How Becoming World Champion Brought Me To My Lowest Point : Israel Adesanya | E126 | Transcription

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Introduction

Intro (00:00)

Could you do me a quick favour if you're listening to this? Please hit the follow or subscribe button. It helps more than you know, and we invite subscribers in every month to watch the show in person. ♪ UFC, middleweight champion ♪ ♪ Is my hell ♪ ♪ I'm a tiger ♪ - Oh shit. I know when it's all said and done when I'm dead. My name will be remembered in history. Why does that matter? Guys like us, we're not meant to fit in. We're meant to stand out. But I felt it. It's addicting. I need to do something that's gonna just tame the beast. If not, it's gonna seep in other ways. I wouldn't want it to in my life. Oh, you happy? I think 2013 was my great depression. I wasn't able to fight and then I just felt like I don't deserve it. This world, one thing I've seen, they'll build you up and then tear you down. People naturally just wanna see you fail. I had to take a hard look at myself and I put that pressure on myself like, watch this. I don't feel like I have anything to hide. I put things out there that I probably shouldn't sometimes. But that's my world being vulnerable when I'm just like, this is me. So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett and this is the DiR ever CEO. I hope nobody's listening. But if you are, then please keep this yourself. Israel. - Yes. - Thank you for being here, massive inspiration for me in so many ways and I've watched your rise over the years with inspiration and admiration for so many reasons. Reason number one, we have a shared heritage in the fact that we're both from - On what nature? - I'm half Nigerian, you're Nigerian as well. - So. - And your story as I read it, it sounded so bizarrely like my story in so many ways. And then the other, I mean, I could, there's an exhaustive list of reasons why you've inspired me personally, but then seeing what you've done with yourself as a brand, as a marketer, again, inspired me in a completely different way. And I'll never forget, and I paid it for my girlfriend last night, your entrance against Robert Whittaker - The first time. - The first time. - Yeah. - And I'm like, this guy is breaking the rules. - Yeah, the entrance, for me, that was, I felt like that was my way of staying away from the fight in the way, 'cause I know that night Robert was just like stewing over the fight. - Yeah. - He was sleeping, he wouldn't, you know, not, he wasn't sleeping, I'm sure he was just worrying about the fight, thinking about the fight, just thinking about, but for me, I was literally, I fell asleep with my phone in my hand, watching my rehearsals for that entrance, like, this is gonna look sick, replay. Probably replay it like 60 times, the night before, and I fell asleep with my phone in my hand, watching that, just the rehearsals. So it was like, there was no paralysis over analysis. I was just like, focused on how sick that was gonna look. And it was fun for me. It was my way of authentically expressing myself with my roots and dancing, and just being creative. So when it was time to show out, you know, I showed out, you know, and it was my show this time. Like, you know, when Robert and Kevin Gaston's fight fell out the morning of the fight before, two, three, four. That was a Melbourne, yeah, we're a labor arena at Melbourne as well. I wanna do an entrance, and Dana was like, uh, not allowed, nah, can't have it, this is not right or right. So when it was two, four, three, I was like, look, this is my show. I'm doing this entrance. I don't even fuck what you think. And yeah, I made sure I didn't look how it turned out. It was iconic. - And you realize though, 'cause when I, I'm embossed, I must have been 3 a.m. here when I was watching that. I'm thinking this guy's putting more pressure on himself. Like he didn't need to put on himself. He has to win now. - Exactly. I love that. I like to gamble, but I think gamble at the highest level. I think gamble with like, the biggest stakes, you know, 'cause I feel like whenever I get that win over that, and it just, it just feels that much better. And I feel like, I don't know, it's just, it's a feeling, I don't know how to describe it, but it's just, 'cause you know, people are watching that just like, fuck, like, 'cause she doesn't wanna like me. Like, fucking hope this kind of gets dropped. I hope this guy gets knocked the fuck out. You know, I think he's the man walking out dancing and all that shit. So, you know, people naturally just wanna see you fail. And like this guy thinks he's that good on the, like that was 57,127 people in attendance. And I put that pressure on myself, like, watch this. And yeah, for me, there's something special about just overcoming that. That just gives me that, that rush. Speaking of entrances then, you were born in Nigeria.

Personal Experiences And Challenges

Your early years (04:28)

As I said, I'm half Nigerian, and then you moved to New Zealand. What was the reason why your parents decided to take you out of Nigeria and move you to another country? I think it was initially better recognized teschery education, 'cause you know, I mean, when I'm in New Zealand, I sometimes I'll be, you know, talking to a cab driver, and you find out that he was a medical doctor back in Sri Lanka or back in India, and then moved over to, you know, NZ or the Western world for quote unquote, better life. And their, their qualifications aren't recognized in the Western world, you know, but they're a surgeon or something crazy back home. So then they're forced to take these, I guess, million jobs or start up a new business. And yeah, they wanted us to have better recognized teschery education. Yeah, worked out alright for me. - But you were really smart anyway in Nigeria, when you got to New Zealand, you were smart, and the classroom and you were saying that they thought you were smart. - Yeah, oh yeah, but I was like, the, I was informed more than I remember, like it was, we're doing two times table, and I was just like, yeah. I knew the song in my head. - Yeah, yeah. - Finished, and I remember when I felt, everyone was like, oh, like, and I'm the runt of our people, trust me. Like, I'm not the smartest, you know, kid in the class back in Nigeria. So when that happened, I was just like, I was on top of these kids, like, this is easy, this is light work. I did four more than actually three times, so I did it first time when I was 10 years old, in Nigeria, Bell's boarding school. And then when I moved to Ghana for about a year and a bit, I had to do, no, about a year and a bit, I had to do primary six and then four more again. And then when I moved to New Zealand, I had to do four more again, then I skipped form two, and then went straight to form three, 'cause I just kept the, they were like, oh, he's too young, you know, he can't, in each country or so, he's too young to be and form one. So, yeah. But I wasn't the most academically gifted kid. I'm smart, but I'm smart in different ways, yeah. - When I was reading about your story, the other part that really resonated with me was, we came from Botswana and we moved to a place called Plymouth in Devon and Cornwall, which is like a farmland. It's like if you go for an hour, yeah. The four hours into the end of the country that way, where it's called Cows and Fields. And all white people, that's where we moved. And we're the only black family, my mum's Nigerian. And that process of trying to figure out why I was different to my classmates and why we were poor and all these kinds. - I was like, I never realized I was black 'til I left Nigeria. And it's not that I didn't know my skin tone, it was just like, I never knew like it was a problem. I never knew like people would, you know, I guess discriminate against me because of my skin tone. And it was weird for me. It was really weird for me to kind of like, almost like another type of culture shock. Like, the one I used was an example was this kid who kept on writing by my house in the weekend from school. And we were just like, her insults, you know, at me, at my house, in my house in the weekend. He took time out of his fucking day on a Saturday and then go back to your country, black and knees, and then drive by again, and say, are you black there? So you're gonna be like that. - He's shaking. - I literally was just like, did I do something to this kid? I know his name even, I remember his name, not his last name, but stuff. I was just like, what did I do to this kid to like, did I do something and then that Monday, was it like Monday or Tuesday following week? He pulls up to me and says, what a black boy. And I was having a bad day already. And this is after lunchtime, when it was about to end, and he pushed me. And I remember just wailing on them, just threw him to his cable, "Be the zest" through his B block, "Be the zest." And I was just crying the whole time, just beating them up. And I was in the fighter back then, but I was just fed up and pissed off, like, who the fuck is this kid? Like, first of all, you were harassing me all weekend. And then at school, you were harassing me? Yeah, he never did that again after that. Yeah. - What was your relationship like with your race at that point? 'Cause I gotta be honest, I started like relaxing my hair and I started, I did, and I was trying to be white. - I was trying to be fitting. Like, there was a point even like, I started trying to talk like the Kiwi kids. I tried to like use the same slang. I still do, but like, just 'cause I'm part of the culture, but like, I really tried to like fit and fit in. And I don't want you to be able to relax. I was relaxing my hair 'cause I thought it was cool. You know, it wasn't 'cause I was trying to fit in, but there was bits and pieces where I was just like, "Man, 'cause everyone just wants to belong." You know, especially as kids, you know, you just wanna be part of a tribal fit in, but then, yeah, when it took me a while to realize that I wasn't meant to fit in. Like, guys like us, we're not meant to fit in. We're meant to stand out. So eventually, I had to kind of stand, it took me a while to kind of learn how to stand tantos deep in my own light. But yeah, I was there at one point, you know, trying to fit in and trying to make sure almost, like even during lunch time, if I wanted to go to the talk shop, right? I would take the long way. I would, like a rat or mouse, I would screw me along the edges of the school. So I didn't get fucked with, and it would take longer. Twice as long, three times as long, but at least I didn't have to just walk through and get fucked with, you know, on the way to the talk shop or something. 'Cause I spent most of my time in the library during lunch times, I think, in form three. Yeah, just 'cause it's safe in the library. - What do you mean by getting fucked with? What would happen if you walked directly to the talk shop? - I know, so am I just throwing an apple at you, or something stupid, like, so am I running up behind you in town, down trowel you, you know, or trip you, or just chase you, try and beat you up for fun. And the kids are stupid, you know, you're also in a boy school as well, so you know, it's all these boys, but, I know, like, I'll just pent up emotions and unresolved trauma, and don't know what to do within you found hormones, and it's just like, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, like little chimps, and yeah, see, that's how I know, yeah, definitely. So it's like, yeah, we didn't know, for me it was just, yeah, as an adult now, I look at it, I'm just like, man, we didn't know what the fuck we were doing. Like, who let us, like, who let us outside? You know, but, it's all part of the learning experience I feel, it's all part of growing pains. Like, I know, when I have kids, I know exactly what I'm gonna tell them, how to handle themselves, if you know what I mean. - What are you gonna tell them? - Well, one of the ones is hit hard, hit first, you know what I mean? Like, this whole thing, I remember just like, you know, oh, don't hit them first, you know, like, if they touch you, then you're like, nah, fuck all that. 'Cause the first punch matters, the first punch matters. So if someone like, you know, is talking to me and pushing me around, pushing me around, smack 'em. I, they'll learn first, like, first hand, like, okay, don't fuck with that kid, even if you might win, at least he's not gonna be like, make it not easy for them to fuck with you. You know what I mean? So that's one thing I'm definitely gonna teach my kids is just make sure you're unfuckable with, yeah. - When I look back at my early years, and, you know, having studied a bit of child psychology, I realized how like, formative and important those early years are, and we're basically as adults, like, living out the stories we told ourselves about ourselves as kids, and seeking validation from all the things that are-- - A lot of childhood traumas I'm wanting on. - Exactly. - What was left behind as you became an adult? - A lot. - It's supposed to be about-- - One thing, I can't wanna go deep. Definitely being a kid that moved from Nigeria to New Zealand, right? And trying to fit in. I ended up being a people pleaser as a kid. I didn't realize that because I'm trying to fit in, I'm trying to please everyone. And then you don't realize how that follows you into adult life. So there was times, and it's still once in a while, you'd be surprised, it rears its ugly head, but I'm able to identify that once to nine, I'm just like, "Well, I know what that is, boom, and I kill it straight away." So I've learned that over years though, but then that people pleaser still apart of me, 'cause it was a way of surviving. I just make sure these guys, "Oh, cool, don't fuck with me." And I just kinda piece them. Yeah, that's one thing definitely that was the result of just, yes, trying to fit in. It's just people pleasing. And it's not the best way to live. It's not the best way to live 'cause you can't make everyone happy. And someone's gonna find something wrong with what you're doing or how you're living or whatever. So yeah, it took me a long time, but eventually I got to the point where I just don't, I really don't care what anyone else thinks. Apart from those who I give a fuck about, I care what they think. When anyone else who is not really, I guess I don't have any emotional attachment to fuck 'em. Like Bernie Mac said. Fuck 'em. Yeah. And when you say people pleasing, to be specific in the examples of you being a people pleaser, do you mean on social media, or like to the public, right before social media? Or do you mean-- And before social media, this is when I was a kid like in high school, people pleasing us in the sense of like, someone asks you to do something you might not wanna do it, but you'll do it just 'cause you just, sure you wanna fit in. 'Cause that guy, he, I guess he's one of the first 15 jocks who played rugby or whatever, and he just like, "Oh, I'll do what he says just 'cause you wanna get that." It's almost like clap or social currency. You know what I mean? So yeah, things like that. But yeah, it took me a long time. Like I said, to learn and realize those things. This is a lot of self-reflection, years of self-reflection and realizing, 'cause a lot of people don't even realize they're running on old childhood trauma, like a lot of everyone is. So you have to find a way to sit down and just access that with yourself. Do therapy is one of the best ways, and then you just work here. That's like reverse engineering. Like, what does that come from? You know, why am I like that? Why am I, why do I have that attitude? Why do I think like that? And yeah, you and your therapist kind of work that back and realize, you know, where that comes from. As I was reading through your story, and you know, you sit here as this unbelievable UFC champion, and then as I read through your story, there's all these little subtle hints of what almost sounds a bit like imposter syndrome.

