Episode 168: Ryan & Lindsay - Relationships | Transcription

Transcription for the video titled "Episode 168: Ryan & Lindsay - Relationships".


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Intro (00:00)

I'm Ryan Neidell, host of 15 Minutes of Freedom, your daily action guide to getting shit done. As I start every episode with my lovely wife in the studio, it's my favorite day of the week. Glad to have her here. Hi. Hi. Hi. Good to see you again. Yeah, I haven't seen you like all week. I know, right? And it's Friday. Yeah, it's been two full weeks of conversations of the one of seven, you know, going through the interview process on 60 some odd people. Yeah. So six plus hours each day on the phone. And then you're not getting home till somewhere between 830 and 930 at night. And then it's bedtime because you're shot. Yeah. Yeah. And still get up at 430, 445 the next morning. I've not seen you. So hi, honey. Hello. It's a pleasure to make your acquaintance. My name's Ryan. Yeah. Right. But in that, today's episode is just that. It's about relationships. It's about communication, relationships, kind of across the board. And I want to share that because without it being asked for, in the past week, Lindsay has been asked some questions about some relationship-based issues. Yeah. And oddly enough, so have I, through Instagram, through direct message, however you want to say it. Yeah, most of them are just DMs.

Exploring Romantic Relationships And Communication

Romantic Relationships (01:30)

Yeah. And I think it's important to touch base on this because I'm committed to adding value. And I know that Lindsay is too, where this is, I want to start this episode by saying we don't have all of our shit all figured out. No, nobody does though no and it's it's unique because we get this I get I won't speak for Lindsay this phenomenal feedback like you guys have such a happy relationship and things are so solid and admittedly we do like yeah oh yeah I've never been so happy but there's still plenty of times where I work too much our communication breaks down Lindsay's emotional like I'm sure we like our communication breaks down. Lindsay's emotional. Like I'm sure we like list four things. Like I leave fucking dishes in the sink. I'm not like, go say something. Yeah, no, I, I, I totally agree. You're not, you're not home. I get emotional. I'm more reactionary and get worked up about small things. You handle things differently than I do. Like we have to constantly communicate about those things so that we're on the same page. But some days, like in the past two weeks, we just truly haven't seen each other for more than a handful of minutes and they're not during the daylight hours. No. And in that, like intimacy starts breaking down, communication starts breaking down, and not in a way that's detrimental to our relationship, but unless it's made present in the moment, it could be. Like if this becomes a new operating procedure for the way that we interact, the compounding effect of that long enough is divorce. Sure. Oh yeah. You can't like not see your partner for days and weeks and months at a time and just have that be a new normal when we're not used to that. Right. And that created a recalibration for me of like in the way that I live my life and tool I use called the stack, like stacking over and over again about my necessity for balance in my life. Like up until Lindsay and even up until the past two and a half years, like I just didn't have balance. It was all work or it was all gym or it was all something. It was never pretty even across the board where, you know, in the past two weeks I haven't taken Gianna out on a date night. Like it hasn't happened. And you'd plan to, but then it just doesn't happen. And well, yeah, and that's just such a bullshit story. Like I didn't make it the priority that it needed to be. Like she's not going to care that I worked. Like she's not gonna remember that I fucking worked for an extra three hours. Yeah. And the last two weeks, to be honest, she's when we've come home in the evenings. Now, granted we're after school, we're go, go, go. Like most kids, you know, there's activities and things and homework and all that. So we're not home till 630 or seven most school night evenings anyway. But when we pull up in the driveway and you're not home yet, she's like, oh, where's Ryan? Like, is he kind of come home before I go to bed? And that's been a constant question the last couple of weeks because you haven't been home before she goes to bed, really.

Communication (04:02)

Yeah, because I mean, here at the office, I'm a give or take 10, maybe 1030 to the office work until six, six thirty seven. Then I'm a half hour away. And that's if I don't need gas. And if I get out and like there's a lot of ifs that build into that, if I don't make it, what has to happen? But all that spins back around into communication. And Lindsay, I've had an episode on communication before, so I won't belittle all this topic. But one of you incredible listeners had asked me very recently, actually I discovered it at the gym this morning, tucked away. Apparently if I'm not following you or something on... Yeah, it goes to message request. I've had a lot of those. It hides away and I'm scrolling through them like, wow, I have like 82 of these. I'm sorry. But nonetheless, there's this question about communication. How do you build the right communication with your partner? And the most basic answer is you make it a priority. Yeah. Like where your focus goes, your energy flows. And that's not something I came up with. That's Tony Robbins. I'll give him 100% of the credit and he probably learned it from somebody else. that's Tony Robbins. I'll give him 100% of the credit. And he probably learned it from somebody else. Like my focus has been on the one of seven. My focus has been on recording videos. My focus has been on training and automation and systems. And it's been 95% of my mental capacity every day has been on business. Yes. And because I'm focused so heavily there, I'm making almost no effort to communicate. Right. Which is very unlike you, which has been very strange for me in the last two weeks because I'm like, what the hell's going on? Yeah. What are you doing? Of course. As I'm on the phone, especially with the in-depth conversations of clients, like I put my phone on the charger, it's down on the table, I'm pacing around like I don't have it in my hands. Right. You don't see it. Right. I'm 100 percent locked and loaded and focused on the moment. I don't care about anything else. And so. Our relationship to me has gotten better consistently based off of how we focus on communication. Yeah, we really do make it a priority. So even if you're home late and it's getting, we're old people. Our bedtime is like if it gets to 10 o'clock, we're dying. So as you're yawning. Not me. I'm not yawning. Yeah, right. No proof of that. It's radio. But we at least take five to 10 minutes before we go to bed to chit chat about something. Basic stuff. At least open communication about what's gone on in the day, any kind of highlight points, and then we're out. Yeah. And I think that's admittedly the exact same thing I said to this individual. And I don't remember his name. I'm maybe trying to be coy right now. But it was something along the lines of we itemize time in every day to make sure that we have some sort of impactful communication. And that does not mean phones in our hand.

