Patricia Bright: How She Made Her Millions | E91 | Transcription

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Introduction

Intro (00:00)

This is like a therapy session. Patricia Bryant, she's a creator, author, entrepreneur with an incredible story. Growing up, my mom should take us to offices, to clean the offices, and we'll go to school, and she would say, like, just don't tell anyone that you're working at five o'clock in the morning. You just go to school in the morning and act like everything was normal. There is pressure for influencers to speak up on every topic all the time. Bearing in mind that my forte is makeup and clothing and finance, you know, to an extent. But we are not credible sources who know everything. We just don't. And I think it's really important for us to say. Speaking up on stuff that you know nothing about is very, very dangerous. I had a stalker for like three years, and it was someone who would like, just message me on all my platforms constantly, send emails, message family members. I did a meet and greet and event, and then they message me, it's like, ha ha, I was at your meet and greet. So I remember feeling so anxious. You didn't see me. You looked so terrible in person. Next time I'm gonna do something. Patricia Bright, she's a creator, author, entrepreneur, and a mother, and she has a remarkable, inspiring story. Growing up on a council estate, having her dad deported when she was just five years old. A Nigerian mother that came to this country doing cleaning jobs at night, which she took Patricia along to with her. And that mother became a property mogul. And Patricia, she became a superstar in her own right. So it's no surprise that when I looked at the comment section on a previous podcast episode, a comment requesting Patricia Bright to sit here with me and to be on this podcast, had over 100 upvotes. And now I know why. Her attitude, perspective, ambition, self-belief resilience is incredible. So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is the Diaries CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. Patricia.

Personal Journey And Experiences

Your early years (02:16)