Impostor syndrome (14:23)

And sometimes like this guy not believing that he's deserving of what he's achieved. And it really sits in contradiction to the guy that did that backflip coming out against from the way that it comes from. Where did that come from? Tell me about that. I think some of just same thing, trauma, childhood trauma, some of that stuff. I've dealt with it very well now, to the point where it's like there was times, I use an example when I was thinking, I was speaking of Forbes not long ago, and we dive into this a little bit. So when I be robbed right, I wanted my gifts to myself. I bought myself from a clan of 720S. Nice. And the first day I got it, I remember I drove to the gym, this is at peak, you know, time at the gym, maybe 6, 5, 30 PM or whatever. And I didn't park it at the front of the gym. I parked it at the back of the gym, and I showed some of my teammates, like my close, close, actual teammates, not the people that go to the gym. 'Cause sometimes a lot of people like to be like, "I'm in this roast team." And it's like, no, you just go to the same gym as me. Doesn't mean we're teammates. So I parked it at the back of the gym, and then after my teammates finished working, I was like, "Yo, come check this out." And I showed them, and I was like, "Fuck, look at this shit." 'Cause they know how the work I put in. I work hard, but then I'm like, "Man, I'm with the best student in the gym." So imagine if I can do this, imagine what they can do. So I kind of just share my joy. And then, you know, unfortunately, especially in New Zealand, this is Tall Poppy Syndrome, and is that Green Knight Monster. And I've been that kid, so it's easy for me to recognize it on other people when you've had it with yourself. So someone said something, you know, "I must be nice." And they started to hear rumblings of, I know, that happens. For me, it was the same thing. I was just like, "Man, I didn't expect that from someone that I cared about to have that kind of rhetoric." Like, "Uh." And then I heard like, "Maybe other people did more deserving people." - What? - I know. Yeah. And they kind of just pissed me up. - There's no more than having people. - Yeah. At the gym, because they work harder than me, right, right, right, right. And like I said, if I wanted to flex, I would have parked it in the front of the gym. Like, you know, look at my new whip. And just to like flex, just show off or whatever. But now I parked it in the back of the gym where only like seven people saw it. And the seven people that I really give a fuck about. And I wanted them to see like, look at this shit, like, fuck, if I can do this, imagine what you can do. So when I heard that, I didn't drive it for a week. I just felt shit driving it. I remember driving it at home, and I just felt like shit. And I just parked it in the garage, and I just left it there for a week. I didn't drive it because I felt like I let those words from that person, I gave a fuck about seeping to me. And then it sat with me, and then I just felt like, oh yeah, I mean, I don't deserve it, you know? You know, all the people work harder than me at the gym. This and that, right, right, right. But then it took, like I said, about a week over that week, 'cause I mean, it was a fucking sick car. I literally didn't drive it for a week and got to the point that I realized during that week that towards the end like, well, that's subjective. If they don't think I deserve it, that's their own opinion, that's subjective. That's what they believe. I don't have to believe that. And like you said, that imposter syndrome thinks I have to creep in. I was like, look, maybe they don't think I deserve it, but one thing no one can ever take away from me is that I earned it. Every fucking thing I have, I earned it, and I earned this fucking whip, and I have a right to drive this thing and flex. And once I got over that hurdle in my head, boom, I was in that bitch and I was whipping it around. But yeah, like that imposter syndrome thing crept in when I heard that from, and I was through the grapevine as well, but man, I was from someone I really liked. I was like, man, why would he say that? I just, and people learned this is over. That's a long time ago, you know, it's a good fight. But it's something, it said more about them than it does about me, you know what I mean? It says more about them than it does about me. So I shouldn't have let that affect me at all. But I did because I gave a fuck with that person thought because they're a close person to me. And unfortunately, sometimes the ones close to you that will hurt you with that. Yeah.

Your great depression (18:38)