Lindsays discomfort and having the notohardconversation. (06:45)

The TV might be on in the background, but it's volumes low. Like we're looking at each other. It's not it's not passive. And then certainly once we go to bed and we're actually laying in bed and inevitably one, if not both, the dogs are trying to crawl between us and all this stuff. Like we lay there and we'll have another five to 10 minutes of actual communication. And then we retire for the evening. But the other side of that is when things aren't going so well. Like when there's the breakdown. And the breakdown can be anything. I mean I've shared on past episodes and I will touch base on it right now only because it's I know it's it will become something of value soon Lindsay just doesn't feel like herself lately right like I'm not going to dive too deep into what that is we don't even know what it is but there's something like energetically and your heart rate and all the stuff that I've covered before yeah we we touched on this before that I had some weird things going on with my heart and they thought it was related to my thyroid and whatever, but I ha I just have not felt like my normal self. And so I went to the doctor yesterday and had some tests done and now it's just a waiting game to see what the heck's going on. Exactly. But in that, in that waiting game, again, she's at the doctor yesterday. We speak midday. I don't get home, have a flat tire, some issues with the car, just crazy stuff. I don't get home until almost 9. It's probably actually 9 o'clock, which is super late for me. Which I was super worried because you said you were coming home when I talked to you at 6. And then your phone died and I couldn't get a hold of you. And I'm like, what in the hell is going on? Yeah. Nonetheless, get home. I have a bunch of stuff to do still to conclude my day. We spend some time together on the couch. We go to bed. Get up this morning. I'm out the door before everybody wakes up. We get to the office. We're here to record today. And we sit down, and I can just feel like this is not right. There's something that is not right in this moment. So literally, Kurt's in the office. He's operating the cameras right now. I'm like, Kurt the shut off the mics. Excuse us. Close the door. We got to figure this stuff out. And it's because I can feel and I'm so in tune to Lindsay but also because I don't let anything fester anymore. Like if I look back at past relationships a lot of it was being afraid to have difficult conversations. Those crucial conflict conversations I would call them. I didn't like them. Right. And a lot of that was based off – Nobody does, really. Well, no, but I had so much shame and guilt from the way I was living my life, I would never want to sit down and look somebody in the eye and ask what was wrong out of fear of the fact of they were going to say, I think you're doing X. Yeah. And me not being able to recuperate from that. Right. When it comes to you, it's like, it's instant. It's, man, you know, something's not right here. This is bullshit. Let's talk about it. Like, vet out what you're thinking. No, no, it was more because we, like, you came home and from 9 o'clock until 11 o'clock you worked. And so. And from 9.20 until 11 o'clock you slept. Yeah, I slept on the couch while you were working. But we didn't have any normal talk time yesterday. And so when you're like, man, what's going on? I hadn't talked to you. I hadn't reset on what my thoughts were from yesterday and test waiting and doctor visiting and all that stuff. And I am more reactionary than you are in those kind of things. And I get worried about stuff. So, you know, you're just like, well, you can't worry about anything till something comes back that you need to worry about. But, you know, I'm a woman. I worry about stuff. Sure. And I don't think it's a gender specific conversation. I want to share the practical tip in case you yourself might be going through something similar where you're worrying about something. So Lindsay calls me yesterday morning and she's like, I just don't quite feel right. Like these things that have went away for the past five, six weeks, they kind of feel like they're coming back. I'm super nervous, all this stuff. So let her process her emotion. She's sharing it with me. Now I go into fixing mode. Like I'm a fixer by nature. That's what I do for a living in some capacity. So, of course, that's how I go. But in that, what can we do to alter the feeling that you have right now? Because you can sit and sulk or worry. Like that is one option. Another one is to do something. So can you set an appointment with your general practitioner? Can you set an appointment with your general practitioner? Can you set an appointment with your OBGYN? Like how many people can you set appointments with to get tests ran to find some sort of answer? And you got clarity in the moment. Like, yes, those are good operating practices. I'm going to do that. We hang up. Within two hours, you're texting me like, I have this appointment on this day and this appointment on this day, that appointment on that day. And I can tell by the way that you're texting that you feel better. Oh, for sure. Like in that moment because you took action. You took some steps to figure out what's going on and so that I feel like my normal self. And I'm not dying or anything. I just haven't felt my normal energetic self. And it's not like I've never been a sick person.

Morning doctor appointment and fixing mode. (11:41)

I've never had chronic illness. I'm very fortunate. I've always been a sick person. I've never had chronic illness. I'm very fortunate. I've always been a healthy person. But like when I don't feel like going to the gym and I'm just tired, I know something's up with my body and I have to listen to that. Yeah. And so then you go to the doctor and I've back to back to back phone calls yesterday and interviews and all types of crazy stuff that go on in my normal day now. And so we speak midday and I can hear some panic in your voice, but I'm still able to, in my mind, like guide you towards a path of looking at the possibility versus the lack of possibility. Right.

The testing frame of mind. (12:12)

And then it comes full circle by this morning where all that's just gone. Like she's just essentially is worried she's going to die. Like at some point, like call it what it is. Like we don't have to run from this right now. Like your biggest fear right now in this moment would be dying, leaving Gianna without you. Well, sure. Because I've never been sick and I've never had anything wrong with me. So like anything that could be wrong with me, even just a little thyroid issue and I have just a thyroid imbalance, like, oh my God, it goes to, but that's the way I'm built. Like, oh my God, it goes to, I'm going to be dying in five days. Well, sure. But like call a spade a spade in this moment. Like we don't know what it is. Yeah. sure. But call a spade a spade in this moment. We don't know what it is. Yeah, we have no idea. That's why the test got ran. Right. But that's all about what this little practical hack is. We're sitting here in this moment before this episode and she's nervous. I can see it on her face. I'm thinking something's wrong. She tells me what it is. I say, okay, look, let's talk about what really has happened. Are you most likely going to die before you get the test results? No. And the answer was, of course, no. The doctor was not that worried about it yesterday. He wanted to run a plethora, everything from pregnancy to thyroid to cancer to probably 27 other tests. If you could name a test. Yeah, they took six vials of blood. My practitioner has been a doctor for a very long time, and he was like, I'm not going to beat around the bush or sugarcoat things or do one thing at a time. Let's just run the whole book and see what we come up with. Okay, great. Because physically he can't find anything wrong with me. And so in that formative plan, she took action and now there's the weight. Yeah. I hate the weight, but you have two ways to look at the weight. You have the way to think, oh my gosh gosh I'm spinning what if what if what if which ultimately is just a negative feedback loop it's something that it is it's terrible to be stuck in yeah you're not getting yourself closer to any desired outcome so I literally sit down in front of Lindsay and maybe somewhat coaching maybe somewhat husband maybe somewhat just the way my mind works it's like let's just walk through this logically if we came up with a plan did you execute execute it? Yes or no? Well, yeah.