- Yes. - We share one big similarity with our childhoods in the fact that we both had Nigerian mothers. - We did. - We did, okay. - I didn't know that. - Really? - No, I didn't actually. - Well, I still have Nigerian mothers. So I can't get mad. - Yeah, we did. - I have Nigerian mothers. And I believe both of our Nigerian mothers moved from Nigeria to the UK. - Yeah, yeah. - So they were both born in Nigeria. So they're authentic roots are there. But tell me about the rest of your childhood. I only had one Nigerian parent. I hear you had two. - Right, okay. - Yeah, I had both my mum and dad growing up, but my dad was actually deported. So he got deported when I was probably like six years old and actually remember the experience of his deportation as being something very traumatic. In hindsight, as an adult, I recognize that. But growing up, you know, with an African mum, African dad, our culture was just a part of us on an everyday basis. But also I was from South London as well. So I kind of grew up in Battersea and I came from a very diverse school, but I always went back to like a very African home. And yeah, I think it really shaped me to who I am today. - In what ways? - I think it's that kind of, I'm gonna say aggression. There's something about Nigerians out of all other people from say the diaspora that I think means that we're quite aggressive and very passionate. Let's not say aggressive. Let's say passionate. We're intense. We know what we want. And there's also a huge sense of like pride as well that we can do anything and we're good. And I feel very privileged that I had a lot of that, you're great, you'll do well, you'll be successful. Don't worry about what's going on. Don't see reality as a definition of a limitation for yourself. And I think that that's really made me do a lot of things that supposedly I shouldn't be able to do, but that kind of upbringing may be like, "No, I can do it. "It's fine. "It was always fine. "I watched my mum do a lot of things "that would be considered impossible for her "and she just did it with ease and chaos in my opinion now. "But somehow she kind of achieved those things. "And I would feel very privileged to kind of grow up "with that sense of confidence instilled in me, "which I think is really cultural as a Nigerian." - And I bet she didn't complain either. - Oh, there was no complaining. She did, she just got on with it. Like even when my dad was deported, she just got on with it. And there were times that growing up, my mum used to work on the trains. So she was one of the train cleaners and my sister's three and I'm five. She would go out at night and leave us because there was no one to look after her kids. She'd go out, she'll clean, she'll clean offices. She'll take us to offices to clean the offices when we were younger. And she just did it and we'll go to school and she would say, like, "Just don't tell anyone that you're working "at five o'clock in the morning." She, obviously, you're not gonna go to school and tell people, "Oh, I've just been at Fox News "like cleaning and helping my mum out." You just go to school in the morning and that like everything was normal. But no, there wasn't any complaining and she just kind of got on with it. - And do you think, you know, you referred to that as being, that gave you kind of confidence that you could do anything. But for me, it sounds a lot like, because that immigrant story is so connected with like survival. And that's why I talked about like, she didn't complain because it's like, a lot of complaint comes from privilege almost, doesn't it? When you feel like you have a choice. - Yeah, but what's really also really interesting is that some people still feel lucky. The fact that she wasn't deported, when my dad was deported, she probably felt, "Oh my God, I'm so lucky. "I got to kind of stay here." And why would you complain when you feel like you're in a better position for yourself and your children in the long term? So yeah, she didn't have the privilege of wanting to complain. So I think she was really like happy to still be here. Though she had to work hard, I think she knew that she had a lot of opportunity while being here and she retrained and she became a nurse and then she bought properties and then she retired in her 40s. Like, I love England in that. It's kind of like the land of opportunity for those who really wanna like, you know, work out what to do and use it. So I think she could see that that was possible for her. - And you talked about that day when you were six years old when there's a knock on the door at nighttime, at nighttime? - It might have been at night. It might have been in the middle of the day, to be honest. What I do remember is like literally about four Burleigh police officers, officers kind of walking in, shouting, like screaming, like, and there's me as a five-year-old. My sister is a three-year-old. My mom in tears and then literally dragging my dad out of the house and it was like, your dad's gone. Like at that one moment and we didn't see him again for seven years afterwards. So it was like, at the time, I never processed it. It's only in the last year or two, I've processed how kind of maybe traumatic that kind of experience would have been for me as a child. And I think it's also made me really be fearful of loss, which is why I work so hard. So that things like that don't happen, hopefully to me and my family in the future. - So in the last couple of years, you've had time to reflect on that. And I guess you're saying, did you choose to reflect on that or go through the journey of reflecting on that? Because you could see things in your behavior that you thought maybe that's connected. - I didn't even recognize it. I knew that there was, like, I work really hard. Like I'm really intense and I'm always like, let's just keep going. I'm always like that. And until I literally, you know, started to have therapy, I was like, where does that come from? And it was that then got uncovered in my therapy sessions that actually, maybe one of the triggers for me, like working hard was because of that, maybe fear of loss. And obviously there's other aspects as well. I just like castle in, that's fun. But there was also maybe this thing here that was one of my drivers that I've actually used in a positive way, but it's also important to kind of reflect on like dealing with things like that. And I think that I came from a place of, that happened, that just happened. It's fine. Onto the next, whereas like when you sit down and talk about it, you're like, oh, that's not great. - Right, five years old as well. - That's not a great situation. - Yeah, it must have taught you something about something even if that lesson was wrong. That's the way I think about it. I'm like, that must have taught you something about the nature of life. 'Cause at five years old, you're learning what the world means and what this means and that power in your dad and your mom. It must have taught you some lesson about something even if that lesson was wrong, right? - Yeah, exactly. I mean, I didn't even realize that it could have been teaching me something like no idea, but maybe that stuff happened, that's life. You're not really in control of anything, but things like that can't stop you. - Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think if my parents were snatched out of my house, I definitely wouldn't feel safe. - Yeah, oh. - It wouldn't feel safe, you know, because that's parents represent the foundation of safety in, you know, this is my house and these are my parents and they just are. - Yeah. - And then one of those things is snatched out. It makes you, I guess, insecure about ever feeling too safe to just wanna go. - Yeah, but I think for me, maybe mine was that I can't rely on the system or other people to secure my safety, maybe. And so I kind of am always trying to make sure I secure myself with the actions that I take, 'cause those are the only things I'm in control of. So I'm very much like, I'll do it myself, I'll sweat out myself, oh, don't worry, because you never know what's gonna happen there. And I like that as a person. - Does that make you paranoid about, I guess, everything? Oh, professionally? - No, it makes me really objective. Like I'm a pure realist, like, something that's probably gonna go wrong at some point in time, and that's fine. How are you gonna handle that? Like, it's almost like I prepare for something to go wrong in a way. This is like a therapy session. - No, I mean, this is pretty much what this podcast is. - Okay, great. - Yeah. - Well, no, I just find, I think when I started this podcast, I was anticipating to find these wild differences between everybody, but in fact, I found the opposite, which is that fundamentally, we're all very, very similar. - Right. - When it relates to things like insecurity and safety and childhood, and then obviously, because in many respects, you've gone on to create a career for yourself that is so different from so many, it would, sometimes you think, well, what was the initial catalyst that caused that person to be different? What was the like, the environment, it's almost like a cauldron. What was the furnace they were like scolded in to make them then more hardworking or obsessive or whatever? And yeah, I guess, I mean, having an Nigerian mother, I already know what that part is like. - You could call it a cauldron. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Definitely. - That work ethic piece as well, which is quite absent in this culture. And that, you know, what we talked about complaining, you refer to this as the land of opportunity. - Yeah. - How does that make you feel when you see people who have lots of, are much more, let's say financially privileged start to life, and they don't fully understand the land of opportunity. - So my first thought is like I roll, like, oh, there you go, moaning or complaining. But I also realized that there's so many different types of privileges that people have that can actually provide them like a long-term foundation. I think that if you do, some people are financial privilege, but they have no love, they have no hope, they have no one to tell them that they're good. Whereas I mean, I've had the financial privileges, but I had a mum who was so loving and so caring and so encouraging that I was in a better position just because I had that. So I don't wanna ever tell someone that you're privileged because of XYZ, maybe in other areas, they didn't have the support that they needed to actually spur them on to be the best version of themselves. So I try not to be that judgmental anymore because there's so many different categorizations of privilege. - And at some point, you said your mum, she retrained herself, she became a nurse, which is amazing. - Yeah. - And off you went to university. - I did, yeah, I went off to university. - Mm-hmm, we have a similarity again. - Oh really? Oh my gosh, I love that, yeah. - I lost in one lecture, but I was there for all three years, but I just was jothed out. - Okay, great. And we have that in common. 'Cause I was barely there. But I had a great social life. - So amazing. - I was enjoying. - That's just as great. - Yeah, no, I went to university after leaving home and I was so ready to get out of my house and get out of London and try something new and then find myself in a new city. I actually went in to do fashion marketing and to my parents, despair, because again, as an African, you don't do fashion. That's not a real course. You do accounting, you do law, you do business. You don't do fashion marketing. But I think I've always had this kind of more creative or creative streak, as well as rebellious streak as well. Like I'm gonna do what I wanna do. But funny, I kind of went there to do fashion, but changed my course to accounting and finance because I realized that there was no financial hope in fashion as like, oh, I'm not gonna be broke when I leave university, hell no. So I changed. - Purely on that basis, that you-- - Purely on that basis. I didn't love my course. And then when they were doing internship opportunities, they were paying interns 8K a year, 10K a year, and like graduate start in salaries, we're like 8K hours, like, I'm not rich enough to do this, no way. And then I found out about accounting and finance and they were like, the banks that had really good opportunities. And I was really good at the accounting 'cause we had a module in the fashion marketing and I smashed it and I was like, I'll do accounting and finance. - Wow. You said at this point that your parents, typical Nigerian parents, my one was the same. When I actually dropped out, it's when I got help. 'Cause that's even worse. Yeah. Rather you're doing something at university. I feel like part of it's just just so she can tell her friends or something. It's like, do you know what I mean? It's just like, I'm going to university so that you get a degree as being a good mother. - Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's a fact. My child is at university. It is what they tell all the auntys. Like it's very important. - Yeah, and at that point, your dad was, he was back in your life? - Yes. So by the time I was about 12, he came back. So fundamentally, they, they defined his deportation as an illegal deportation. But I remember going to the court cases and my mom pleading with social services and lawyers and just people help us help us get our dad back. Like, how do we do this? And then we went to the court case and she was like, I don't know why this man was deported. Like, gaveled down, bring him back. And I was like, that took seven years for you guys to do that. But he got back and like, he just started again, worked as a security guard, did all of that kind of stuff and then ended up working in the home office for immigration, which is so random because he was deported. - You pissed off about that. The fact that you lost your dad for seven years. For what sounds like it was a bit of a mistake or just negligence. Well, at least a lack of empathy to take a dad from their kids for what? - Oh yeah, oh, I'm not pissed off. Maybe I haven't processed it enough to be pissed off. It just felt like it is what it is and this is how it went. I felt more upset for my mom in that I know how difficult it was for her to have us and have responsibilities and deal with managing this court case. She managed it her entire self. She represented herself 'cause she didn't have money for lawyers and stuff. So she was under a lot of stress, but she did it and she did other stuff as well. So that was really the main thing that kind of upset me I'd say. - When did your dad come back to do you have a relationship with him? - It was weird. It was so weird. It was like, this is my dad. How do we have a relationship with the man we haven't seen for seven years? But he was the kind of what stoic African dad. So I remember he always gave me an envelope with money at the beginning of term. Like, well done, look after yourself. Okay, how's the weather? Are you reading your books? Yes, dad, yes, dad. Okay, good. Like it was that kind of relationship, but I knew it was still caring. It was the way he kind of communicated his care for me, which is that envelope of cash. - And it's probably like a Nigerian generational cycle of like male figures. - Yeah. - Just being a bit, you know. - Bit standoffish, but caring. And when they ask you certain questions, whether it's about the weather or your studies, how are your studies going? Like, that's just, they don't really know what else to ask you. But them asking you that is powerful. And my dad calls me every day. And he says, hi, how are you? Find dad, how are the kids? Find dad. Okay, bye. - Yeah. - Like, just, is that checking in? Which is really, I like it. - I think that's probably also just a male issue. I think men are typically on as emotionally open. So they don't build that. You know, 'cause vulnerability, well, connection seems to be built on vulnerability and they seem to have a bit of a guard up. My dad is definitely exactly the same. Like, the questions are so like, you know, just sort of just level. Yes. Are you okay? Good bye. - Yeah, yeah. - Let me know if you're not, okay. - Yeah, exactly. Yeah. - So, MMU, you go there, you feel a bit out of place? - Yeah, quite out of place. - What do you mean by that?