There's something really remarkably sort of liberating and amazing to hear a UFC champion talking about imposter syndrome because it really does fit, feel like. It feels like there's, and this is, I know this is an obvious misconception. It really doesn't feel like someone with your swag and confidence could feel those things. You talk there about therapy as well. And when you spoke to Joe Rogan about therapy and about after your UFC debut, that swell you went through. I wrote about this in my book because I got really compelled by this really bizarre thing that happened in my life on my company with Join the Stock Market. And I'm sat in my really Manchester in it. It's worth 300 million and I'm figuring out how much money that means I've got. And it feeling like the worst day of my life. And then when I heard you talking a little bit about how you felt after your UFC fight, hiding in the toilet when people are pestering you to ask you questions. And that annoying dude sitting down next to you when you've tried that. Yeah. After my UFC debut, the after party, it was all, after the fight, it's always like I said, I get pulled in so many different directions. And it's just like, it was my first time in the UFC. So I was my first time experiencing all that. And it's like coffee. It's a stimulant. Coffee's a stimulant. So after your UFC debut and you show out like the way I did, you know, I stole the show. I came in and I stole the show and it was just like, cameras this. I will interview this, but I'll come talk to this person. Talk this person. And then I didn't get time to myself till I got back home. When I was back home and I was in my own house and finally away from all the noise and it's just like, and then I remember, it's like coffee. You drink coffee or you got the coffee high and then you crash. So it was literally that like just lack of the stimulant and I just crashed and I was like, why am I sad? I just find myself being really sad. And I remember it's probably on my old phone me documenting my recovery. 'Cause I was just like video diaries. That is, I was like, why am I sad? Like I made six figures in my UFC debut. That's including the bonus as well. Yeah. And I'm just like, there's no need to be sad. I fucking kill that shit. And that's when I start to kind of like take therapy seriously 'cause like, this is not, I'm not gonna be one of these bad statistics, you know, that you hear about in entertainment. So yeah, I, I just take a, take a hard look at myself but then therapy help with that. 'Cause then you find the right person who can kind of help you, I guess figure you out. And all they do is just actually the right questions and then show you, I guess yourself. Yeah. - Can you, 'cause I heard you say that you picked up tools from therapy that helps you sort of navigate all of that attention in this new position you're in. What were the tools? - Also, it wasn't until I fought Bronson that I was able to go back home and just kind of like, I keep saying it's like I came back from prison. What do you call it? - We back in society, regular life normally, you know? It was until I, that was my fourth UFC fight. But then each fight after that same thing, I'd go back home and I'd just like, have this crash and I had to realize, okay, this is something that I can't have happen constantly 'cause it's not healthy. A tool, I can say that helped me. One of the ones that helped with Charlotte May's book at the time, "Shook Once," anxiety playing tricks on me, I read that during the, I finished reading that actually during the Bronson fight. That fight week, I finished reading that and that, I got a lot of gems from that book. But from therapy, one, then from therapy, from my own experiences, talking to myself, the self talk 'cause you haven't, we all have a negative self talk. But looking in the mirror and talking to yourself, you know, speaking to yourself like you would to someone you're giving advice to 'cause when you look in the mirror, you humanize yourself. And I'll start to like, you know, just have a conversation about myself, even like gee myself up and fall in the big myself up, things like that. So that's a tool that I feel like is really underrated. It looks crazy, you know, standing in front of the mirror and talking to yourself, but it's a really powerful tool if you know how to use it right. - Fighters don't talk much about their mental health. I think Whitaker did the other day and you kind of thanked him and applauded him for doing that, for being horrible. - Yeah, I mean, I put him in a dark place after that first fight and I understand because guess what? He was trying to do the same thing to me. My guy respected as I'm Tyson Fury because he spoke about that, you know, to ends, like, and how dark he went. He went to like the depths of hell in his own head and then he's risen above it and he says like, he battles with every day. I feel like, look, there's your spectrum of physical health. This is super healthy, super ill. If you do not look after yourself and your physical health, you're gonna get physically ill. Same way, if you don't look after your mental health, you're gonna get mentally ill. So I feel like if you're, it's like someone's saying like, you know, I don't go to therapy, fuck all that shit. No, no, no, no, no. It's like, well, do you take vitamins? Do you go to the hospital? It's not something to be, you know, shot, like, whatever from it. So I feel like you should look after your mental health the same way you look after your physical health. So once I learn how powerful that was, I'm always on top of it. I slip up obviously because I'm human and I get ill, but yeah, I always make sure I'm on point though. - Was that your hardest moment with your mental health after that you have to debut in your recollection? - Not my hardest. I think 2013 was my great depression. There was a time in 2013 that life was just like as spiraling bad. As early 2013, I remember at the time, my girl left me, the business I was working with was failing, work with shit. I had my job broken in 2012 and I wasn't able to fight. So I really had no like, not purpose, but like something that I was looking forward to, you know, there was a time during that 2013, there was a time where I was walking Millie home one time and I remember this is when I was really broke. And I remember just looking in this dairy or like this corner store and I was just like, "I wish I could just go in there and be like, "look, just give me the money you have. "I don't wanna hurt you, or just give me." And I remember just like, it was a fleeting thought and I was like, man, and that made me empathize with people. I was like, this is why some of them do it. They just have no other choice. Obviously I'm not gonna do it because I'm not an idiot. But I realized like, this is why some people do what they do because they have no choice. They just wanna eat. I was lucky enough that no matter how bad it could, I always had my parents supporting me. If I had my dad there, can you please just loan me 100 books? Can you just give me 200 books? That would always support me. And I never went to them often, but whenever I did too, they were always there for me. So I never had to go to that point where I was. And I would have never anyway, 'cause I'm not stupid. - You refer to that moment as your great depression? - Yeah, 2013. - What got you out of that, great depression? - To be honest, once I had my fight, so then I fought in June, I believe that year, finally after six or seven months, 'cause I had to take time off after the surgery, fighting, and then I realized my purpose again, like, I know what I wanna do. So I didn't fight for a long time, 'cause it was, yeah, it was just really, it was dark times, something you're passionate about, something you, what I moved to Auckland to do, and it got taken away from me. So then I wasn't able to do what I wanted to do. And then once I got it back, it just kinda re-instated to myself, like, I know who the fuck I am, so, yeah. There's something really sort of telling about that, that your lowest moment was when you'd lost so much, you'd lost connection in terms of your girlfriend, and you'd lost orientation and purpose and something to aim for in your life. And you see that in young men, I mean, the single biggest killer of men in this country under 45 years themselves. - Source life, yeah. - It's mad. And it's like, how do we get young men to have a sense of purpose and meaning in their lives in the modern world? How do we get that back into them? And it's funnily enough, like, I go to the gym around the corner, I could go to some post-chime, I go to the gym, like, down there, in the end, it's like 15 pounds a month. And it's all black and Asian young men. And when I'm in the gym, I'm looking around, and I'm sat there thinking, like, 'cause now I'm on the drag and send, they come up to me sometimes, but before that, I was thinking, like, the probably the best thing I could do to help with suicide rates in this country, other than having these kind of conversations, it's like, put loads of fucking gyms in this country. - Yeah, oh yeah. - You know what I mean? - On a percent, I feel like, we were talking about earlier about young men, kids, was it when they become adolescents and they don't know what to do with all this new hormones, they're just filling up their bodies and stuff like that. They didn't outlet. Even for me, I've said, after this game's done, after I'm done with this fighting shit, when I have a family, at least, a couple of times a year, I need to do something that's gonna feel like I'm about to die. I feel like I just need to do something that's just gonna just, I'm a bit of a adrenaline junkie, so I need to do something that's gonna just, like, tame the beast. If not, I just feel like it's gonna seep in other ways I wouldn't want it to in my life, you know? So I need to find a way to tame the beast and I feel like this does. Martial arts, what is it, is a quote, make savage of the body and civilize the mind, something like that, you know what I mean? Especially as young men, honestly, like, sometimes people wanna kind of like, discredit athleticism or, you know, working out, or you're just a jock or this, I hate jocks, I was never a jock in school. So I have a really, really special place in my heart for them. But yeah, for me, I just feel like just being able to own your masculinity in a way that's not talking, I'm not talking toxic masculinity, or just being able to just like work out in a place where you can be a man and just like throw weights around or, I love rolling with my boys. Like there's some, I love lifting, even during lockdown, I was lifting a lot, but there's something to be said when I have a guy like my teammate Brad Riddell or Carlos or blood diamond, you know, on my back trying to choke me out. And then, you know, three, two, one, go. And I have to fight the choke. Something primal about that, that just activates this part of my brain that I'm just like, fuck, it just, yeah, it gets me going. Quick one, as the seasons have begun to change, so has my diet. And right now, I'm just gonna be completely honest with you, I'm starting to think a lot about slimming down a little bit, because over the last couple of, probably the last four or five months, my diet has been pretty bad, and it started to show a little bit. Really over the last two months, I go to the gym about 80% of the time. So I track it with 10 of my friends in a WhatsApp group and this tracker online that we all use together, we call it fitness blockchain. And I'm currently at 81%. So 81% of the days I've done a workout in the last 150 days, right? So I'm going to the gym about six times a week. That's been a little bit impacted by the Derivacy of Live Tour, but I'm trying to stick to it. And so one of the things I'm doing now to reduce my calorie intake and trying to get back to being nutritionally complete and all I eat is I'm having the heel protein shake. Thank you, heel, for making a product that I actually like. The salted caramel is my favorite. I've got the banana one here, which is one my girlfriend likes, but for me, salted caramel is the one. - Do you worry about that when all is said and done?

Do you worry about what happens after all this is over? (29:59)

Like you're gonna have these crazy moments of having like 60,000 people in this arena and coming out doing these like stuff. - I'm ready for it. - You know what I mean? - I'm ready for it. - The high of that, the adrenaline high of that, when that's all, when you're done with this game, you said, when you lose the love of the game or whatever it is, do you ponder what that moment would be like for you? - A little bit, but I'm ready for it in a sense that I'm not attached to this. I've already, I know I'm more than fighting. Fighting, there's more to life than fighting. So I'm not like one of these guys who was attached. Like, you know, I don't even know what my belt is right now, to be honest. I really don't know. I'm not attached to it. I know I'm the fucking champ. I know who I am. I know who I am and I'm a champ without the belt. It's just a fancy tiara. I've said that from the jump, but I'm not attached to it to the sense that it's my identity, that this is all I am. So when it's all said and done, and I'm not the UFC middlewood champion anymore, I'm retired. I'm not gonna be like, who am I? I know who I am without the belt. So that's the blessing in that. But a lot of people don't, a lot of people are like, "You see them walk around with the belt constantly?" And they just, they attach to that. Like, that's who they are. So when it's gone and it's said and done, that's why a lot of people who are supposed to be retired still end up talking to the media and finding their way to get their name in the spotlight, because they're addicted to that. It's addicting, trust me, I've been there. I've felt it. It's addicting, attention. That's the social currency now. Attention, even at the highest level, fame, clout. This is all, these are tangible things. I've seen it. I've seen one of those two people, man. Funny story. I saw this, when I was in New York, I felt Brunson right. That week I saw this YouTube video of a guy in Times Square in New York. He was there regular, easy, and then just walking around, didn't get bothered. And then he went there at nighttime, hired an entourage, hired camera people, addressed the part, that clip. All that clip were like stands to like, who's this guy? Fake famous dude. Exactly. Fake famous guy. And then the camera guy asked him, so how do you know David and someone be like, "Oh, I heard his last album. "I was pretty good. "I heard a single on the radio, or I saw them in the spider. "People just lie through their teeth, "and just say whatever they think he is." And it's like, you obviously don't know the guy. You can just say, "Oh, I don't know who he is." And I've had that. So when that day, I'm sorry, that week in New York, I was doing a shoot for my brand Engage in Times Square. I had Jeff and like through other cameras on me, so there's like four cameras on me. He sees people starting to gather around like, "Oh, he's this guy." And then some people recognize me, they start taking pictures, and then before I knew it, then I start finding people who didn't even know me. Yeah. And they just like, "I just want to take a picture." Have you ever had some come up, try this one way, just the other one. Yup, constantly. Yesterday. And they go, "Hi, who are you?" And I go, "Oh, Dragonstone." They go, "Brav." Okay. And they want to take a picture. The worst one I remember was, I've used this story a few times, but I was at this bar in Auckland, and there was a table of like four dudes and two chicks, and I could tell one of the chick was like, "The center of attention." So when I came in, the guys were just like, "No fucking waste, don't then walk the fuck out." The girl just showed me love and all that. And I could see, I could feel her energy, and I could see her from the corner of my eye just like, and then she came up, she's like, "Excuse me, but who are you?" I was just like, "Don't worry, baby, it's so good." I was talking to one of the guys taking photos, and then she came back again, trying to talk to me. I was just like, and then she came, forced me this time, it was like, "What's everyone giving a fuck? "Who are you? "I don't know who you are." And I was like, "Baby, I don't know who you are." And I just fired her off. I was like, "I don't care you don't know who I am." You know, but like, the fact that she wanted to let me know that she didn't know who I was, like it was gonna hurt my feelings. And I was just like, "Baby, I don't know who you are." And I remember her face just like, She's not used to being treated like, exactly, trying to remember. I'm like, "I don't care. "I forget who I am all the time." You know, but the fact that she thought like, it would actually hurt my feelings for her, and I don't know who I'm like, "What the fuck are you?" You know?

