not in the world are you not in society you're never alone everybody's going through shit so when people get this mentality of like you understand me you can throw a fucking rock to someone that can understand you if they're willing to break themselves down and stop hiding a lot of people understand you but you got to stop hiding and that's why I tell people a lot of people are going through shit they just hide better than you did that's all they did it was hiding better yeah it's easy you


Celebrating Victories and Reflecting on Accomplishments (01:16:31)

know it's easy even even after you've accomplished something to not rest on your laurels or take a breath like you're somebody who's constantly constantly moving forward I am but I think one thing that gets lost in your story is that you are pretty good about celebrating the victories along the way and celebrating yourself I talk about with my fiance every single day I talked about with her two hours today I said we are fucking grinding so hard that we are losing the vantage point of what we have accomplished today we got podcast podcast interview flying do this do that like stop stop it's just me and you and this mom and pop thing that we that that we're doing looking where the fuck this book is that right now it's crazy look how many people were touching shut shut shut up and this fucking thing for a second let's let's stop because all we were doing was talking about this and this we are keep I know enjoy this for a second that's we have to take time and realize what the fuck we've accomplished that's an evolution for you man huge huge but it's a very different David Goggins and even from a couple years ago huge because you have to what is all about I'm gonna keep on grinding that's not what I'm saying what I'm saying though is you have to respect what you've done take a second not living it not sit around and say I'm good sit back and say let me look at the vantage point now that I'm at we win there that's why you reset the vantage point get the tactical advantage if you get the tactical advantage too quick and start fighting you got to take a second to take observation of where I'm at what have I done am I the right spot I'm obviously in the right spot right now now we can go back to fighting mm-hmm so that's what we're doing right now and how did you how did you arrive at that epiphany because I would imagine there's a different version


Finding Peace and Clarity (01:18:28)

of you that wouldn't allow yourself to be that indulgent it's called you find peace I never found peace until I got real sick and you find peace by clarity and there's no clarity when there's noise there's always a schedule in front of you to keep grinding at it so my schedules always there I'm still alive and I'm still alive I'm gonna grind it something dead but in that grinding schedule you have to have a point in there where it's okay at 12 o'clock reset the tactical advantage and look and see where you're at at this new vantage point stop for a second and survey the field because what I was doing was I had this big long schedule and in this schedule there was no take a second see what the fuck you've accomplished is if I did all that shit in the military after I got honor man at Ranger School and I was a top leader amongst 300 people when I got back to that second platoon if I'd taken the vantage point and say okay my god man you've really grown as leader I would have attacked the situation that second platoon was differently when I was like oh you guys are fucking you guys are gonna work out this fucking hard you ain't you ain't hard like this I would have learned I would have taken a step back and said okay hang on a second man you learned a lot that's the tactical advantage you got to take that vantage point and take a second to breathe and say you learned a lot but when you learn a lot if you just go back into the fight you never apply what you learn you just get that certificate graduation to go get it remember what you learn and use it and that's about taking that one second out get on top of that mountaintop looking down it's okay how would I have handled this years ago well I would really fuck that up this time let's not fuck it up again right so that that occurred not during the heart surgeries but afterwards when your body was broken and you got into the stretching broken yeah it was a big it's like when you go and somebody gives you a knot and they tie a lot versus a time to not they tie a lot and they say hey can you undo this that was the inside of my body mm-hmm but it forced you to stop it made me stop yeah yeah I can no longer go otherwise you wouldn't you wouldn't have stopped I would never realize I realized now yeah I've been going in blessing right like hey man we got to bench you because you need to reflect the body will do that the body will do that the body will say hey man you've done a good job


Overcoming Overtraining and Setbacks (01:20:55)

now we're fucking done and my body said you're done right so you you have the heart surgeries you make this return to ultras I mean dude we've been talking for like an hour and a half we haven't even talked about any and the whole short stuff but you know we talked about that last time man you go out you're crushing it and all these races then you have the heart situation you have two heart surgeries then you're back at it again and then you hit this wall like you you described this classic over training situation where you got back at it and you were training super duper hard and then you showed up and you were just flat right yeah I started gaining weight overnight my thyroid my inner consistent start shut down channels yeah fucking just shutting down left and right I'm surprised it took that long for you to have and like a severe over training episode and yeah it was a severe you know it was probably over training mixed in a lot of shit you know the body was whacked it was whacked man and it just said you're done go ahead hang up your shoes lay in the bed it's time to die and how long did that go on for it went on about five years five years yeah so wait what period of time is this so you're looking at it was bad water so before bad water 2013 when it started actually walked a hundred miles of that race to finish it that was the one I was crewing Dean that year yep and you were right on our heels like most of the day and if I was I walked that whole thing if I was on Dean's he was walking along cells so it was not a good year for no I walked that almost whole race I was cramping up so bad look like an alien was in my quads they were just doing this weird thing I was hydrating saw like what the hell is going on my body starts shutting down then and then I had like a period of time I was like my god feeling my best and I crushed this race called frozen otter and I was like my god man I'm back no I wasn't it was just my body saying we got one more in this man before we give it up so 2013 is when it really started hitting hard man and it went on from all the things that you had to process that was probably one of the hardest being told you have to stop it was one of my hardest but I have to


