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“It’s An Emergency!” The Number Of Men Having No Sex Increased 180%! - Professor Scott Galloway | Transcription
Transcription for the video titled "“It’s An Emergency!” The Number Of Men Having No Sex Increased 180%! - Professor Scott Galloway".
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Someone dies in the UK every 19 minutes. 76% of these are male. What is going wrong? If you were to point to a single point of failure, it would be the-- - Got Galloway. - Entrepreneur, best-selling author. - Professor. - One of the most desired minds when it comes to business and life. He is about the obsession of how to be better as individuals and as a society. - Society tells you, especially I think, is a man that your worth is highly correlated to your economic success. But for the first time, a 30-year-old isn't doing as well as his or her parents. Men under the age of 40 are 24% less wealthy. The average age of a first-time home buyer is 47 now. It's an online dating. You have to swipe right 1,000 times. You get a single coffee. It's one in seven men doesn't have a single friend. We're gonna have men having relationships with the sheets. The most dangerous person in the world are lonely, young, broke male. And we're producing millions of them. And that can lead to very ugly places for the economy and society. What is the impact this is having on women? Women have become better educated and they're making more money. It means that the quote unquote pool of viable mates for women is going down every year. - And a lot of these men are finding role models online. - Yeah, this is a real issue, that this is a group that's struggling. On the far right, people like Trump, a criminal, Putin, murderer. On the far left, as far as I can tell, their vision of masculinity is to act more like a woman. I don't think that's right either. We need a new vision for modern masculinity. Do we need individual solutions? Or do we need societal solutions? - My solutions are pretty straightforward. And this is the one I'm working through and will definitely get me in the most trouble. - Scott, it's quite clear that there is a crisis in society, in different areas. I called a friend of mine who is called Simon Gunning before this conversation literally 10 minutes ago. He heads up one of the largest mental health charities in the UK and they specifically focus on suicide. They do a lot of work with men. And I said to him, can you tell me the latest stats on suicideality amongst men and purposeless and those kinds of things? And he said to me, someone dies by suicide in the UK every 90 minutes, 76% of these are male. But there's 25 attempts for every death. It's the single biggest cause of death for men under 45. And it's the single biggest cause of death for 15 to 49 year olds. And the category of 19 to 35 year olds is twice as likely to report being in a crisis personally than any other group. And lastly, 16 to 24 year olds are currently the fastest growing group in history to exhibit suicideality. What is going wrong in the way we've designed and the way that we're executing upon this vision of society? - I think even the way we frame the problem isn't correct.
Understanding Men'S Struggles And Societal Issues
Understanding Men's Struggles & Addressing societal issues (02:46)
And that is when we talk about, if you were to say that women are three times as likely as men to kill themselves, I think we would talk about the problem through the lens of it being a societal issue. And we would immediately move to what investments and change in behavior and education would address that problem. When we say young men are killing themselves at three times the rate as young women, we use terms like accountability or say things well if they just opened up more about their emotions or they need to get their act together. And that is we've decided when it comes to men, compassion is a zero sum game. And that if you feel bad for men, it immediately kind of outs you as someone who might be anti women or who's gone red pill. Because the void, the statistics are just staggering. Four times more likely to be addicted, 12 times more likely to be incarcerated. And because nobody was talking openly and honestly about those very real issues, that void created opportunity for what I think are some unproductive voices to fill that void and start speaking to these men. And naturally a lot of people now have a gag reflex when I hear people talking about the problems around them. So the first is we need to frame the problem as, this is a real issue that requires and deserves compassion. And our sympathy, it's not a zero sum game. Civil rights didn't hurt white people. Game marriage didn't in any way diminish heteronormative marriage. And so the first is to have a conversation that this is a group that's struggling. And to stop using terms like accountability and somehow blaming them for their own problems here. The 19 year old male should not pay for the sins of his father or grandfather. Now, and my yoda on this is Richard Reeves, but basically it comes down to kind of three things. The first is biological. Our prefrontal cortex is not mature as fast as a woman's. An 18 year old woman from an executive function standpoint is like a 20 year old male. So put another way, two seniors in high school applying to college, the woman is essentially competing against a 16 year old. And that is her prefrontal cortex had that executive function that he has, she had it at 16. So we're seeing double the number of women graduating from US colleges as men. Because it's 60, 40 ratio when they start and then the ratio only gets worse because more men drop out.
Exploring biases in the education system affecting boys. (05:18)
That still is an incredible on ramp to influence in economic security. And these men aren't getting on that on ramp. So there's biological reasons. There's also, I think the education system is just biased against men. Boys are five, excuse me, a boy is twice as likely on a risk adjusted basis or a behavior adjusted basis to be suspended for the exact same activity as a girl who's brought into the principal's office with the exact same infraction. You're sitting in front of me as a guy. You're twice as likely to be suspended for cheating on your chemistry test as a girl coming in. A black boy is five times as likely to be suspended as a girl. So we still have, we have a real bias. Now part of that is that 90% of primary school teachers are women. There are more female fighter pilots per capita than there are male kindergarten teachers. Men are not going into early stage education. And this is really important because you have an entire cohort of boys who grow up. The single, if you were to point to a single, a single point of failure where all of this starts, if you said, where did this young man come off the tracks? If you tried to identify one signal through all the noise, it would be the following. When the boy no longer has a male role model. And with incarceration, with male abandonment, and with a lack of teachers in primary school, you have an entire generation of young men who grow up having never had a male role model. And so a lack of male role models and education system that is biased against them. And then I think economic policies, whether it's the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs, the transfer of wealth from young to old people, and you think, well, the fact that someone over the age of 70 is 72% wealthier than they were 40 years ago. When someone under the age of 40 is 24% less wealthy, that affects men and women. I think it's especially hard on men because I think men are still primarily evaluated in terms of their economic vitality. So they're biologically behind women. Have an education system biased against them. And we have economic policies that have created a great deal of shame and rage. And the last point I would just say is for the first time in Europe and America's history, a 30 year old is not doing as well as his or her parents were at 30. And that creates just tremendous shame and rage. I mean, look at the housing market. The average age of a first time home buyer is 47 now. In 1980, the average age of a first time home buyer was 29. Young people have been sequestered from whatever you call, loosely speaking, the American dream or the UK dream. So the forces in the face of young men have just become greater and greater. And it's manifesting in a lot of different ways. Lower marriage rates, lower birth rates, and skyrocketing and suicide should also add that suicide is way up among teen girls because of social media. So different challenges are different ages. You're committing a lot of your time to both talking about this, but writing about this subject matter. Why? Why does it matter so much to you personally? Of all the things, because you're one of those individuals, and I spoke to your team and they kind of echoed this, that is very diverse in their ability to speak about subject matter. You could talk about investing or money or business or happiness. But for some reason, you've honed in, it seems, in part, to solve this challenge that young men specifically are facing. Why? Why you? Well, did you have two parents? Yes. OK, so I had a single mother. I was installing a shot because I'm that guy. I'm that guy that, as a kid, lost, didn't have a male role model. We were in what I affectionately call an upper, lower, middle-class household. My mother lived and died as secretary. I just could have easily come off the tracks and almost did a few times. And because government stepped in and because of things like Pell Grants, which are financial aid for kids in the lower, I think, quartile of income-earning houses. Because the University of California saw themselves as public servants, not as luxury brands. And they led in 76% of applicants. And I got rejected the first time. So I was one of the 24% that didn't get in. And then I got in again. But the big hand of government lifted me up. And also, I had a lot of strange men step in. A stockbroker, a baseball coach, a neighbor. I had all these wonderful men kind of step in. And between the warm embrace of government and America that you still have unremarkable people, men who stepped in, this is nothing but for me. I relate to these young men. And I see an opportunity. There aren't a lot of people. I just think the problem is so much greater than the emotion and the bandwidth and the resources being allocated to it. And it's just simply kind of a nod to the institutions and the men that helped me. So and also be blunt. It's a commercial opportunity. It's a chance to talk about something that's a whitespace. It's so obvious. If you link it to yourself as a thought leader, you want to be fearless and you want to move the needle on stuff. So this for me was just slowly but surely. You just look at the data. And it all leads to one place. And that is young men have fallen further faster than any cohort in America and Europe. And it needs to be addressed and talked about. This idea that it all comes back to do you have a male role model in your life? Links, interestingly, to a lot of the data that says, we're less likely to be married than ever before. We're less likely. Even I was reading some stats around when our first kiss happens. And a man's first kiss used to happen. I think it was around 18. It's now on average into their early 20s. Everything seems to be moving further and further and back. So from that I deduced that the chance that a young man would have a male role model in their life is probably deteriorating as well, because there's less marriages. There seems to be the prospects of dating seem to have dropped as well. So is that correlation between these two things in some respect? Yeah, there's-- what's strange is-- so you don't have kids, right? No. What's weird about raising kids now is that my mom was worried about me getting into too much trouble. I think what's fairly common now among parents is we're worried our kids aren't going to get into enough trouble. And that is we see the power of unsupervised play. We see the power of maybe sneaking into a movie and getting caught. We see just that it's important that at some point, kids are going to experiment with alcohol and drugs and better they ease into it as opposed to never do anything and then end up at college their freshman year and just can't handle the onslaught of it. So I think that there's something about the clonsieres and bulldozer parenting that where we use so many sanitary wipes on a kid's life that they don't develop their own immunities. 40% of Harvard's incoming freshman class are virgins. And I worry that-- I mean, this is going to sound strange. We have too little teen pregnancy. What do I mean by that? Unplanned teen pregnancy is a bad thing. But we have had such dramatic falls in that and drunk driving accidents, which is great. But what it signals quite frankly is that kids are so over programmed and have such a lack of socialization now, the number of high school teenagers that sees their friends every day has been cut in half, that we're slowly but surely sequestering from each other. And when we do that, we become less mimalia. We're mammals. We're literally-- if you have dogs, dogs are happiest when they're lying on top of you. We're singing due to what dog is leaving alone all day. And what we're doing to young people is we're kind of-- they are leaving others and themselves alone all day. We're separating from each other, we're becoming less social. And there's a group of men who are received well at school, don't find a source of pride, auto shop, metal shop, wood shops gone away. They go online to date. The majority of them get rejected. If you're average attractiveness and online dating, you have to swipe right 200 times to get a single coffee. If you set up five coffees, you'll get one will actually show up. Four of the five will ghost you and decide later on they don't actually want to meet up. So a young man of average attractiveness and online dating has to swipe right 1,000 times. So he gets validation for one coffee. He gets validation that he has no worth the other sex. He loses confidence. He starts engaging with people because he has less opportunities for random encounters where he has to develop those skills. And slowly but surely he sequesters from society. And at some point, he just is not really savable. He just never develops those skills, those skills around friendship or romantic relationships. In the United States, one in seven men doesn't have a single friend, one in four, can't name a best friend. In addition, marriage has become now a luxury item. If you're in the upper quartile of income-hurning households, there's a three in four chance you're going to get married. If you're in the lower quartile, the lowest quartile, there's only a three in four chance people never get married. So we have a group of the most dangerous person in the world. We're producing millions of them, and that is a lonely, young, broke male. And just bridging into AI, I think the biggest danger in AI, that people are worried about it becoming sentient. I don't buy any of that, or super weapons. I think that's a problem, but we've managed through those things, bioweapons, et cetera, before. I think the biggest problem that AI presents is that Big Tech presents a series of low-calorie, low-risk entry points into what feels like a reasonable facsimile of a relationship. I think I'm making friends online, but you're not really experiencing friendship. I think I'm in a relationship with somebody. Well, are you, are you really? I'm learning. No, you're not. You're gambling on Coinbase or Robinhood. And rather than endure the rejection and trying to develop the skills and make the effort, and it is an effort and involves rejection of going out into the physical world and revealing yourself as someone who would like to be friends with another man. Express romantic interests, take those risks. We're developing these digital analogs of life that create low-entry, low-risk relationships. And you think, well, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is, because it leads to depression. Because the reason why romantic comedies are two hours and not 20 minutes is that life is about the victory of taking risks enduring rejection and having a small business that works, about approaching someone and getting the interview, cold emailing someone and getting a coffee, and quite frankly pursuing someone and developing the skills and deciding to put on a clean shirt and maybe shower more often and maybe hit the gym every once in a while and maybe text when you're not sure how this person feels about you and figure out a way to interact with someone around the nuance and develop the skills around human sexuality such that you can develop a relationship. That is the victory. That's the payoff after the two hours.