Intuition in everyday life (13:44)

Yeah, of course. Okay. And in that plan, do you feel like you're a step closer or a step further away from a desired outcome? Of course, we're closer. We're waiting on test results. And so right now, as you feel a negative emotion that's surrounding this environment, is that getting you closer or further away from feeling happy? Well, of course not. I mean, I know all these things. But I'm sharing this just in case you, as you're listening, are going through something similar. Yeah, it's awesome stuff. And the thing is, is I can tell myself the same things, but it's better for me when I hear it from you. Not somebody else, because somebody else I'd tell to go pounce all probably. But it's better when I hear it from you because you don't say it to me in a coaching way you say it to me as my husband and because you know me where you're like hey this is not serving you right now and your energy is not normal and we're big on energy in our household like our energy seems to always line up and if one of us has something that's off like we instantly know it we're just connected that way so he's like you can't you can't be in this spinning loop. This doesn't work for anybody. It doesn't work for me. It doesn't work for you. And so it resets me a little bit. And it helps because I, I sometimes can't get myself out of that negative feedback loop. And I think a lot of people deal with that, you know, in your head, what you're supposed to say what you're supposed to do, and the positive affirmations you're supposed to give yourself, and the way your thoughts should lead you. But sometimes you just get stuck. And so you just need some pattern interrupt, being you today, sweetheart, to just say, hey, like reset. It's not that big of a deal. It's going to be fine. We're going to figure out what's going on and, you know, back to your normal self. Yes. As my lovely wife hijacks this small part of the conversation, I love you. I love you too. It's nice. It's good. But no, what this ends up being for you is the ability to take stock of where you're at versus the desired outcome that you hope for in any situation that you may be facing. And so you formulate a plan and that plan you in the moment decide, does that serve me or not? Obviously, if you execute the plan, it's because it serves you. Then along what I'll call this hero's journey of going from uncertainty to certainty, there's going to be roadblocks and stumbling blocks along the way where you're forced to take a path. Do you go back to the start, or do you continue towards the original desired outcome? And in that, you have to recalibrate by asking yourself essentially a series of questions. Does this get me closer or further away to my desired outcome? Are the feelings that I'm experiencing right now getting me closer or further away? Are they making me attract or repel things that are ultimately going to make my life better? And you take actual stock of what's going on. Not this bullshit social media high filter, like my life is great stuff. Like this is real what we just went through here. And the fact is, we don't know what the tests are going to say. But until we know what the tests are going to say, between now and four days from now, only because of the weekend, we're recording this on a Friday, there is nothing and no amount of worry, concern, or negative patterns that are going to change it. Like I said to her, pray it doesn't happen. But if you have cancer, if results come back and you have thyroid cancer, you have it right now. Right. Like that's just life. And then we'll form another plan upon getting the results and we'll deal with that and process through it the same way. Right. But all this still spins back to at the most basic level communication, which seems to be the bane of most people's existence, not only in relationships with the opposite sex, but at work, but in friendships. It's like we're all so fucking afraid to say what you actually want to say like I'll call that intuition so through meditation and things that I do the reading just how I feel as a as a man every day when I feel something it's almost like there's a certain amount of word vomit like oral diarrhea such a nice word right Right, but it just has to come out. It's different if I'm attacking you or attacking someone. Right. But I never am. I'm not ever coming in any situation with malice or ill intent. I want everybody to be better around me. And so I just ask a question. Ask her to leave. Sure, could that have been looked at as rude to Kurt? I suppose. But in that moment, it doesn't matter because you trumped Kurt. I get it. Yeah. But there's so many other places in life where most of the time, up until years ago, I couldn't have done that. I know. I'm so proud of you, babe. Well, thank you. But this is all teachable. These are skills that have taken time under tension to expand into the fact of being able to use these as just how I live my life or how we live our life. Right. But then is that – touch base on that text message from – or not text message, the direct message from the follower, one of you that are listening, about communication, focusing on it, making it a priority and spending time and saying what comes to your mind when you need to say it. Don't sugarcoat stuff. If your partner won't allow you to actually communicate the way that you feel you need to, take real quick stock of if that's a long-term plan or not. Because do you want to be a watered down, weak version of yourself? Yeah. I'm going to go with no on that one, but that's everybody's own personal choice.

How to handle infidelity (19:22)

Yeah. But in all that, you then got messaged about. I got messaged.

Infidelity story (19:28)

And I get this question a lot about infidelity in relationships and how to handle that. And because we've gone through it, you know, what that looks like, what you tolerate, how do you get past it. And so really my broad stroke answer to this, because I don't know this person outside of social media, and then there were several. I can't specifically say one person, but a few I know and a few that I don't. But the question is, how do you handle it?

Another persons cheating story (19:55)

