Jack Maynard: The Untold Story: How Being Thrown Out The Jungle Changed My Life Forever | E71 | Transcription

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Introduction

Intro (00:00)

That's it, I was like my career is over. I had no confidence or no. I was like a shell of my form myself. You don't often get to hear about the real human implications of cancel culture. You don't get to hear how it feels for the recipient. You don't get to see how it plays out in the moment. My next guest, he can tell you, Jack Maynard was caught in the middle of a well-known, well-documented British Council culture moment when something that he had said almost 10 years earlier resurfaced while he was at the peak of his powers, while he was fulfilling his dream. While he was in the middle of filming, I'm a celebrity, get me out of here a couple of years ago. And the events that would unfold following that Council culture moment would change him forever. PTSD, anxiety, depression, shame. He even remarked today that there was a high chance he wasn't going to make it to this podcast because some of those symptoms still remain. I guess the question is, how do you pick yourself up from something like that? How do those moments feel? What actually happens when you're told while you're in the middle of the jungle in Australia, filming a show that the outside world has turned against you? These are the things you can only learn from hearing the truth from someone that's been through those situations. So without further ado, my name is Stephen Bartlett, and this is the Diaries CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. So, Jack, I did a lot of research on you and your background, what you're into, the work you do.

Personal Experiences And Mental Health Journey

Youtube and your family (01:44)

And your professional endeavors are quite eclectic. It's hard to pin down whether you consider yourself to be a YouTuber now, or a DJ, or something else. So despite all the research, I wanted to ask you, I'm not a fan of like a labelling one. How do you classify yourself now? I still do describe myself as a YouTuber. Like to everyone on me, I kind of say, oh yeah, I do YouTube and you still to this day get a look of like, which means you do YouTube, that's your job. But I think like you said, there's kind of a collective of things that I do, and when I kind of break it down to everything I do, they yeah, like kind of fully understand now. Like very recently as well, people have only just started to understand like what it actually is in that YouTube and just social media itself can be obviously a job. So yeah, I still go for YouTubers, my GoTo. You don't post as much as you still on your main channel. No, mainly because literally at the beginning of last year, I decided right, I want to go kind of bigger productions, a lot of the music videos I've done and things like that. And I just want to kind of get out there like other kind of really want to just get loads of like celebrities and like reality TV stars on my channel and do loads of fun things in places like, you know, all over the world with them. And then obviously kind of COVID came in. So I was just at a point where I was so like honestly like sick to death of filming videos at home. Like in my flight, you know, I was honestly just beyond board. And I had so many other things I was doing as well. Yeah, I think you I think I saw four videos this year. Yeah, not many is it considering I was uploading once or twice a week before. But yeah, like I said, I really just kind of couldn't face doing those kind of videos. And for me, YouTube's always been saying that I enjoy so much and my best videos are honestly that videos I kind of enjoyed making the most. What's the like the people will look at YouTube as especially young kids and they think, Oh, God, I'd love to be a YouTuber. I think I read a report that said one of the especially in the Western world in the UK, one of the jobs that people aspire to the most gen Z is to become a YouTuber. Yeah. But I'm sure and I know because of Spoken's, a lot of YouTubers that there's a lot of adverse side effects of the job. Yeah, definitely. I think, well, first thing is people think it's obviously like people do think it's easy. 100%. You know, you get to sit around making silly videos in their eyes. I think if you ask, you know, 100 people, probably 80 of them would probably say, are they just kind of sit around making like stupid videos? They don't see a lot of the stuff kind of that goes into it. But it's definitely not easy. You know, there's no guarantee that you're going to do well on it. You have no idea. If you do well on it, how long that will last and all, but you know, there's all those kind of things and it's just a lot of pressure because it's not like a, cool, I know I'm going to do these every week. I'm going to get paid like X amount. This is going to be my job. This is going to be my career. Like you're on a salary. It's like, no, you could, you know, you could put all your time and effort into it and maybe like money into certain things you're trying to do. And if it doesn't pay off, it's definitely. And the algorithm changes. Yeah. Well, things are changing on it constantly. You've got to really like kind of try and keep up. Yeah, exactly. It's just, yeah, you can have a month where you do really bad or you upload a certain video that you're really proud of and it does really bad. And you're just like, Oh God, why is that? And then you kind of fall back to your safety now of things that you know, maybe we'll do well, but you don't want to do those anymore. And it's just like a, yeah, it's very hard. And I think it does affect people in like many different ways. Some people kind of love that and they love their challenge. You want to keep