The impact of AI-driven relationships. (16:53)
And fewer and fewer men are engaging in those risks and that victory. And I think that AI, in combination with sex bots, is going to create an industry where men start having relationships with algorithms and dolls. Supposed to the sex-bot industries can be bigger than the domestic box office receipts of all movie theaters in the US within five to six years. So we're going to have men having relationships with machines and dolls as opposed to other humans. And I think it creates a level of depression. I think her should be required watching for every teen male. And I think every teenager in high school should have a course as part of health on mating dynamics, where they teach especially young men that approaching a woman and expressing her manic interest while making her feel safe is a skill. And there's nothing wrong with that. And that the end game, a relationship, a partner, a romantic partner, is one of the keys to a happy life. And I think most studies bear that out. And we are sequestering for a variety of reasons men from the opportunities to have those relationships. And it also impacts women. But what we're seeing with women is two and three, under the age of 30, have a boyfriend. Only one in three men have a girlfriend because women are dating older. They want more economically and emotionally viable men. On the point of sex bots, it's almost impossible for me to see how that doesn't become a huge part of male dating. You know, speaking to Mustafa Solomon, who was one of the co-founders of-- And I'm a staffer. Yeah, yeah. One of the co-founders of DeepMind, which sold to Google. And in his new book, The Coming Wave, he talks about how all of these breakthroughs in technology, one of which is AI, one of which is robotics, is going to sort of intersect with the ability to have literally someone in your house who can not only clean your house and do the dishes and make your lunch, but also can love you in whatever artificial form that love comes. They can agree with everything you say. They can encourage you and they can have sex with you. And dare I say-- And I'm sure this might be clipped by somebody-- There is a certain cohort of men who would rather choose that than nothing. And when they're faced increasingly with that choice, it feels really inevitable to me to see how they would choose-- Some of them would choose a sex spot or something to that effect to fill that void. We can all relate to that. We all make that type of decision in different increments. A lot of times, it's easier to say, I'm just going to stay home and watch Netflix and take an edible and-- Pun. Order in and maybe watch porn instead of go out and engage in the expense, the emotional trauma, the effort, the skills I have to provide to try and establish something resembling a real world relationship. And rejection is enormously painful. And I think teaching young people rejection and my son didn't make the football team last week. And he's 13 years old. And it was a big deal. He was really upset. He thought this was the way he integrated into the UK. He loves football, tried out. Trout's are going really well. It really all came home through his back down. Tears didn't make the football team. And of course, his mother's totally freaked out. What do we do? And I'm like, this is an awful day for all of us. And it's a great day for him. Because this is what's going to happen. He's going to wake up tomorrow and he's going to realize he's fine. And he's going to develop a little bit of callus over that emotion. And I think you're an entrepreneur. And I've been an entrepreneur my whole life. I was single most of my adult life. I don't know. I don't know your relationship status. But if you're an entrepreneur and you're single, you're used to enduring rejection. And that is the key to success. That's the absolute key. Because the only thing you know that has happened in someone who's very successful professionally and personally is they have developed the skills to endure rejection. That's just that no one bats a thousand. You approach strange women in a strange place. Most of the time, it's going to be awkward. And sometimes it's going to be humiliating because you're going to get rejected. You want to start a business. You keep asking people for money. You keep asking employees to join you. You keep asking for customers and clients. And the only thing I can guarantee you is a shit ton of rejection. The ability to endure that rejection is absolutely the key to success. More so than talent. More so than I even, I wouldn't say hard work. I'd say grit is right up there. But your ability to endure rejection is that, you know, if you want to punch above your weight class economically or romantically, then get out of spoon and get ready to eat shit. That is a prerequisite to that kind of success.
Tips for building real-life connections amidst online distractions. (22:24)
And technology is enabling people to say, well, why subject yourself to that risk? You can engage in something that feels sort of similar without any risk at all. And over the long term, it's just such a bad trade. I mean, you were talking about porn. Porn is the largest unsupervised experiment on young men that we've ever had. And it's largely unsupervised because there isn't a lot of academic research on it because most academics don't want to be known as the porn professor. So there really is a lack of research around it. And when I coach young men, the first thing I do, kind of my go-to is I get their phone, I look at screen time. I'm like, okay, let's think of your, what do you have as a young person? You have a lack of financial capital, but you have a lot of human capital. And that's really important, time. So we're going to think about your time as money and we're going to decide how we're going to invest it. Let's look at your current portfolio of investments. And I asked them to unlock their phone and I say, I won't be judgmental. And between Twitter, TikTok, porn, Coinbase, it's so easy to find a minimum of 10 and sometimes up to 50 hours a week. And we're going to reallocate it. And we're going to reallocate it to other things. And one of the things we're going to reallocate it to is like, first we got to make some money or you're making any money. You got to make some. I don't care if it's flipping on a new bar app. I don't care if it's becoming an Instacart, a Dasher. The best way to make a lot of money is to start making a little bit because you start developing the skills and the hunger for more money, right? The second is we're going to take some time and we're going to try and invest in organizations or activities that put us in the company of random strangers. Not just potential romantic interest, but friends, mentors. That's super important. And one of the keys to developing what I'll call the mojo to take those risks around romantic relationships is to moderate your consumption of porn. One of the only reasons I graduated from UCLA was because one of my motivations for going to class was not only that I wanted to learn, not only that I needed to learn to graduate. I was a terrible student, but the prospect of potentially meeting a woman who I could take to one of my fraternity parties or that ultimately might be interested in me romantically and sexually. And if I'd had the access to porn that young men have now, I'm not sure that mojo would have been as great to get out of the houses often. So just to tell young men not to engage in porn, I think it's sort of ridiculous. But look at it analytically and think, "Okay, would you be more inclined to get out of the house, take those risks, engage in the victory, engage in what it is to be a man and be a mammal?" If you had reallocated some capital and ensured that that fire was still there. So I think modulating porn and more generally, spending less time online, every digital version of your life is a shittier vision of the analog version that could happen. But everyone said, "I'd rather have shitty kind of okay TV that's just mind-numbing as opposed to putting in the effort to do something great." But I think it's more than just porn. I think it's all of it. Why leave the house? Why endure that sort of rejection, effort expense? It's not just so expensive to go out, right? So but I think porn is one of those things that young men need to modulate and find in such that they get their mojo. This all has knock on effects for women. And I think the data is also suggesting that the crisis amongst men is causing, in many situations, a crisis for women as well. Because men and women exist in an ecosystem that needs to be somewhat balanced. So I'd like to talk about the impact this is having on women. One of the things I've found interesting, it's actually because of a young woman came up to me in a bookshop.
Exploring the crisis in romantic relationships among men. (26:33)
I was just there looking for my own book as you do, just because it just came out. And she said something to me that a lot of women that have approached me or DM'd me have said quite frequently, which is she's over the age of 13 now. She's committed much of her life to her career. She's single. She's tried dating apps and she doesn't enjoy it. And part of me started to think about the fact she might be caught in a sort of generational gap where they used to meet in person, but now the generation below her meet online. And she concluded what she was saying to me with the fact that she believes, or she's starting to believe that maybe there's something wrong with her. Because she's over the age of 30, she's single. She can't find a partner. She told me she's never had a boyfriend. She's killing it in her career. And she was in that bookshop looking for advice from a book. And I feel compelled, because I know she listens to this podcast to ask as many people as I can the question to find an answer for her, because there's someone very close to me in my life who I literally text when I left the bookshop. And I said, I've just met you in the bookshop. Every sentence that that woman said to me in the bookshop is the exact word for word, even like I've tried going to the gym and that's not working. Is the same as a close friend in my life. One of my best friends has said to me as well. And there's not just one in my personal life. There's three or four. Well, we all know women. I'm sure this happens to you all the time. Really interesting, high-character, successful, attractive women, usually in their 30s, sometimes in their 40s, who will say, I can't find anyone to date. And it's not that they can't find anyone to date. It's that they can't find anyone they want to date. And there's some dynamics here. The first is... Can I just interject to validate your point there? She also said to me, I'm not willing to drop my standards. And it's like Warren Buffett said, the key to a healthy marriage is low expectations. What's happening is, and I think his name's Chris Williams, he kind of reminds me of you, he's this handsome young podcaster who's blowing by all us old guys. You know, Chris? Yeah, and Chris. Anyways, he does a fantastic job, and I've learned a lot from him. But he calls it the high heels effect. And that is every year for the last 50 years, women have become better educated and they're making more money. And urban centers, they've now under the age of 30, blown by, they're now making more money, more single women in the US own houses than single men. They're getting taller every year.