And I think that the situation, my answer I gave, was different for everybody. You have to figure out what serves you personally. my answer I gave was different for everybody. You have to figure out what serves you personally. And I can only use our experience as an example because that's what I've been through personally. And I don't want to say something that I have not experienced or don't know about. But for me, when you and I were first together, I was the other woman without knowing it. You were in a whole nother relationship that I wasn't aware of until she showed up at the door. And so I was that other person. I wasn't cheated on on that at that point. I mean, I was and I wasn't because you to me, you were in a relationship with me. Yeah. I mean, you didn't know you were the side piece. I did not have any idea I was the side piece. No, I mean, it's trying to be that main chick. Yeah. But it was it wasn't like I had you around. I'm like, hey, just so you know, you're like my jump off. You're over here on the side piece. No, I mean, it's screwed up to say that. Trying to be that main chick. Yeah, but it wasn't like I had you around. I'm like, hey, just so you know, you're like my jump off. You're over here on the side. Yeah, no, right. It was completely separate. Like, I was just lying to everybody. Yes. Yeah. But in my mind, you and I are in a relationship. So I felt cheated on, even though to begin with, you were with somebody else. And I was the one that came in unknowingly. And then the second time that it happened, that it was with the same woman, for me it was I knew that you were better than that. So what I said to these people is, look, you have to do what serves you first. You have to understand what you will tolerate, understand what you expect as a respect level. But for me, when I looked at you, I understand what you will tolerate understand what you expect as a respect level but for me when I looked at you I said to you I don't care whether or not you and I are going to be together what I care about is that I love you as a human being and I know you are capable of more than this like you're being a huge piece of shit and I know you're not a piece of shit deep down you just don't understand how to not be this way. And I know that there's more inside of you. So regardless of whether or not you and I continue a relationship, I want more than this kind of behavior and this kind of life for you. Because this is not going to serve you for your life. You can't behave like this long term. And the biggest thing was, is most of these people have issues with social media, right? Their boyfriends or girlfriends are DMing other people or going out with other people and texting and all the other kind of stuff. And I've said this before, if you're not going to have a conversation that you're having in front of your partner, then you shouldn't be having it. If you're, you know, somebody of the opposite sex DMs you and you don't answer them in a respectful way to your partner, then you shouldn't be having that conversation. If you are having that conversation, there is an issue that you need to recognize internally within yourself that you're not being satisfied by something in your current relationship. Don't know what that is. It's got it. You know, why are you looking at me like that? I'm just waiting. I got stuff to say. I just don't think that. I mean, I think that there's not a rules for the infidelity. It's basic communication. You both have to be real and honest with each other and direct on what you want, what you need, and what you're not getting. There's a reason that somebody cheats. There's always a reason, whether it's an insecurity within themselves or something that they're not fulfilled with by the partner they're with.

Lindsay found out (23:10)

But they have to be honest with what those things are or it can't fix itself. And if you are both committed to fixing it and you're both honest about what broke it, then you have a chance. If neither one of you are fully committed, you might as well just cut the cord and take a walk because it's not going to work. You cannot lie and you cannot cheat and you cannot be dishonest or leave pieces out if you expect to fix something. Go ahead, honey. You sure? I see you waiting. You good? I'm just digesting.

Go to the Dark Place (23:49)

I'm just eating that savory treat right there. That's right. It's wonderful. So on my side of the table, we've touched on this before, so I don't want to belittle a topic and bore you, but I had these mental hangups of having truly difficult conversations, and I had built this story around in my mind that I could somehow, with now my ex, have some sort of level of communication based off the length of time I had been with her and the ties I had inside of her family and social circle, that I could somehow wind this down in such a way that allowed me to gracely, eloquently step away so I didn't have to be looked at as a bad guy. And I could still have communication with people inside of her circle that I thought were important because I had built this completely bullshit story. Right. And so some of you listening are like, man, that's just all bullshit. And I get why you would say that in your situation. I might say the same thing, but that is my actual truth. That's not something that I manufactured. That was the story, the feedback loop, the limiting factor that I had convinced myself to be true. And so after getting caught the first time, I knew that the relationship I was in upon meeting Lindsay was not the right relationship. If I'm honest with myself, especially now multiple years removed, I mean four or five years removed. Right. It's been a long time. I knew it wasn't right. Obviously, that's why I was four years into a relationship and was not engaged or married.

Why Rus Eats it Up (25:01)

I just call it what it is. But in that, I was too weak to ever break away. So I would go out and I've said this example multiple times. In my mind, that person, these arbitrary rating systems are only for sake of comparison. But let's say we all want a 10. Like we want a 10. Like we want whatever our version of the perfect person is who we're seeking. So in my mind, you start dating someone and you've built them up to be a 10. And over time, that number gets down to whatever it gets down to. If relationships implode, it's because it gets down below a level that's lower than your threshold. But that would happen in my relationships. And what would happen is time would erode. And then instead of admitting that this relationship was over, and let's say that person went from a 10 down to a six, I would then go seek to find the four pieces that I needed with somebody else and restart over with another, in my mind, 10, waiting for the 10, but knowing, I would say to most people, if I could just combine multiple women at the same time, it'd be perfect. If I had this person's this, and that person's that, and this other person's other stuff, then put them all together, it'd be perfect. And so in saying that, that's the insanity of the life that I was living. Yeah, it's crazy. But that's what it was. Try to fill your plate with eight different pieces of things. Yeah. It's lunacy at this point because I see this entire other side of fulfillment that I have. But in the moment, I didn't even realize it was possible. But it wasn't possible because I wasn't allowing it to be possible because I was giving energy to too many different people at too many different times and never fully allowing any of them to be 100% of everything. Right. Which is crazy because I sit across from you, my wife, who I wouldn't change anything in the world about. Had any of those people I just went all in with for long enough, there's a chance I could not be here right now. Sure. And so we switch and then I talk about the, okay, the second time. Well, there's a period of two, three months that pass where I'm still like, I'll say juggling two balls I'll say juggling two balls. And the juggling two balls is still having these communications and conversations and spending time with this other person. But ultimately, Lindsay now is like, she's my girlfriend. She's the one I want to be with. Again, weakness of character, weakness in personality.

Examining Behavior And Mindset In Cheating

Justifying the Elliptical, Always Changing Something (27:19)