How have you dealt with fame (34:11)

- How have you made sense with all this noise when you walk through places? - Fuck the noise, as I said. - But the fame, like, what's your relationship with it? I was thinking about this the other night, and I was talking to one of my friends, and I was thinking, "For me, it's kind of just this thing "that's happening outside of me." And I'm observing it like a spectator. - I like that, I like that. - You know what I mean? - There's no book on this shit, so I've always said like, "Fuck the fame, "but I love the perks." I love the perks of fame, but I just, I don't like being famous, you know what I mean? Have you seen Free Britney? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Brother, there was a bit in that. That was one of my, like, I was getting anxiety watching the first half of that. There was a bit she was driving, and then she ran through these red lights, and the guys were like, "Look at her, she's crazy." I'm like, "Yeah, 'cause you're fucking chasing her. "You're chasing her, she's trying to get the fuck away from you, "and you're calling her crazy." Man, that whole thing, just the way she was trying to buy gas, and everyone was just on her. I even cringe thinking about it, 'cause I'm just like, "I would hate, "I would have hate to be in that position," especially if you'd like to be with your family, like your family doing that to you, that's crazy. But yeah, fame, it's not, no one's supposed to be famous. It's not a thing, especially with all these gadgets now. We're not supposed to have these. We're not supposed to have people who don't do shit with their lives have such a loud voice and droves being able to tell us, 'cause back in the day, I saw this quote on Instagram. Yes, maybe last week or this week about, like, back in the day before social media, you only heard from doers. You heard from people who are actually doing shit. You rarely heard from complainers, but now complainers are the ones you hear from the most, because they finally have a voice, and they can be anonymous and hide behind there the anonymity. So yeah, they're the ones who have the big voice now, and the doers are just doing. So people start to eventually believe the complainers. And so we're paradox shift now in this day and day. So like I said, you have to be able to sift through the noise, and I have my ways of doing that. I guess you'd also only hear, if you go back even further from people in your tribe. Exactly. We're only supposed to have like certain amount of people we associate with as the human animal, but then like social media and the connectivity we have, now it's just made us connected to the whole world, made the world a small place that you can just, even confirmation bias. That's another thing we have to be careful about. Like, and I make sure, 'cause I follow certain people on Instagram that I don't necessarily agree with. I follow them just to like, hear the other side. I wanna know, just to like, 'cause I don't wanna be surrounded by yes men or people like, oh, I only follow, you know, this 'cause this tells me what I need to know when I wanna hear. - Exactly. - Yeah, yeah. - So I follow certain people just 'cause I'm like, they make me feel a certain way, but I'm like, they're not wrong though. And it's just different ideas. It's not wrong or right, so different ideologies. But I'm just like, you know what? I'll tap into that just so I can at least be aware of the other side, what they're thinking. - Yeah.

Social media mob mentality (37:18)

- And that kind of brings me to what I heard you say about Rogan when you defended him. Because Rogan's one of those people for me as well. Like, I can listen to his shows and his podcast and stuff. And I don't have to agree with everything. - Of course. - But there's a diverse-- - What, yes, yes. - I don't have to agree with his guests. That's what I mean. But there's a diversity of opinion. So I can, and I feel like people these days, as we've all observed, they don't want to hear anything outside of their own. It's either left or right. And the other side is wrong. And there's nothing in the middle. And if you say one thing that represents the other side, like-- - They just stop you in a box right away. - Yep. But that's the thing. I'm like, this whole fucking situation we have with COVID now and what we're doing in society is a strange time, man. Because people adjust the human animals weird. It's a weird fucking species. Because individually we can be smart. But when we in droves, just dummies, just a bunch of dummies in droves sometimes. I'm like, how can a smart person have this idea about this? When you know what's really happening, you really, it's like if you really step away from it, like you said, just remove yourself from the situation and look at it from a third person as a observer, just watch it and just be like, I know what that is. But then somehow the smartest people I've, I know sometimes just have the weirdest world looking at the world. And I tried not to hold against them 'cause I'm like, I know you, you're a smart person, but maybe the way you were brought up or your own childhood trauma again can kind of skew the way you look at the world. So I never hold against them. I just kind of like, it's not personal. It's not about me. It's about them. So just observe. But yeah, it's weird, man. Very weird, very strange. - And they're just, I guess, trying to fit in too. They're trying to be part of a guy. - Oh yeah, exactly, try it. Yeah. So it's like more mentality. - Given with, I remember when Andrew Schultz said recently, he's like on one of his podcasts, he said he regrets getting the vaccine. And yeah, he said he wishes he never did. What's like, people, I find this really strange that people like, people don't wanna get duped. People don't wanna get duped. People feel like they got had. And if people, if someone felt like, you know, they got duped, they kind of wanna get people into their tribe so they can, we've got your on our side. I don't care what side you're on. I literally don't care whether you wanna do this or you do that. All I care about is how you treat people, how you treat the people around you, the people you interact with. But not this day and age, like I find people asking me the strangest questions like, and then they'll base their, how they treat you based on that response. Like, are you vaccinated? That was one of the weirdest ones. I was like, why do you care? - Yeah. - What does that do for you? - Well, we need to decide who you are. - Exactly. - From one decision. - We wanna know what walks to put you in. It's like, why? So I like to fuck with people and just like, maybe I am, maybe I'm not. We'll find out. But then they just like, no, but we need to know what you're like, do you know who side you on? - Exactly. I'm like, why do you care? - Yeah. - And this is the thing with division as well, I've said, like they divide and conquer. That's the easiest way to break a, you know, a nation or a group of people which just divide them and separate them, make them think that one is on the other side and make them fight amongst each other. It's not that they've done it for years, for centuries. The oligarchs or the Illuminati or whatever you wanna call it, they divide and conquer. This is how they get it done. So why do you think like they're not doing that right now? In so many different ways, so many different ways. - I consider myself to be someone that sits in the middle, so like sometimes like, I don't fuck with politics at all. I don't say, you know, Nigerian parents, my dad used to have CNN or BBC on the telly all the fucking time constantly just on repeat, but I just don't watch the news. I literally don't listen to it. You know, in New Zealand, we used to have like an update with this whole COVID shit on Mondays, I believe, around 5 p.m. I never once was like on a Monday like, ooh, yeah, gotta guess. Oh fuck, okay, but everyone else is like, oh, has they been there announcement yet? I'm just like, mm. - Okay. - I get the new second hand. I'm like, what do they say? Oh cool, I will let it, 'cause I just, it wasn't apply to me. That's how I feel. I just, I really, and I assist my ego talking. I'm not talking the rules or the law. I'm just talking like, no matter what they say, I can do, or I can't do. Like example, we were locked down for three months last year in August. During that time, those things weren't allowed to do, like train. I trained. Allegedly. Yeah. But I found ways, like I just felt like the rules that applied to me, 'cause I mean, in the beginning of the pandemic, trust me, I was scared. I was, I didn't know what this fucking shit was. It felt like the purge. But then eventually, after all the bullshit, after a year and two years, I kinda like, okay, like everyone else, we just knew what was going on. There's some kind of other, I guess, agenda behind it that we have no fucking idea about. I'm not gonna act like I fucking know. But I just know, like, this doesn't make sense to me. It does not make sense to me that, I don't wanna get too deep into all that shit. But like, literally this makes sense to me. The common sense was just not commenting. There was no common enough, so I was a sidekick. This is, there's something going on here that I'm not fucking with. But I'm gonna live my life the best way. I know how. In the lines of what I can, allegedly. I hear.

Being cancelled (42:45)