Analysing societal expectations affecting women's relationships. (28:55)
And the reason he uses height is that 50% of women say they want data guys shorter than them. It's probably more like 80%. And even if they're not cognizant of it, just anthropologically subconsciously, they're just usually not attracted to men shorter than them because they have something telling them this individual is less likely to be able to physically protect you. So you just add a disadvantage from a height standpoint. Now, metaphorically, women are getting taller every year, and men are getting shorter, right? Men made socioeconomically horizontally and down, women horizontally and up. But when the pool of men who are socioeconomically senior to women, it just means that the quote unquote pool of viable mates for women is going down every year. And women have been told they can have it all. And what I found is you can't have it all. But let me put this away. You can have it all. You just can't have it all at once. And that to focus on their careers, which by the way, I think is a good thing. I think economic viability is just super important for everyone, including women. But the reality is as they have gotten taller, men have gotten shorter. So there's just less pairing. Society has a tendency to evaluate a woman's success through the lens of her romantic success. Not as much for men. People look at you and think, and I don't know your relationship, SaaS, but people are like, "Guy who's killing it. He's killing it." And he's single. Oh my god, it's good to be Steven Barlett. A woman in her 30s who's killing a professional is alone. It's like super successful, but your single status is a feature for women it's seen as a bug. And you both might be just as lonely. But it's, or you might be engaging in, and I'm projecting you, I have no idea what your situation is here. But there's this dynamic where the men who are in the top 10% can engage in Porsche polygamy. And that is women with online dating now believe, there's something wrong with this, that, and I'm going to be, this isn't going to get me in trouble, but let's rate everybody. Most people will acknowledge that some people are more attractive than others, and they find certain people less and more attractive. A woman of average attractiveness can have a relationship. And when I say relationship, that's code for sex with someone who's in the top 10%. But that individual is probably not going to establish a long-term relationship. And because of the lack of friction and connection, and meeting people via text message or online dating, the top 10% of men are getting 80 to, 80 plus percent of the opportunities for short-term relationships or sex. So they can engage in what's called Porsche polygamy, and that there's not a lot of motivation for them to establish long-term relationships, which leads to bad behavior and a lack of household formation. So the guys that most women want and believe that they should be in a relationship with are the least likely to establish a long-term relationship.
The disproportionate focus on attractive men in online dating. (31:41)
And then the bottom 90 either have little or absolutely no interest from women. So I want to be clear, no woman is responsible for servicing a man. But what I think has happened is this dynamic where because online has given everyone access to everyone, the majority of women are all interested in the same group. And this group is now much less likely to engage in a long-term relationship. And the result is just there's a disproportionate number of men and women who quite frankly are just lonely. But men have a tendency when they don't have a romantic relationship to not only not have that romantic relationship, but then they have fewer friends. They go out less. They're less professionally successful. You know, if I didn't have a mate who told me we need to save for a house, I'm not sure I wouldn't have been smoking pot and drinking every night. You know, she was like, if you want to continue to have a relationship and have sex with me, you've got to get your shit together. That's a man, young men need that. They need the guardrail of a romantic interest. The cocktail or the peanut butter and chocolate of a household where one person is more risk-aggressive, you know, that's really important. And pushing the boundaries of what can be done. And then another person who's more practical. And that oftentimes goes into gender roles, not always and sometimes this flip, but that's a powerful combination. One plus one really does equal three and across every species. You see that the majority of really wonderful things, including offspring, but other things in terms of building a society, are a mix of different attributes. And so we have just fewer and fewer of that peanut butter and chocolate and households. There are now more people not only living alone, but living with their parents than ever before because they're not establishing this relationship. So it has, it's absolutely bad for women, but typically, typically, women still are economically successful, still find places to put that love. And quite frankly, don't start killing themselves or killing others. So it's not that it's any less bad, but the knock-on effects tend to be less bad for society. And I went through the research from the Pew research, but also from the sort of centers of disease control, just to clarify some of these numbers for women as well. They cement everything you've said. Only 13% of women over 30 were married in 1970. That number is now risen to almost half the divorce rate for women over 30 has doubled in the past 50 years. In 1970, only 10% of women over 30 were childless. Today, that number is risen to almost 30%. In 1970, only 28% of women over 30 were earning more than their husbands. Today, that number has risen to almost 50%. And in 1970, only 12% of women over 30 were living alone. Today, that number has risen to 35%. And on the point of loneliness, I was looking at how many men versus how many women have a best friend. And it's multiples more. So multiple more women, I find still have relationships regardless of this state of affairs, because they're better, as you say, forming social connections in non-romantic relationships with other women than men are. So it's a pretty bleak picture. And maybe most importantly of all, there's a clear direction of travel here. And if you extrapolate out that direction of travel, we don't get to a good place. Population decline, you spoke of it, and how that lopsides society, depression, mental health, suicide. So the question becomes, for me, what would you advise young men? You talked about money, so that was really interesting. So maybe we start there, personal finance and establishing that. I'm a young man, so say 21 years old, what have I got to do with my money? Where should I be putting it? How should I be earning it? So I think the three legs of the stool, we're going back to it, realocating capital as a young man.
Tips for young men on making money and investing wisely. (35:54)
One, start making some money to put yourself in environments where you might have a random encounter with a stranger. Also, and I know you engage in this, we're going to reallocate four to six hours a week to physical fitness. Feeling strong, feeling in shape is one, there's studies coming out now that it's supposedly 50% better than pharmaceuticals and talk therapy. Two, you'll be more attractive to mates, you'll feel better about yourself, you'll be more kind. I think that is incredibly powerful. But in terms of economic success, and I have a book coming out of March on this, I think there's a basic algorithm to financial security or economic security. The first is focus, and that is focus, find something. I hate the term, follow your passion, because typically people mistake passion for a hobby, and then they go, I should be a DJ, or I should be an athlete, or I should open a restaurant, and they choose industries where the unemployment rate is 90% plus. The riders are on strike in Hollywood, the number, there's 180,000 people in the actors union, SAG or AFTRA. And the percentage of them that don't, or that make more than $24,000 a year to qualify for health insurance is 12 and a half percent. So I would argue that there's under or unemployment for nine and 10 actors. So find something you're good at, where there's an employment rate of more than 90%. And I want to be clear, some people follow their passion, and it pays off hugely. Jay Z followed his passion as now a billionaire, but I tell young men, assume you're not Jay Z. Find something you're good at that has more than a 90 plus percent employment rate, which is 99% of professions. And then invest the requisite 10,000 hours, perseverance, grit, willingness to break through hard things, willingness to suffer in justice, which is a guaranteed attribute of the workplace, and get really, really good at something, or at least have a path that being great to something. Also, in terms of being attractive to potential mates, there's very few things that are more attractive. If you're not already economically successful, then a plan. This is my plan, right? That's what I think romantic potential brand partners want. You don't need to be a baller. You don't need to be driving a Porsche. You need to have a plan. And that plan might change. That plan might not work out. We got to have a plan. So the first is we're going to focus and we're going to find something we're good at, and not only something we're good at, but something people will pay us for. That's the first thing. You got to make money. But the second component, the key to wealth, isn't as much how much money you make. It's your ability to live a little bit like a stoic and live below your means. And that's one thing I always did. I always live below my means. I never had that. I never used credit cards for stuff. And that is incredibly hard in our society, where every talented person and now AI and algorithms are finding you at a moment of vulnerability and convincing you that you need a new set of on trainers that, oh, wait, it's worth it to upgrade from economy to economy comfort to economy plus to business class. I mean, it's just the market's ability and a capitalist market to find you a product you must have when you have any disposable income is just remarkable. There are so many amazing ways to spend money in London and New York that to not spend it all and or not spend more than all is real discipline. That is that shows incredible character at a young age. You need to live like a stoic. Your advantage as a young person is quite frankly to live in a fucking shoebox and spend no money on rent, spend no money. I used to make it a game. One summer at UCLA, and this was more out of survival or need, but if I didn't make $3300 between my junior and senior year at UCLA, I wasn't going back to college. I owed the fraternity a ton of money. I wasn't going to be able to pay my tuition. So I had 11 weeks to make $3300. And I figured out if I just lived in the fraternity in a shitty little room that I was paying no money for, and I only ate top ramen bananas and milk, I could save. I could live on $110 a week. That was my total budget and I could do it. And when you're a young man and not like that, it was still a fun summer. I would still go. We would pull money and go buy a case of Schmidi beer. And then on Sunday, Sunday nights, we'd go to Sizzler, this tacky restaurant in LA for a brewing special Malibu chicken and all you can eat salad bar. And I used to go with the other members of the crew team and just clear them out and spend three hours gorging. But we still had a good time. But when you're young, I think you want to lean into this great thing where you don't have to spend money. It is impossible not to spend money when you get a little bit older and you start collecting dogs and kids. You can't sleep on someone's couch. You can't sleep in a shitty apartment. You can't walk to work. You can't live on top ramen and bananas. So the ability to gamify and really try and live below your means. And then that creates an army of capital. And that army of capital goes out for you and starts making money for you when you're in your sleep. And that goes to specific investment advice. The first is, and people don't like to hear this, do away with the notion that you are brighter than anyone else and going to be able to figure out individual stocks or investments that allow perform the market. I can't convince you of that 100% and some of it is fun. And if you want to learn about a stock and you want to buy Nvidia or you want to buy Doja coin, fine. But try not to do it with more than 30% of your save money. Try to take two thirds plus of your save money and put it in low cost ETFs and index funds. Because here's the thing, our flaws of species is we don't realize how fast time goes. Because the majority of us for the majority of history have died before the age of 35, we can't process how fast time is actually going to go when you go past 35. At the age of 39, we stop. We have no longer have the ability to process the way we change in terms of our own physical appearance. So from the age of 39 on, and I can validate this every time you look in the mirror, you're like, fuck, what is that? Because you can't process what is happening to you because for the majority of your species history, you weren't around post 39. You and I hopefully will be sitting here in 20 years or over a beer. And I'm going to look at you and I'm like, how fast did it go? And you're going to be like, Jesus, like a blink. And so if I said to you, Steve and give me 20, give me find out a way to save a thousand bucks, a thousand bucks. And in a blink, it's going to be worth 6,000 because I have this magic box. How hard would you try to get as many as much of that capital to put in that box? The power, the power of diversification and time, because if you diversify, I can get you 68% a year, right? Every day, 51% of stocks go up, 49% go down. But if you invest in any five S&P stocks over 10 years and don't trade them, no one has ever lost money. 85% of day traders lose money.
Importance of diversification and starting early in investing. (43:13)
If you buy five stocks, put them away and never look at them again, 10 years later, no one has ever lost money. So diversification, and this is where I really screwed up. I didn't understand the power diversification. Successful people fall into the trap of thinking, I'm a baller. I'm smarter than everyone. I'm going all in on Cisco because everybody wants internet infrastructure. I'm going all in on Amazon. If you went all in on Amazon in 99, in 24 months, you had lost 90% of your principal. Even Amazon, the best companies in the world, if you look back, the majority of them have had 24-month periods where they went down 90%. But if you'd held on, you'd held on and you'd endate trading, you'd end look at your stocks, you'd be up 30 or 50 X now. So the power of diversification and also a recognition that time is just going to go so much faster than you think. So focus, find something you're good at, the people will pay you for, live like a stoic, spend less than you save so you can develop an army of people who are killing it or killing people and invading the earth while you're in your sleep, recognizing the power diversification, and then appreciating how fast time will go. And not trading stocks, just let time take over. If we give every baby, and this is a potential solution to what I think is going to be an oncoming crisis among seniors or too many of them that we can't take care of, if we gave for 40 billion dollars from the US budget, we could give every baby $7,000.