I'm just weak over there. And I didn't know at this time. When there was the blow up when she first showed up at the house, I thought that that was pretty much the end of it. I mean, there were some few things here and there that you told me about, but other than that, I thought that was the end. So it wasn't like I was staying thinking that you were just juggling two people. No, and I was tiptoeing and tap dancing. At this point, some selective memory loss. I don't remember how often I was seeing somebody else, like seeing the other person. I can't say even that that relevant at this point. But upon having the tough conversation with Lindsay, like we sat there and continued to communicate. Like I didn't get defensive. I didn't blow up and yell. Like I didn't go to all my default operating procedures when she confronts me. Right. I'm like, all right, hold on. Let me pull out my phone, put this on speaker, and like end this other thing right now. Let me get that off the table because I don't even want it. So literally in our living room, confronted, we have our part of the conversation, call the other party, I end it. Like right there. Game over, done. But as I've shared openly with at least people that I train or coach or mentor or whatever you want to say, it still took another four to six months to really unwind all that mental baggage of how that relationship really was versus this idealistic version that I had it built in my mind. Correct. And I have a lot of people do that. A lot of people do that. Yeah, because it was – call it what it is, especially as you're listening. do that. Yeah. Cause it was, call it what it is, especially as you're listening, when you spend four or five years with somebody, whether it's a healthy four or five years or not, and that relationship ends, there's certain stories that you have built for yourself that you might need to retell yourself in order to move on to the next best version. Yeah. I did that. I mean, I was married previously. Absolutely. For a long time, I had to relearn some of the things that was scary and it was hard to unwind those stories and look at my then marriage for what it really was. Enough so that I had to walk away. Like that's a real thing. Yes. But there's a couple like golden rules that I feel like now as a man that I can share from what I've been through about infidelity kind of across the board okay hit me first one is in going backwards if you spend the time men to go out and shop for a ring to spend the time with your partner maybe you did it on your own like I did with Lindsay. Don't care. But you have a ring in your possession. And you built all the way into that. And then with that ring, you get down on one knee or whatever way you deem appropriate and you ask that person to marry you. If you have cheated or want to continue to cheat, you should not have ever given her that ring. Correct. Like that to me, when you cross that threshold, that's a commitment where the level, especially for a woman, as a man, when I asked Linda to marry me, of course it was emotional, it was exciting, it was all this stuff, but it was more, admittedly, like a means to an end. That's jacked up. It's truthful. I know. You've said it before. I'm just having the reaction because I'm sure some people that are listening are like, what the hell? But it's true. Men don't think the same way that women do. Yeah, I get it. Cool, whatever. We got engaged. I'm excited. We get this fun shiny new ring and we're all excited with our girlfriends. Yeah, it's not the same. But you get to that point and it's, okay, you've taken the emotional bond with a woman to a level that has not been experienced by her in your relationship before. Even if she'd been married before. So now she's automatically seeing like five years down the road and maybe kids. She's seeing 10 years. She's seeing college graduation. She's saying, seeing your daughter's getting married. She's like, for her to say yes, it requires all that. For us men, it's like, man, I just went out and bought a ring and I put it on her finger. I'm good. Like that's a thought process really. It's so archaic and like cave man-ish. But it's truthful. It is. I know. And so I will encourage you men that when you get to the point of putting a ring on somebody's finger, if you're going to step out, don't put the ring on her finger. And if you did come home and say, look, this is, this just can't be. Yeah. Like chalk it up as a loss because it sucks and people don't want it. The fear of loss is real for something like that. And they don't want to because I literally had this conversation with someone that DM to me about it, engaged to a person and constantly cheating, heavy drinking, cheating, not coming home. And that's like, you can't, you can't tolerate that stuff, but you also have to have a conversation about what it is that's happening there.

Be Honest (31:46)

It's not just like, you know, Oh, blow up at him and it's going to get better. You have to have a sit down conversation as adults and say, what in the hell is happening? Why is this happening? What are the reasons? And you have to be honest. And if neither one of you can be honest about that kind of stuff, you are not a match out the door. Absolutely. Call it because you cannot sign up for a lifetime of that. No. And as I keep, I'll say regressing backwards more to the infantile stages of a relationship, as an A-type personality, as a salesman, as a closer, as a producer, there was a part of me that always got off on the fact of knowing that I could close. So sometimes- You're still like that. Yeah, but not when it comes to women. Yeah, that's true. So what would happen, I could be in an innocent situation where I was not actively seeking to have communication with anybody. This has not happened in my life, but I'll tell a story as though it has. It's not me placating it. It truly hasn't happened that I can think of. But if I'm at a restaurant with a friend of mine and we're having dinner and the waitress is flirty, maybe attractive, maybe not, doesn't really matter, I have two options in that moment. If I think that she's paying more attention to me than my friend, I can play into that, look a little too long, say those things that I know will press her emotional hot buttons. I'm not wearing a ring because I'm not married yet. And I can start tiptoeing down this path towards debauchery. Like I know where this is going to end up. Like the minute I start pushing these buttons, there's only two things that can really happen. I guess three. The woman can get offended and leave. She can get more turned on and give me her number. Or she can get more turned on and give me her number and we sleep together. Yep. That's it. There's no fourth outcome. That's what this is. But there's this bullshit story that you tell yourself like, oh, it's no big deal. Like I just want to see that I still got it. There's no fourth outcome. That's what this is. But there's this bullshit story that you tell yourself like, oh, it's no big deal. I just want to see that I still got it. so my only concern because I'm the only woman that you're going to see naked sleep with shut up he's making this face Doug you better switch to this face right now when he does this editing but that's it I'm the last person for you and you're the last person for me so I better make sure that strip clubs Melissa oh baby we'll always go to strip clubs with you it's okay I mean we can't we can't say okay I'm kidding I'm kidding I mean I'm sure clubs are fine, but what I'm saying is like, I don't care if Joe Schmo at the grocery store looks at me and thinks I'm hot.

Insecurity Loop (34:07)

I care that my husband is like, damn, I get, I get to take her home every day. Like that is my wife and holy shit. She, she's hot. I think she's super attractive. Like I care that you find me attractive. I don't care that other people find me attractive. So if you're out there fishing, look in what you're not getting fulfilled with in your relationship because you always make me feel beautiful. Yeah, you are. Thanks. You're welcome. But there's this whole insecurity loop that also fills in for most of us men as well. Like when I go back and figure out like when my childhood insecurities really started coming about and when I didn't feel that as well. Like when I go back and figure out when my childhood insecurities really started coming about and when I didn't feel that I was valued and when I didn't feel like I could get women, then it built all these stories that then create themselves where I'm seeking external validation. And so it's this really strange thing where I want somebody to want me. Yeah. And so what happens is, sure, Lindsay's beautiful, all this stuff. But when she's out and I'm insecure, I'm not. If I was, I had been before. And then let me explain why.