Finding Peace and Self-Fulfillment (01:23:12)

be honest with you it was the most eye-opening refreshing time my entire life it was like it really made me reset and it like what it said to me was alright man we still got 500 percent you can't run you can't work out so that's why I went to school and I became a medic you know stuff like that with the you know I started doing awesome I literally reset so I'm always in constant pursuit of my 100 percent whatever that is if I can't run anymore I want to see what else I can do so it I was I was real proud of how I handled that with my whole life got stripped from me and I was at like 20 years in the military neck my life was getting stripped man and I couldn't run I couldn't work I couldn't do shit anymore and I didn't lose my shit all that training I'd gone through mental training I'd gone through I was able to utilize it to find a lot of peace in myself a lot of joy and a lot of self-fulfillment and it was it was actually not the best time yeah well my favorite chapter in the entire book is the final chapter I was a sick chapter well I mean I was just so because one of the things I've always sort of thought about you or been concerned about with you is like is this guy gonna just go to his grave grinding and just angry and resentful and avenging you know against the world or is he gonna be able to find peace is he gonna be able to be content is he gonna be able to find a way to to you know find the joy and the gratitude for these experiences or are you just gonna be fighting all the way to the end man and you found that right like I was so happy to like read that yeah I found it but what's great about it is I found it I can still tap into it yeah do is it was there a moment of thinking like if I if I allow myself to experience joy and gratitude that I'm not gonna be able to be as hard that I'm gonna lose that edge that distinguishes me no that's not at all what it was was I never felt that my entire life you're almost taught that shit when you're born in a happy home and you're born around happy shit it kind of comes out I never I don't laugh my dad beat the laughter out of me when when you can't read and write and you're trying to hide out in classes and please don't call on me and shit and you're fucking all scared and shit everywhere you go you're nervous and you're in your panicked and you're stuttering and you know your whole life is


Finding Joy and Authenticity (01:25:47)

that shit there's not joy in that shit that becomes who you are no matter how much you


Personal Growth and Recognizing Life's Purpose

Not Judging Others (01:25:51)

change you're scared so people like my god man you never smile never do this it's my life it's my life so you got to teach yourself how to read and write and also fucking smile and say it's okay a lot of things aren't like you know man why don't you do this like I don't judge people that's why I don't judge the people man you don't smile look so hard like this read my book and don't forget where I came from it's who you are you have to undo


Finding Peace through Suffering (01:26:23)

that shit and no one came down and trained me on how to be happy how to find peace how to do this and that's why I'm so glad I found it through suffering the greater the suffer


Embracing Personal Growth (01:26:34)

the greater the peace I found but you have to reflect on where you came from from the dungeon of hell that came from how to reflect on that shit to find final peace and be able to say wow motherfucker if you die in this bed at 40 years old I'm the happiest motherfucker


Embracing Authenticity and Happiness (01:26:53)

in the world because I did it I pissed people off along the way some people don't like me merry Christmas whatever but you can find look in the fucking mirror and you can cuss on damn rich roll shit and don't care what they say about you be happy with it the non judgmental part is a lesson that you have to learn the hard way to write big time yeah


The Fear of Fitting In (01:27:11)

big time I used to hate people not liking me when the hardest thing in the world for me at a young age was my god I just want to fit in I want to fit in I want you like me so that's a horrible fucking place to be in my because you lose yourself when you want to fit in with people so badly normal fucking people no better than you you do whatever you can to fit in that's a bad place to be you lose yourself in trying to create a character that other people will accept and the that's where I found a lot of joy man this is god this is me I'm speaking the third person I fucked up I got some shit going on I'm still working on myself taking a leave you don't like me taking them or getting line man and it does that involve like a spiritual perspective like what does that look like for you I am a even though people may not believe it because I cuss Mrs. hilarious I believe in god big time I've had this voice in my head since I was a young kid so what trained me was that voice and I'm not gonna go god on you right now I don't care if people even god or not that's not my place I'm not here to judge you you have your own life and your own things to deal with this voice in my head guided me to a spot where I'm at today and if you don't believe that you're here for a reason your life will seriously hurt and I start looking at my life and all the shit I went through as god put me some god where we believe in put me here to go through this and I see all the hundreds of thousands of lives I'm changing by the hell I went through there's a lot of power in that so my purpose as I started going through this journey instead of looking at like what was me god man why why the fuck man what why I said looking at us was the perfect training ground you knew exactly what you were doing you know exactly what the fuck you were doing obviously you put me in every


Recognizing Life's Purpose (01:29:06)

situation possible to tell a story that needs to be told yeah looking back it's like every domino is lined up perfectly to create the person that I'm sitting across from right now