Role of mentors in the development of young men. (44:21)
And I think we treated them like infants and we put it in a savings account, ETFs, diversified. By the time they're 65, just with that $7,000, if you didn't let them touch it or trade it, it'd be worth a million bucks. So the fastest way to get every senior a million bucks and granted it's 65 years from now would be to give every baby $7,000. And that just shows you the power of compound interest and time and diversification. I think it's fairly simple, those four things, but they're not easy to do, easy to do. But everyone can do them, almost everyone can do them. And for anybody who really is, they've got $3,000 in their savings account, they have never invested a penny before in their life. They don't know any of the terminology we just used. They don't know what Vanguard means, they don't know what low fees mean. What is the simple way of getting them on the right track from that point of I drive taxis, I've got $3,000 in my bank account or $500. What do I do? Go to Charles Schwab or public.com, open an account, and first off find out the equivalents in the UK are like hard-grief lands down. You can do a lot of this stuff on a lot of different apps where you're picking a fund, right? Go into SPY or go into an index or an ETF that buys a bunch of stocks for you, make sure it's low fees, and find out, and I wish I knew more about the tax law here, find out if your employer or the government offers you some sort of tax advantage vehicle. In the US, it's Roth and 401Ks. We have ISA, we have a retirement system where you can invest in your retirement. And you have to understand that shit. And if you don't understand it, find your daughter or someone who can explain it to you. And then the key is just start and put it in an ETF or an index fund that tracks the entire market, low cost, low fees, and find out if you have access to anything that's tax advantage. But the key, the key is to start. But you only have $100. Well, Christ, again, that $100 in 20 or 30 years will be a thousand or more. And not only that, it gets you a taste for flesh. I remember I went on my first safari and they said, unfortunately, we have one lion attacking human. And now all of them appear to have a taste for human flesh. They never used to go after humans before. But once they get a taste for human flesh, like, oh, this tastes pretty good. Let's start killing people, killing and eating people. Just a hundred bucks. And then you wake up and you're like, oh, it's worth 108. It's worth 112. You get a taste for the flesh of how powerful money and time and investing is. And just start. I also think it starts to make you feel... In a weird way, I think it makes you feel... And I'm just saying this because I can relate to it as a man. I think it makes you feel masculine to feel like I'm taking care of myself. I'm strong enough to live below my means. Discipline, isn't it? Yeah, it's like working out. You just feel better about yourself. And I think living below your means and creating an army of capital, everyone talks about starting a business at scale so they can make money in their sleep. That's their goal. You can make money in your sleep by saving it and investing it. But the key is just to start. Quick one. This is really, really fascinating to me. On the back end of our YouTube channel, it says that 69.9% of you that watched this channel frequently over the lifetime of this channel haven't yet hit the subscribe button. I just wanted to ask you a favor. It helps this channel so much if you choose to just subscribe. It helps us scale the guess, it helps us scale the production and it makes the show bigger. So if I could ask you for one favor, if you've watched the show before and you've enjoyed it and you like this episode that you're currently watching, could you please hit the subscribe button? Thank you so much and I will repay that gesture by making sure that everything we do here gets better and better and better and better. That is a promise I'm willing to make you. Do we have a deal? Scott, every time you mention male role models, your demeanor changes a little bit. Same more. And I see the emotion and passion in your face. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I could easily come up the tracks and all these wonderful men from different parts of my life. I mean, this is one of my books, the "Algebra of Happiness" was an option to be turned into a series and the series was going to be like an R-rated version of modern family. Because this was the reality of my life. I live with my mother and her boyfriend for seven years who was a male role model for me. We were that family that they don't talk about in movies or dramas. And that is we were the second family. Terry was married with kids and every other weekend he used to come spend with me and my mom. And you immediately think, this is a bad person. He was wonderful to me. He was a great role model. He was generous. He was kind. He taught me a lot about what it meant to be successful and a good person. And after him and my mom broke up, he reached out and kind of tried to stay involved in my life. You know, I had men like that. I remember meeting men. I met a cam counselor who would just stay in touch with me. And he was in technology and he taught me a little bit about programming. And here's the thing. Here's the thing, Stephen. And this is, I mean, the bottom line is when we go to solutions, the number one solution for what Ailes' young men is other men. And that is, if we want better men, we have to be better men.
Emphasising discipline and character in personal growth. (50:09)
And I think the ultimate expression of masculinity, where it shows you're powerful, you're strong, you're smart, is when you get involved in a rationally passionate about the well-being of another child. That is, that shows you have hit a certain level of success. And unfortunately, I was on Bill Maher, I'm doing a lot of name dropping right now. And I said that and Bill Maher immediately went, well, I'm not going to get involved in every any 15 year old boy's life. They're going to think I'm a pervert. And the reality is the Catholic Church and Michael Jackson have fucked it up for all of us. And that is 99.99% of paternal and fraternal love that men want to display and get involved in a young man's life is positive. And society has taught us to be suspect of those men. And it's a real shame because those random, generous men who came into my life were instrumental in my development and turning into a productive citizen. I think a lot of men have those inclinations and that desire to get involved. And the good news is these young men in need of guidance are everywhere. Sometimes it's just your friends' kids because biologically kids start pulling away from their parents because they need to get out, leave the nest. So they start thinking anything your dad says is just wrong and stupid. But your dad's friend, when he says the exact same thing, you kind of nod your head and it makes sense. And young men who need guidance are everywhere, everywhere. My nanny's kid is struggling. Your friends' kids are struggling. Young boys are struggling. I get emails every day from dozens of young men who are clearly just like good kids trying to figure it out. They're just trying to figure it out. And they want a little bit of reassurance and a little bit of guidance in someone just to tell them that they matter. But yeah, that the number of men just randomly with no self interest who got involved in my life was just, I mean, literally a gift. Several of them. And a lot of these men are finding role models online like Andutate, who is many people describe as a symptom of this crisis. Is there anything that Andutate says that you fundamentally agree with? I understand there's a lot that you have a different opinion on. But what is it that he says that you think has holds merit? I'll go for it in that. I think the majority would Andutate says is probably positive. It starts from a really good place. Take accountability for your actions, be in great shape, be action oriented. But it then comes off the rails. And then one of the ways you kind of take accountability or take action is to try to start treating women as property. Is to sign up for my class on how to trade crypto, which makes Trump University look like Harvard. I mean, it's just, it's a bit of a grift. And I also think that it, what starts off as positive. And that's most, quite frankly, that's the most dangerous thing about it. Because you can imagine a young boy, a young man, just agreeing with most of it. And so then they adopt the last 10 or 20%, which quite finishes really ugly. It's just misogyny. What do you think about the Bugatti and the Lamborghini and Hey, look, a young man wanting to acquire items that signal power and strength. So I'm wearing a panoray watch that I haven't wound in 10 years. Okay, how's that any different? Right? Because I want to signal my attractiveness and success to strangers. Right? So yeah, that's, I get it. I get it. But you know, the baller, the guy who ends up with more, what I'll call, lasting opportunities and quite frankly, more mating opportunities, is the guy who buys a Toyota and is saving money and is the first guy in his cohort to buy a house. I think the majority of people are less impressed by your things than you think. They're thinking about your shit less and you're thinking about it. I think people are really impressed with discipline and a plan. I used to believe, I think up until maybe two years ago that I no longer was in search of status to some degree, maybe like 70% I believe this, because I no longer have lots of material possessions. You won't catch me and I mean, you other than the car that you arrived here in, that's the nicest possession I own. I don't have sports cars. I don't have luxury items or watches or anything. And then I read a book by a guy called Will Store, who's been on this podcast, I'm sure the book's behind me somewhere, who told me that we just are the status games that we play just change over time. So instead of logos, we care about the size of the boat or even Jack in his profession as the director of this podcast is playing a status game of cameras and production quality. And that really changed my perception. I used to be quite judgmental. Once I'd lost all my Louis Vuitton and all that stuff that I used to buy of people demonstrating status. And I arrived at the conclusion that it's actually innately human. It's part of belonging and feeling valuable amongst our tribes is playing these status games. And I guess that's what the bagadi is a metaphor of it's the wealthiest man in the world. Bernard Arno, and it's usually the Bernarda Musk, but the wealthiest man in the world figured out that we want to feel basic instincts, the most basic instinct is survival. But a close second is propagation. What's that mean? Sax. And so the way you communicate your worth as a mate is by one showing that you have a Bugatti, because what it means is I'm successful and strong. And if you have sex with me, your kids are more likely to survive than if you have sex with someone driving a Honda. And women spend a great deal of money on ergonomically impossible shoes and expensive creams and lotions that elevate the height of their cheekbones. Because supposedly that means if you mate with them, their kids are less likely to be prone to infection. So this all comes to propagation. And it shows me any product that has a margin, gross margins of greater than 70 or 80 points. I'm going to show you a product that does one of two things, makes feel closer to God. I think the slope on the back of the 9/11, I think the mesh and a boutique of a net a bag, I think the sometimes great art that can really steal you, you look at something and you think, God, that just gives me a moment of presence here. That's because over time, the place we saw really, really beautiful things were sequestered to venues that had a religious overtone to them. The moss, the temples, the churches, the most beautiful artisans in the world were commissioned to come in and say, paint the frescoes on the ceilings here. Because we want to give people the impression that this is where God lives. And people started believing them when they heard the music and they saw the beautiful robes and the candles and the art. So when we are around really beautiful things, we just feel closer to God. And then the other maybe more powerful thing is its signals are worth as a mate. And the desire to be more desirable as a mate such that the next generation is smartest, aren't or faster, just never goes away. And the wealthiest man in the world, or it abates as you get older, but it doesn't, I don't think ever really goes away. But the wealthiest man in the world has tapped into our need to feel closer to God or be more attractive to potential mates. So I have a question back to you. Where do you spend your money? Great question. Businesses. So investing. Investing. Starting companies. One of my new chapter of my life where I'm starting companies and appointing CEOs or investing investing very early on and shaping the company. I have a lot of my money in the S&P 500. So just in funds. I have some money in a theory, which has been there for six years, five, six years now. It's done very well for me. So you're more evolved than I am. You know, one of the reasons I bought a home and Aspen, I think, is so I could tell people I own a home and Aspen. I'm, I'm, everyone has a certain level of addiction. You're either addicted to trans fats, THC, alcohol, codependent relationship, online shopping, whatever it is. I'm addicted to other people's affirmation. And one of the ways I get that affirmation is I don't want to say, I don't flaunt my economic success. I don't own a car. I don't, I don't wear blingy things or anything like that. But I do find myself telling people, you know, just obnoxious douchebag things. I hear myself talking about stuff that connotes my wealth. So I still haven't gotten past that. I mean, I still do that. I definitely still do that. And I still, and I, and I, the minute it comes out of my mouth, I think you're still in our cell. Oh, and I, then I do it again. I hear myself saying it. Oh my God, that's just so nobody needs to know that. Why is it important you that these strangers know this? And I still can't, I still can't get past it. It's still society tells you, especially I think it's a man that your worth is highly correlated to your economic success. And so the reason I have an iPhone, I think we all have iPhones because we want to communicate our worth as a mate. If you have an Android phone, you're kind of signaling to the rest of the world that life hasn't panned out the way you'd hoped that if you had been just a little bit more successful, you'd have an iOS, right? Seriously, it's like carrying a discover card. I have an AMX Black card that you want to talk about a douchebag. It's been $7,500 a year for a card. I don't even know what the benefits are, but I want when I'm out around food and alcohol and strangers, I want to throw down blacks. Do they think, wow, the professor is a baller. I like him. I want to be his friend or I want to have sex with him. And it's ridiculous. And the fact that every 12 months I get a $7,500 charge for carrying a card that's a different color. And I mean, I hear that and you know what, I've done it for 20 years. I'm going to do it for another 20. So I don't, it's kind of like do as I say, not as I do. What's interesting is to kind of suss out, at least become aware of these things. And to limit them, because I have a black card. Modulate. Yeah. And I think when they offered me the black card, I have, I'm like sponsored by AMX or something. But um, you probably get paid to carry a black card. That's the difference. But no, I still looked at the financial decision and there was this one here where it's like, we'll give you a concierge. I'm like, I have a full-time assistant. I have multiple assistant. I'm going to call some stranger in Dallas and ask where to eat. I mean, did you just not do that? I think I just went for the cheap option that comes with no perks, but you get the card. I'm still sure I'm paying something for it. But um, what I'm saying there is, it's for me, I thought, just get better. You know, you're never going to be perfect. I'm still going to have these like insecurities and try and show off here and there, but just try and get better and try and, you know, have less regrettable moments. And just by saying to myself, listen, have you gotten better over the last five years? I go, yeah, you know, the direction of travel is good. I think that's what matters. Well, that is, that's what it is to be an evolved person and to be human and to be, you know, you think about marketing, the key to marketing is A.B. testing and just trying to get better and better and better. And that's what we're trying to do as humans. So I evaluate your weaknesses and your strengths and say, where could I be investing more and divesting and what types of behavior do I want? Do I want to start out? I just think that's what it means to be a good person. Discipline and purpose and motivation. A lot of young people that will come up to you, I'm sure, and come up to me often ask this question, which seems to be like an invalid question, but they'll say something like, how are you always motivated? Or how do I find discipline? Maybe they're on the sofa playing video games, they looking up at a screen at someone they admire and they just think, I can't find what that person seems to have that sort of consistent tenacity towards a goal. I sometimes wonder if in areas of our lives where we're lacking the discipline and the consistency we're searching for, do we just need a little bit more pain? I've sat here and interviewed hundreds of people and you often find these rock bottom moments are the catalyst for a change in direction in someone's life and when they're not there, when their parents aren't threatening to kick them out of the house or their best friends turn against them and tell them, listen, if you don't change your act, you're not going to be a friend with us anymore. It seems like just the correlation I've seen is that there's a moment of rock bottom or pain where the incentive structure changes and people go, fuck, I have no choice now.