The mentality of cheating (35:35)

If I'm doing things that are unscrupulous, if I'm having conversations are going too long, if I'm maybe asking for women's phone numbers, if maybe I'm communicating with other women through some sort of platform, the minute my wife, girlfriend at that point, fiance in between, goes out with her friends, I am instantly panicked because I assume that she's doing the same thing that I do when I'm not in her presence. So then I start calling her more. I start texting her. I start pointing down more at her of like, what are you doing? Who are you with? Who are you texting right now? Yeah. What's going on in your DMs? When's the last time? Oh, man. If you were like that at any point, that would have just driven me up a wall. No, but it's the it's the normal cycle. Like there were certainly points. And again, we've covered this. I don't want to drag other people into it, but it's also death by association. Like, ladies, if you're hanging out with a dude and you know his friends are all dogs, like you just know like all they're doing is going out and knocking down a bunch of different chicks and you know that. There's a high probability that there's some part of him that is around that, like that's okay. And again, we all can grow and change. If you want to judge me from who I was six years ago versus who I am now, I would be screwed. Like I'm not the same person. So it's not that if you've cheated, no, but it's not if you've cheated that you're damned for life for what you've done. Like I truly do believe you can change when your why is great enough. And my why is the fact like I didn't want to feel like that anymore. I would love to say it was you or not want to hurt your feelings, but I was so tired of carrying around endless lies and communications and manipulations. It takes so much energy to keep your shit straight. Oh, it's atrocious, but that's what goes on. And so this, you know, as you shared with me this story that we're referencing in this past week, like, man, this dude's engaged, this woman, and again, I don't know either one of them. No. But just from the outside, it's like, man, homeboy, if you're getting quote unquote mad, if you're faking an argument to the point that you then think it's okay to not come home, fuck you. Yep. Like, straight up, guy. Like, if you are playing this game and putting the shame and guilt onto your fiance that something is so bad that you're now not going to come home and it's okay then to justify you staying with another woman because of something that quote unquote your fiance did, fuck you. Yep. Like you're a piece of shit. Like you're not, you're not putting your shame and guilt. You're putting your own story on somebody else. It's one thing to go out and be a dog. It's one thing if you're not fulfilled. It's one thing if you want to cheat. I get it. But now you are mentally destroying another person, making them have these fucked up feedback loops because of your insecurities. Right. And then they turn around and are worried, insecure, mentally screwed, not knowing what to do feeling disrespected feeling unloved and then that turns them into a nag in your eyes right you know what are you doing where are you going why are you drinking so much what's going on because they're afraid that you're going to hurt them again so it's like this terrible pattern interrupt that just keeps going around and around no there is no pattern it's terrible pattern there's no keeps going around and around. No, there is no pattern interrupt. It's a terrible pattern. There's no interrupt is what I meant to say. That it just keeps going around in the same loop all the time to where she has to worry if you're going out with your friends, which is just no way to live for anybody. And, yeah, you can have some conversations about why that's happening, but you actually have to want to change it. And you shouldn't ever, I agree with you, shouldn't ever put your own insecurities and shame and guilt on someone else and make it their fault because you can't man up about what's wrong with you. Coming from a man that used to do that. Right. So I want to make sure as I'm telling this man to go fuck himself. You were that guy. I was that guy. So I don't want to, I want to make sure this is not some ivory tower conversation. Like I own my shit. There were plenty of times that I'm not proud of where I would use hot buttons and triggers that I knew mentally would mess with a woman so I could justify my behavior and not feel so guilty about it. Yeah. And everybody has been guilty of doing that. But I mean, if you really want a true solid relationship or if you're engaged and you want a solid marriage, if you have an argument, both of you have to deal with it straight on. I mean, it doesn't have to be in that moment. You can both take a moment. Everybody deals with their reset time the same, but you have to talk about it. I'm going to even push back on you with that one. Like this, this is, this is good. If I got engaged to you and we're fighting at the point that one of us has to take that big of a time out, like we think that we need to separate ourselves for hours. Like I need to go blow off steam. And that happens more than one time, like ever in your engagement. Don't get married. Yeah. Don't get married. It doesn't coming from somebody who has been married and divorced. Do not get married because it doesn't get better. It only gets worse. Those things do not fix themselves. No, I mean that's just crazy to me. Like communication, I don't care how mad you have ever been at me and vice versa. There's been two or three times in our relationship, and I only know the number because it's laughable how small it is. Yeah, that you've been mad at me or I've been mad at you. But like that I've been truly, truly mad at you for something. And even then I didn't leave. Like we still sat there and spoke about, I might want to do a different part of the house. I might've thought about stuff. I shouldn't have never raised my voice. And granted, I'm not saying that everybody has to live the way that I'm living, but running from something like truly just turning your back on your partner, that is building behavioral patterns and expectations that are only going to get worse over time because then human nature would tell you that when there's an argument, your partner is going to be afraid to argue with you because they don't want to see you leave because then there's an abandonment issue that comes. Correct. So then they're not being their true selves and they don't really voice their true opinions because they're afraid you're going to say, screw you and walk away and go sleep with someone else.

Reserve, fear and abandonment (41:05)

Yeah. And even if we don't, let's say we don't get to the sleeping part, sleeping with somebody else. And there's also this other side of things that when you get engaged to somebody or you're committed in a relationship, I would assume you're finding that person to be truly gorgeous. Whatever your version of gorgeous is. I've always liked dark hair, dark skin, busty, never really cared about a backside, little spicy, feisty, whatever.

Katie Vandergheys Big Episode Questions (41:36)