Feeling out of place (18:53)

- 'Cause I'd never left like London and I'd like, I had to make new friends and I didn't know anyone and I wasn't really good at it. And I couldn't really find my tribe very early on. And I was on a campus really far away. I was on the Didsby campus. - Oh yeah. - Like that was out of town. - Yeah, out of town, right? And then there was like the main campus from Manchester University that everyone was at. - That's where I was. - Yeah, I wasn't there, right? Yeah, yeah. - I was a party company for. - It was great. And I'm in Didsby, or I was like, come on. And I actually ended up like moving out of my halls of residence. - And really? - And crashing with a number of goals in that main campus. And I would move from room to room. So once one friend got annoyed with me after two weeks, another friend was saved with them for two weeks. And then I'd just go back and forth like a nomad for a bit. - And you changed course to accounting. In hindsight, how important was it? How pivotal was it for you to have an understanding of finance for everything that would then come in your career? Because I feel like finance is such a neglected topic for kids. I wish someone had told me about fucking credit scores for a smash mine. - Okay, so the moving role was pivotal for my life. Like it set me up on a completely different trajectory that I wouldn't have even been aware of because off the back of that role, I worked at, you know, all the top four companies in the world in finance. I worked at Merrill Lynch and Deloitte Consulting, banks, all of that stuff. I would have never done that if I'd stayed in fashion. When it came to from a personal finance perspective, didn't prepare me at all. - Really? - Not a clue. I owed the tax and I money. I got my taxes wrong. I had to pay fines. I had no clue what I was actually doing. I had the degree, I had the T1, great, you've passed. How do you actually apply financial knowledge to running your own business, to your everyday personal taxes? Like I don't have a clue. Spent the money, bought bags, made extra money on the side, spent it all, I owe the tax man and I wasn't prepared. - Fucking hell. Well, I mean, that's a great advert for Manchester much, full of university. - Maybe it was just me. I was just like young and dumb, but it helped me from a career perspective, but a lot of the financial courses out there don't help people be better themselves of money. - And that psychology point, 'cause money's such an emotional thing, especially as like an immigrant. - Yeah, oh yeah, exactly. Yeah. - And you grew up in a council estate, right? Growing up in a council estate, getting money, dangerous concoction for getting a land beginning or fucking up with some Chanel bag or some shit. - Exactly. But like I grew up on a council estate and then my mum bought her council house, rights for 17 grand, sold that house for 250 grand, used that money to buy it, to build a property empire. And that's how she ended up retiring. So when I was in Manchester, I was actually, my mum bought like four houses in Manchester. So I was doing property management while being a student. So I was still like running businessy stuff, like as a student. So even though I had that came from the council background, I'd seen kind of like how hustle and money could kind of be made and that I didn't have to be broke forever if I was kind of smart about it. - Your mum sounds like, all right, beast. She's wild. - She bought four houses while you're in Manchester. - Yeah, no, how many, no, three. - Just well. - Yeah. - They were different. - Yeah, but they were, oh no, I can't swear. - I can't swear. - Can I swear? - Question can swear. - I was really, okay. Well, that's still, I mean, you know, she was just in it for the flip. - Yeah, exactly. - Yeah. So you start at some point blogging while at university. And why did you turn to blogging? Why was that a compelling path? - Blogging of blogging. I kind of went into it because I kind of had like a friendship fall out and I became a bit of a loner. Like I didn't have a big social group. Like people would go out without me and I would live with a group of girls and they'd all go out together and I'd be like left at home by myself. So I found like online communities. So I was part of different forums. Before Reddit was Reddit, before YouTube existed, there were like forums where girls would talk to each other about beauty and makeup. And I'd spend hours like writing to these girls across the world and sending them pictures. And they used to, before Instagram, there was Fort Key, there was all these platforms where we were communicating. And then some of the girls would send videos to each other of like their new hair and their new makeup. Like so random. And then YouTube had just launched. It was like, this is a great way to send videos to each other. And so I kind of got sucked up in community, meaning communicating with all the people that I met online because my real life wasn't that great. - And I guess when you started in YouTube, you never thought it was anything more than a... - It wasn't a thing. At the time of me like watching YouTube and kind of creating on the platform, there wasn't actually that many people on there. And so like little artists could go viral and there'd be like, there was a song, "Chocolate Rain". I don't know if you guys are at the back. - I don't know what I remember. The black guy with the hand frames. - Yeah, like the... - Yeah, that was like mind-blowingly amazing. And then there was Michelle Phan. She was like the main beauty girl. That was really like killing it. So it was such a small little ecosystem that wasn't a business, but it was genuinely about like connecting and talking to other people online. - Why did you do so well in hindsight on YouTube? - Honestly, length of time. Like I was just doing it for a really long time. And I was very transparent. Like I was so transparent. I was putting a lot of information out there. I wasn't that strategic with it, but I loved talking to people online. Like they were literally my friends. And I used it a bit like an online diary in a way very earlier on, but it wasn't like a full-time thing. I was like interning and what working. But I think eventually I got really strategic about it. And that's when I saw like more growth or huge growth. - You were saying that, you know, you first started like the online forums and stuff at a time when you'd like fallen out of your flatmates. And I guess from what it sounds like YouTube was giving you that sense of like community, I guess, and that you weren't getting in the real world. - Fact, yes, definitely. I didn't have like a huge social life after a while after the fallout. And I had so much solace with just this online community. I never felt lonely because I could log in and there'd be someone on there. And I could read all the forum updates and talk to the girls who were into the things that I was into. They were all over the world. It was just really nice to like have friends. - You referred to the fallout as if it was a really pivotal moment in your life. - It wasn't that pivotal, but it's quite hard when you're at uni and like your friends are off doing stuff and like meeting people and then you don't have anything to do or they're not talking to you. It feels like a big thing in real life. It's really not a big thing. Like by the time it was like, I'm so lonely. I'll go online. - Okay. Well, wow, good thing you did. What a journey. And you say consistency, you point at consistency as being the real factor to your success, but consistency must come from, you know, enjoying it.

Turning your hobby into a job (26:33)