Growth Opportunities and Upcoming Challenges

Leveraging Opportunities for Growth (01:29:20)

and also you took advantage you leveraged all of those opportunities to be that best version of yourself mm-hmm I did as as as afraid of that I mean it was a very scary scary road a guy who was afraid of a lot of things to then find power and fear to find power and overcoming fear in the get to a mat today where there's very few things I'm really afraid of because I know how to control it I know how to manage it I know how to work it to my advantage now it's it's something else man so I really challenge people to really do a live autopsy on your brain and the reason why I talk about my childhood so much in this because I don't want you to put a title on me because once you title me as a freak you now put yourself in a position where you can be very comfortable in saying it's just not possible for me yeah that's so important because you have done so many crazy things it's very easy to just say well he's a crazy outlier that's it that's it he's that guy he's that he's that special guy nope and that's the thing that makes me so pissed off in this world man the one thing that only thing gets me mad nowadays is that so many people die with untapped potential because they think that someone else is fucking better than them and they were born you know not with the greatest tools you don't need shit you need the ability to fucking grind your ass into a fine fucking powder and we need that fine powder find a way to build that motherfucker back up repeatedly and it's possible yeah for you what I love is that you go out on these crazy training excursions and it's just pair running shoes and shorts alone that's it man you don't have any crazy gear nope it may sponsor bullshit or anything like that nope it's just at its most purest form I found a lot in that man always it has to be pure man like I don't want people like the reason I'll post a post what you're doing today no no man this is my time I want you fucking know I'm doing today this is this is my time this is my growth factor but I think it creates a lot of demand because when you do drop that bomb once a week or whatever I'm talking about it like holy shit I'll look at it and I'll be like damn and that thing's got like 200,000 like an hour ago hey man I let you know what's going on man you know it's a it's


Continual Learning and Growth (01:31:44)

all about giving back and training but I'm still learning I'm still learning I'm not


Overcoming Fear of Judgment (01:31:50)

Yoda yet what do you what do you still need to learn and what are you still afraid of honestly my my biggest fear to this day is and I say it a lot and I say a lot and it's it's going to heaven and being judged by God and you know God has I believe that God has this knows everything about you from time you're born when you're gonna be born when you're gonna die when you're gonna graduate buzz whatever's gonna happen to you he knows all this shit some people never do what God knows you're capable of doing because you keep you know we have choices my biggest fear in life was to was to get to heaven and God look at me as I'm being judged and I was some fat 300 pound guy like I used to be that still spray for cockroaches was a cock you know that's that's okay it's what you want to do I didn't want to do that and I made a thousand dollars you know a month I got to heaven and God laid out this chart in front of me and he said hey man look at this chart and had my name on top and all this amazing shit and like that's not that's not me man he goes that's who you were supposed to be my biggest fear in life is that one day if I ever get judged by something someone some some energy force that go up there and I failed the mission whatever would ever force up their thought I was supposed to be some bad ass and I went up there under achieved you know I want that force up there that knows everything to be writing as I'm living and saying I had no fucking idea he even had this in him so I want to just be the best I fucking can and a lot of people say that I truly mean that and what is it


Continual Self-Discovery (01:33:36)

that you have to learn I still learn me you know I still feel there's you know there's times where as a human being I'm a human and you you still fall back in these in these ruts of life where you think that you had a permanent fix because I've done all that nothing's a permanent fix man that's why I grind every day because nothing is permanent


Upcoming Race: The Hurt 100 (01:34:02)

are you training for anything right now I'm signed up for the hurt 100 oh you actually


Limited Time for Training (01:34:07)

got in it and my schedule is so fucking packed but I'm hoping I have like literally a one day like literally I can go out there run the race and fly back so I'm also that one is a race it is I think the 17th or 18th or 19th it's in that it's that weekend right in there that's a rare return to a race I mean other than bad water I've done a race three times already yeah you don't hurt three times oh you have okay yeah I've done three times and I haven't done a hundred mile race since that bad water 2013 I've done I've done several ultras but that 100 mile Disney my bias wasn't just not there it's there now but now my schedule is so busy but I said it's almost time man right but I feel like bad waters your shit it is the one that stands out amongst everything as the thing you're always trying to master


Mastering Races and Self-Accountability

Mastering the Badwater Race (01:34:58)

it it was funny about that I'm just not getting to the point now where I'm being I'm gonna be


Prime of Your Life (01:35:03)

real dangerous next time I go out there well listen man you're 43 now right 43 you're prime I am you know this is this the prime of my life this is my prime ultra life 43 was my best year was it yeah I mean it's you're you're ready to un uncoil man I think I I believe so


Balancing a Big Life (01:35:20)

I don't want to the big challenge for you now is that your life is so big and that's the thing that I used to be this underground no and the monk is what gave me my strength I was an underground much quiet so much quiet in my life I saw all the noise out you're that guy in the corner with the hoodie on that's me man yeah that's me that's me dangerous


Future Badwater Appearances (01:35:41)

dangerous motherfucker try to man so so we can expect another bad water appearance oh for sure yeah for sure that is that that this will not end this will not end without