When you said at the start about the cartwheel, you said, you know, you just wanted to be authentically yourself, and this kinda links to what we're saying now. When I joined BBC One, I dragged in. I started thinking about how I defend myself from the inevitability of being canceled. Either for the people that I speak to here. Yeah, and one of the ways that I kinda concluded with my team was, well, if I am always myself, and I don't ever try and convince the press that I'm a good guy. - Bro, this is where, this is the trap that a guy like John just fell into, 'cause he was always like the pastor, son, and he was always like, you know, after a fight, I wanna thank Jesus, you know, I wanna be sponsored by Nike, and you know, our kids, you know, I wanna be someone kids look up to, I wanna be a good role model, right, right, right, right. Fuck them kids, fuck all that shit, you know what I mean? I'm like, bro, people try to say, oh, you know what my kid looks up to you, I'm like, raise your own damn kids. Raise your own damn kids, you know. Like, one thing, after my UFC debut, some guy, so at my after party, I had this shirt, right, said, good cunt from Engage, classic, sold it, still big seller, and some guy, oh, straight up, it was the beautiful shirt. Like, it also was like a, a player on a famous designer brand, GC, like, yeah, so we sold those, we still sell them. But this guy came up to me, and he was interviewing me at my on after party, and I could see he was trying to set me up. So then he's like, oh, so what do you, yeah, so what do you think a t-shirt like that sends, what kind of messages is it, I'm like, what do you mean? And he thought he fucked with her, he fucked with the wrong one this time. So he's like, what do you think that kind of shirt sends as a message to say, for example, a young kid who looks up to you, and I was just like, oh really, oh, so what does that kid look up to me for? He's like, oh, for being in your position, as a what, a fighter, right? Yes, so that kid just saw what I did about a few hours ago when I beat the fuck out of that guy, and he saw where I was taking me, he was like, no, no, no, no, I was like, stay there, and I could see him trying to find a way out of that, no, no, so that kid just watched me beat this fucking guy to a pulp in his own blood, as he spat blood at me, and I beat him in his own blood, till the referee dragged me off him, yeah? Oh really, so what do you think is doing more damage to the kid is me doing that, and the kid looking up to me for that, or me wearing a shirt that just says good cunt, is this whole fucking culture of like, stupid language games, you can say that word, and that's a bad word, and this and that, so, and then I can't remember how I've flamed him, but I've flamed him, there was a bit of an audience as well, I've flamed him badly, he never released it, and if you obviously because he didn't like to stand up, but he thought he had me, but he didn't realize, he fucked with the wrong one, and I just told him I was like, I think me doing my job, it does more damage to the kid for watching than me wearing a shirt that says good cunt, you know what I mean, and I hate that, the fact that we're playing these, 'cause even when I do, I don't do New Zealand media anymore, 'cause they're too fucking stupid for me, and two, like I did this morning show one time, and I was talking, I said, but something asks, that's a swear jar, I swear jar, I'm like, what the fuck, this is high school? I'm like, I'm an adult, I know you, I've seen you at fucking Ponce of your social club, drunk off your face, I know what you're doing in the bathroom, you know what I mean, so I'm just like, don't try and act like you're holier than now now, and like, oh, you put that in the swear jar, ha ha ha ha, it's like this, what game are we playing? You're playing this stupid game that's like, oh, we can say these words, but we can't say these words, like you're an adult, when the cameras go off, I know how to fucking speak, I know how you talk, you know, and it's like, while we pretending we don't speak, the way we do because of what, 'cause we're on TV, it just, it boggles me sometimes, and I start to like, what game are we playing? It's like, it's so stupid as adults, we're adults, like we talk, this is language, we curse, we swear, but then when the TV comes on, oh, you wanna be proper, and you know, you must do your be, you know, prestigious, and speak, I'm like, nah, fuck all that shit, man, like, let's speak the way we normally speak and be authentically ourselves, so that's like, Charlemagne say something, say speak your truth so long, no one can use your truth against you. - Amen. - Amen, bro. Like, trust me, I'm able to get away with a lot of things I get away with because I never said I'm a saint. I know myself, I am a fucking demon sometimes, trust. There's no good people, there's no bad people, people are just capable of great good and great evil, you know what I mean? But I just try to do more good than bad, but I have done some bad things in my time, 'cause I'm human being, you know what I mean? So when people try and, I get to put you in a box, like, oh, he's a good girl, he's a diss, there's no good people, there's no bad people, we're just people, and we're capable of great good and great evil, that's it. - Amen. - Yeah. - In my head when you were saying that and you looked me in the eyes of man, I've been the demon sometimes, I just had this image of people in the past. - Well, you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. - That side of that. - No, that's the thing, so when I started this podcast, I know I was gonna be on BBC One at 9pm on this very prestigious show, I was like, by the way, I used to shoplift pizzas to feed myself when I was broke, I did this, I did this, I did this. - And you can almost, - Put it out there. - Exactly, right, and you can almost, in my head, when you said that, I was imagining the press here just packing up their suitcases and fucking off and being like, we can't use him. - Bro, trust me. - We can't use this guy because he's not trying to tell us that he's not, he's not built this big hill of moral perfection, so we gotta go find, you know, we gotta go find something else. - They can't fuck with me, 'cause you know why, if there's a reason I've stayed off TMZ, I've never been on TMZ, knock on wood, never wound for the wrong reasons, but, I mean, one day, if something happens, I just happen to be on TMZ for the wrong reason, I'd be like, whoopsie, my bad, I made a mistake, but guess what, I never told y'all it was perfect. - Exactly. - I'm normal, I'm human being, and so I'm just like, that's my power, it's being vulnerable with my faults. You know, I'm not gonna say I've done this, I've done that, but I just, no, I'm not perfect, I'm a human being, I make mistakes, and it's okay to make mistakes. The difference between me and some people is that I actually learn from my mistakes, and I don't make the same mistakes over and over and over again in the public eye, like some people. - John Jones. - That's one, that's a classic example, obviously, the same fucking mistake. - We had a guest come on this podcast in December, and she said that she was making the point about everyone having the same 24 hours in the day, this was kind of the quote she used, and it became the number one story in this country for three days, it trended number one on Twitter, it was on hundreds of newspaper articles written about it, because I think maybe her brand is one that is trying to be a role model. So she was the number one trending topic in our country for three days. - Well, it was a story. - That she said everyone has the same 24 hours in the day. - Oh. - Right, exactly. So I came out and said, by the way, loads of my guests say that all the time, why are you attacking her? And then my next press event, right, I wore a shirt that said 24 hours on it. - Everyone clapped. - I didn't get canceled. And I said, I'm I canceled. I wore a shirt and all the paps are there. - Oh, wow, I was. - I said 24 hours in the shirt. And this is what I'm, this is my, that was my attempt again to say, by the way, I'm not perfect. And if you wanna cancel me, please do it now, so I can get up with my life. - Yeah. And I'm still waiting, they've tried, they've tried me. They keep trying me. I'm just like, look, it's hard to cancel someone when they actually don't give a fuck. - And they've been themselves. - I'm like, I fight people for money. That's what I do for a job. I beat people up for a shitload of money. If you really wanna take my political views or my moral views into consideration and say this and that and right, right, right. That's on you. I'm like, this is, I'm not, I never said I'm a saint. I'm not a fucking politician. I don't, everyone, I don't feel like I have anything to hide. Like I said, I put everything, not everything, but like I put things out there that I probably shouldn't sometimes. But that's my way of being vulnerable to the point where I'm just like, this is me. Take it or leave it. I feel like me doing that attracts the people who can relate, who can resonate. And I feel like they gravitate towards me. - You don't talk about your relationships, your romantic relationships? - Never, I keep that way. - Is it because you're protecting the person or particular? - Look, this world, one thing I've seen is they'll build you up, right? They'll build you up and then tear you down. Like a free Britney, Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber, all these people I've seen that happens so many times. So, and also this world just takes, they just take, take. When I have kids, you never know, the world would never know their face. I'm even contemplating if I still give them my last name, 'cause I don't wanna put that pressure on them. 'Cause even my siblings, sometimes they hate it as well with like, you know, this is, this is Davis, this is Israel's brother, or else is, is Deborah, this is Israel's sister, or stop in the sister and they're like, my name's Deborah, you know? Like, I don't wanna put that on them. Same thing with my relationships, that's certain things I protect, 'cause I value them so I keep them safe because the world will just try and take, take, take. And that's one thing everyone wants to like, know what's he doing, who's he with, barely have gay as well, 'cause of my nails and my pro neck, 'cause this and all that stuff. So I'm just like, ah, let him talk, it's fun.

How do you balance personal life and work? (51:54)