'Cause there'll be a lot of people listening to this thinking I wanna be a YouTuber. I mean, everybody seems to wanna be a YouTuber. - Yeah, yeah. - But the insanity to do it as long as you did without the guarantee of money, must have come from somewhere. - There was no guarantee of money. It was a hobby. Like if you're a painter, you like painting at the weekend, you're gonna paint anyway, whether someone pays you for your art or not, you just enjoy doing it. So I just enjoyed making videos that other girls watch and I could talk to the other girls. So I didn't get paid for like four years, but I was always uploading every weekend. It was my hobby. Like it wasn't, this is gonna be my new job, which is why I even struggle with it now. And that I really wanna enjoy it in the same way that I always enjoyed it. And do I need to look for a new hobby? And it's now YouTube, my job. Like, oh, I find it really hard to kind of balance the fact that this thing that was my escape is kind of like my job now. - I was talking to one of the guests on the podcast a couple of weeks ago about this study where when someone gets paid to do a task, they used to love doing, they lose motivation for it. And it's just mental. They do the study where they give people this game, people enjoy doing the game. They then say, we're gonna ask you, should you do the game again? But this time you're gonna get paid. The other group don't get paid. And the group that got paid to do the thing they just enjoyed doing, lose motivation. Doesn't it make a lot of sense? - YouTube stopped paying me. - Oh yeah. - No, I like those checks. That is insane. - You lose internal motivation when it becomes, when some of the reason for doing it becomes extrinsic, monetary. - So, and this is a, you know, it's a wise. - Oh my gosh. - It's tough, isn't it? - It's really tough because-- - People like, oh my God, like what privilege conversation? - But it's not, 'cause like say imagine someone's like, a darts player or something, right? But eventually once they get into the competitive sports of darts, maybe it becomes a bit more stressful. Maybe they don't enjoy it as much. Maybe the challenge of doing it is now, I've got to perform for my management and the crew or whatever, there's a dark crew. I just made that up. But that becomes like, I don't know, more pressure than the person who just wanted to play darts on the Saturday night would feel. - Can you feel that? - No, no. The reason being is that I try to frame what I do as I've accepted that I have a huge desire to create stuff. That's it. As long as I focus on this process is creation, this process is creation, I'll be fine. And that might mean saying no to work and no to sponsorships for a season. So I can at least feel that creation, 'cause I'm very much like, how do I feel about this? Which is kind of bad, but also it's allowed me to do what I'm doing. - Feels like a good long-term strategy. - Yeah. - Right, 'cause if you're not asking that question in the short term, how do I feel about this? So many people, in fact, I think the guests that just sat in that chair last, you end up gradually becoming someone you never intended to be in ending up somewhere you never intended to go. So that constant asking of that question, how do I feel about this today? Which, as you alluded to, means turning down money sometimes. But thinking longer term about what you're doing and why you're doing it, I think is so critical. So critically important. You know, the thing that had the biggest positive impact on me sticking to the gym has been this change in mindset. And I've talked about this extensively on this podcast about how I used to view my goals in the gym as being super superficial and attached to a season, to summer, looking good for summer. And that the shift came in me when I started asking myself this question and I started viewing life as one season. So I'd say to myself, if life is to be one season, then what can I do sustainably over the next 50 years? What are the healthy habits that I could maintain? And that moves you from a place of intensity to consistency. And one of the things that has really helped me get in great shape is the ready to drink fuels in the bottles. As you'll know, I've had them for three to four years. I've had two today alone, but also fuels brand new protein product. I've completely finished the salted caramel one and I'm now starting my journey with the banana milkshake. And it just tastes amazing. And the crazy thing is it's 105 calories. Some people historically, you know, when we think about protein shakes, we look at the calorie number when we see 300 calories, it's 105 calories, you get all of your vitamins and minerals and it's 20 grams of protein. For me, this might be the best product that you will have ever created. And in terms of the results, well, they speak for themselves. You know, we've got two guests that have come to watch this podcast today and Sophia.

How did you find the confidence to shift careers (31:24)

I said, Sophia, you know, she's followed you for some time. I said, Sophia, if you could ask Patricia, any question, what would it be? She said to me, how did she find the confidence to make the leap from that sort of corporate career to going full time with this thing called YouTube? - So for me, my confidence came from an Excel spreadsheet. So I am not a risk taker. I'm more of a steady and stable person, but I did a bit of maths. I did a bit of a projection. I looked at what my long-term potential earnings and lifestyle would look like if I stayed in the banking industry. And then I looked at what my numbers were looking like. You know, if I stayed as a creator, where could I take it? And even at that time, I had no clue I could get to where I am today, but the numbers looked healthy enough. So I was like, okay, I'll take the leap. Even if I do it for two years, it could be okay. And I didn't just jump out. I kind of took a toad it in and I quit my job, but then I took another job that was part-time. So I could make content and have a job as well. - And you call your mum and you say, "Quit my job." - I didn't tell her. I didn't tell my mum. I didn't tell anybody what. You've quit your big banking job. Oh, hell no. I could never do that. So I knew my parents would be worried and scared. - Should we tell them no? - No. No, no. So mum, I left my job. They barely know what I do right now. They're like, I do this thing on the internet. And they go, "Oh, well done." It's fine. - Yeah, yeah. So my mum. But yeah, so you made that, you took that leap into YouTube. It was a moment where you think, "Oh, fucking hell, this is moving. This is..." Or was it just one step at a time? - Slow and steady. - Yeah. - Slow and steady. I was making content for seven years and then I got to a million subscribers. So I didn't have any of those really viral moments and I saw lots of people kind of steamroll ahead of me, like go viral. They were part of these groups and these crews and there was a time that there was a thing called the Brit Pack. They were all there. And I was just like in the corner by myself, like prodding along and then inevitably, like my time came and it took again that seven years to one million and then one more year to another million and a half. And I then had my own viral moments off the back of myself. And, but I never kind of took the step back to be like, "Oh, you've made it." 'Cause I never feel like I've made it. - Not even now. - Not yet. - A lot of people might be surprised by that. - Mm, maybe. But it depends on someone's personal definition of making it, right? - And what's yours? - Well, domination. - What is mine? It's not just being popular on social media. That's not my complete definition of success, right? I think for me, it's like creating things that I want to create when I want to create them and monetizing them and bringing value. So if I save my overall thing, that's it. What that looks like, I don't know just yet. - And you don't think you're there yet? You don't think you're creating things that you really-- - Oh, I'm doing it. I'm doing it, but I don't think I've had like one big thing yet. Does anyone have one big thing, though? - I don't know. I think that, you know, I think if you'd gone back and asked Patricia when she was at MMU, what her making it look like, you would have said, you know, 100,000 followers. On my, do you know what I mean? Say there's-- - Free clothes. Free food. - Yeah. - Exactly, yeah. So maybe the goal post is just moving off into the future. And maybe that speaks to what life is. It's just that journey as opposed to that destination, right? So-- - Yeah, yeah.