The Importance of Journaling (01:35:54)

that motherfucker right there yeah well I want to I want to pivot a little bit and talk about the takeaways here for for the reader I mean we talked about the accountability mirror a little bit we talked about visualization and taking souls but let's talk a little bit about how journaling has been instrumental in this journey that you've been on yeah so basically I've been journaling now for several years and I should put my journal with me man I mean I have several of them I have these little green military notebooks that I've kept actually put a couple in the in the book there and come up right out but I write down my day and what I do is I go back and study that day like sometimes I might I might get sick I might be over trained I might gain a couple pounds here I might feel whatever that and I it's like my accountability journal of what I'm doing with my life physical mental I had eating journal all this shit and helps me go back to once again study I'm a lab rat and I study myself and I'm like when I'm feeling fucked up I go okay what I do last week and


Importance of Journaling and Self-Accountability (01:37:04)

usually I can find out where I messed up last week you know how much I'm traveling how much I'm sleeping how much I'm doing all this stuff and and through journaling man you can really figure out so much about where you're messing up in life and what you need to fix about yourself taking constant inventory constant being honest about that and that's the thing about you cannot put bullshit in there yeah this guy be a real a real journal about hey today I messed up here today I should have been a better person here and not just saying


Leveraging Past Challenges and Embracing Sacrifice

Accountability to Close Circle of Friends and Mentors (01:37:32)

it but actually trying to fix it tomorrow do you extend that accountability to including like bringing in like a close circle of friends and mentors so they know what's going on or are you just accountable to yourself like if somebody's looking at this and saying well I could do that but how do you feel about letting others in on your goals and and and having like external pressure to hold you accountable no there's no external pressure that's that's that's what you don't know you know what I mean but I think other people oh yeah oh yeah it's no it's important to have circles it's important to have like like I talk about man like like that big rabbit hole of bad people that you want to get away from like if you're a drunk and you want to stop drinking you got to get away from those people you want to build this nucleus around you of people who are saying it's not okay to sleep in the day we got to get after it hey let me see your journal you're supposed to be running five miles and then you only ran three you got to have those people some people need those people and it's important but you want to get to the point in your life it's real important that you hold yourself accountable and those people start to fade away because you now got it you want to be that person because they're not always going


to be there to hold your hand mmm-hmm talk to me about the cookie jar one of the most powerful weapons I have man as a cookie jar and in times of need even the hardest person forgets how bad as they are so I've been through a lot of shit in my life when you're going through a hard time right now you forget all the hard shit you endured so the cookie jar is a reminder that oh I can get through this hard time right now but you got to take a second or two to reach into the mental cookie jar let's say it's a fortune cookie but in my mind my mommy's about this cookie is knowing the cookie jar and it's an Oreo it's just a horde whatever that's what I got the cookie jar from but you got to open up and say okay man I was in three hill weeks and I got through two of them you know I was in Ranger school I endured being called nigger I saw these beatings I you know my mom soon to be husband got murdered I saw all these I saw the kid head get ran over all these things I endured alone I have to remind myself of the strength and the power that I have that is in me it's just a reminder of how bad as you are in hard times because you know we just forget that that bad time consumes our mind and we forget who we are torch in complacency you have to do that every day man a lot of us are very you become complacent you become very civilized in life you know the worst thing that can happen to a person you become civilized when you get to that point where you believe that you've arrived when you my god man I'm up there near Michelle Obama on my book I've done it man I'm good you can coast I can't I'm good I'm good I'm good I got you played your man card to fucking do I ought to be a wildland fire fire I'm a retire for the middle I got I got go out there and dig fire line for three miles on forty three now I've done it you should just be flying first class everywhere everywhere I'm doing speeches and getting paid crazy cash in lane in a hotel kicking it man and that's exactly when it's over that mindset right there to me is death I'm not saying you can go as hard as you did when you were twenty or not forty three but there's a new bar that you must always set in your life and once you become complacent and you become civilized you've arrived you know good for anybody and how do you keep that bar high when most challenges now I would imagine seem trivial compared


Finding Strength in Past Challenges (01:41:20)

to what you've endured they are I go back to the sewer in the sewer is that seven dollar month place I once lived in as a young kid so even though mentally mentally mentally and I always talk about it I talk about I'm always paying rent in that seven dollar month place where I grew up in that nasty little place I grew up in I remember it I remember it like it was yesterday and I'm glad I do I never want to forget the dungeon of where I come from even though it's real spooky and scary and there's no lights on in there there's cobwebs and some creepy motherfuckers in there some demons all those motherfuckers in there made me joggins made me who I am today that's where the strength came from you got to go back to the beginning to to the fundamentals of life to the very fundamentals of where it all like playing basketball you got to go back to the fundamentals you know you can't always just stay up here you got to go back to scratch that's how you get better challenge becomes staying in tune with that that's right you know what I mean because life's getting better and easier for you and bigger and there's more demands on your time and like people are throwing really cool fun shit at you I'm always you can ask my fiance my conversation