How moments of rock bottom lead to personal growth. (01:02:37)
The pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of making the change. I think that's right. I think most success involves sort of, it's not just sort of gradual up to the right, there's some shock value there. I think of George W. Bush talks about his wife, Laura. I think the same thing happened with his vice president at some point. They were alcoholics and basically their wives, their respective wives, both of them in both case said, I'm leaving you unless you stop drinking and kind of once they stop drinking their lives, their professionally and personally just took off for other people. I think there are moments like that for almost anyone who's been successful or maybe not, maybe it's incremental to just high character people keep plugging away. Alcohol though, interesting subject we've not spoken about. Yeah, so I think a lot about alcohol, first stuff I just made a knowledge, I love alcohol and I'm really good at.
Holistic Growth And Modern Masculinity
Importance of moderation and self-awareness in personal development. (01:03:30)
Like Winston Churchill, I believe I've gotten more out of alcohol than it's gotten out of me and I think there's this myth of addiction that everyone who drinks or does, you know, engages in THC is probably going to end up living under a bridge or be economically ruined. I don't think that's true at all. I think that the majority of people who engage with substances do so and maybe not a productive way but in a least a way that's not going to ruin their lives or their careers. And I'd like to think I'm one of those people. Having said that, if you look at the studies around happiness, especially the largest study to grand study, where they segment people into quintiles from the happiest of the least happiest, the most common attribute across the cohort of the least happiest was alcohol. And what I suggest, what I advise every person, especially young people, especially young men who are more prone to addiction to do is to do an audit of your addictions and to go through everything and say, all right, everyone has a certain level of addiction. What are things I just do a lot of that I could probably do a little bit less of and then decide what would happen. And the test isn't, well, am I living under a bridge or my addicted? That's not the test for addiction. The test is, would I be just a little less shitty at things if I did less of it? When I got really serious about my career, when I got really serious about trying to develop the economic security to take care of my mother, I substantially decreased my intake of alcohol when I didn't do any drugs. And I found that part and parcel of developing the professional and economic success I wanted at an early age involved a level of just sheer commitment that alcohol wasn't conducive to. It was when I got into businesses later where there were more about relationships and had more opportunities to go out where alcohol kind of crept back in. But I don't think it's a bad strategy to decide that you're going to work and work out and invest in trying to meet people in that alcohol. Alcohol can serve as a decent lubricant as a young person to helping meet other people. It's just easier to approach strangers after one or two drinks.
Balancing career, fitness, and social life for holistic growth. (01:05:40)
But I don't think it's a bad strategy when you're on the up curve, really trying to make a lot of progress fast. Maybe think of your professional career, it's like a rocket. The majority of the fuel is just spent trying to get out of the soupy atmosphere. And then once if you can get out of the atmosphere into the orbit, that professional momentum will take you a long way. But it's really hard and costly to get out of that atmosphere, the inner orbit. And when you're really trying to kill it and you just need to be kind of all in on your career, yeah, that's probably a point where you want to err on the side of doing less rather than more. Quick one, you guys know that for years now my office has quite literally been everywhere. On a plane in the back of my car, in a terminal, in an airport or on a train, you name it, I've probably worked there. Ever since I started my first business at 19 years old, I've been working on the move. All I need is Wi-Fi, a desk and my headphones and I'm set. And one of the places that has always had my back when I'm struggling to find an office is WeWork. I've been using WeWork for years now, whether it's in Manchester, London, Manhattan or LA, WeWork is easy. It literally requires no thinking. There's no stress of finding the perfect work in location. WeWork does it all for you. Plenty of desk space, meeting rooms, collaboration spaces, drinks, snacks, it's all there. So for your next remote working trip away from the office, or if you want a new fresh space to work in, then don't just work anywhere. WeWork might just be your answer. And you can get 25% off your first six months of WeWork all accessed by using code CEOWorks. That's one word CEOWorks. And to redeem this offer, visit we.co/CEOWorks. As you may know, this podcast is sponsored by Heaul. If you're living under a rock, you might have missed that. I've come to learn over time, not all of the products they have are for me, but the ones that are for me have really, really changed my life in a profound way. All of the products are designed for different use cases and different people. For me, as you'll probably know, the Ready to Drink bottles are a staple of my life at the moment, and they have been for many, many years. But for a lot of other people, they have the Hot and Savory, which is a five minute hot meal that's nutritionally complete and contains all the good stuff that all your products contain, which is the 23 vitamins and minerals and the wonderful balance of sort of nutritional completeness. And then you have the bars as well. If you've heard about Heaul on this podcast, you've heard me talking about it a lot. You're aware that I'm an investor in the company. You're aware that I'm on the board of the company, and you're not sure where to start. I would highly recommend starting with the best seller bundle. Basically, we'll send you a package in the post containing all of the favorite products that people love. And then you try them all and stick with the ones that really, really fit you. The link is in the description below to try the best seller bundle. One of the things I've always mauled with is when we think about the stats we've discussed in the crisis and the issues in society, the direction of traveling, how we're living our lives, more digital, more alone, more lonely, more dependent on processed foods and sugars and other chemicals to keep ourselves seemingly balanced. It feels like the solution must be quite deep systemic in the way that we're designing our society. So the question I've always wondered is, do we have to just rip up the entirety of the blueprint of how society is designed to solve for these problems?