Being an influencer (35:29)

- And influences, being an influencer. - Mm-hmm. - Talk to me about that. When I say it, you know, what do you think about the lifestyle, the stigmos, et cetera, et cetera? - So when people say influence, I think there's a little cringe when they say it. But I think this concept of being influential is, has always been around, but it's always been around with the hands of the upper echelon of people. Only certain people are picked by certain industries to be influential. But what I love is like, now there's this democratization. People can choose who they want to be influenced by. And how I got in my position is because people like me. They decided that actually, I wanna hear what Patricia has to say. I wanna see what she's buying. I wanna see what she likes. So I think it's a really powerful tool. We've all been influenced. The question is like, we wanna choose who those influencers are, I think. - It's a big, I guess, responsibility to some, because I know for a fact that every time something happens in the world, you get a DM. Patricia, I thought you were with us. Why aren't you doing 55 Instagram posts about Palestine or Kenya or India or oxygen in the fires in Australia? I thought you were one of, it's a lot. - It's a lot, it's a lot. Bearing in mind that my forte is makeup and clothing and maybe financed to an extent, I feel there is pressure for influencers to speak up on every topic all the time. But we are not credible sources who know everything. We just don't. And I think it's really important for us to say, we're ignorant on a matter and we're learning. But kind of speaking up on stuff that you know nothing about is very, very-- - It's stupid. - Dangerous, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - And stupid. - Yeah. - And also what is really scary is that if you don't think the same way that everybody else thinks, you're in trouble. - Yeah. - What if you have an alternative perspective, you're not allowed to have an alternative perspective. If you are sort of peace, whether or not it's in the Middle East specifically or on a certain matter, oh, no way.

Being a woman on social media (37:41)