I happen to find what I'm looking for in front of me. That's right. But in that, I have to assume that when that person leaves my presence, that I am probably not the only person on the planet that views my wife that way. Correct. It could be two other people in my town. It could be 200 or 200,000. two other people in my town, it could be 200 or 200,000. But in that, if I'm doing the right thing and I'm living the right way and I'm treating her the best way that I know possible and I'm listening to her and communicating with her, I assume that the minute she leaves my presence, every guy is wanting to sleep with her. That's what goes on in my head. If a guy's looking at her, he wants to sleep with her. Cool. That's just how it works for me. But if I walk into every frame and every situation with that mindset, it makes it super easy to never care. Because, okay, at the end of the day, you're still coming home to me. If I walk into the gym and I see you talking to a guy and I don't know the guy, yeah, okay. Like, hey, man, I'm Ryan. What's up? Yeah, that would never happen without me, Billy. Let me introduce you to my husband. Yeah, that would never happen without me, Billy. Let me introduce you to my husband. And even if it did, it's like the security that we've built in by the amount of communication that we've had for so long, I don't care. We joke about if some crazy stuff goes on in one of our DMs or somebody gets a message. Like every once in a while, even with all the stuff that we post, even with this podcast, Lindsay, not so much me. I can think of one or two times. Still, we'll get some random dude poking her on Facebook. Yeah, I honestly think most of them are fake accounts because anybody that actually knows us, you have to be foolish to try to come up on me. Yeah, but even then, there's been people that have been in our lives that will still just tiptoe or tap dance just to see. Oh, yeah. Not even knock on the door and see if it'll open, but maybe just gently like three o'clock in the morning, try to jiggle the handle and see if it's locked. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Just to see. And it's there's just no part of that that should matter if you're doing things the right way. Like that's life. Like, would you want to men specifically? I guess it's women, too. Would you want to be with the guy or girl that doesn't get hit on by anybody else? Oh, hell no. Wouldn't that make you assume that the person that you Would you want to be with a guy or girl that doesn't get hit on by anybody else? Oh, hell no. Wouldn't that make you assume that the person that you're – like you might be settled a little too low? Like it's screwed up to say, but like that's how my mind works. Yeah, no. I mean I see women – you see women are in this fourth rate sometimes as men. There are a lot of ballsy women out there. But I see women check you out all the time. As a matter of fact, the other day in the gym, you were walking into the locker room and there were two women in front of me and you were walking in front of them. I think I was talking to somebody and you like had to get in the shower. I don't know, but we got separated at the bottom of the stairs and you walked into the locker room and these two women are walking ahead. I mean, they're walking to the locker room. They're like, did you see that guy? I mean, Jesus. And I was like, thank you. That's my husband. And they started dying, like cracking up. And I'm like, I, they were like, good for you. I'm like, I know. It's really fantastic. She pays me a lot to stick around. That's how this works. She's the one with the money. It's good. This is awesome. But yeah, I mean, that happens all the time to you. You just, women talk kind of more behind closed doors. So I get to hear people, you know, check out my husband. I'm like, I get it. Yeah, he's super hot. Yeah. And I'll progress this to one more, I'll say uncomfortable part.

Experiences And Perceptions Of Relationships

Threat-to-relationship success: Being around cleavage."" (44:44)

And maybe not so uncomfortable as men. I certainly can't speak for women. I realized the fact that somewhere in our genetic code, we are meant to spread a seed, like just straight up, like go back over time. Like we are not supposed to necessarily be monogamous creatures. Yeah. And so it takes not supposed to necessarily be monogamous creatures. Yeah. And so it takes work and commitment to be monogamous. Now, that doesn't mean that if you're at the gym and you're working out and you have your headphones on and your hat on and you look over and there's a woman in the tight yoga pants that everybody seems to wear and she's wearing a tank top and the top half of her breasts are hanging out like you're probably going to look. Yeah. I would expect you to look. We're men. We notice. You can appreciate someone's beauty. You don't have to gawk or fawn or go up and even have a conversation but you can look in the mirror. You can be respectful like as a man like I wonder what that looks like without clothes on. And you think it. You process it for a second. And then you go back to focusing on the actual relationship and the thing that matters, which is your wife. Yeah. Same thing as we get into the pornography conversation. And I think this is another topic. All these things take you away from the place where you should be finding your power, which is in your partner. I don't care if you're dating, engaged, or married. It creates this unrealistic view of what it should be. Right, because you have to think about that woman in the gym, or even for women, that guy in the gym that you see as attractive, it is no different than when you first saw your partner. You thought they were attractive. You wouldn't have gone out with them if you didn't think they were attractive to begin with. But now you're 10 years into a marriage, you have two kids and it doesn't matter that that person is still the same, whether or not they look a little different or whatever, but you have to think that guy in the gym that you think attractive, that you think is attractive, he's not always going to be that nice little pretty little picture. If you were going to go over and talk to him and oh, what it would be like with him? Well, guess what? He would still be the guy that eventually gets to the house shoes all the time that in 10 years is still going to be in the same place that your current partner's in because everybody is a human being. So you can look great and you can find them attractive, but you don't have to take it all the way down that path because eventually you all end up in the same place. But it's how you build the bond and the relationship that you have that makes you see your partner how you do. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And in light of that, like I think this is more prevalent in the male side of our conversation, the biggest shifts that have happened in my life are when I stopped watching porn. Hmm. Because porn creates this like hypersexual reality. I learned something new today. Yeah. And it's, it's not, again, I'm not disparaging porn or like, uh, this isn't so much about the whole act of what porn is and if it's good or bad, it's more of the fact that as I'm in a committed relationship, if I'm sneaking away or taking my spare time or whatever it is, and I'm like, as a guy, because I built these patterns and these feedback loops, as I'll call them, that I've shared on past episodes started at 10 years old. So when I started looking at porn at 10, it becomes like a mechanized part of my life. It's almost like going to the gym, which is going to sound super crazy. I know to some of you women, but it just, It's almost like going to the gym, which is going to sound super crazy, I know, to some of you women. But it's something that you just do because, okay, I'm home alone. No one's here. I've got a computer. I've got an internet connection. I've already had lunch. Let's look at some porn. Kurt's laughing in the corner. That's how this works. That's how it worked for me. And I think I know I'm not the only guy. And so you just look. And then when you look and then, you know, when you look, you end up doing whatever you do to yourself. That's just part, that's just this game. But in that, it creates this number one, potentially unrealistic expectation of what a woman should look like, what sex should be like, where those people at the base level are paid to perform. Oh yeah. Like it's a performance. And so then you calibrate and your wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, don't, don't, it doesn't matter. They come home and you're sexually charged or whatever. And then you, you, you get in that moment and it's not the same. And so now you talk yourself out of in your head, like, man, I wonder if I can go find somebody that performs like what I saw earlier. Because the sex doesn't seem as good as what you just saw. Now what you saw was a paid performance. That's like saying that you're going out in the backyard to play tackle football and you're not performing quite at the level of the NFL. Exactly. Exactly. Like you're playing flag football with a couple of guys in the backyard on a Sunday. And for some reason you're not getting, you know, televised on NBC. Oh, shucks. Yep. It's wild to me.