Addressing societal issues through economic reforms. (01:08:53)
Loneliness, depression, sexlessness, all of those subject matters? I don't think so. I think the solutions are simpler than the incumbents want to admit in corporations. A key component of entrenchment is the delusion of complexity. Twitter and Google and Meta will say that the hate speech and the polarization that they've created in the teen depression are indicative of broader problems in our society and are these really complex problems and they stare thoughtfully into the camera wake. We've got to solve these problems together. Yet, when they kick one account off of Twitter, the real Donald Trump, an election of misinformation goes down 40 to 60 percent in one day. If they educated social media, I think you would see a dramatic decline in teen depression. If you remove section 230 protections, I think YouTube would find ways to stop radicalizing young men on YouTube. I think the solutions are simpler than they're simpler, but they're expensive. Specifically, they're expensive against the people in charge and that is rich people in corporations. I'll give you an example. If you were to try and reverse engineer the problems in our society to one blast zone, one ground zero, I think it's what we said before. I think it's that for the first time in our society in democracies, it's happened in the US. It's about to happen across the majority of the 28 countries in the EU. For the first time, a 30-year-old isn't doing as well as his or her parents. That's a fundamental breakdown in the compact between a family and a society. They get angry and they blame the government or they start demonizing and then someone fills that void and starts demonizing other groups and says, "Oh, it's not your fault. It's their fault." That can lead to very ugly places in history. My solutions are pretty straightforward. If you have the average 70-year-old is 72 percent wealthier than they were 40 years ago and the average person under the age of 40 is 24 percent less wealthy and the percentage of wealth is a percentage of GDP controlled by people under the age of 40 is McCut in half. A house is 12 times more expensive than it was 40 years ago, but their income is only 6x what it used to be. We have too much money being crowded into not only the rich, but the old. If you want to solve, if you were to try and have one answer that would address, not all of it, but really take a dent out of obesity, addiction, deaths of despair, male abandonment, divorce, depression, if we raised, and I don't know the numbers here, but if we raised in the United States the minimum wage, if we tripled the minimum wage, I think he would go a long way to solving a lot of those problems. I think putting more money in the pockets of young people and reducing the rage and the shame and the deaths of despair and would go so far to solving loneliness. I think it's pretty basic. At the end of World War II, the top tax rate was 92 percent. We just decided rich people are here to reinvest in the middle class. When Reagan entered office and when Thatcher entered office, the top tax rates were about 70 percent. By the time Reagan left office, it was 27 percent. What we've seen across studies, University of California Riverside and Newsey Berkeley did studies on minimum wage. In Washington State, California, New York, where they dramatically raised minimum wage, the incumbents will tell you the sky's going to fall, businesses are going to go out of business, people are going to stop hiring. It's going to expedite them trying to figure out a way to buy the new burger-tron to make burgers, not humans. What they found was the opposite, that when you increase minimum wage, even dramatically, it grew the economy and jobs. Here's the wonderful thing about lower middle-income people. When you give them money, they spend it. The multiplier effect is more stimulative than when you crowd money into the top 1 percent. If a magic wand, first thing, a dramatic increase in minimum wage. There's very few things we could do that would have this much impact without increasing the deficit. It's time. We have unemployment, unemployment at historic lows. The employment market could absorb an increase in mandatory minimum wage. As a percentage of GDP, wages have never been lower, yet corporate profits have never been greater. Yeah, corporate profits would be hit. The markets might go down, and it would absolutely be worth it. This is ground zero. That's where we start. Capitalism is about a dignity of work, because there's such a demand. There's now 1.7 open jobs for every one person seeking a job in the US. I think it's 1.3 to 1 in the UK. We need to put more money in the hands of lower middle-income households. Full stop. How many kids have you got, Scott? I've got two, 13 and 16-year-old boys. What is it you advice you give them about the world? They're coming into there. They're adolescents, and they're going to be off dating and all of those things. If you have to equip them with, I'm sure you do. What are the messages you're trying hard to either directly equip them with or indirectly infect them with in terms of values and principles of life? For your oldest, you said he's 13. All this is 16. My youngest is 13. Okay, so 16 years old, Jesus. That's when it all starts happening. What I try and do is I think about, all right, I want to show these kids that I want to be kind to strangers. I want to work hard. I want to have good manners. I want to try and occasionally, someone says something, a service person or whatever, is rude to me. My ego is when I was your age, I felt like I always needed to restore the world's balance, and no one could be disrespectful to me or I got back in their face. Now I realize, occasionally, you just take it. Occasionally, you just take it. That's what it means to be a man. I try to be physically strong. I work out. I try to get them working out. I'm just trying to show them stuff because I find it's very hard when they get to a certain age to advise them. They don't want to hear it. So I'm trying to be that guy. I have an easier time advising other 16-year-olds in mine because mine is healthfully pulling away from me. I'll come back, but right now he's pulling away. What is masculinity? Isn't that you're writing a book at the moment, right? You're writing two books at the moment about various subject matters. What can you tell us about what you're writing about? Yeah, well, I'm finished with the algebra of wealth book. I'm just starting the book on masculinity, but I think we need, per our previous comments, I think some unfortunate voices have filled this void around masculinity. I think we need a new vision for modern masculinity. On the far right, I would argue that those forces have conflated masculinity with cruelty. I think people like Trump and Putin and Elon Musk are looked to as role models for masculinity for a lot of good reasons. But I think being a murderer, Putin, a criminal, Trump, or someone who has 11 kids, not of whom he's living with, Musk, I think that is exactly what it means to not be a man. And when I try and try for Kate, the three legs of the stool of masculinity, and I'm still working through this, and I'm curious if you have any thoughts, but I come up. So on the far right, let me back up the wrong vision of masculinity. On the far left, as far as I can tell, their vision of masculinity is to act more like a woman. I don't think that's right either. It's like, well, how do men, how do men become better men act more like a woman? I don't think that's not only what men in society are looking for, I don't think that's what women are looking for. I think if there's a fire or Russian soldiers pour over the Ukrainian border, you want some of that big, dick energy. And I also think that women are attracted to, generally speaking, this isn't true across the spectrum, we're having a really important conversation, everyone deserves respect. But I think demonstrating a certain level of unabashed masculinity is really important in romantic relationships. And for me, the pillars, or the three legs of the stool of masculinity, trying to distill it down to three things, our first protector. I think that I was in Seattle at the Western Hotel, and I was checking in, and there was an alarm went off. And they said, they closed the elevators and said, we smoke alarm has gone off on the 11th floor. And these firefighters about nine minutes later showed up carrying each of them must have been carrying 80 pounds of equipment and axes and all sorts of shit. And it was nine men and one woman. And they don't look at the cameras to see if there's a raging fire on the 11th floor, they just bomb to the 11th floor. They're just there to protect people. Like, yeah, we might die. Fireman is actually more dangerous than being a cop. It's more dangerous than being in the military. But they are there to protect you. And whether it's military or things are cops or people or or a head of household that's providing economically, I think being a protector is a key component of masculinity. And I also want to say that masculinity is not isolated to people born as males. I think a lot of women demonstrate masculinity. I think it's a wonderful attribute. I personally end up being more drawn to friends who have more feminine characteristics, which are also wonderful.
Modern interpretation of masculinity and romantic relationships. (01:18:21)
But generally speaking, if we're going to have an adult conversation around gender and gender roles in masculinity, I think we need to acknowledge that 90 95% of us will have an easier time embracing these types of behaviors, more commonly associated with people born as males and born as females. But the modern vision of protection, the modern vision of protection needs some nuance. And that is the trans community. I think most men don't understand at their heart, don't really understand the trans community, don't understand the notion that parents and a doctor might decide that a 15 year old should have surgery and go through transition with hormones. I think the majority of men don't when that hits them, don't understand it. And I think that lack of understanding can lead to unconscious discrimination and bias. And I think part of being a real protector is to acknowledge that you don't need to understand stuff to protect people. And that is, I think our first inclination should be as men. This is a community, maybe I understand this, maybe I don't, maybe maybe I do know trans people, I don't know trans people, to clear out the politics of it, clear out your misunderstanding. This is a community that is taking a lot of shit, even you could argue being persecuted. Your first role as a man in his masculinity is to move to protect them, full stop. That's what we do. We protect people. And we err on the side of protection. And I think that is a really, I think that's a really nice attribute to start from a level of protection. When you see someone being hurt, you don't even understand the situation. You see someone getting beaten up in a subway. If you see a fight about to break out in a bar, you don't need to understand the situation. You move to protect to protection, full stop. That's what we do as men. The second is provider. 70% of divorce filings are from women. And it's usually a function of three things. The guy loses his business, has a mental breakdown or goes bankrupt. Men are still looked to be the economic provider. And that's not to say that, and part of that is to embrace this wonderful progress women have made and sometimes acknowledge, many times acknowledge, that the woman or your partner is just better at this whole money thing and being supportive and getting out of her way. Because your job is just to ensure, play a role, that you can provide for the family. And then getting to a point where you can take care of yourself, take care of your family, and then expand the circle and start taking care of extended family, start taking care of the community, donations philanthropy. I think that's a real, to be a provider for people that ultimately you don't know is a form of masculinity, right? To plant the seeds of trees that you will never sit under, the shade of which you'll never sit under. And then the final one is pro-creator. And this is the one I'm working through and will definitely get me in the most trouble. But I do think the part of masculinity is being the initiator in a romantic relationship and pursuing romantic relationships. And there's a difference between pursuit and being a predator. And if you don't understand the difference, you've got much bigger problems. And because of some well publicized and heinous abhorrent acts where men abuse their power, now we conflate any sort of initiative or aggression around establishing a romantic relationship is predatory. And I don't think that's true. I think men's role in being more aggressive around romantic relationships and even aggressive is a tough word, being the initiator, I think that is part of masculinity. I think that's part of success. One of the things, you know, I hope my boys, I try, I think I told you this last time I was here, when I used to go down and do anymore, because it just got too much, but I used to force my kids whenever we went out to talk to a stranger. And we'd sit outside our house with my 13-year-old very upset because he untalked with a stranger. I wasn't going to let him back in the house. I'm like, just go pet the dog, just say hi, anything. But that ability to initiate contact professionally, personally, whatever it is, I think is fundamental to success. And so I think guys need to early on hopefully get comfortable with approaching strangers. Yeah, including strange potential romantic partners. Because the stats are showing that about 50% of people who end up in relationships made their first contact online. And it's funny, I had a podcast that we did about dating. I won't go into too much context.
Acknowledging challenges in online dating and building confidence. (01:23:09)
I don't want to reveal the guests. But a lot of the comments on that podcast were from young men that were really, I think, pissed off with me, to be honest, for not speaking to the person who had created the dating app and telling them highlighting the plight of men in the dating industry. As you've said with the amount of swipes a man needs to do to find a mate, I need to give a message to those men. I understand it. And let's move to solutions. So the first is, if you're in the top 10% of quote unquote attractiveness on a risk-adjusted level around economic success, women are attracted to men for three reasons. The first is their ability to provide. The second is how smart they are. And the third is how kind they are. Personality. Yeah. And also intellect can come through in personality. The fastest way to communicate intellect is humor, is to be clever. I've always thought, and I've, you know, I've always thought if I can make a woman laugh, she'll go out to go out with me. And here's the problem. So if you're in the top 10%, go online. It's going to be champagne and cocaine and a Mardi Gras women for you. I mean, just you're going to you're going to kill it. If you're in the bottom 90, the reality is the online dating market is humiliating experience for you. Because the majority of women and their right can have some contact or interest from the top 10%, maybe they're not looking who are looking for a series of short-term relationships and maybe a long-term relationship. But for the bottom 90 of men, especially the bottom half of just been shut out, they get no activity online. The wonderful thing about human sexuality is there's a ton of X factors, the way you smell, the way you move, your humor, your smile, right? The way your passion for a specific topic, the depth of intellect, whatever it might be, there's just the magic and mystery of the soup of human sexuality is so strange and it's wonderful. But there's one ingredient that soup that comes through online for men, it's money and for women, it's looks. That's it. And so it's great if you are in the top death style for those things, for either sex. But if you're with us in the bottom 90, it's about the magic and mystery of sexuality that can be expressed in person. And what you find, especially with relationships that begin at work, one will say, I wasn't interested in him and then I saw him present in a meeting or I saw how smart he is or I saw what an interesting person she is and how funny she is, these things are really hard to get across online.
Discussing the dynamics favouring the top 10% in online dating. (01:25:22)
And so we need to put more money in the pockets of young people, we need more third spaces and opportunities for them to meet each other. The number of high school kids that see their friends every day has been cut in half. We're no longer talking to our neighbors, we're no longer going to work. So where are people supposed to meet and find out that, yeah, maybe he's not rich, maybe she's not hot. But I'm into this person. I want to go out with them. I want to kiss them. But I've got so much optionality in both those cases that it seems that I value that less, right? We used to just live in, the options were my village. Now they are the intense. Everybody. But when we gave access to everybody, everybody's now under the, I mean, typically you're right, we were sequestered. You went to Temple or church and there were kind of eight single people, four men and four women, and they sort of pared off based on, call it, multiple of reasons there, they figured out their weight class. Now it's like, well, I don't have access to eight people. I have access to 8,000. So why wouldn't I expect that I'm going to get in the top desk? And what you find is that the metrics are so crude and base online that, I mean, we just stand up. I would, I would task people saying who have met someone online or who have met someone offline. Do you think you would have been attracted to that person, their online profile? Like if you saw a picture of them and then said, this is what I do with that, be like, yeah, that's the one. And that's the beautiful thing about, and it's important, we need more opportunities for people to bump into each other and not decide to give them the opportunity to kind of fall in, in lust and in love over time for different reasons that can only be communicated in person. Because us in the lower 90, that's our only hope.