Because the world wants to keep everything burning. But like personally, I'm like, can this just chill? Like not that situation specifically, but a lot of situations, I'm like, I just wish it wasn't happening. - Is that your approach to it? You think generally if I don't have a proper, well-rounded view, 'cause it's all well people, 'cause I get the same, 'cause I know you'd get the same. People message me and say, Steve, speak on this issue or Black Lives Matter or whatever, while I'm still processing it. And what you're right, what they're actually saying is, share my opinion to your followers on this issue. And they try and guilt trip me into it. Like, especially when it's a group of people that I can relate to just viscerally, so like my skin color. - Yeah, yeah. - I'm expected to be a, you know, the spokesman of all Black people. - Yeah, oh me too as well. - Yeah, yeah. - So a lot of, yeah, a lot of nastiness. What else do you think is unappreciated about being an influencer? You've obviously got a big platform. The other thing I was gonna say, right? And this was what I was just thinking as we're talking. The other day, I thought, and I've been working out for a year and a half now, I always like talking about this. - Love it. - Or single. And Grace, who sat behind that curtain over there, I sent her a photo and I was like, I'm gonna post like a transformation picture. - Okay. - Of like the before and after. And me and Grace had a conversation because if I was a female and I posted that, I would have got fucking ripped to pieces. - Right, yeah. - I would have been told I was toxic, irresponsible, body image, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. I posted it, fine. 100% of people like send us your plan, like whatever. - Yeah, yeah. - And it really made me reflect on how tough it is to be a woman on social media with a big audience. It's like the standard of perfection in terms of your like morals, what you're posting, how you're posting at what you're saying is a high bar to reach. Whereas I'm not held to that standard as a guy. - Okay, yeah, yeah. I'm not surprised, but there's gonna be different standards you're held by. So with the women, like ours, there's a lot of pressure around our appearance, or if we're mothers, how we mother, or what we're wearing. I mean, it's so random, but I'm sure there's definitely things that men are gonna expect from you that I can't believe you did this or something. - Even with a little excess, it's like, I can come on, I could come on this podcast and say that the reason I'm successful is because of me. And I can talk about my big old ambitions and when a woman does it, it's like, you know what I mean? It just seems like there's just a double, a total double standard. The fact that I can post me being kind of slightly overweight in that shape, and then like 19 pack. Like, do you know what I mean? I saw in many videos, you said seven abs or whatever, like seven abs or whatever. And the comments are like, woo! But I know if a woman did the same thing, it would be like, this is irresponsible. What are you saying? Fetching, da da da da da. - Oh, why is that? - I mean, not a thing. - Because men and women are fundamentally different. So I'm presuming that your audience is like, probably say 60% to 70% male. - 80% women. - 80% women? - Oh, fuck out. - On my Instagram in particular. - Wow. - I think women judge men by different standards. So what you'll see, oh, let's talk about this. What you'll actually see in the world of beauty and women's fashion and industries that are predominantly consumed by women, men are always at the forefront. So the biggest influences in the beauty industry are five men, men who wear makeup, right? - She loves that too. - Men who wear makeup are more popular than, or let's say three, men who wear makeup can be bigger and get to bigger stratospheres than any women could. The fashion industry and fashion brands, all of them, the majority of them are owned by men and ran by men or creative directors are men, not women. There aren't a lot of brands that are run and owned by women. And I just think this is something to do with biology, sociology, the way in which women interact with men is different to how we interact with each other. I wish it was different, but I've just noticed this a lot. - And the other point, which I kind of alluded to there as well is on this topic of gender disparities, I guess, it's like discrediting success. - Yeah. - Do people discredit your success? - Do you know what? Not so much. And I think also because I'm a black woman, people are so happy to see me do well because they feel like it's rare. And so I think I'm afforded a bit more luxury to be a bit more aggressive about, I'm pushing, I'm moving hard, whether you like it or not. That's the Nigerian in me coming out. And culturally, I think I'm allowed to celebrate that a lot more, 'cause Brits, I don't think, like to celebrate people doing too well, or being too much. So I can get away with it a little bit more. But I know like there is a little, there can be tension when I talk about my numbers too much. And I'll definitely get the messages of, this is not what you should be talking about. You shouldn't talk about how much you earn. It's a bit rude. - Imagine a guy doing it though. - Oh. - Oh. - Go on. - Show us the Lamborghini again. - Yeah. - Do you know what I mean? It's like, that's all guys do. - Yeah, that's how they build their statuses. Like, I mean, just that's how it works. - Have you put your Lamborghini on? - No, no, I don't have a Lamborghini on. But no, but I can openly talk about how much money I've generated in my companies. And no one's ever gonna say, oh, that's so just tasteful, they clap. And when women do it, they people do go, oh, God, she's not, that's not a good taste, is it? - Yeah. - And that again is a huge, like Ben Francis, he talks about, he's built at one point, something billions on a company. Everyone's like, amazing. You know, they can show, men can show the nice things, cars, the houses, whatever. And it's all, but the minute Grace Beverly does a house tour. - You can't do it, yeah. I have a video called like, how I made a million on YouTube, right? And it's, first it's got like over almost a million views on it. And, but the comments were so kind of crazy. People are like, I can't believe you're sharing this. We're really excited, but also like, you should be putting this out there. And what I actually did is there's no way I could actually share my actual numbers. Cause I think people would judge me negatively and like fall over be like, what the hell? How is it possible? And like, almost wanna stop the bag, if that makes any sense. Like they don't, people don't like to see women doing two big numbers. You gotta still be humble as a woman. - How do you respond to that though? How do you, how does that impact the choices you make and does it impact the choices you make? Isn't that sad though, that you? - It really does. So I've moved away from like putting out my numbers. I'm not gonna use using my numbers as a strategy or showing my things too much as a strategy. I also bought a couple of properties and, you know, I really want to share with people about financial empowerment and properties and making money, but like, I can see that almost like a sour taste sometimes in people's mouths. So I show a bit less of it. I'm not gonna show you the new house that I bought or something else. I'm not gonna show it as much and I've tried to make more relatable content. A lot of us have to be relatable and remain humble to still be considered a good influencer. Just don't show what you have. - Are you happy with that though? Are you happy to go along with that and to do what, 'cause when we spoke earlier about what your goal is, it's to make stuff that like really matters to you. And that sounds like it's driven by like, my terms, you know, what I care about in my way and not allowing the audience to dictate what you create. That sounded like your North Star. And this being a good influence but it doesn't sound like it's gonna make you very happy. - Yeah, I think it's all about being a strategic though, right? So like, if eventually showing lots of glamorous stuff is gonna impact growth, it would be silly for me to keep doing it, right? And again, that's not my personal strategy anyway. I'll be honest with you, I don't wanna be like, look at my new Lamborghini, look at my new house. That's not who I am as a person. But it's a bit cringe for me and it's not part of my strategy. But I do wanna remain authentic but I understand that showing too much of my success doesn't always sit well for people. And I'm happy to like remove that aspect if that makes people more comfortable. And I think that's because I'm a woman. Like I want people to feel comfortable. - And you know, you start this platform called The Break.

Finances - your new project (47:06)