on going, which is amazing. So like, yeah, like I said, there are people who want to do this one thing, which can do incredibly well. And then it switches and it suddenly doesn't do well anymore. Not for any fault of their own, but just because YouTube have kind of decided, yeah, we want to see more stuff like this, and they can push all that kind of content. And yeah, people get incredibly bad, like mental for me. And I think people are very vocal about that now as well, which is, which is amazing. So it's really good. But I think, yeah, especially obviously all YouTube is pretty much like self-employed so if you are doing very well and then one minute, it drops and that's it. I remember Frankie Kecosa said to me. Do you know Frankie? Yeah, he's from Brighton. Yeah, Frankie said to me one day, and I'm sure he won't mind me saying this, that obviously after all the fame he had, a fairly young age, X Factor, he did a couple of other shows. And then the money dried up. Yeah. And he was like, well, I can't go and work at fucking Tesco now because I just like an ego still. Yeah. Yeah. And it was the money that the ego is kind of still there in a way. I see that with YouTube as a lot. I think I think they, because they've been in the public spotlight and they've built fame or notoriety in whatever way, they then feel like they can't go and have a normal life because fame, your family is fairly famous, I'd say. Yeah, relatively. Yeah. Had your grandparent, your grandparent, your granddad and your dad, Ross was singers. Yeah, so my granddad, I don't know too much about it. So I know my dad, I probably did like West End when he was younger and like a kid. But he might keep making that up. He's like, "I used to be a football player." But I was like, "Yeah, my granddad as well was like a kind of like stage singer." Nice. Things like that. So I think that's probably where my brother gets it from. That's for sure. And I guess he's had like the most fame out of all of us. We were getting here. He kind of started on, he's the more, you know, traditional, like famous like pop star, whatever you want to call it. But he kind of, yeah, the same as me, so I don't YouTube and he's kind of like back to that now as I was kind of gone all circled. So he's kind of back on there. I was that when I've got two brothers and I know people ask you a lot and I've seen them ask you a million times, like, "Oh, are you jealous of your brother?" Or whatever. But how was that when he started to get a little bit more well known? And you're a younger brother. Yeah, he's two years older than me. So I've got two older brothers as well so I can relate. Okay. I can't relate to them being famous. Yeah. To be honest, it was there like honestly was no jealousy because I think one I was so young like the other, she's still in school, just finishing school, like leaving school. He was like kind of, yeah, relatively famous, got signed, all of this. So he's doing like really well, great money coming in, like moved to London, all of these things. So it was just like so cool. He was like so cool to just be around all of that stuff and just experience it all with him. And it was kind of more, again, I said not jealousy, but I like saw, I just saw like opportunity there. I was like, there must be something I can do even if it's like working for my brother somehow doing something. I don't know what it would have been, but I knew I could have kind of figured something out and just conveniently my brother like basically broke up with his girlfriend. She moved out and he was like, Oh, do you want to come and live in London with me? And I was like, yes, obviously I want to do that. Absolutely. So I made a deal with my brother because he kind of knew he was like, I was always I'm in an a ring about starting YouTube. And he was like, well, let's make a deal. This was the best deal I've ever made in my life in a way is I'll let you live in London with me rent free, but you have to like, you know, promise your maker and put out a YouTube video once a week every week. Why did you say that to you? Because I think he like it just needed he needed to like incentive from me that I am like actively like working and I'm at the same time, I'll still try and find other work in London. But it's like he wanted me to live with him like he did. He kind of like needed me to live with him in a way. But at the same time, yeah, he didn't want me just living there rent free, living it up, doing nothing. So yeah, it was like a pretty good deal. And very fortunately for me, didn't really pinpoint why, but yeah, my YouTube like took off really, really fast after about kind of two months of doing YouTube. And really need to find a job anymore. I was making like more than enough money to kind of carry on. And luckily he was like really good friends with people like, well, and then so it was like this point, like Casper Lee, Joe Sarg, all of these who were, you know, Oh, geez, huge at this time. So we all just kind of started filming, you know, every video like all together as like a big group. And then it just like, yeah, really like blew up from there. So the golden day, yeah, definitely the golden day. That's for sure, right? Yeah, it was everyone talks about those moments like Alfie does the same. I know Josh, I've met him a few times. Yeah, it's fair to say it was so much easier then. Like I could sit at home and film some weird game with my friends. I get like three million views in like a week just off that one video. So it was just now now if I did that, it wouldn't do the same. So this is when I got to the point where I was like, right, I want to do like something different from all the others. I don't want to come up the next YouTube body. I kind of want to break ground in terms of like TV and and YouTube.