The Impact And Regulation Of Ai
Importance of economic policies for genuine connections. (01:27:23)
And if you just graduated from Dartmouth and you got a job at Google and your Rolex accidentally slips into your profile picture on Tinder, you're all set. 99% of us are not on the top 1%, we're not working for Google, can't afford a Rolex. So you got to bring something else. And it's important to develop those skills, a good rap. Iron your goddamn shirt, blow dry your hair, work out a little bit. Like, figure out a way that when you get, if you have the opportunity to meet someone in person over and over, that they're going to be impressed by you. And then slowly but surely they think, I'm more than impressed by this person. I'd like to have a relationship with them. And we're creating fewer and fewer contexts for that to happen. If we're not even going into work, right, if we're not volunteering, if we're not going to church, like, where on earth do we, we're not going to the movies, we're not going to the mall, I used to walk around when I was 17, a senior in high school, we'd go into Westwood Village and we would just walk around, we're too young to drink, we'd get an ice cream and we'd walk around and we'd see a group of girls from Palisades High School, I went to uni, and about the fourth time we passed them, one of us would take the leap and start talking to them. Like, where does that happen now for young people, right? So I think it's economic policies and creating more third spaces. I would like national service. I know a lot of friends from Israel who met their spouses, their business partners, their mentors in military service. I don't think it should just be military, it could be service around helping seniors or healthcare. But we need to give them more money and more opportunities to bump into each other and fall in love with each other and be attracted to each other for the reasons that are unique smell. Can't smell someone online. And not like that, you don't even know what smells you're going to be attracted to. You don't even know. And so unless you bump off a bunch of people in person, we're just not going to have nearly as many connections and not nearly as many relationships. But I think there are pretty straightforward solutions here. Don't you think work is the most obvious opportunity? I think when we think about social settings where we bump into people like churches and pubs and a lot of the things that you still have on the high street that have now found a home online, don't you think there's a huge opportunity for employers to create that sense of bonding, the oxytocin, the relationships that forged in the hallways of the office by bringing people together. Because I have to say, I have always believed that. And even though the world went that way with the remote working thing, my teams, including all of the teams, the 30 people that work at the Diaries CO team, we've always been in office. And I've wrote a letter to them actually a year ago explaining this idea of freedom within parameters where you're trusted to make the best decisions for your life. But essentially, one of our core beliefs is that of course, we'll do some of our best work in coffee shops and on beaches. But being together, we'll make the stress less stressful, it'll make the work more meaningful, it'll make our lives more fulfilling. So I sent that letter to the team and they're all listening to this either upstairs or in here or in the office down the road. It was the best reaction I've ever had to any letter I've ever sent to my team in terms of fire emojis and clapping. Because I explained why and the first principles underneath my belief made we're about them. And it wasn't just we're coming in Tuesday and Wednesday because I'm the CEO and we'll do what I say. It was I understand that connection and it's why I've always done this podcast in person even through the pandemic is going out of fashion, but it ain't going out of our sort of Maslow-Vian hierarchy. Yeah, look, a lot there. So I spoke at the Wall Street Journal Europe conference. The piece of content that's gotten more viral than almost anything I've ever done, I got just a ton of shit for and push back. And I said, they asked me advice to young people and I started off, I said, if you're young, you should never be at home. Home is for sleep and you should be out and professional and romantic success is a function of the amount of time you spend outside your house. And so they clipped a young person, you should never be at home, home is for sleep. And thousands of TikToks with people doing stitches showing themselves making cupcakes or watching Netflix and basically and then they'd chime in and say, screw you, skagal, or why do we listen to these idiot boomers? Because they're saying, look, I love home going out as expensive. My apartment is so expensive that I want to be at home. Anyways, that the workplace, one in three relationships begin at work. It's a fantastic place to meet and fall in love. And because of some abhorrent behavior, it's gotten a bad rap. And if you're going to have an organization, the number one source of retention for a company comes down to one question, do you have a good friend at work? I go to weddings all the time with people who met at work. So, but there's some nuance here. The first is around remote work. Remote work is an unbelievable unlock for caregivers. Now, as people taking care of kids, people taking care of their parents, people trying to take care of themselves, or quite frankly, don't have the money to live near work. And so, to give them the opportunity to work from home a few or four of the five days a week or five is a big unlock. And it's something I think we should have a caregiver classification where we try to invest and afford more flexibility. If you're under the age of 30 or 40, much less 30, the office is a feature, not a bug. And where we need, though, there's some nuance here, and that is we need to modulate the kind of tech environment or some of the tech environment where it turned into kind of this boknalia and people having sex in the co-room and tequila everywhere.
Valuing social connections in the workplace. (01:32:48)
That's probably a little too much. But in my companies, I've always created on a regular basis a social environment for people to meet. And most of it's just socializing with mentors and colleagues and making friends. But sometimes people start the path towards mating. And that's wonderful. Because if all of a sudden there is no workplace or you're discouraged because HR would just rather nobody ever have sex at work, it just solves a lot of problems. You're taking out a third of the mating opportunities, a third. And so where are young people supposed to meet if you're if you're into work and you want to have influence and you want to do well and you want to develop economic security, so you're working all the time. And it's remote. Where on Earth are you supposed to meet somebody? And quite frankly, sometimes some of the most attractive attributes of you to potential romantic partners can be best demonstrated professionally. Now there's some nuance and I'm on a bunch of public company boards and we deal with this all the time. I think above a certain level of seniority, your fly is up and locked. It's just not permitted. But in terms of young people at a similar seniority or they're all junior, you know, my attitude is have at it, meet, fall in love, fall out of love, you know, whatever it might be. I think that's a, I think that's a wonderful thing. And I think community and friendship and meeting people at work, I have a rule at my company at PropG Media and we're only 14 people now. If any four of them are ever together, they get my credit card. I mean, they don't have physically out of it. But if the four of you are at, are out of play, football match, or you decide to go to Tulum, which they have done on a Thursday night or whatever, it's on me. Because that investment in community and friendship is worth it. It's a great retention tool and it also is important for culture. So I think we, I think that the ability to meet people at work is really important. You just have some nuance there. The 50 year old CEO is making millions of bucks a year, sorry, boss, off campus. And when we hear that it was, you thought it was consent, no, you fucked up, you're out. We told you this right here. We told you right from the get go. And I think it's important to educate people about the nuance of it. But to tell people, young people that they should in an intense situation where we tell them to work this hard in a competitive economy, to tell them that they shouldn't form relationships, sometimes lead to romantic relationships, it's just naive. And, and to your point, we've taken away an enormous arena or venue for making those connections, which we're lacking. So my sense is workplace relationships in 99% of the time are a positive. They're a feature, not a bug. I appreciate the nuance as well that you applied to that situation because I don't have children yet. I have a clear bias that that I've realized is there. And I did play forward the scenario where I have, say, I had four or five children now, how I'd have to adjust, or how I'd want the companies that I run to adjust to me. And so I have to kind of reflect that in the companies now, because there are people in my, my teams, even this team that have multiple children. And I think that's where the importance of that freedom part in the freedom of within parameters thing, where, okay, we have a set of guard sort of guidelines of how we work together that bring us together and for that synchronous collaboration and bonding. But also we appreciate that if we want to retain our best people, we need to keep them over all of the seasons of life. We need to be a great place to work through pregnancy, fatherhood, you name it. Yeah, I could tell when you were saying that it's great to be a young company. We're no one's had kids yet and the majority of people have had kids. That's not sustainable. And show me a CEO who is mandated back to office. I'm going to show you a guy who has someone else taking care of his kids as the money to live near work, right? Whereas a lot of people don't. So the back to office mandates have usually been dictated by someone who's in a real position of privilege. And I'd like to see a new classification of worker called a care worker, where if you're 10 care people, you just are afforded more flexibility. Also, we need to have an adult conversation. If you are working remotely the majority of the time, you're going to make less money. Getting into work is hard. It's expensive to cry sacrifice and you get rewarded for it. If your job can be if you can move to Boulder, Colorado, if your job can be moved to Boulder, it can be moved to Bangalore, be clear. The CEO of a big conglomerate running the European unit can be more talented than the person running the Americas. But if headquarters is in the Americas, the CEO of the Americas is much more likely to get the top job that CEO of the whole company. In every promotion, there's two or three people or more who are qualified for that promotion. The person who gets it is a function of the decider. And the decider is going to pick the person that the strongest relationship with and relationships are a function of proximity. So before you collect dogs and kids, get into the office. We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're going to be living it for. And your question was actually left by Daniel Eck. Daniel. I've never told anybody that before, but special occasion. The question he's left with is, "With AI coming in, perhaps replacing many jobs, what parts of humanity will become more important and what will matter less?" So first off, I'm an AI optimist. I think this catastrophizing around AI is narcissism. Technologists like to believe that their technology is the single point of salvation for humanity or is going to destroy humanity. It's just narcissism. I don't think AI is going to save or destroy humanity. The people who are most valuable are the ones who get out ahead of this technology versus what we did with big tech. We let weaponization of elections, teen depression, polarization get out ahead of the regulation. So I think the most important people is going to sound lame. Our government officials that are thoughtful and say, "We won't get fooled again and we're going to regulate this technology." But when the people that are making the technology are actually, it seems to be, going to government and saying, "We need regulation here." They didn't do that in web2 with social networks and stuff, but those people like Sam Altman, even Elon Musk was at the Washington the other day pushing for legislation. That for me says something. Yeah, what it says, Stephen, is that they're full of shit because when Sam Altman calls for regulation in front of Congress, this is their go-to. I can pull up clips of Cheryl Sandberg and Mark Zuckerberg saying, "We welcome regulation. This is their go-to." Keep in mind, these people are massively overconsulted by some of the smartest comms people in the world. Sam Altman says, "I want regular--" And I believe Sam. He's really earnest. He looks like a young, nice man. And concurrently, he has lobbyists in Europe trying to suppress regulation against AI. I mean, this is just such bullshit. This notion that stopped me before I kill again. And then they have armies of lawyers and lobbyists and paint the money, paint the towns of DC and Brussels and money to stave off any regulation. Despite their calls for regulation, there hasn't been a single point of regulation. And I speak to a lot of senators and elected officials, and they just roll their eyes and go. Senator Amy Klobuchar has been trying to pass antitrust regulation to break up big tech. That would be the easiest way to oxygenate both of our economies would be to take these incredible companies, break them up, and you'd see shareholder growth, growth in jobs, growth in tax base, more startups. These things have just gotten way too powerful. But when she has antitrust legislation, while Sundar Prashai will say thoughtfully, we should look at regulation and we definitely are open to regulation. We're talking to our partners. That's their go to. Meanwhile, there are more full time lobbyists working and living in Washington, DC than there are sitting US senators. So this is their go to stop me before I kill again. I want to be regulated. And wouldn't you know, not a single pass of regulation has passed. And is it because government can't get their act together? Maybe. Or is it because they want to give the public the impression that they're good people such that there's a lack of public uprising. People love these products. And our elected officials are just outgunned with some of the best and brightest lawyers and lobbyists who have literally overrun DC and Brussels. So this whole call or openness to regulation, it's jazz hands. It's a head fake. So I don't, but back to the original question, I really hope that some of the best and brightest and young staffers who understand AI get out ahead of this.