The Importance of Hard Work (01:42:33)

on a weekly basis is I cannot get away from who the fuck I am who I am is who I'm proud of I'm very proud of the hardworking calloused hands calloused mind human being that I literally made this person with a lot of help from above a lot of guidance from saying you're going to go left when you should go right that horrible voice that wouldn't let me get away from myself and hide forever I listen to it I listen to it and the only way you can set the example is you have to always be willing to work I don't follow people who talk about what they used to do in life I get fuck what you used to do I don't care that you know you used to be the best but I don't care what are you doing today you may not be that person now but what are you still doing to try to excel in life and a lot of people now are talking I hear so much talk I don't hear a lot of work I hear a lot of people telling you what you should be doing how you should be doing it how you should be fucking living and I look at him in your fat your outer shape you look like shit but you're telling a motherfucker how to live no man I won't listen to you there's so many people speaking this shit and that's what bothered me a lot in the military there's a lot of people talking shit I don't see the real suffering behind it behind what you're saying that's what I said man you talk with someone's passion because it's a real fucking place it sucks to get in the morning time there was rain like cats and dogs I won't get my shoes on go run but guess what I got my shit on a man yeah got that motherfucker on the big fear is like is the vision that's coming into my mind is Jake is Jake Lamada at the end of raging bull when he's all fat and he's staring himself and in his own lack of accountability mirror right like drunk and talking about the good old days right there are no good old days man no no good old days you gotta you gotta go back and use it for strength man but it's where you at now I think the the most one of the most powerful takeaways challenges that you pose in the book is the schedule it in thing man because the biggest thing that I hear and I know you must hear constantly every single day is like I don't have time man you don't know my life I got this I got that I got this it's just it's not gonna happen for me right what you don't have is you even prioritize your life correctly we all have time we all have time what you've done wrong is that you you didn't prioritize yourself you didn't prioritize that look mother fuck I gotta get up and win this war today against myself I need to look better I need to feel better I need to prioritize time or I gotta run a hundred miles on broken feet or you gotta do whatever it is that's it that's it man there's a lot of growth in that shit so I like this idea of you know doing taking this inventory tool and applying it to how you're spending your time throughout the day you know I talk about this a lot you went into detail in this challenge about look man if you if you actually write down how you're spending your time throughout the day over a seven day period I mean it's crazy because I thought I was being pretty efficient with my time and I've done this and it's just amazing how much time is wasted that you're not even consciously aware unreal how much time you waste during the day in most of it on these fucking computers phones you know Instagram and back and forth whatever the hook you call it shit nowadays tweeting and texting the shit we waste so much time on our little gadgets


Wasting Time on Frivolous Activities (01:46:07)

it's unreal and we talk about we have no time if you really take you have to take your day and write right down this one day everything you do write that down and you like my god I am wasting so much time on frivolous bullshit is not even funny I mean it will it will it if it doesn't infuriate you it should because there's so much time I can't get it in look at your schedule you just waste seven hours a day on bullshit I mean you'll have an hour a day to try to get something in for yourself I guarantee everybody can find an hour then it becomes about willingness yeah because most people just they're not willing to get up that early to make those sacrifices required so it's a function of how badly do you want to change your life and what are you willing to endure to craft that life that you aspire to have or do you just want to talk about it yeah I mean it's it's fucking miserable


Embracing Discomfort and Sacrifice (01:47:01)

it is miserable I mean to get up every day or five days a week whatever when it's snowing shiny not not shiny not not comfortable and to go into gym and work out when you don't


Weight Loss Journey and Embracing Self

Finding Peace through Sacrifice (01:47:12)

want to go to gym it is not fun well and we're in a culture that that is driving everybody towards this idea that happiness is purchased through luxury comfort and ease a hundred trees could not be you know more different from that reality that if you want to find peace with yourself self understanding self knowledge self esteem all of these things are going to be found only through sacrifice getting uncomfortable reevaluating what your normal is and and putting yourself in situations that you don't want to fucking do yes and we want it very fast if you don't see results in the first two days or the first week I'm done that's the mentality of most people their struggle is too real we're not patient we like in the world


The Journey to Losing Weight (01:48:01)

where you can google the best restaurants around me right now no one is patient and for you to lose weight if you just stop drinking if you wear the hell you're going through it takes a lot of patience a lot of time a lot of pitfalls a lot of plateaus you can hit somebody fucking plateaus if you'll know how to get around that plateau it's not going to happen fast yeah everybody wants


The Biggest Stumbling Block (01:48:24)

the hack yeah everybody wants to have there is no hack man there's no hack what do you think is the biggest stumbling block that most people face with this kind of journey honestly is they have the well was me mentality it's too hard life isn't fair these things in life are not easy for me you you look to your left you look to your right and you start to judge yourself off other people like if you're a female well she's skinny she doesn't work out as hard as I do and everything starts to corrupt your mind you start to look around too much at other people and what


Stop Comparing Yourself to Others (01:49:00)

they're doing and that starts to corrupt your own dialogue we are judging ourselves against too many fucking people you have to judge yourself against yourself and that's the one thing I started learning man this in the race against me in rich role this is racing is david goggins and david goggins alone and once you can silence all that bullshit all the outside interference and things that are attracting your mind to everything you can then start to grow and realize and i'm stressed out for no reason this is my own little race this my own timeline and this time we're gonna run it i think that so many people are so disconnected from themselves they're operating on autopilot they're reacting to their environment that even when given the opportunity to set a goal for themselves they generally don't set the right goal right because they don't know what the fuck they're doing because they don't even know who they are fundamentally that's the big thing