I’m A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here! (11:00)

Yeah, your first experience on TV mainstream TV. Yeah. Is that a led? Yeah. How did you feel? You get the phone call? I didn't think it was going to. I honestly did not think I was going to get on it whatsoever. But I was like, let's definitely go to that mean, you know, the whole thing of it. So they can see my face and we'd love to just chat to you about something. You go and meet them. Just call me in flight and meeting and don't know what it was that day. I remember leaving the meeting thinking either there just like really nice and good at acting or that one like so well. I just like kind of felt like I was on fire that day. I got a bit in there like nothing to lose. I was like, I'm not going to get it. But this will be, you know, I was more thinking cool. Maybe next year than the next one. And I like will get on if I carry on and do all this kind of stuff. Was it an audition? Wasn't an audition. It was just a meeting. You need to agree. You met like the casting people, I guess. And I know a few of my friends had also met them. I think like Casper and stuff had also met them. It was like two months. I just had the meeting and I never told anyone for some reason. Like yeah, like I just didn't think it was going to happen. And then the boys, oh yeah, this like meeting as well. And I was like, oh, oh, we all went there. And so I was like, oh God, I'm up against like these people. I'm definitely, I don't think I'm going to get it then. And I'm like, oh yeah. And we got the, we got told like a couple of weeks ago that it's not going to go any further. Thanks coming in. I was like, oh, I haven't got that cool. I didn't say it. I was thinking I was like, I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened unless my manager hasn't told me or something. And literally it's like the next day they called it, oh, we really want to meet Jack again. And I think I met them. I don't really remember the meeting. This one was more just sort of like a kind of how it all goes. If I do do it and literally like the next day, they were like, oh, we want Jack to do it. Can you do it? I was like, obviously, obviously I can do it. I was so scared though, because I'm actually like terrified of bugs. So I was so excited and I was like, this is it. Could you, I couldn't tell people for a while, right? No, I couldn't. Obviously I did. But I was just like, obviously I was like, so scared. I was like, how the hell has this happened? But one thing I always said, and this is like bad. Obviously I did when I knew I was doing it, but I never actually really watched the show before. Obviously I completely knew what it was. But I didn't realize how big the show was. I didn't realize at that time it was arguably the biggest show in the country. Huge show. Yeah, between like that kind of strictly and things like that, all like battling out for number one. So yeah, I just kind of prepared myself for it all. Like I said, I was, I was feeling great going into it. I was feeling like really good. How much notice did you get between knowing when you were on the show? I think I actually knew for like a while. I must have known for like a couple of months. I remember getting there and people are like, I found out literally like a couple of weeks ago. Really? I was like, I knew for like ages. Like I said, I guess they knew they were getting the YouTuber on like, probably at the end of the season before they're like, cool, next year, we needed a YouTuber or something. So flight to Australia. Yeah, I'd done all my stuff. I was feeling good. Flute Australia. And I was the first one to get there. So I was there for a week, like no phone. And I was an idiot because when I said I was in the jungle, people were telling me like, oh, do you not just bring another phone and hide it? And I was like, obviously I was too scared to do that. So I was like, oh no, I actually didn't do that. Yeah, everyone did. Well, they were the guests of the phones. They just had another phone with them somewhere in their suitcase. So they were just like talking to their friends, like, yes, whatever. Like, no, I didn't know who else was there at the time. But when I was in the camp, well, while they were in the jungle. No, no, no. Whilst they were like in the like, kind of the lockdown, each kind of thing before you shine a hotel room for a week and you don't see anyone didn't have a phone. I was like, boring time in my life and you're like jet lagged as well. But luckily, the lady who was looking after me, you know, she just, I could not leave my room without her being next to me. She was really nice. Like, we got along so well. So I was really happy with that. And every morning at breakfast, she's like, oh, like, you know, another one's got here and another one's got here. And she wouldn't tell me who was, but she'd give me clues. And then I was like, oh, it was just annoying me. I was like, I wonder how my social media is going. Yeah. That's just what my thing was. Like, and every day, think of me. I post that every day, do all these things. They're so weird, not checking it. And I was like, look, let's make a deal. I can't deal with you. There was no deal on my heart, my phone. But, you know, we do me a favor. Just don't see anything. Can you just go on my Instagram and let me look at like what's been uploaded and let me just see, it's going well. And I think at the time I was averaging like 40 to like 60,000 likes. So it was going like pretty well. And then she's like, yeah, but you can't look at the comments or anything. So I might be saying, who's in there? It's like deal. And I didn't actually look. But I looked at my photos and I was getting like 250,000 likes. And I was like, what? And that's when I realized how big the show was. Like that moment, I was like, oh my God, just from being announced. Yeah. Like it's just gotten crazy. And I was thinking, you know, maybe they're making a bit of a like, it's probably is causing debate like, oh, this YouTuber, Izzy, a celebrity, Izzy, not. And I was like, welcoming that. So I was like, just get more people like talking about me, he gets my name out there more. So that's when I was like, oh my God, this is massive. I need to win this. I need to win this. I need to, I need to win this. What was your strategy? Because I've always thought if I ever got into like reality TV show, I'd be like, how do I not be a prick? Like, to me, it was just on it like, to be honest, to be honest, at that point, I had like no anxiety, no stresses. I was not scared at all. I wasn't even nervous. Like nerves never hit me. That was always one of my strengths I found. So I was just, yeah, I was like confident, not so much coming out. I'm going to win, but I was just so confident in that, you know, I know I can go in there and come across like, fine. I know I won't go on there and be like a horrible person or whatever. That's just not who I am. So yeah, I was confident and when in there, first couple of days of filming with everyone, just felt like great, like so natural, I guess. I kind of knew what was going on a little bit because we got partnered up straight away and obviously the youngest, I was the youngest person on there, but I was the youngest guy and then Toph was the youngest girl and then we got partnered. It was like the people at home voted who was together. So I just kind of saw where that was like going and it was like cool. So they're trying to do that kind of story with it. So you went for it? So I think, I was, I think she's like a very smart girl. I didn't ever play a character. It was like play the most entertaining version of yourself the whole time. I'm just like, yeah, kind of giving the people what they want. And I knew she was doing the same as well. She read into the situation and I remember thinking, I was like, oh, it's going to be, it sounds really mean for the other people on there. But I was like, I have a feeling maybe it's going to be between like me and her or I think we'll both do like really well. If we keep as we're going, it was just like little things like you realise we were just maybe saying the most like kind of jokes between everyone and like we were maybe the most like having the most like fun with it. A lot of people quite stressed and stuff, but we're having like a lot of fun. And then yeah, obviously it took like a massive term. I don't know what you're talking about. If you don't, that's fine. Maybe I won. Yeah. You won it. Congratulations. Yeah. No one knows. What happened next? I mean, I don't think I'm allowed to get too into in terms of like what happened on set. But it is like in terms of- I won't tell anyone. Because I was there in the morning. It's like too pretty. I mean, it must have been like 6am. Something like that, 5, 6am. And it's like a rule like two people always need to be in the camp at one point and they were calling the voices of God, the person on the mic. It was like calling people to go and do something like, "Oh, you need to go down there and I realize I was on my own." And I was like, "Swear this isn't allowed." And I was like, "Oh, well maybe, you know, we've been in here a few days now. They're like loosening up and whatever, you know, we're all adults here. I'm sure I'll be fine type thing." And I was like, "Oh, Jack, can you come to the medical hut?" I was like, "Okay." And I had two things on my mind. First being I had a tick the day before. I was like, "Oh, maybe they're just checking in on that." Or as well, I was really depressing. I was like, "Oh, here we go." Because they always in the show kind of pull on to the side. They have like a secret mission-y type thing. They do in the show. There's always someone who has to do something about anyone else knowing. Is this that? Oh, maybe it's that. So I was like going there, like really, like, quite excited in trees. And then I went in there, just like the producers and stuff, and I was like, "This isn't very good." And I was like, "What?" I was taken out with like no explanation whatsoever. I had no idea. You weren't given an explanation. I was not told for like four hours, not taken out and the hotel was like four hours away. And pretty much until I got my phone, which was the hotel, which was that far away, I didn't know anything. They just said it was like, "Oh, something online." I was like, "Wow, that's really- Oh, that narrows it down." Like my whole life's online. This is something- Something online. I'm just thinking like absolute like worst case scenarios of what could like possibly happen to a young guy on TV because I was thinking all kinds of things. Like, it's weird. Like, you're sitting there thinking of things, "I know I've never done in my life, but I'm not a god." Someone maybe said something. Yeah, someone said something or made something up. Well, I don't know. You're just thinking the worst. And you're panicking. And then it was like the weirdest. You get back to the hotel room. Finally, and I get my phone and my phone's like so crazy. And then, well, I think like the next day I realized they'd actually like announce me being taken out before they took me out. So like, I mean, yeah, everyone knew why I'd left, but I didn't.

Finding out what happened (20:58)