- But have you found it difficult because of the success and the meteoric rise, and the money and the increased attention to navigate being good in that department, and also your obsession with becoming the man you are today, which did feel like an obsession when I was reading about your story, sleeping in the gym. - Yeah. - Like, how does one do that and also balance out having-- - That's my life. - Yeah, it's regular, I'm a human being, and I have feelings, you know, so I'm an empath as well. - For you? - Yeah, I'm born on the cusp, so I'm like, I say, I'm a cancer leo, I'm hard and soft, like semi-chub, you know? - Introvert, extrovert. - Exactly, my guy, so a lot of people don't realize that about myself, like, when it's time to go in my eye, in my crab hole, I just find my way, I'm like, right, leave me alone, this is a, I love my friends because my close friends, I can, we can do this for hours, just yawn and talk shit and make fun of each other and just show each other love, but then we can spend the next three hours just sitting in the same room, being on my phone, or watching TV, or listening to a podcast and not saying a damn word, and just enjoy each other's space. I love that, I love that feeling. But yeah, I'm a person who feels a lot, so I like to protect that, I like to keep that really guarded, 'cause like I said, the world will take that away from you, man, and I feel like people ruin things, people, especially like this is not supposed to happen, the world I'm being under a microscope and everyone watching what I'm doing, so certain things I just have, I feel like I just have to really protect, 'cause I don't want the world to take that away from me, 'cause they just take, take. My cat died, maybe two years ago, the morning she died, right? I was, I think I was filling gas up in the afternoon, and some guy came up, while I'm filling gas and goes, "Brother, bro, can you talk to my cousin real quick? "He's a big fan." I'm just like, "Man, bro, my cat just died this morning, man." I'm already knowing the, and I remember the look on his face, it's like, "Oh, I ain't all good, all good, whatever." I was just like, "Ah, give me the phone." I was like, "Hello?" And this is as I'm filling gas actively, and I was like, "Hold up, bro, no phones." Like, what if I spontaneously code, but they don't care, they just wanna have their moment, they wanna take, they wanna take, they wanna take. So that's why, if I'm having dinner with my family, if I'm on a date, if I'm in the intimate moment, people start to like, "Bro, I don't wanna be that guy." But I'm like, "Well, you're being that guy, "you're being that guy." Say you don't wanna be that guy, or you're being that guy. - That's what people say, "I'm not a racist, "I got a man." - Oh, yeah, bro, I was like, "I hate to be that guy, "but can I?" I'm like, "Well, you're being that guy, "you hate to be that guy, boy, you're doing it right now." And it's like, I'll be having lunch with you, and within 10 minutes, we'll get stuck probably like six times with you. I'm probably, if we had lunch and learn that we probably not even have a chance to talk, but they don't care, they just wanna get their picture and put on their fucking social media with fucking 20 followers. So they can only go make their chair, boy. Like, whatever, I'm just like, "No, let me have my moment." And I've learned this. Okay, my experience with this, and I was bringing something whenever I see them on TV or here as raps, most deaf. I see most deaf and calm in Auckland Airport. I may have an accommodation by the bad carousel, and I wanna fight an Adelaide, and I'm coming back home, I have my trophy, and I was like, "Oh, I wanna get a picture." And I pull up to him, I'm like, "Hey, what's up, most deaf, big fan?" He's like, "Hey, brother, just no photos today, man." I was just like, "Oh, good, no worries, easy." Now, remember, I was a bit sad, but I understood. I understood, 'cause they weren't in the middle of a conversation actively talking. I sure had the etiquette to realize, like, just, they talking, leave them alone. Well, this is a thing. I feel like it's a learned behavior as well. It's the one thing that, everyone thinks they are the biggest fan. It's the same rhetoric. I know the lines they're gonna say each time, but like, it's a learned behavior. I don't know, I think it's made from TV or Disney or whatever. People feel like when you meet someone, you really, you're a fan of, you yell at them to let them know how much of a fan you are, and you show them by just shaking and, I honestly think it's a learned behavior, 'cause sometimes I'm like, there's no need for all this. I'll be at like a three, I'm chilling at a two or three at a park, and so, no fucking way. Oh my God! Ah! I'm just like, Okay, after the Whitaker fight, the first one, I remember after that whole, the fight, after the after party on the way back to New Zealand, I remember at the airport, I put out a story just saying, like, look, if you see me at the airport, or traveling, just approach me lightly, 'cause if you come at me with all this energy, I'll walk away. I put that on my story, just 'cause I was like, I'll walk away, 'cause my capacity to deal with high energy right now was just, how are you feeling? I was just drained. I was drained, so I was just like, I just wanna go home and chill. So I remember at the airport, I just, I was, before, after the hotel, I put it, before I went to the airport, I just put that out there with the story, just to be like, look, don't come at me with all this shit, 'cause there's too much for me to deal with right now. So if you come at me, just like, "Hey, what's up, bro? "A big fan, can I take a photo?" That's cool. And I remember that fight week, the week before the fight week, I realized, I had an epiphany, I realized, I don't have to match everyone's energy, 'cause that was a problem. I used to, like, if you were a fan, you'd meet me, now I'd feel, "Hey, even if I made it, "like I said, my cat just died, "then I'd have to raise my level up." "Hey, what's up, bro?" ♪ Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey ♪ ♪ Do the whole song and dance and all that shit ♪ But I'm like, "No, I don't have to match everyone's energy." 'Cause guess what? Hard pill to swallow, I'm not excited to meet you as much as you are to meet me. It's just a hard pill to swallow, and it's just my everyday life. I'm not excited to meet you as you are to meet me, and that's okay, because this is my life. This is how I deal with things. So once I kind of go over that, I don't have to match everyone's energy. So if someone comes to me out of 10, I don't have to raise my level up. I'm just chilling, I'm listening to a podcast. I can just pause and be like, "Hey, what's up, man? "How you doing?" And if they feel like that's a shit interaction, cool, that's their prerogative, I don't care. But if you made me last night, I'm in the fucking, I'm in the streets in London last night. I'm showing love to everyone, I'm dancing, I'm talking to people, I'm, I'm a, you know, I'm a star area boy, but that's a time and place. I'm taking pictures and all that kind of stuff. There's a time and place. If you catch me at the right time and place, fuck y'all show you love. I hate when people get entitled and think they just, "I wanna take, I wanna take." So that's why I keep, yeah. - Quick one, as you might know, crafted one of the sponsors of this podcast, and they make really meaningful pieces of jewelry, this lion piece they've made, I wear all the time, along with the little time piece, the sand timer that I wear often. And the lion piece, you might have seen Conor McGregor has a similar piece, which was custom made for him. For me, it represents courage. And if you walk through my house, the house that I'm in right now, if you walk six feet in that direction, you'll see a huge lion portrait. If you go upstairs, you'll see a lion portrait. If you look behind me on the shelf, near the top there, you'll see a lion as well. The reason my house and my life is surrounded by lions because they represent courage, calmness, and that tenacity that I've applied to my business success, to my professional life, and to everything in between. For me, the lion has always been an animal that can be almost a bit of a contradiction. They are so loving and so caring of their own, and can be powerful and courageous when necessary, in order to achieve what they wanna achieve. So if you like me, are a big fan of courage, bravery, ambition, while also being calm and composed, check out this lion piece and let me know if you get it. And you keep your boys and the people you came up with close, right?

Keeping the right people around you (59:47)

Tell me about the importance, how much you realize the importance of that as you've risen to this place, to keep the day ones around you and stuff like that. I mean, you'll know this. It's lonely at the top, you know? But it's not if you bring the right people with you, the people that came up with you, the people that love you for you, the people that know you from before you had money, before you were famous, you know? So I like to have them around to keep me grounded, to keep me grounded and just make sure I'm solid, 'cause they knew me before any of this shit happens. And, you know, it's hard 'cause sometimes you, I have fun to the trap of having people who just agree with me. Yes, man, you know? And even my boy Chance, I'm glad like I have him around, 'cause sometimes I'm crazy. I don't always have the best ideas, and I'll have an idea, he'll be like, nah. But okay, cool. I just needed someone to tell me, you know? But I'll put it out there, but if he's like, nah, we're not doing that, I'm like, okay, cool. 'Cause then it just helps me. But if I have people around me, which is like, okay, sure, then eventually, it just makes me more powerful, and I just have to think like, oh yeah, you know, I'm the shit, I can say whatever I want. And that's no healthy, man. I don't think that's healthy for the ego, you know? Yeah. Well, I just like having people like that around me because I feel like, yeah, they keep me grounded and just remind me where I come from, you know? And there's so many stories, man. Each of my friends in my group chat, I've known each of them over 10 years, but well over 10 years, man. And we all have stories we can kind of share from back in the day that just remind me where I come from, yeah. - And the other thing that happens is when you reach, the heights you've reached in your profession is, we talked about it, then you have this other, this other attention, which is from women that might want you for the wrong reason. - Oh yeah. - My mum always wants me to-- - My baby, Bummy. - My mum's trying to tell me, you know-- - I went and I go to settle down. I went and I go to find a nice, nice, jaguar who just said to down. - She wants me to be with a Nigerian woman. - Yeah. - She just doesn't like her. - I'm sorry, I don't settle. I don't settle. So for me, that's something I guess you just have to take about case by case basis, yeah, case by case basis 'cause you do find people who just, some people play the long game, put it that way. I've had people play the long game with me, even recently, it's just like, yeah, you know, they love their, they're not gonna stop, but they play a long game 'cause they see the value and it's not just what you, it's just what you bring to the table and they get entitled. You know, and I feel like that's not the way you wanna be when you have someone, you know, that you're romantically in love with or involved with, is like, you don't wanna be competing with them or have them feel entitled to what you have. I'm like, yo, you just got here. I've been made it. The fuck you talking about? What do you bring to the table? I bought the fucking table. What values are you looking for? Do you look for in that kind of person? Kind. I just like someone who's caring, who gives a fuck, who really cares, like, and who wants nothing from me? That's the thing, it's hard to find my song who needs nothing, I don't even celebrate my birthday and I'm hard to buy gifts for 'cause I'm not really a material, I love material things, obviously, but-- Nice watch. Yeah, thank you, I'm sure you know. I heard you. We work, yeah. No, but yeah, like, I'm not a material person, but I do like material things, but it's hard to buy gifts for me because I found this as well with my rich friends when I was coming up, it was hard to buy gifts for them when someone, they able to buy whatever they want. So, but in that, I just look for someone who's caring, someone who really gives a fuck, that's the main thing. You give a fuck about me, yeah. And you're gonna have a family one day? Of course, that's definitely one of my main goals after this. I don't wanna be that dad that's like, I wake up, see my kids for like 30 minutes before I go to work, and then when I finish work, I see them like for hour, hour and a half, maybe, while I'm tired, no. I'm gonna make sure I'm there. From the ages of zero to five or six, I'm gonna be like, what do you wanna do today? Like literally, what do you wanna-- And I feel honestly, fuck school. I know I would still even have this whole fucking, this outdated concept of school to just build workers. 'Cause we know what the fuck school was made for. While we pretending, we know school was created to create workers. Do you still know, I don't, what the fuck is X? - No fucking idea. - Bro, I'm still waiting. - I'm still waiting. - Still, I'm like, whenever I, in my life as an adult, known what the fuck X is, no fucking idea. A lot of useless information gone passed on to me in school. And I sucked at school 'cause I was shit at memorizing. I didn't really learn anything, dropouts, as we do. - Cheers up ya, my man. - School doesn't teach you much, honestly. Teachers use a basics. I don't understand maths, yes, English, comprehension, all that kind of stuff, but when you come to like, social studies in algebra and calculus, I'm like, are you gonna use those in the real world? So, fuck school, my plan is right. When I have kids, I'm gonna have a tutor that's gonna teach them from the age at home, from the time, like say maybe nine a.m. to midday or 1 p.m. And they'll have an hour of homework, and the rest of the day, we'll just go on adventures doing shit. But then, they're gonna do gymnastics compulsory 'cause I wanna make sure they know their body, the foundation of athleticism, gymnastics, and jiu-jitsu. Show that with their involved with other kids and not socially awkward. You don't wanna win race and fucking bumpkins, we don't have any social skills. But, yeah, I wanna make sure that they have those kind of skills by interacting with other kids through gymnastics or through jiu-jitsu or other activities, and they'll do that every day or every day of the days of the week it is. But, school, going there, clocking then, sitting down, washing the teacher, write some shit on the board and right, right, right. No one's teaching. There's literally some of these people just there to catch a paycheck, and I've seen it. I was in school. You just see them there, oh, they'll write the shit on the board, whatever. - Copy this. - Copy, exactly, copy this. I don't even know what, 'cause we're doing these, when I was in high school, NCA credits. Now, I remember just like, towards the end of the year, what's all this credits, credits, credits, now to repeat the whole year. Why didn't know what I was like, credit, well, NCA credits. What's all this credit, shit, credit, credit, credit, I did not care. I didn't understand, I just didn't fathom it, but then eventually when I got a graph, I was like, oh, this sucks. It's a shit system. - And then they'll give you the D, and then you'll feel like you're a D as a human. You're a dentist, I'm a guy with a D. - Exactly, it's a problem. - The worst one is I remember what was in, in boarding school in Nigeria, I was bottom three in the class, and of course they have to announce it, the bottom three, you have to stand in front of the school paying out. And just like, these are the bottom three. - Just stand in. - With your head down. - Yep, that's us. Yeah, we're at the weather once. I was the lowest, yes, thank you. Okay, now go and take a seat, okay, yes, thank you. Oh, the worst, man. And it's just humiliating, but I don't know if it's meant to motivate you or what, but I didn't do shit. And like I said, a lot of people started like, I see that now even like young people, they start to tie their self worth. I have a friend in med school who literally like, when it gets crunch time, they just like, I need to get these grades, I need to get the grades up, and they just identify them. So if I don't get this, I'm useless, this is it, I failed. I'm like, you're 23, calm the fuck down. It's not that deep, it is obviously, it's your career, but I'm like, there's more to life. There's way more to life than this, than just this idea of who you think you are. 'Cause when I was fucking 18, I thought I was gonna be married in half, kids at 23. Boy, was I wrong. I'm like, I don't fuck, who let me buy a house now? I'm like, why, I don't know how, who let me do that? Shouldn't, should never give me these things money. First of all, I don't think they gave it to you. - Yeah, I took all that. - I'm a bank for it. Yeah, like, yeah, I don't know what I was thinking back then. I thought like, I thought I knew what I wanted. As soon as I was 18, I was like, I'm gonna have kids when I'm 23, 24, fucking hell. Geez, ento fiaco. - When you look forward at your, I mean, you've reached the top of your game.