Finding the Real You (01:50:00)

man and that's why it was important for me to finally realize stop being all these fake people i used to be stop being afraid there was no growth until i cut myself down to nothing to the person i really was the real human being and once i found out who i really was that's when i started growing i was trying to build on top of a lied fucked up foundation you can't build a house in the fucked up foundation so i had to get down to the actual mineral soil of who i was and that's


The Role of Suffering (01:50:34)

when you can start real growth and what is the role that suffering plays in that or the willingness to suffer it starts to peel all those layers away all those artificial layers away if you're


Personal Training Tips and Misconceptions

Peeling Away the Layers (01:50:46)

willing to suffer and suffer and go back in the grind that internal dialogue you have with yourself when you're in misery and you're uncomfortable it's a real scary unfiltered no lying dialogue between you and yourself and people know exactly what the fuck i'm talking about when you're in a bad spot in life and your mind is saying all kind of shit that's who you really are that's the real you no rocky bao boa moment's going on up there like hey you know it's around 14 that's come on we got this no it's like fuck this i'm out of here man this is crazy that's where the growth happens when you're able to stay in that moment and talk to yourself talk to yourself back into the suck of wherever you're going through and you start stripping those layers away but as you're stripping those layers away you're building calluses over top of shit in your mind that's where the growth starts to happen is when you have to force yourself to stay in it you can't you can't leave it that's why altros are such a great vehicle for self-exploration and that's why you see all of these um uh cultures over the millennia that you talk about in your book who use running as a means of self-exploration and a path to enlightenment because you can't bullshit yourself when you're getting it it strips you down to who you are and you you are confronted with the truth of yourself and your reality and you're forced to wrestle with that yes in a way where there's no escape hatch you know like that first hundred my race i've talked about several times where i lost all yeah all every day still the hardest physical thing you've ever done right yes physically and mentally because like you just said i was unprepared for that race no training just recap it like zero training zero training 100 miles so that you could impress chris costman well to get in the bad water pretty much right and when about pressing that guy by any means well you needed him to sign on it and it was like three days later i'm in a hundred mile race no train at all and when you do that it is stupid but what it does if you're not going to quit it that you just talked about it breaks you down to nothing you are suffering so badly mentally and physically that all of these demons are coming up and you're trying to find answers and you're trying to find answers it it was like living 19 hours it's like five years i put into 19 hours of highs and lows and pitfalls and and and seeing the sun come up and it was like my god i lived five years and 19 hours it was unbelievable it was unbelievable so do you find yourself chasing that now with every ultra challenge no because once you realize what you get from ultra what you get from life i can apply that now just by sitting here with you you know those tools now i don't need to go out even though i still do it and go out and hammer the hammer in part is like you know it's like a uh a purging of the soul you go out there and hammer out there you got to do that every once in a while you got a hammer man you got you got to get after it but now i figured


Different Ways of Letting Go (01:53:59)

out so many different ways and so many different tools through all of the journeys i've been through through just growing up man just just just being assured you know just just being really mature and now holding on to hate you know really really just letting all that shit go man and it's starting from scratch and let's go let's go forward how do you let it go i don't think enough about people that have that have wronged me or situations that have wronged me because once you've uh once you've uh come to a place where you are really happy with who you are in life no one fucks with you anymore even though they're fucking with you it doesn't fuck with you it doesn't fuck with you you know like all these i used to be so hurt by everything in the military and if someone did some or says something like man i have overcome so much shit there's not like i i'm just in the really good headspace right now my headspace i own it a lot of people own other people's headspace i own my own shit now what do you mean owner like they're just all caught up and what other people think about them and running all these narratives and they're all right they're they're more caught up and what other people think about them than how you feel about your own personal self so a lot of people have their brain and their mind on rent to a whole bunch of motherfuckers in world i am paying rent on my own shit i finally put a nice down payment on it and i'm making payments every day i'm on my own fucking brain so you don't you don't fucking


A Day in the Life (01:55:28)

control that shit anymore man i got it so walk me through a day in the life what's it look like right now well i mean it's got to be crazy right now i i leave here and i fly out to Oregon and i'll be in Oregon with uh Cameron Haynes we'll be getting after for a few days um a lot more podcasts a lot more interviews but every day every morning i get up i still get my


Training Structure (01:55:49)

running every morning how do you structure the training the training is basically structured off of my schedule so look at my schedule and i said okay um jennifer what do we have today we have this at seven o'clock in the morning roger that that means i got to be up by four o'clock in the morning to run that's how it works that's all my shit works so she lays out the schedule of events to out you just you just set it two hours earlier she says it could take an hour to get to rich rolls let's say we were at seven o'clock today in the morning takes an hour to get to rich rolls with no traffic okay let's let's block in an hour fifteen for rich roll okay we got that the morning time i'm gonna run seven miles this morning i need uh 52 30 for that roger that put in shit shower shave add that in so the schedule dictates but i have all that time just push it back right so if that means getting up at one 30 trust me roger that i've done that several times yeah several how much sleep do you usually get i like getting seven to eight hours of sleep nowadays i can do that but there's times where the the schedule says hey man you're getting three hours and if