So I was seeing things and I was like, "What the hell?" I was just like, "Oh, you know, I hope you're okay. Like, I can't believe this." And all that. And I'm like, "Oh my god." And I don't know what to do. I don't want to look at it. And then my eyes closed like my phone's man. Right. I don't know what to do. I've got two calls I need to make here. I've got a call from my brother and then like a thousand from my manager. So I call my manager and it's like my manager, lawyers, the CEO of my manager, everyone. There's like everyone of any importance in my life is on that call. And yeah, it's fine. You know, this is something that's been going on for like nearly a week in the papers and stuff of like tweets and everything like this. And obviously I'm in there. I don't have a phone to I have no control. I can't say anything. How are you feeling then? I was like crying. I was like, "Oh, I was like all over the place." I was just so frustrated. That's what it was. I was like, so frustrated and like angry. Why? I don't know. I just felt this could have all something. They were sitting on this for a while, these tweets and stuff. No, it was deleted long before I went on the show about a year before I went on the show. They didn't exist anymore because they were awful. They're stupid. So I kind of got rid of them when I was kind of coming up on YouTube as I went on the first thing my management made me do. They're like, "Let's go for everything." And anything you've said that is just idiotic. And I was like, "We should definitely definitely do that." Because I knew I'd had Twitter since I was like 15, 14 or something. It didn't have to get to the point where I was taken out to then have to address it or I wish I could have before I even went on. Or after. Or just after kind of like stuck with it and kind of... Had to more drown into it. Yeah, it just made it look worse. They said, "Jack wanted to leave and address it." And I do feel like I did need to address it as soon as possible. Don't get me wrong, but I mean, yeah, I didn't say, "Yeah, I should leave here." And address these things. So just frustrating. And yeah, so I spoke to my management. We kind of went over everything. What happens now is like, "Do you want us to come Australia?" No, I just want to come home then. Because I was like, "Although I knew I'd done bad things. How it was all handled." I had like hatred at that point. At that moment in time anyway, for the people that were involved in the show that were near me, I said, "I was so frustrated." So I was like, "I don't want to be here. No way. I want to come home." And if this is it and this is done, then I'm coming home. What is the point of me being here? Yeah, I was going to come home. So that was a range. I was literally flying like three hours or something. So I just like, legged it. So yeah, probably, yeah. Again, I hadn't looked at my phone. I hadn't looked at anything. I opened WhatsApp, Twitter, Instagram, nothing. I still don't really know the extent of what's happened. And then I called my brother. He was like speechless as well. But again, he'd kind of been, I said, "This has been going on for a week." So he's been on the phone type. My management and stuff for like, you know, days and days and days going through all of this kind of trying to help. I don't know really what they were asking him or how we could kind of help. They were like, you know, "Be no one reached out to you. Don't say anything. Don't comment on anything. Don't do any of these things." And he was like trying to help in whatever way he could. Did you worry that it might have an impact on him? Yeah, when I spoke to him, that was kind of one of my thoughts, to be honest. I felt like I just like fucked it for everyone. Like I said, at this point, I didn't really know. And then we were talking about it. He felt like, you know, this is my time to shine and all of this. It could have been like life changing if I'd have, like, let's say I went on like one. It could have been, yeah, life changing. It was, but not in the right way. And then he was like, have you looked online or anything? And I was like, no. I don't want to. I was like scared. And he was like, oh, and I think you should have a look. I was like, well, he's like, look, just hang up. Have a look online and stuff. Go on Twitter. So it did when I went online on Twitter. To be honest, all I saw was like support for me because it was a thing of everyone new. What I said was very stupid, like me, like really bad. But, you know, people also knew what I was going to say. People have kind of been there themselves. People once said that, OK, yeah, he was like a kid at the time. I was actually like still in school when these things that happened. It was before I had any kind of like following. I didn't want the Jack of today to be known as the Jack of like when I was 15. I fully understand. This is like one of the conversations I had with my mum. I like, except when I was like 15, 16 or whatever, it wasn't a very nice like kid. I was pretty like bad. I was like, kind of a naughty kid, I guess. So people like understood that. Like, you're an idiot. But at the same time, we feel kind of like, sorry that this is. Come back to like bite me on the arse, you know, like seven years later or something. In that moment when you go online and you see everybody like the world, you know, it must feel like the world is ending to some degree. What are your thoughts about your future in that moment and like? Oh, I thought that was it. I was like, that's it. I was like, my career is over. But I also wasn't thinking, oh, what am I going to do? But I was just like, I don't care about what I'm going to do now. But I reckon that's it. But then also when I saw online and like the amount of support, I mean, it was like ridiculous. It's like trending number one, like Twitter and all of these things. They was just like huge in the amount of celebrities that were like in my corner or whatever you want to say. It's like very overwhelming. Weirdest one I saw was like, you're like, you're kidding. I was like, she was like, oh, don't worry, Jack. You're an angel compared to me. Because obviously she was on the show and like nothing happens. That's not a personal one. Yeah. I don't want to find you. There's like Donald Trump and Katie Hopkins. And it was like everyone was just very divided. I think it was to sum it up. You know, I apologize at loads times on TV and my YouTube channel in like newspapers and everything. What's the silver lining? Oh, my God, I like to think I probably actually won't go anything. Won't go through anything as bad as that ever again. Like the toll. It kind of took on me like my mental health and everything. But that didn't kind of come until like year after because I think like I said, although I was very upset and everything. I kind of rush it all under the rug type thing and just put on like a happy face. I asked, you know, whatever kind of time to go on with it. But me, it was like, I've definitely learned a lot from this. Like I know now what is and like absolutely isn't like acceptable and how to like deal with those things and like move forward and just how to face horrendous situations like that. And like said, hold my hand up and fully take like the blame obviously, but it was just like. Did you have PTSD? I think I read that. Yeah. So it was like. So I've gone full gun, ho on fuel and from having, you know, a little bit of an eye at the data, it seems that I'm not the only one in times when we know that we're going to get our lives back and we're potentially going to be having a great British summer rebound. There's a lot of people like me right now that are piling into fuel. I'm doing a few things. I'm having fuel and I have at least two or three heels a day of the ready to drink berry flavor, but I'm also doing meal prep. And so now my diet is heel, which is super convenient and it makes sure that I'm hitting a lot of the things in terms of like vitamins and minerals that I'm not getting from my other food and my meals. And for me, that is the perfect combination.

PTSD, dealing mentally with what happened (29:07)