The Effects of Long-Term Travel (49:30)

And so as I started focusing more on not having that be part of my life and focusing on taking that energy and pushing it all into my wife. That's right. Man, that was not meant to come out that way. Like it's not even a double entendre. Like my word selection sometimes is just horrible. I just gave you the eyebrow on that one. Holy mackerel. As I'm taking that energy that I would expend elsewhere and focusing that energy on spending it with my girlfriend, fiance, and then wife. There it is. Like life just got easier because the expectations diminished and our connection increased. And it's, you know, you can create your own systems and patterns and things that could be valuable because the thing I hear from guys, well, what about when I travel? Like I travel for my work. What is it with traveling? Because when you used to travel all the time, my girlfriends would be like, do you think he's sleeping around with a bunch of people because he with traveling? Because when you used to travel all the time, my girlfriends would be like, do you think he's sleeping around with a bunch of people because he's traveling and that's what he's like? But your girlfriends would cheat when they would travel. Right. Right, right, right, right. Not my current girlfriends. I'm just, but yes. No, I'm not casting dispersions. I mean, that was part of the deal. Like when they left home, like cats away, the mice will play. Like that was their thing. For sure. So the assumption is another guy does that. But I hear that a lot from guys and women with their husbands to get the thing with the traveling. What's with the traveling? Well, like for me, the traveling, it's not that I was going to cheat on you with traveling. For me, it was, I'm talking about porn consumption. Like when I would travel to another city, especially when it was custom clothing, like I'm driving six, eight hours to Chicago. I work the entire time. I call you as I get to the hotel. It's midnight or one o'clock in the morning. I'm up on the road at six. Like some sort of sexual connection with another person doesn't even dawn on me. What does dawn on me is I wake up in the morning. I have a healthy libido and my testosterone levels at that point are very high. And so I wake up, you know, with the flag raised. Yeah. And so there's choices and options there. And as a man, I'm always going to, you know, shake my own hand and do what I got to do.

Should I always create Magic? (51:31)

And in that moment, I'm trying to say this as PG as I can. I know. Flog the dolphin, you know, whatever you want to say. It's dying again. We're entertaining Kurt today. Yeah. But yes, yeah, I get it.

Creating Essential Dealbreakers (51:47)

Everybody gets it. But even in that, like, okay, you and I have a relationship. If I want to pour that energy and if I need that stimulation, I should have and I can share with you, hey, look, when I travel, I want to remember you in a certain other light. Like, can we create some magic together that I lock down, nobody sees, I'm not going to share with anybody. But when I travel, I want to be connected to you and what I got at home versus something else. I started stacking all those things up on top of each other. These were all these tools to make it so I never cared about stepping out. Like all the triggers, all the little events that could have led to that. It wasn't even that you were forcing me to do it. It just started to make sense to me. It's like, okay, if I don't look at porn all the time, I'm not confused about what a blonde-haired chick would look like with no clothes on because I'm married to, dating, engaged to a brunette chick. So that goes away. And when I start unfollowing all types of people on social media, we're like, those aren't like, okay, so there's a local girl that i would find attractive that i follow on social media that i don't need that safety net i don't need to i don't care what's i don't i'm gonna make up a name it doesn't matter the name sammy suzy make something up i don't care what the name is i don't care what this person's doing in columbus at this moment because I don't want to be with that person. Unfriend. Unfollow. Stop liking the pictures. It's like you start stacking all this stuff on top of each other, and it makes it so it's is lying to you, it is more work for us to stay monogamous at some base level than it is to not be monogamous. Women are the opposite. You want to have a kid, raise a kid, have a family, be protected, be at home. The majority of the women, I think. Yeah, I've always liked just having one person. For sure. And men, we just look at like, let's go out and just see what everything looks like, what everything does. Let's see what's shaking out there, huh? Let's see what's popping off. How'd that work for you? Well, that's the thing. I never was like the hound. Like I never. I know. I cared a lot about knowing that I could or having the communications or always having like this like potential Rolodex of maybe if I tried hard enough, this, that, the other could happen.

Mens Horror Stories (54:07)

I never cared about going out and like, Oh, tonight's the night I need to score me another one. I'm going to give me one. That's so strange because that's under super creepy. So many guys are like that. It's just, I don't, I, I don't get it. And women are like that too.

Women Can Be Creepy Like Too (54:17)

I don't mean to just smash that on men. You just hear about it with men more. For sure. For sure. So I think as we bring this awkwardly unique conversation to a close today that's bounced all over the place, it's important to communicate what you want and what you need in the moments. Not in a moment, in the moment. Take your two deep breaths.

Honesty And Directness

No Bullshit (54:47)

Reframe all the way back to what we talked about with Lindsay's potential feeling unwell. Is your current emotionally charged self, is it serving the desired outcome? If my goal in dating Lindsay is to one day be engaged to Lindsay, if I yell at her and call her any number of explicatives, is that going to get me closer or further away from that desired outcome? If the answer is further away, I should probably not do it. If the answer is closer, it's going to serve me to do it. And you just keep trying to make momentary decisions about emotions and communication through that scope. And then you end up with something like Lindsay and I have after four and a half or five years and a rocky six or eight months to start with. Yeah, we didn't just snap our fingers and end up in this super solid marriage. Like it's taken a lot of work and a lot of time and a lot of communication. I know he's fussing at me like it's not a lot of work, but the work. Did it ever really feel like work other than the first six months? Well, I was just going to say the work never really felt like work because we have always had a basic, after our first six months, bullshit. We have a respect level for each other where we always make sure we check in with our partner to see what's up.

Conclusion And Emotional Expression

Woody Gets Fired Up (55:57)

It's crazy. All the conversations and all the podcasts and all the podcasts and all the things that we do, most of everything boils down to communication in all aspects of life. And I'm the man. And you're the man. There it is. That's just how it is. I'm just a fucking man. You were lucky to be married to me. Well, it goes both ways there. Not really. Oh, 100% it does. Don't fire me up right now. I'm kidding. But, I mean, truly, we% it does. Don't even, don't, don't fire me up right now. I'm kidding. But I mean, truly we, we make the time. It hasn't felt like work because we just do the same shit every day for each other. The checking in the, I'm here to support you. What can I help you with? What's going on in your day? Like those are constant things. And that's, I mean, that's just the way we have always been. So I guess the work doesn't really feel like work, but it does take work to get there. And with that, if you want to go out, do the work with your partner, do the work on yourself, communicate with those that are important to you. What ends up happening every day, Lindsay? You get shit done.

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