What drives you now? (01:08:05)

How do you keep yourself, you know, what is the thing that's driving you now? What is the thing you're aiming for now? What's that North Star that's getting you out of bed? - Is it legacy out of it? - People took that legacy, you know what I mean? - Legacy, yeah, big thing. - That's what it is, see. It's for me, it's definitely the legacy I wanna live. Why does that matter? - I think I wanna be more, I don't know if it's my ego, I'm selfish or what it is, but I just know, look, I did Sonya, the perfect idea is royalty, where we're from, you know, I did from the Eurobought tribe. You know that's, they had some royal blood tied to it. I did Sonya, but now worldwide, the name I did Sonya, it's synonymous with greatness, forever synonymous with greatness. And I'm gonna make sure that is, I'm gonna make sure if you have that name I did Sonya, you're proud to be like, yup. I'm tied to that bloodline, I understand, because I don't know, I don't know what it is, isn't my ego, why is it that fucking King Tut wanted to be buried in his tomb with all his gold? - Even though he's not gonna be that, so. - Exactly, enjoy it, I don't know, I don't know, but I know when it's all said and done, when I'm dead, my name will be remembered in history. What's that Troy line? And that's why I don't remember your name, or whatever it was, but like, I wanna make sure that my name will remember and revere throughout history as one of the best in this game, but also just as a person, I just, just the GC, just a good cunt, just a happy dude who was enjoying life and just, I don't know, making shit happen. What's more about the feeling now, I want people to remember my name and just remember the feeling I gave them, you know what I mean? Like those who are alive to what, or not alive, around to watch Jordan's reign in the NBA. I mean, I'm sure when they hear Jordan, they can just remember, I remember that time I was at that game, or I remember that time I watched that game live, and they remember the feeling. I want those, like, when they remember my name, to be like, I was there, two, four, three, I remember how I was in the arena when he won that feeling. I want, people forget what you say or what you do, but they never forget how you make them feel. So it's the feeling I wanna make sure they remember, yeah. - When people reach the top of their game, they start becoming philanthropists. We see this when people get billions, 'cause they can't seem to get the buzz or the feeling anymore from business or successful money or land beginnings, you're up. So they start helping other people, right? - I'm getting there. - You're getting to the point where you're starting to feel that the greatest service you can do is for others, 'cause when you're talking about your legacy there, it's actually sounds like the feeling, that's philanthropy, it's like, I wanna leave this feeling with other people so that they feel inspired or whatever. - Yeah, I'm doing the same thing as well. I'm setting my people up to people in my circle. I'm not handing anything out to them, but just with opportunities, you know? And also experiences, I'm giving them experiences to inspire them. But yeah, there's things that I do behind the scenes that I don't necessarily, I don't know, like I'm not only these guys, I don't do it for the likes, I do it for love. And I feel like there's a bar from Jay-Z, the best form of giving is anonymous to anonymous. So there's ways I just, I drop gems, like Shaq, I love the way Shaq does it, but he does it quite overly, he's like, "You wanna bike?" That's your mom's gonna have a bike. You got these shoes, how many do you want? - Yeah, like, it does just drop gems everywhere, it makes people happy, because it feels good to make people feel good. Even though that is selfish in a sense, 'cause I'm getting something, I'm getting good feels out of it. But still, I'm making someone feel good, and rather that, but I'm not doing it to be like, - Yeah. - "Hey, man, I know you're hungry, and I just bought you this meal, 'cause I really wanna show love to you, man." You know? - Yeah, exactly. And I've loaded it to the ground, and then-- - Okay, I'm not gonna do that. These things I've done, even Tim will tell you after this, I mean, even for this fight, there was someone that I, I think last year, he went through some stuff that I heard about on the media, and I was just like, "Fuck, I went through that shit as well." And then this fight, I brought him out, and I showed him a good time. Yeah, he and his mom, and I put them up, got them tickets, and just made sure they were looked after. I met him backstage, and just gave him a few words of encouragement, and I don't need to bring it up, because-- - Yeah, yeah, I can't hear you. It's fine. - I hear you, shit. But Tim will tell you about it. - When you walked in, the song playing, do you remember the song playing? - Hold up, or victory, that was a nipsy. Which one? It was from Victory Lab, though. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - Double up. - Double up, yeah. Every time that song gets me every time when it gets to the end of the course, I live the beyond where you let me. Ah, it gets me, man. Every single time, I don't know why about something about that track, it just gets me in my field. I didn't even think about it, and I get goosebumps. - Yeah. - Double up's the track, man. - When I saw you pre-fight, playing that song, and I had to tell him, crying. And then I saw you in the stands another time crying. I guess that was the evidence that you are a bit of an empath. You do feel a feeling. - I feel a bit. - The last one was, when I watched my boy Blood Diamond jump on the scale to weigh in, and I get really emotional. Fight week's like my wedding week. I feel, this is why I dread getting married, 'cause I don't, the guest list, I'm just like, I don't even fucking know who I wanna invite, 'cause people are gonna be like, "Oh, you didn't invite me to be ready." - I just wanna celebrate my birthday. 'Cause it's like a few times a year, there's a whole week that everything's about me. So I don't need another special day that it's about me. So that's why I'm also dreading, like I said, my wedding day on my birthday. - Fused fun. - Exactly. - But I really don't celebrate my birthday, to be honest. Like, every day's my birthday. I can do whatever fuck I want, you know? I don't even sell, I don't buy gifts for people on their birthday. I just buy them if I see something else. I think sure like that, or I think he'll value that, not just buy it, just 'cause I'm like, or give them the experiences, 'cause that's why I do value that. But, - I know you're not missing Valentine's Day there. - Oh, yeah. - Valentine's Day. I have a special tradition on Valentine's Day, yeah, I used to do, but I don't really play around with it anymore. I just used to like, just mad memes on my page and just, just, it's funny. I was just the way, the first time I did it was in 2014, yes, I believe to have 14 Valentine's Day, I was fighting. And throughout the day, I was waiting for the fight. I was just bored. It was before stories on Instagram. So I just put up like 80 posts that day, just like, yeah, I know. People were mad at me, people were really entertained, but I didn't care. I was just in that fight mode. So I was just like, fuck, put in my post about that. Just memes and just making fun of Valentine's Day, but fuck, good times, good times before I was, I guess, super famous. - One of our guests, you said you were going up to Manchester on the weekend, one of our guests, Patrice Alvarez, Manchester United football legend, do you know the guy?

Are you happy? (01:14:51)