Did you have PTSD? I think I read that somewhere. Yeah. So it was like. So I said, I wasn't facing it for ages and then like a year later or like 18 months later. Yeah, I just started feeling like awful, like really anxious, like all the time and like just super like depressed. But at the time I didn't know it was that. I just felt really weird as like, what the hell is wrong with me? I didn't even like go for like dinner with my friends about like wanting to like desperately even like feeling like so uncomfortable. Like like my safe place was like at my home. I just wanted to be at home, became like a bit of an introvert because I didn't want to do anything massively affected my work in terms of I just couldn't face going to any kind of like meetings or anything doing any kind of work. It would like for me to do that. I'd literally have to like. I was like going through hell just to do like just to go to like a meeting or something. I had no idea what it was. And I was very quiet about it. I never like spoke to anyone, which was obviously making it worse. And then I didn't feel though in terms of it was like it felt like a lack of motivation. Yeah, it was just like I didn't want to do anything. I didn't want to have to face doing those things. Like basically now looking back and it had like a complete loss of confidence. I kind of felt like I wasn't good enough to do any of these things. I was like a shell of like my former self. Like I said before, I had like nothing. I was so excited to do that show. I was kind of going in there to win it and everything. Whereas now at that point, if they asked me, oh my God, even if I hadn't been on it, type thing before myself, I think they asked me, I'd have probably had to be like, I don't think I can do it because I don't think I'd have had it in me to. They kind of pushed through. And then yeah, eventually my friends kind of clocked on like, hey, something's really wrong. And I think they kind of knew it was my brothers being through it before, like really badly before me. It was like him and a few others and things kind of like, yeah, like all sat me down. And yeah, it's kind of like opened up to everyone. What did they notice? I was just like not myself. Like I said, I was like one of them, one of the main ones I remember was on my friend Josh's birthday and I had this thing of like, because I knew I would always want to like not go and leave these like events or dinners or whatever. I'd go early, they'd be like 20 minutes early, so I kind of get there, they sit at the table and just like calm down type thing. It's essentially like, I was having like an anxiety attack pretty much like once I got there when I was on the way. So I'd get there and like kind of get past it and then like get on with my night type thing and hopefully feel a bit better. But most of the time I'd get there and I'd leave before and I'd just text and some weird excuse. "Oh, I've got to do this, this has come up, sorry, I've got to go home." Or I'd pretend like I never went, but oh yeah, and I'm just not feeling great, not going to come. So they were just like, what the hell is going on? And Jack, did you jungle? Yeah, no way. I was like the life of the party in a way. I was up for doing everything and anything. You'd be like, "You can't stop me, it's like being..." But tell me back to the intervention. You said your friends had like this is due and sat you down, your brother had messaged you. So I kind of explained it to all of them. I still kept it like pretty close friends and my manager because she needed to understand. I didn't want to have to keep lying basically. I don't know, she, because she'd been in the industry, I think she probably knew what it was as well. It's very common. And this is what I realized when I spoke to my friends because they were just like, basically, yeah, like, you know, it's very like normal. Everyone might has it. At the time, I said I knew my brother had it before. What's it? Just like anxiety, like depression, like everything. But I didn't, yeah, I just didn't want to accept those things. I didn't understand, I hadn't really done any research. I didn't really understand when I spoke to my friends. And then, yeah, understood what it was. And although everyone's, it's very different from different things and it's caused by different things like different triggers or whatever. It's also like very much the same. People deal with it in different ways, of course, but it's like the same, like, feeling and overwhelming feeling and stuff. So when they kind of explained that, you know, they will add it and my brother was like, really good with it. Because I said he'd had that anxiety, like really bad. And everybody still, like, he still does. I still do. I don't, you don't just disappear, but you learn to, to deal with it. And yeah, just having that conversation, it's like cliche as it sounds, just talking to people about it made me feel so much better, like, unexplainably better. So yeah. And then there was just like kind of a gap between of like nothing, just kind of same old, probably doing a bit more work, but at the same time, still wasn't feeling great. But I think it had kind of like calmed down a bit and I figured out little ways to deal with it. And then yeah, SAS.

Deciding to get help (34:05)