Discussing the need for regulation in AI and its impact on society. (01:42:11)
And the, you know, this is, we're going to see the first real externality of AI in Q1 and Q2 of next year. I believe, and I'll go something like the following. Putin's spending $70 billion and losing tens of thousands of lives every year on a failed invasion of Ukraine. And he can, the fastest way to victory for him is really simple. Is the election of Donald Trump. He's one. If Donald Trump is inaugurated on January of 2025, Putin has won the war in Ukraine. And if I'm Putin, I figured that out pretty quickly. And instead of sending 70 billion, why would I just spend seven billion on troll farms and AI tested information that will create deep fakes, the deep position Biden and Harris for 2024. And I have an amoral management team who, despite their calls for regulation and their concerns about the Commonwealth, will cash these checks and then post inauguration of a president just feel awful about all the AI generated misinformation that skewed these elections. So we're about to see a misinformation lala palooza in the first half of next year that takes AI, a murderous autocrat that is losing a war in Ukraine and amoral management. I don't think these are bad people, but when it's raining money, it kind of, you decide, well, oh, there's a problem here. There might be election misinformation. We can't figure out who's paying for all of this. We don't want to implement the technology to watermark AI because that would be censorship. And we're definitely not going to agree to remove our protections from 230 based on AI generated content that's been elevated algorithmically. No, let's cash their check. Let's cash their damn check and then we'll revisit what this all means. So I think aggressive regulatory oversight, I'm sick of calling on the better angels of CEO. Some sick of, for them, that waiting to show up. We live in a capitalist society to make more money is to be more loved. Brought a selection set of mates, people like you, you can give money away. So why wouldn't you want to be more loves who will ignore the externalities of your business? And to a certain extent, that's what a for profit company is supposed to do. It's supposed to make as much money as it can within the confines of the law. So the most important people around AI are elected leaders who need to get out ahead of this issue as opposed to realizing that one in eight teenage girls in the UK directly side Instagram is a form of their self esteem problems that often leads to suicidal ideation and self harm. We need to get, we need to get out in front of this one. So boring, the boring, important people here are the regulators. The 62% of people that say they feel lost in directionless though, I reflect on what Sam Altman's doing with this universal basic income program. And a few of these very smart AI people speak to universal basic income being the outcome. I, we will hand money to people in society because there'll be such little work for people to do. This is what I hear that we'll need to support them in some way. So we'll give them money. And my worry has always been that, as you said, the pursuit, the journey, the victory, the rejection, all of those things being central to our sense of like purpose and Ford motion and progress, is does that disappear in a world where we're just giving people universal basic income? The adiocracy vision I don't buy into it, we're all just going to be on a couch watching Netflix because there's not a need for labor anymore.
AI's role in creating purpose beyond traditional work. (01:45:49)
First off, people don't need work, but they need us purpose. So a lot of times when people are economically secure and they need purpose, they go to work for nonprofits or they do something that's not economically driving them. So you can find purpose without work. But having said that, there's a cadence to all technological innovation and it goes something like this. There's catastrophizing that it's going to do away with all middle class jobs, automation and the auto industry. And in the short term, there is some job destruction. And then, but we couldn't have envisioned heated seats or car stereos and employment goes up because there's new ways to leverage technology. And I think the same is going to happen with AI. There's going to be some industries and there's going to be some job destruction. But the opportunities for new businesses in AI and its intersection with healthcare education, it's going to create a lot of jobs. Now, there'll be some losers and some reshuffling, but I just don't buy. I think AI is actually going to over the long term.
Exploring new job opportunities in the age of AI. (01:46:46)
I think it's going to increase employment. It's just going to make them more productive and higher paid. And the people who don't adopt AI is not going to take your job. Someone who understands AI is going to take your job. But every technology in history has ultimately usually been some job destruction on the short end. One in three people in America used to make their living and farming. And so we were worried about all these technologies to increase output. Guess what? Now it's only one in 25. But employment has gone up. But we may come money now from what we'd describe as if you think about both of our careers, like some form of intelligence, whether that's, you know, so that's what I think none of those revolutions have taken on human intelligence. I think they've taken on our muscles. I think about the farming example you gave there. But this feels like the first revolution that's like taken the last thing I have, which is my intelligence. If someone said to me once, what is some AI expert on this podcast, just imagine there's someone through that wall there, Steve. Not only could they was their intelligence 10,000 or 10,000 times broader than yours, but they could think a million times faster than you can think. Who are you? There's a real arrogance to think that you are going to control it or that you will be able to perform better at it as a podcast or as a author or as a CEO or as an investor, you know, and that frame, is that going to be a reality that there will be a species or a being or whether it exists on a microchip or whatever, that is can think a million times faster than me and it's 10,000 times more intelligent than me. Yes, I go yes. In a world of robotics, will that species be able to move around as well? Yes. Okay. Well, it needs to move around, not really, because everything's connected to the internet anyway. And I guess, well, where do I fit in that world? Like, what am I? I understand I'll be good at releasing OXI toast and by hugging my dog and my girlfriend, but beyond that, I go, where do I even with driving? I think driving is the biggest employer in the world. And it's playing out the scenario where you remove all the drivers from Uber and Laurie drivers, and then they pull up at a gas station and their food is served by speaking to a large language model and then it spits out the back end. I go, where does, you know, that's been my, it's kind of like a black hole in my head. I don't really know what comes after that. Yeah, but we've seen it before. And so in the US, the largest employer or the most popular or the biggest number of jobs among the non-college educated is truck driver. Autonomous driving just makes sense for long haul trucking. I think that's where it's going to start. And what we've been really bad at in the past is figuring out how to take some of the incremental income created by that increased productivity and reinvested back in people in terms of retraining or, as you said, just giving them money. But you can't stop it. I mean, you can hold it at the gates for a little while, but eventually the damn bursts and trying to keep technology in a bottle just doesn't work. But at the same time, I think that autonomous driving over the long term is going to create a lot of jobs.
Discussing the effects of autonomous driving on jobs. (01:49:45)
And because people are going to free up time, the people who understand how to program and repair autonomous vehicles or drive this, you know, figure out the software or the lobbyists trying to convince San Francisco to, I mean, there's just going to be a lot of jobs. What it comes right down is it'll be more competitive. But the people who have those skills are going to make more money. And then the people who make that money are going to want to have nicer things and houses from people who need to show up. You can make a lot of money as a welder right now. And this goes to one of my solutions, only 3% of people in the US on LinkedIn, the title is Apprentice. And the UK and Germany, it's 11% in Germany, 50% of the population has some vocational certification in the US and five. We need much more, not only vocational training, but we need to stop shaming it. If you build a house, you're going to see that anyone who has these types of skills actually makes a really good living. And I don't know if AI is coming for those jobs. So in the information sector, the communities that have had Champagne and cocaine, and it's been disco for 30 years, programmers, services people or lawyers, those people are going to probably get hit disproportionately hard. But the incremental productivity gains, I mean, productivity isn't everything, but in the long run, it's almost everything. That's a Paul Krugman pope. This is supposedly going to increase productivity in the US over the next 10 years, 1.2%. That's probably going to translate to trillions of dollars in incremental value. So I'm just not, I think this is, I think, again, I'm looking forward to the conversation in 20 years. I think AI is going to create more jobs and more opportunities than it's going to destroy.
Ai And Future Job Opportunities
Analysing the positive impact of AI on job opportunities. (01:51:23)
I'm an AI optimist. You definitely inspired my thinking to be a little bit more optimistic there because you're right, thinking forward. If we were in, I don't know, the industrial revolution, I never would have been able to, I could think about the things we'd lose, but I couldn't think about the things that we'd stand to gain through innovation and disruption and the internet. That was to come and all these other things. It's really hard for us to think about what will exist in the future and the opportunities, but it's really easy for us to think about the things we'll lose within that coming revolution because I just couldn't just point at them because they're all around me, but I can't point at things that I've never seen before, if you knew it, so what I'm saying. So thank you. Scott, thank you again for returning. The conversation we had last time was so enjoyable for me, but I just, I use my friends, my like, my five friends and my little WhatsApp group as a barometer for the great conversations. I look at the metrics, of course, the watch time, the retention, all those things, but so many of my really close friends said that he is just brilliant. Thanks for that. Thanks for sharing that. That's just the truth. I can maybe make a difference that said that and and it's and it's not just the extent and the depth of knowledge you have. It's you're a wonderful communicator. You're hilarious and you're hilarious in the most almost it seems unintentional, but it's a skill that that very few people are blessed with and you're blessed with that skill. I'm just telling really interesting stories in such a compelling, funny way that hold people and you don't need to shout and scream to do it, which I think is a real talent that you have. So thank you for coming back here. Thank you for moving to the UK. It means that we can have these conversations more often and I'm so excited for your book in March about wealth. Feel like a lot of people need that and even I'm especially excited for your book about masculinity. I'm so passionate about that subject matter that I almost thought I didn't need to write a book about that. So knowing your writing it means that I definitely won't because you'll do a one- - That's motivation. I gotta get it out. - Well, I know a lot of people. I know a lot, even like Chris Williamson's, I know a lot of these people have told me they're going to write a book about it, which speaks to the need. And my best friend in my chat actually said to me, because I was like, "What? I've got this two book deal with Penguin. I need a second book." He was like, "I would love someone to write about what it is to be a man these days." - There's going to be a ton of them. - Yeah. - There's going to be a ton of them. But just let me thank you for the kind words, which let me say when I'm on the road for more than two or three weeks, first thing I do is I come home and I go see my kids and I usually get home late at night and I can sometimes, and it's sad, I'll notice they've grown. Because I haven't seen him in two or three weeks, I'm like, "Oh my God, he's actually grown." I haven't seen you in 13 months. You have blown up. I didn't know who you were. I'm seeing you in airports. I'm seeing you across media in America. So I can't tell you, like I peek into the room and I look at you sleeping. You have grown a foot. So congratulations. My sense is you've hit a tipping point. So congratulations to you and the team. It just feels like you guys are killing it. Thank you so much. I am the face of this operation, but you probably can understand that I wouldn't be able to function without people that would just like me. And that's exactly what I have. That's what I have in Jack, who was here from the very jump when we had zero podcasts and nobody knew who we were. That's what I have in the team, Jemima and all of the broader teams. So thank you so much. We're doing our very best to make things better. You were actually a huge lift in our success because that first conversation we had did so well with a huge new audience in the United States and the momentum has for us continued from there. So thank you, Scott. Thank you for your time. Very precious. I appreciate it. Thank you, Stu.