- No, I see, I don't football, the bug didn't catch me. They didn't catch me as a kid. Sports didn't really catch me as a kid 'cause I was unathletic, funny enough. Yeah, I know, I was never really athletic kid. - Yeah. - Mad. - And then Patrice, when Patrice came here, he's from his family from Africa, originally moved to France, played for the French football team, he became this legend, maybe the greatest man, just United wing back in our history. He wrote a question in the diary. We always get our guests the right questions to the diary. - Yes, I heard about this. There's all I knew about this podcast, I was like, okay, apparently there's a question. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - There's a question at the end, but in fact, I'm gonna read you the question that's been left for you by, I don't actually read it until I look at it, but Patrice asked a question, which I thought was really profound, because I remember being asked this question one day, and it really puzzled me, it's such a simple question. So we'd ask you the question. - Okay. - Are you happy? - Right now, yes. Yes, I'm very happy. - Why'd you say right now? - 'Cause it's not lasting, it's fleeting. That's one thing I've also learned as well is, well, you can't enjoy the sunshine without a little rain, and everything is temporary, everything, everything's forever changing. So even right now, I'm happy. I'm enjoying life. I love where I'm at. I love who I'm around. I love who I'm with. I know it's not lasting, 'cause guess what's something's gonna happen that's gonna shake that up? 'Cause back in the day, whenever this is happening in the size, a few good days, things are so nice. - Yeah. - Where's the thing that's gonna fuck me up? But now I'm just like, this is nice, and I'll just sit in it, and I'll just enjoy it. I enjoy the happiness. I enjoy what I'm doing, I enjoy where I'm at. And then when the bad thing comes, I'm like, ah, there it is. It's okay, this is gonna pass as well. This two shall pass. So I wanna say, yeah, I'm happy. Right now, I'm happy. I'm very happy. - Are you good at defending the happiness? Because the amount of, are you even described it when you came off after your debut? The amount of people that are gonna wanna talk to you and do it if you're in Israel, Israel, Israel, are you good at saying? - No. - No, better. I'm better at it now. I never used to be. This is what I was talking about, the people pleaser thing back in the day. And this is why this year, one of my things is I don't get fucked up around people. I don't like, I don't know. 'Cause I realize when I get drunk, I'm too nice, I'm a friendly drunk. I'm like a fucking golden retriever. When I'm drunk, or black Labrador, I'm just like, hey, and not everyone's your friend. Not everyone's the best for you. But they'll just take advantage in trying like, you know, I just let my boundaries get crossed too many times, you know? And I let people get too close, maybe like two, then the next day, I'm just like, what the fuck did I let that person, you know? Ah, fuck, I wish I had said no to that. You know, then I start to eat at me for the next few days. So yeah, I'm getting, it's practice. It's constantly evolving, but I know how to say no, no. I just say, and I know I have to explain myself, I literally just say no, 'cause when you're explaining yourself, you're losing. I learned that from show sudden, remember when I used to listen to his podcast, he said something really profound, when you're explaining yourself, you're losing. So I don't explain myself, I just say no. And if that's, if someone like, can I get a photo camera, I'm like, I'm busy. Oh please, I'm like, no. 'Cause it's like, first of all, you see, I'm having, I'm on a date right now, and I said no, or I'm walking with someone right now, having the intimate moment, and you're disturbing my peace. So I say no, and if you try and like push, push, okay, no. And something like, oh, fuck, you know, don't say something stupid or fucking rubble smash you anyway, or whoever your next opponent is, I was like, huh? Okay, did I just let them, you know, this is why they take a photo with you, boy. If they, sometimes at a restaurant, like, if I say no to someone, 'cause I'm having lunch, or I'm on a date, or whatever, and then they come up to me and it's like, I'm busy right now, man. If they leave me alone, on my way out, if I see that person, and they were nice and respectful, I'd be like, yo, you have your phone on you? Then we'll take a photo. 'Cause I'm like, thanks for being respectful. 'Cause sometimes, I can understand people's judgment goes out the way when they see a celebrity, apparently. And I felt this way. Like I said, do you just don't realize you're etiquette? So when that happens, I don't hold it against them. I'm like, it's learned behavior, like I said. So then, I'll, yeah, I'll take my time out of my day and just say, what's up afterwards? But if they're like, you know, oh, please, please? I'm like, bro, you know I respect my boundaries. You didn't respect my, no, I need my, no to be respected. I said, no, why? Because I fucking said so, that's it. I didn't explain myself to you. Who the fuck are you? I don't know you from a bar of soap. And again, you're more excited to meet me than I am to meet you. - Since in the core of your being, do you realize that you're a star? - Yeah, I always knew so. I knew I wasn't gonna be regular. I just knew like I was gonna be great at something. I didn't know what it was, but I knew I was gonna be great at something. I just knew, everyone else working my last job, I just, I'm grateful for it 'cause it showed me what I didn't want in life. I just knew this isn't for me. And what is that? Is that self belief that gets you there? Or is that, so is it, is it you believing that you're gonna be great, that got you there? Or is it because you were innately destined to be great? I'm trying to figure out if it's something that won't-- - What came for us is chicken or the egg. - Yeah. There's levels, there's people like us, the weird, we're crazy in the sense that we believe to be, it's almost delusional sometimes. - Yes. - Like, what's the one, I've heard this quote on the GRE before, it was like, "Greatness, "immanence, a next door neighbors." And they just bore each other sugar once in a while. You know what I mean? So there's a point, like, I've used the story of me when I drive this beat up Honda and I'd shift the gear stick and I'd just do this. I literally was madness, I was me prepared for having a sports car, paddle shifts. So I shifted, you know, three, boom, gear four, boom. And when I dropped down, you know, same thing, just like I was getting ready. I was, this is, I brought, I can manifest like a motherfucker. Do you believe in it, in the metaphysical light? - Yep, 100%. - Everything comes from the imagination. Everything comes from, like, before this microphone was a microphone, someone somehow thought about it. You know, how can I speak into something that would amplify my voice and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then this came out of it and it's evolved over the years where everything comes from the imagination. So the power of the mind, people don't understand, we still don't understand. I still don't understand how powerful it is. I'm still learning, but I know one thing is I can make things happen. I can go into levels, I just can't tell the world, but like these levels that like, I've manifested things that I'm just like, I still shock myself like, how the fuck did I make that happen? And this is not even to do a fighting, this is to do my personal life. And I'm like, I made that happen. And this is through this like manifesting subconsciously as well, just years of something is just manifesting, manifesting, and boom, it's right there. I'm just like, shit, I really made that happen. It's scary, man. It's scary for me to even think about. - I reflect on that. And almost if you're like getting in your car in the morning, when you get in the car in the morning, you set the satinave, but then you've also got to drive. You've also got to go to training. - Yeah. - If you just set the satinave, where you're gonna be? - Sitting in the car. - Sitting in the first car. - You can sit there and make all these dreams and manifest, but you have to work. - What happens if you just drive? - What happens if you just drive? - If you drive, and with no satinave, you don't know where you're going. You're lost, you know what I mean? You have no directions. So for me, I felt like both of them together. I mean, when you really, when you have the vision and you're able to manifest, but then you also put the work in magic happens, man. Magic, that's where the magic is, but a lot of people never get there. Unfortunately, a lot of people are, we're blessed that we can dream. And we're blessed that we can dream. That's what they have realized. 'Cause a lot of people, even from the impoverished parts of London, will be lucky to have my old job, you know? From where I'm from, from Nigeria. A lot of people will be blessed to have my old job, and they'll be like, yo, this is, I have a great job. I can send money back on this and that. But yeah, I just had bigger dreams. I just knew what I wanted. So I feel like I'm spoiled that I can dream the way I do, and I can manifest the way I do. So I never take it for granted. And I realize the position I'm in. I'm privileged. I'm very privileged. I read a quote about immigrants specifically from Nigeria, and it said, "Our parents' role was to try "and figure out survival, "and we're here to start blessed "with the task of self-actualization." Which is like figuring out meaning. And they said, what a beautiful thing that is. - Yeah. They're just trying to survive, or find a way to next way to thrive. And to educate you, see like, what's meaning and purpose and happiness. - That's what I feel like, even today, the way the world is, like the problems that we have, especially world, this divisiveness, and whatnot. You guys are really having your real problems. Like when people in New Zealand start to complain about some stuff, I'm like, you guys are really worried about this. It's like, 'cause there's no real problem. The police aren't trying to kill the people constantly. You know, the government isn't, well, they are fucking the people over, but not the same way as, you know, in Nigeria's I mean, folk with by their government for so long. So it's like, you were really having your real problems. It's like, they find things to fight about now. Like now we're arguing about genders, you know, this kind of stuff. And it's like, 'cause there's no really, they're looking for problems, they're creating problems. Look, if there was some real shit going on, like there was like another war, World War III, apparently it's coming soon, stay tuned, stay tuned. Yeah, if that was happening, or aliens invaded, do you think anyone will give a fuck about any of that shit? Fuck no. - No way. - We're worried about some real shit happening, you know? So yeah, I feel like people just start to create problems 'cause we need struggle, we need struggle in our lives. That's the thing. - Most out there, he was the head of Google and he changed my life or something. He said about that, he said, 'Unhappiness is when your expectations of how life is supposed to be going go and met.' So it explains why billionaire, when his state comes and it's not perfectly cooked, he will be fucking furious because his expectation was here. And if it goes unmet, the delta is unhappiness. And if you go to where I was from in Botswana, getting a bowl of rice, expectation is, I'm not gonna eat today, bowl of rice, the delta is happiness. And it's the same thing you're talking about with people, you know, their problems are relative to their expectations of life, right? The last question, this one was written for you in the diary and by our previous guest.

Closing Remarks

The last guests question (01:25:23)

What question do you believe, based on the subject matter of the conversation we've had today, would have been interesting to ask you that people don't usually ask you? - Mm-hmm. I mean, you touched on a few things that normally they don't even talk about, like relationships and kids a little bit and stuff that I really hold guarded, but I have some funny ones in my head bone, I'm gonna talk about those. - Go for those ones. - Let me see. I think diving into my personal life a little bit, anything that has to do with like family relationships or, you know, like I said, yeah, family that I'm gonna have, I'm glad people don't talk, 'cause like I said, I like to just keep those things guarded, but yeah. And I think people kind of get my love life's not for sale, my family's not for sale, those kind of things, like I said, I won't sell for the consumption of people to watch, I'm not the Kardashians. You know, I ain't kind of your wits, I ain't putting all my business out there. Yeah, so for me, yeah, I keep those things guarded, so I think people kind of respect that I understand that, so they don't push too much or you get like a little bit here, every now and then, but not nothing too much. Yeah. Thank you for your time today, I just wanna see you all. I think it's just fun in this manner, like, yeah. Yeah, you're a killer in so many ways, but we didn't even get to talk about the marketing and the browning side of things. Oh, that's levels, there's ways out there. I mean, I did computer graphic design in college, and I felt like some of the stuff I learned there really helped me with my social media when it comes to making my own highlights when I was coming up, you know, hosting. All the anime stuff is all proud. But that's what we've been-- The director itself as well. Exactly authentic expression of self. If you put it out there, those who appreciate will gravitate. Fuck, I like that, that's a bar. T-shirt, that's a bar. Those who appreciate will gravitate. I'm gonna keep-- Let's start, add to your T-shirt collection. Tell them, well, but listen, thank you so much for your time, for your grace, for humiliating your openness as well. I appreciate it, likewise, my man. And I'm gonna look into you a little bit more. Okay. Nah, 'cause this the thing, whenever I like to meet new people and learn about them, so here in your story, I'm just like, man, that's still like 700 million at 27. I think all of it, but yeah. Yeah. - Oh, you're very proud of it. - Thank you, thank you. - Thank you. - Thank you. Thank you, appreciate that. Thank you. You