It's how he wanted me. That was like a channel. That's the channel for channel full call. You're not Jack to do your up SAS. I hadn't done any TV since when you find out how do you feel? I was like terrified, but I think I would have it anyway, because like, SAS is crazy. It's like the crazy show. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I probably say it's the hardest show. There is. It's like, it is the hardest show. There is city. I remember thinking, why do I always get these like really hard shows? Why can't I just go on like celeb juice or something like that? It's like I'm going to sit there for the evening. Far as I, OK. What the hell am I going to do here? Because I just know in the back of my head, I'm saying yes, all these things. I'm just like, don't do it. I'm like, yes. Why not? And you know, they explained it to me as, you know, they were pretty black and white about it. Like this one, the city, like his big TV comeback and all of this. And I knew that was going to be a massive part of my storyline. I was like, oh, God, I know I'm going to say yes to do this and I'm going to want to not do it. I don't want to do it, but you can't turn down something like this. You can't turn down to show that big. So obviously, I've said yes, I'm going through with it. And then yeah, it kind of gets to the point where like my anxiety and everything and like my panic is like, I mean, the worst it's ever been. I didn't even want to leave my house in just straight away. My manager's like, I think it's time to see a therapist. Where was this in terms of the run up to the show? Where it got the worst it's ever been. I'd say like two months before the show started. Yes, I'm in like November. It was like, yeah, pretty like September-ish. It was like so bad. So I was like, yeah, I think you're right. I probably should. I've never been to the therapist before. So I was anxious about that in itself, which was really weird. Like speaking to one of them feeling like you want to like, you want to like die in this room because it's just so, yeah, you don't even know like what I was thinking at the time to be honest with you, but it was just horrible. So yeah, I think the therapist like three, four times a week doing all this, just trying to like figure it out before I'm on the show. And then she's just like, yeah, it sounds like you've got like PTSD basically. And I was like, what other when I hear that, I just think of like the army. Yeah, yeah. I was like, yeah, I think that's like quite dramatic. I was like, I don't even feel like qualified to be labeled as something like that because it was like, I'm not getting like shot at somewhere like, yeah, yeah. How? And then she just, yeah, like explained it to me. And one of my worst things was basically it made me feel like physically ill. Like I always feel like I'd want to leave because it made me feel like I was like like throw up or something like there. And then I felt like I was like holding it, but it was like, yeah, really, really bad. Like, you can't imagine like how bad it was. And then the best thing that she did was she went this book, it was called The Idiot Brain and it explains how your body reacts to the feeling of that anxiety and like depression and like, you know, the whole fight or flight type thing. And it basically just completely broke it down as to why I feel everything I do whilst it's happening. And that like again, like I said, when I spoke to my friends, it made me feel like, oh, just that one thing. Yeah. It's like the biggest way. And that was, it was the same kind of thing. I was like, now I understand why these things are happening. And it's not like what was the key thing you took from that book in terms of just like a basic principle. It was honestly the like the science behind it. Yeah. And it's like explaining like the signals like your brain sending out to like your stomach and stuff because it's like, it's a, you're in a sense of panic. It's like, imagine you walk across doing your back to hit by a car and you had loads of adrenaline type thing afterwards like that. There's a massive sense of panic and your body wants to like get out of something, get away from a situation. They use examples from like the caveman times. It's like your body is like sensing danger that there is none. And there's going to be a whole problem with it. Nothing's really happening. You're just scared of like nothing. You know, usually you do kind of get through it and you're kind of fine. It's like past memories relating it to trauma situations. Yeah. So it was just like a, yeah, pretty much just like a, that's why it was like a PTSD thing for me because I felt in a similar situation as when like the whole I'm a celeb thing happened really. Like I said, at the time, I didn't even know if it was that, but when she kind of broke it down to me, when do you think it all started? And it just made so much sense for it to be because of that. Like it was all around work and like certain situations that all similar to, to then because I'd kind of go to, you know, say an event, I just, yeah, you'd feel like I'm known as the kid you got kicked off. I'm a celeb anywhere I go. That that would always, you know, people would always be kind of talking about it. Like honestly, before then I probably would not have been able to do this. And like there's a high chance I'd have like canceled like last minute because I'd be like, I can do it. I can do it. And then it would come to the time and I'd be like, no way. I can't even like get in the car and, and drive here. But it was just, yeah, and it would explain why, yeah, your body is literally feeling that way. And it's just because it was like, oh, it makes you feel incredibly nauseous stuff because your body is like scared and tense and dangerous. You need to escape a situation. So it like your body, like the last thing your body's worried about is like digesting something. So I was like, the thing was, I was like, I never wanted to eat when I was anxious. I just like, yeah, I would not be thinking about eating. I wouldn't even get hungry though. Yeah. But I would just not eat anything like the whole day. And I would have lost like loads of weight from it as well. One of the most important quotes I, I read in the book Lost Connections was as a society, we used to think that like mental health disorders like PTSD and anxiety and depression were a consequence of like something broken in you. Yeah. But in fact, everything you've described goes back 10,000 years to the likes of honor and Africa Alliance running at me. I'm like, I need my body to get ready for me to say thank you. And so there's nothing the human body is working perfectly fine. In fact, the most important question is like, what's happened to you? And like, and that's where that's where my perspective on mental health disorder shifted because I didn't believe that when I looked at the data and there's this huge rise in mental health disorders. Yeah. And I know that like human beings aren't evolving anymore. We're not changing anymore. Yeah. If there's a rise in the data, what has changed to cause that? And then you think, okay, well, the only thing that's really fundamentally changed is the world we live in. Who started looking at the world, we live in and you're saying, how has that changed? You say, well, you know, 15 years ago, the average American would say they had three people they could turn to in a time of crisis. They now said they have zero. We're now living in these white walls between alone tapping screens. We're not speaking to friends. And all of these factors which are conducive with like positive mental health have now been slowly torn away. I mean, the lockdown is a great example of like extreme. And then there was a study which I talk about in my book where if you get an animal and you put it in a cage and you take away any companionship, you take away all of the animals of its time and you take away the ability for it to exercise and you take away anything that might give it stimulation. And then you give it the choice of drinking heroin water or normal water. They all become drug addicts. And if you reintroduce like a running wheel and another rat for it to be with, it doesn't become a drug addict. It doesn't choose the hair and water. And so what you're describing is like the same as all of the guests that have sat here with me is there's this key moment which is caused trauma. And I think that's really empowering for people to know that, you know, it's not, it's something that's happened, right? And you can address it from that perspective as opposed to just throwing drugs at it because something's broken. But tell me about the therapy process because I've not had therapy before. But I've always, I've always been intrigued by it. At my company, we had a therapist for all of our team members. Yeah. And I would definitely have therapy. I think I probably should. But how was that process and did it help? It was like, it was strange. It made, it did make me feel a lot better. Like I said, for me, I think this is just who I am. I think some people love talking about things and just getting it off their chest and it helps them that way. For me, it was just the understanding. Once I understood it and then like I said, I figured out ways to kind of deal with it as well. I don't think it ever goes away. If you just figure out ways to deal with it, I think if I'd gotten Uber here, I'd have probably actually been like more nervous. I don't think I wouldn't have like canceled, but I'm not on that level. But I would have still probably been a bit more like, I'll come kind of, I don't know. I think so you're not doing it. I love being like distracted. So I'd always like like TikTok, for instance, is like the perfect app for that I always found. It was like, it's really quick and it's like funny and like it was always like kind of but it was always just really funny. It kind of put me in a good mood. It's like really quick. So if I was in a new, but I try and do something like that, I'll watch some like YouTube videos and just keep my mind off kind of what I'm going to do. And chat before wouldn't I didn't have that question? Yeah, no way. I'd been honestly, when my brother would like talk about like his anxieties and like when he'd feel weird, I wouldn't want to come do anything. I'd like be like, what are you talking about? Like, it was actually like, just get over it. Come on, you'll be fine. That was like the classic thing that, oh, come on, you'll be fine. Like what could possibly go wrong in his mind? He's like, listing all the things that go wrong. He's just, you think of the worst case scenario pretty much. So yeah, once I kind of understood it a lot more and had my reasons, like, which helped me kind of get over it a little bit, I then did kind of stop seeing her. This was all very close to like the show. I kind of stopped once the show started, for instance. I haven't been back since because I think like, I will happily say that like, doing SAS like saved me somehow, it gave me like a new lease of life. Not like I said, not saying it's gone away by any means, but I just a thing there thinking, I mean, if I can do this and this being at like six o'clock in the morning, jumping out of a helicopter backwards into literally like freezing cold water in the middle of winter in Scotland, I can definitely go and do a podcast or something like that. And that's kind of like what I like lived by. And I still think of it sometimes, I'm like, oh my God, Jack, come on. When I was like, and at that point, I was honestly at my absolute worst. Like the night before I got there, I got to Scotland and like the morning of I tried to like pull out.

SAS: Who Dares Wins (44:53)