Going Back to the Roots (01:56:59)

that's the case right merry christmas one of the things i felt that uh that maybe joe rogan didn't quite grasp was why you would go out and become this wildland fire fire this stage in your life right yeah um yeah here i'm looking at face like what the fuck um that's once again going back to the roots going back to who i am who how i became who i am today and it comes back from hard work it comes back from having that very minimalistic mindset and when you're out there man and you're 43 and i've accomplished a lot of shit you're out there with some 20 year old kids and you're nobody again being nobody there's a lot of power and being nobody there's a lot of power from going to scratch again and going back out there picking up a polaski and just digging fire line you're just another guy on the line digging a fire line and no one there's no text message there's no my god david can you sign my book no i'm a fucker get your ass out there it's like being in army ranger school again where all the titles are removed removed that's exactly where it is man and i take a i've always lived that lifestyle i always talk about living day one week one because i started day one week one of buds so many fucking times and when you hear that your heart is crumbled like fuck day one week one again man i could go through all that shit again like i said it became my new norm and i found so much growth in that day one week one mentality but what i did wrong i tried to put that mentality on a lot of


Misunderstanding the Story (01:58:40)

people and they don't want it yeah what do you think people most misunderstand about your story i'm not happy i'm uh one the biggest thing is they say look at his eyes look at his eyes man have you seen his eyes he has demons in his eyes looks so unhappy i'm like this a lot of protection you know and i see some of this shit i think that the biggest thing is i'm not happy i'm not i'm not fulfilled you know all this shit they're so missed in the point man what they see in me is a very focused driven human being who found a buried fucking treasure within himself not many people found it so the journey i'm on is very different than most people which is why i don't judge people i say that many times i don't judge people i'm judged a lot by how i look my eyes my my not smile all the time not laughing not joking and that's the big


Role of Anger and Motivation in Self-Transformation

The Misery of Life (01:59:39)

i'm a funny motherfucker big time but guess what right now it's easy to be happy it's easy to smile those are the good times the good times those times don't need to be trained you know i had to train myself for good times those times for most people don't need to be trained what i'm trying to give you all is the misery of sometimes we go through in life those are times we don't want to fucking talk about we want to skip forward to peace that's this fucking fuck all this let's skip all this pain and suffering and misery of real life let's let's cover it over nice big blanket and that's fine peace no sorry it's not possible got going to that fucking hell hole of life that you have that fucked you up and fix it and that's what i'm here to do you got to go to war with yourself before there's peace that's what i say in the bush you say in the book you must go to


The Journey of Self-Transformation (02:00:39)

war yourself before you find peace so i'm trying to give you tools on how to do that and i'm not considering smile and be happy about it it's a hard journey it's a real journey it's a it's a journey that's going to take you way outside of being comfortable you'd be very very uncomfortable doing what we're what we're here to do very i love that i love that story that you tell about you know showing up at the pearly gates and wanting to be evaluated based upon your potential that's what i mean i believe we're here to grow and progress and evolve and if you're not committed to that journey then i think you're missing the beauty of life and that doesn't mean it's easy because of fucking eight it is the warrior's path truly 100 percent but if you don't acclimate to challenging yourself and facing obstacles and becoming better on a consistent daily


Creating Obstacles (02:01:34)

basis then what the fuck are you doing i was a percent and sometimes you have to put the obstacle in front of you that's why i went to be right so now life's good and easy so you have to create these obstacles because the obstacle is the obstacle i have no obstacles anymore man life is good so i'm going to go up to montana or wyoming or whatever you go to like go i go to montana i said there's my obstacle so once your life is easy and everything is great it's time to go


Finding Peace with the Past (02:02:02)

online and google some obstacles to put right the fuck in front of you and when you look back on your childhood and you think about your dad do you find peace with that do you find gratitude 100 percent man for me to start this journey that had to start how to go back to where it started from and i i came from that man that man is a part of me i had to accept that had accepted a lot of my insecurities why that man beat me why that man beat my mom why that man got in my head and everybody said he had a fucked up life i had to study him and i had to realize i had to find peace with all that i had to realize that what he did he looked like he hated me he hated himself and so once you start to grow up and like i say take to different vantage point i had to forgive that man even though i didn't say sorry he never said sorry we had our last conversation at 22 years old and he died about four or five years ago when i was last time i talked to him at 22 years old but he was able to see you become successful from a distance i think it hurt him i think it hurt him because he saw me become a man a man that he was very proud of and he'd have much to do with it but once again i didn't hate him for he was the fuel beneath it all he was a lot of the fuel man but once i will say this anger was never my fuel a lot of people think that's i would think that would be maybe a big misconception about it it's easy to look at you and that guy's that guy is lit up on anger