So they took, again, when we got there, they took our phones off because we, you know, just can't we see everyone who's on the show. So we can't text people, oh, I'll guess using the show and then they like the stories, whatever. You don't need to do that until maybe I was like, I kind of need like, I can quit. Yeah, I need my phone to call my manager and tell Aaron not to do it. Like that's what you would have was. And the best thing that happened that they took my phone, otherwise I would have called out, I guarantee it. But they had like therapists on the show. I would like, I'd spoken to quite a bit before. And I was very open with them and they kind of knew, I mean, everyone going on, they definitely had their struggles and they had their, their battles. And I'm not saying mines worse than anyone's, but I was definitely like very like vocal about mine and was that I'm not saying it's worse than anyone else's. But I was like, this is the worst it's ever been for me. Like this is the worst I've ever been. So prepare yourselves for me to be like a nightmare. And yeah, like I said, I didn't not, like people say like, I didn't get a second to sleep. They're like, I literally didn't, I was just sat there like, seriously, like, freaking, freaking out. And I was just like, what the hell am I going to do? And I knew we had to leave it like nine. And like knocked my door there. Oh, Jack, like, you ready? I was not ready. I was like, I wish I'd done it. I felt like cry. I was like so emotional. I was like all over the place. It was like really, I'd never been like so bad. It was really weird. I felt like very uncontrollable. And I was like, can I use your phone? I think I need to speak to the like therapist guy. I was on the phone team for around two hours. I'd, I'd pushed back the whole first day of filming so much, but they were like, like amazing. Honestly, like so good because look, realistically, I think they knew I wanted to do it. I probably was going to do it. I was having a serious moment. They also knew that my mental health was in like a really bad place at the time. They were amazingly understanding and kind of patient with me. And yeah, there was just kind of one, one woman there who was like, he'd be the exact or like a producer, maybe the exact producer, but she was like my go to, go to girl. And she made me do it because, like I said, I spoke to the therapist for ages and I was still a bit like, oh God, he gave me that very good thing of like, you know, one step at a time, he's like, get ready, go downstairs, see how you feel. Next step, you know, you're ready. When you're getting the car and get to the location and see how you feel. And like, it was like, that was like, again, they were like words of wisdom to me at that point. And I was like, I'm not going to be able to do it because I'm just thinking to the end of the show. And then while the hell am I going to do seven days, like no way. So he's like, you know, it's like one step at a time. Break it down. And that helped me so much. And then yeah, I was just kind of with her and it's such good advice. I think for anybody that's listening, I mean, pretty much in all facets of life, whether you're trying to achieve something great or you're trying to overcome fear, breaking it down into smaller manageable pieces makes it absolutely, yeah, it was like a game changer for me. Like those simple words, but it just helps you think in a different way. So yeah, I was just kind of talking to them, talking to her and I definitely, I said, like calm down. I was just like, hey, do you know what? Yeah, obviously do it, Jack. And I did want to do it. Like these things just, it shows crazy. I want to give it a go. Like, you know, that piece of me still in me, like, ah, I wish I, if it was more like, I wish I still had a need to kind of do that. Was I right? Let's go. And yeah, just kind of got on with it. Had like very highs and lows in there every time we finished the task, I'd feel literally like on top of the world, like everyone in there, you know, you just accomplished something I never thought I'd be able to do, especially like with how I was feeling. Then when we're going to going to a task, that's when I have the thing of, I'm going to want to pull out, I want to like leave. And that in the show, that's the kind of point you pull out when you've kind of reached your, your limit. And for me, definitely for me, a bigger part, although physically, I mean, it was just hell. Like it was how I got like so hurt doing it, like everywhere. But for me, it was definitely a way bigger mental battle. And I think probably everyone in there would say the same. It's, you gotta think, I don't need to do this. Like, if I get to the end or not, it doesn't actually really make a difference to me. I really hit my limit about God. It was like four days in. I think it was like a seven day thing, it was like the fourth day. Mentally, I was like drained, but also I was like so physically hurt and had like one injury that was like really annoying me. But, and I'm thinking, yeah, cool, I'm going to get to tomorrow and see how I feel. If it like still really hurts. I was in, I was at a point where I couldn't like run. It's more like a fast limp like on. And we got like halfway through that day, we just played a game called Murderball, which you can imagine is really fun, which involves being like rugby tackled by Tony Bell you and stuff like that. So, after that, I was like, I'm done. But the thing that like made me like a lot happy about it, one, I got further than I ever thought, especially the days before it, further than I ever thought I'd gotten like in 40 million years, when I feel like that I could be able to achieve those kind of things. And it really showed me like, you know, if you just commit, it's going to make me feel so much better, like afterwards, like if I stick through and just persevere and then at the same time, I was like, well, I've left after like completing something. So it was kind of like a, it was like a good sign off for me. I didn't get something and be like, no, thanks. I'm going to go. So like I kind of, I was like, look, I'm just going to do this one, tick this off. And then it's probably time to go because I can feel like they're like dying. Everything's so much pain. And I was just like, yeah, I mean, beyond exhausted. And you could be proud of yourself at that point. Honestly, like I was so happy with how far I got it. Like, you know, kind of had to be there. Moment when you're going through all that to understand how hard it is to do that for that long, but like two people get to the end of the show. So I was like, yeah, I was so happy with how far I got. And that really made me like feel like just so much better. And it kind of showed me like, you know, just physical exercise and feeling like that is so good for your mental health. And that's like carried on running after that and like training really hard because in the build up, I was training like twice a day, like two months. Quick one. Starting from the minute the lockdown is lifted, we're going to start bringing in some of our subscribers to watch how this podcast is produced behind the scenes means you get to meet the guests, meet myself and see how we put all of this together. If you want that to be you, all you've got to do is subscribe button.

Your mental health now (51:44)

Where are you at now in your life in terms of career, in terms of your mental health, in terms of your personal situation? Yeah, like mental, if I feel pretty good, like right now, I definitely have my days, like about a month ago, I had like a weird week. I was like trying to help a friend who was going through it. And they, well, who would just finally start talking about it and didn't know what was going on. And I was just explaining how it was with me. And it was like, that was the first time I spoke about it in like quite a while. So it just kind of made me just brings it all to just, yeah, brings it to the surface. It made me feel a bit like funny for a few days. But like to be honest with you, I think, like I said, a lot of my problems were when I was going to things and trying to do something where I felt really uncomfortable, kind of out of your comfort zone. As I just kind of got blocked down, you just have to be at home a lot. So I do definitely feel like comfortable. And I think it's been quite good for my mental health. And now when I have the days where I go out and I've got like, you know, a day of like work or something, I've got to go and do those things. I'm really happy to kind of be out and stuff. So it's kind of like, yeah, I think it's again. You nervous about coming here? You kind of really didn't talk. No, I wasn't. Do you know what? I was nervous that I was going to get nervous about coming. So when it came to, I was like, oh, I don't want to get to the day and be like, I don't, I feel a bit like weird. Yeah. I feel like honestly completely fine. Like I said, I'd have probably heard. No, yeah, I would have loved it. I didn't feel great.

Your relationship (53:08)

And so I hear talking about lockdown. I heard you, you got in a little bit of relationship over lockdown, which is, um, yeah, seems a lot of a relationship. Yeah, we were talking about before we started recording. Yeah. Been with your girlfriend now eight months. How's that going? It's never easy to go incredibly well to have a lockdown relationship. Yeah, definitely not like easy having a lockdown relationship, but we also don't know any anything else because we met like the beginning of last year, well, because we were neighbors. Basically, we were like our apartments, doors opposite each other and I moved in like the first week of March last year. So that's kind of like how we met and she had a dog. So there was lots of dog walk dates, basically. Excuse me. Yeah. Was it, was it difficult dating when you were, um, really in your stride with YouTube and you had like, imagine you people were stopping you a lot and stuff like that. And when you had the stuff on TV. Yeah, I didn't really date then, to be honest with you, because I'd like, there was like two things. One, I had in my head of like, you know, I'm just so like focused on what I'm doing right now. And I, I didn't purposely not, but I didn't put much effort into, you know, it wasn't really one of my priorities whatsoever. And I was just having, you know, I was enjoying, I was like, it's living life. I was having so much fun. Yeah. And like all of my friends were single as well. So it just, I don't know, just didn't happen whatsoever. There was no need for me to do that. And so my brother got a girlfriend in his prime of like his, his career. And I think he'd, you know, be the first to say that it. I'm not saying this is for everyone at all, but my experience, it like kind of held him back, not in terms of she held him back, but you know, just having a girlfriend, you have different priorities and different focuses and stuff. They're focusing on their life. Yeah. So I just like didn't have any real intentions. What's been the upside of having a partner? Um, because I'm a single guy. So I'm like asking, I want you to pitch it to me. It's the, the people I think people can say like, I feel like I feel like so much happier. I look at the days of when, you know, being single and like, wanted to like go out and do all these things and like, all like dating and stuff. Like I look at it now, like, Oh my God, so much like effort in a way where it's now so like just fun and like relaxing. It's very nice to feel for everyone listening to this, but that can't see him. He's saying all of this, but he's shaking his head. It's amazing. Definitely do it. But it's just like amazing being, you know, so comfortable with someone. I think for me, especially that was like a massive thing. I've been so uncomfortable in so many situations with like where I was at to then meet someone and be in those positions where normally I would be uncomfortable. And it's kind of like, you've been having her there, makes me feel like so much better without her even knowing it, just being with someone and whatever makes you feel, you know, so good. And I've never, I've never, I've actually never been in a relationship really. So it's kind of like my first relationship, which I don't know if she likes or not, really. You don't know if she likes it. Yeah. No, it's in like it's the fact that is my first relationship. Sometimes she's like, you know, I wish you'd maybe had a girlfriend for so you'd know this or that and the other. But I think she was like, it's the fact that she's my first and why wouldn't someone want to be you?

Why wouldn't someone want to be you (56:23)

I think the main one I'd probably say is there's like a lot of pressure like, but I'm the one putting that pressure on myself. No one's putting pressure on me, but it's just a lot of like self pressure. Like I'm in control of like everything. I'm like, it's a diary or like CEO. I'm like my own boss. I'm in control of everything I do. I'm in control of all my finances, like what comes in and like what goes out. It's all just kind of on me. So if I stop, you know, it all stops. I work my hardest. And you know, hopefully it kind of pays off. So it's just a lot of a lot of pressure in terms of, you know, wanting to keep going and like also expand like taking like every opportunity you can get. That's why, you know, I went from YouTube and I did radio and I was like, oh, I want to break that barrier to TV. And then I started DJing and doing like music and going on tour and all these things. It was like just grabbing every opportunity I can to kind of grow as much as I possibly can. But it's like exhausting. It definitely takes a toll. And sometimes you do need to kind of step back. But also I said, if I stop, kind of everything stops. So taking a step back is like not possible. Yeah, it's a bit of a risk. That car, was it carpentry? Yeah. Job you had on your 16. Yeah. There's sometimes you wish maybe. Because I'm like, yeah, because you know, my dad does find for himself. He's like three kids and we've all turned out like fine and we've all done well for ourselves. Sometimes I feel like I would be so much happier about that same time. I'm like, oh my God, like when I look back at some of the things I've done in my life, I'm like, that's amazing. Like I'm like, so proud of myself for some of the things I've done in the moment. It felt pretty cool. But when I look back and I'm like, that was like huge. And you're still so young. Yeah, 20 just about. Yeah, 26.

Future Plans

Whats next? (58:11)

Taking all the pressure off and I don't want to apply extra pressure here. But when you look forward at the next, I don't know, 20 years of your life, how in your mind do you see that kind of playing out? I don't mean like I'm going to be doing this exact thing, but I'm like, what are you looking for from life? I think I'm looking like being completely honest with you. It's kind of like probably looking more into like businesses and like business and having like, I said, I've got my own like production company right now that's doing probably way better than I thought it was going to be doing at this point, which is good. They're like things like that, just growing it as much as I can and you know, kind of the classic I want to be like a boss and across so many things. Not that I'm not working, but you know, it's not like I've got a nine to five type thing. So it's kind of like, like I was doing YouTube because I could kind of do whatever I wanted with my days, but I knew I had to do like kind of things and, you know, I'm still making like my money and everything like that. And I think, you know, I look at I'm probably not going to be 30 years old making like these kind of YouTube videos anyway, who knows? But I'm in niche for that. Yeah. So it's like, realistically, I look at my life probably like trying to go into into that kind of direction, just building something else. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing what you do next. I'm going to be watching very, very closely now that I stalk you on social media. So I think like you, as I say, you're like super young, but you have such a wealth of experience from everything you've been doing. I don't think, you know, sometimes we don't realize how, how valuable some of that experience has been until, until later in life. And in fact, I still think about my hardest ever moment starting a business as a young guy. Yeah. As being my, some of my most traumatic moments as being my most valuable because they like yeah, you have something that no one else has, right? Yeah. You know, you have experiences. Thank you so much for coming today. Thank you. You're really riveting and right. You've been so honest as well, which was the whole point of this podcast at the end of the day. Because I also know that you've helped a lot of people by walking us through your journey with mental health with, you know, and with learning a bit more about it. So just want to say a huge thank you. And if you ever do start a podcast, we'll do this again once you've been cycling for your listeners. But, uh, but yeah, thank you so much. It's really, really. Thank you. Thank you. People ask me for book recommendations all the time. And I finally got one for you. It's a book called Happy Sexy Millionaire, which is authored by me. There's this crazy thing when you write a book because you spend so much time pouring your heart and soul into it and everything you know and all of the revelations you've had in your life. And then there's this barrier, which is that people have to buy the thing in order for them to get that thing. That means so much to you. I wish that wasn't the case. It's just the way the industry is. And in order to get that distribution and to get it on shelves, you need a publisher. So please, please, please, if you can. If you've ever liked anything I've ever produced, this podcast, my Instagrams, anything I've ever said, read this book. There was no ghost writer. I wrote every single word myself. There's some real surprises in there. It's an honest, sometimes hilarious, incredibly vulnerable, hopefully valuable recount of my life, my journey, everything I've learned across the way. And really the answer to being fulfilled, to being happy and to achieving success. It is the most important thing I've ever created. So I implore you to go to Amazon now or wherever you get your books and get that preorder. If you get that preorder, I'm going to put you into a group with everybody that's preordered it. And I'm going to send you some exclusive stuff. So the first things I'm going to do is a series of voice notes, which I think are going to be pretty powerful. I'm going to give you access to some tickets, which nobody else will have. And I'm going to do everything I can to thank you for giving me that sort of nine quid of your money or whatever it is. Happy sexy millionaire. You can preorder it everywhere now. If you do get that preorder, please do DM me because I'd love to thank you myself.