Anger as a Motivator (02:03:35)

and resentment even back in the day so i got to say i've never said this before i was actually telling my fiance this the other day people think anger was my fucking fuel just so yeah anger can be a fuel anger got me to look into things to become better i want to show him but i'd care you one thing when you're suffering and you're fucking at the wits end and you want to fucking quit that anger is gone brother well it's also not a sustainable fuel source your mind is thinking about let's get the fuck out of here so i realized this anger ain't shit i didn't think about my dad beat me up i think about kids coming there i think about hey that's shit i thought my man this fucking water is cold as balls man i get the fuck out of here so i realized anger was no fuel for me it may have got me to say i'm gonna be somebody anger got me caught up in some serious ego trips man yeah and i'm the subject of of sustainable fuel sources uh motivations not your favorite motivation is just uh it's cockens he's so motivation i'm so motivated i'm so inspired


Motivation vs. Obsession (02:04:42)

and motivation is just kindling man it's just kindling like you know all these fires that happen there in california man so so tragic what happened out here but those fires start by a little motivation and this is what i'm looking at man it's like a like a little spark starts these big fires it was so crazy that's why i look at motivation motivation just a spark but those little sparks if somebody comes by real quick with some water that fires doubt it's out but if you come by and that little fire no one touches it and that little fire which is motivation which is kindling and that kindling grows off to like they call it one hour fuels two hour fuels 10 hour fuels 10 000 hour fuels you want that thing to boil over and catch a nice big log it's gonna burn a long time and that big long starts catching everything on fire this is your soul so motivation a lot of times can be fucking just put some water on it puts it out that motivation needs to turn into drive passion obsession to what you want to become and once you come obsession or driven it's a fucking inferno so now you got calling tons of fire fires and calling in for help for here calling for help from there and they're not putting that shit out i want that can take that thing out it's got to burn itself out but obsession is self-generated 100% another person to become obsessed not at all that has to you know be something that is cultivated deep deep inside yourself deep deep inside people never experience what it's like to be obsessed and i think we put a negative label we have one obsession oh yeah he's obsessed no it's to me it's a it's a dad gone it's a it's a compliment it's a compliment man to be in a lot of times it can't fuck you up it can ruin your life you can be obsessed but i'll tell you one thing if you want to be great you want to be a bad smotherfucker ever at which you do you could be misunderstood by everybody because you're going to be so fucking obsessed and so driven to get there that's what it takes that's the truth it takes


The Dominance of Obsession

The Power of Obsession (02:06:47)

every second of your fucking life anybody says balance yeah balance is important for a lot of fucking people it is but if you want to fucking go to that edge where people do not like you don't understand you question everything you fucking do you you've arrived when you are misunderstood to the point where fucking people think you're psycho and you're nuts and you're this and that why are you in the fucking gym at one o'clock in the fucking morning you've got to do an op for fucking 13 14 hours after rangers school man at the gym what's wrong you will never understand what is wrong with me and that's why i'm so fucking glad you don't because i'm in the right fucking spot when people don't understand you anymore you're in that spot of obsession and drive when people are like what the fuck is wrong with this guy i want to talk to you man because you're not going to get it i'm not going to get it boom don't want you to get it yeah don't want you to get it yeah it's powerful man all right we got to land this ship but i want to leave people with a couple thoughts um this is going to go up on new year's day it's the time of year where everyone's thinking about what they want their 2009 to look like 2019 to look like they should have been thinking about that a long time ago right that's not the way it works right for most people


The Importance of Mindset

Changing Your Mindset (02:08:05)

um so let's let's leave people let's let's get them you know set on a good trajectory with a couple things to think about and execute on as they like lead into january no i was at man so how about mine set yeah that's it man you have to change the dialogue within your head and one thing i guarantee you there's some stat out there about january one all that kingly that that you started all that motivation usually burn out by about 10 to 12 days later so let's see how far you can take that shit i see if you can get a fucking journal challenge from goggins to you usually it's 10 to 12 days man people always cutting man hey i want to work out program i no longer give him anymore because you can waste my fucking time because i know most people out there once that fucking one long clock goes off the wrong time of the day i'm not going to the gym right or they get the workout program but then they're like hey they hit you up again wait what kind of watch do i need to get that's right that's right that's right just keep coming every day goes by without anything going on keep coming go to the store buy a pair of shoes and merry christmas have fun with that shit call me after you lose some fucking weight running your ass in the dirt and then we'll work on some other shit right on get your base on there you go man all right cool um pleasure and an honor my friend hey thank you so much for having me on again rich i appreciate you man this is uh this is amazing um i cannot recommend this book more highly can't hurt me get the audiobook get the hard cover it's available or wherever you buy books i'll put a link in the show notes uh to it as well this book will fucking change your life i promise you man and i'm no stranger to these kind of narratives and i thought like i said at the outset of this that i knew the story i did not know the story and i was profoundly impacted by it um and also uh just so great that that our mutual friend adam is part of this oh he's the man man he did a great job of capturing your voice and i know this was you know a long journey with the two of you guys but uh it came out on top man i went through a lot of ghost writers now i hate the i don't even call him a ghost writer that's a wrong word ghost writer it's your bullshit that's why the so-called ghost writer was hand in hand right beside me doing the audiobook so you know he sees he's a lot more than ghost right he was a guy that captured a very fucked up life and he captured that shit just right together we captured some good shit so it's it's a good read yeah it's a good read awesome man all right dude until next time roger that peace roger that out [Music]


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