- Yeah, that was it. - When I say that there's a big smile on your face. - Yeah, that's like my passion project turned like great potential business opportunity. And I think for me, that's like where I decided to start talking about these things. And we're just, we're talking about this now that people don't talk about money, women don't talk about money. On that platform, I am unapologetic and that's why I shared about the making a million in a year or making a million over a lifetime and showing how I budget my salary and showing you how I bought a house in 10 minutes. I put that all on there 'cause I feel like, you know over there's where I'm gonna talk about this stuff. So if you like it, is there. If you don't like it, let's go put a makeup on my other channel. And it's been just insane to see how it's grown and how much there's a huge demand for this type of content within this demographic. - It was what was missing when you started out from what you said earlier. - Exactly. And that's why I created it. - 'Cause you were buying all those bags and being a bit reckless and no one told you, so you. - Exactly. And the tax man came knocking at my door and I got fined and I was like, nobody needs to do this. This is how you incorporate. This is how you get your pension sorted out. This is how you can buy a property through a business. And I was just literally doing all the stuff that I kind of learned from my accountant and from the financial mistakes that I've made. I really wanted to just say, here you go. Here's this information, use this. Make it be valuable to you to help you in your journey. - Do you know in black culture, we growing up, you know, I was watching 50 Cent and all this stuff and he is a bad financial advisor. And I can't-- - She gets their advice on 50 Cent though. - Fucking every black young black man. - Oh, no, no, no. - And what he told me about bottles and then beginnings and stuff, it really hurt me when I was 21 and I finally got money and I went to the club and I was going to five bottles of Don Perion please and I blew a lot of cash and I just wish those role models, like the rappers that I followed when I was younger, I wish they told me about credit scores. You know what I mean? - I wish, but that's not sexy, right? It's not glamorous, it's not fun. Like I have a video on pensions, like 401Ks and whether or not you should be making a contribution to your sick, right? That is not, oh, this is glamorous. No one wants to hear that, but there are gonna be a few who do take it and use it. I wish you could dress up like credit scores, like give it lipstick, give it another gini. But we haven't mastered that yet. Maybe I'll do that later. But they don't want people to know the truth. I don't think anybody wants people to really know the truth about finances. It's not beneficial, it's not beneficial to government, it's not beneficial to corporations, it's not beneficial to banks and lenders who actually want people to be inept in this area so they can make financial mistakes and then give them more money. That's the reality of it. Like rich people aren't actually struggling financially. It's actually everyone else on the maybe lower end of the spectrum who don't have this information, but this information will transform their lives. I guess that's why they call it financial freedom. There we go. Yeah. And you said this started as a passion project and now it's turned into a potential business opportunity. Exactly. Talk to me about that and where's it going? This is a lot. So where's it going? So we really wanna build out like a web platform which has content but also tools that people can use. So one of the things that I created was a simple budgeting like template and like literally in like two weeks we had like 20,000 people download an Excel spreadsheet on how to manage their day-to-day income. So clearly there's more that we can do here. We then launched a planner as well that just sold out in like a day or two and then we're launching more of these. So in the long run I'd like to provide more financial tools and resources that people could use to help them with managing their everyday finances. The dream is I can app but that takes time to like happen. But like we've got the designs and we're doing some testing now to really see how we can like build that out further. Of all the work you're doing across all of these different projects and I'm sure there's many, many more that we won't even talk about today is this the thing you're most excited about? And it's like choosing your favorite child but... I would say it's something I'm really excited about because it's so valuable. So I'm very excited about it and I think it's a new challenge. So as an influencer like I work for brands, I make amazing content for them, so I get nice things but now this is my chance to kind of be a brand and create value more so. So it's really like a new challenge for me that I'm excited to kind of get into. - And when you were saying we, you know we've made an Excel document, who's we? - So actually Excel document I made. But I do have like my husband who's been really supportive and like helping me build that out and then I've like recruited a COO to like help me think about scaling this out but I've had other team members here and there, freelancers here and there, but I know inevitably that scaling is something I'm gonna have to be willing to do and that's hard for myself to do. Yeah.

Whats it like working with your husband? (52:30)

- Your husband? - My husband, Michael. - Michael, can I call him Mike? - You can call him Mike. I can see him over there in the corner of the room. - Follow me around. - Is it like working with Mike? - So, well that's a really good question. So working with Mike. - You know what, Michael's been like with me for every step of my journey as a creator and he's always worked a full time job and then he inevitably went even to more of a freelance role so that I could use him when I needed him. So he will work as a contractor and I'm like, Mike, I need your help. Quit your job, come and help me. And so throughout my entire journey, he's been there to do that. However, working with your significant other can be real difficult. And there are times where we're like, let's not do this, go back to your job, make something happen, go back contracting. And then when we're like, oh, we're cool, come back again. So it's what's important for us is actually to establish how we communicate with each other and boundaries. Like when we're working together, we actually don't work in the same environment. So he'll work in an office and I'll work somewhere else 'cause if you work in the same room at the same time, it's not pretty. - We're gonna send a microphone over to Mike in the audience to get his take on it. It's not pretty. - Yeah, because I think when you're in like boss mode, like you can be quite direct. Like I'm very like, this doesn't look good. I don't like this. Can we change this? How do we do this better? This is wrong, right? And I think there are, when it's with your partner, they're gonna take that personally over, say someone else who is just working with you. And I haven't developed my managerial skills to be great when it comes to my interpersonal skills just yet. So, and I think when you're working with a loved one as well, you feel like you wanna be more direct. Like they should know, just, you should know this, come on, but he doesn't always know and he can't read my mind and he's a man. So there's differences there. So that's when it gets a bit difficult when we're together. - And how do you balance like leaving work at work and not bringing that home with you? Because one thing I came to learn was that the Steve Bartlett that succeeds in the professional environment, that is direct, that is very clear and uncompromising. It's not the same Steve Bartlett that is required to compromise and oh, you wanna go for a walk in the park for no reason? - Yeah. - How do you be two different people in order to achieve two completely different objectives? And how do you do that also when you live and work in the house, right? The same house, 'cause that's something that we deal with. I think it's again about setting these boundaries, like physically. So Michael won't really work in the house, even if he's working on my projects and I try and work from an office as well, as much as possible. And then it's the case of like switching off. It's hard, man. It's really hard. I think as a creator, as a social media creator, like you're always on. I haven't mastered that yet, but we have kids. So the good thing about kids is that they force us to like give them love and give them attention. So we have to switch off and sort the kids out and give them a bath and give them dinner. So we'll always kind of, I don't know, switch brains because of that. - That's a really good point. I've never actually thought about the fact that kids would actually force some kind of balance into your life. - They do. - Which is, yeah. - Yes. - Amazing. And you guys have been together a long time. Yeah, we've been together for 14 years. - Yeah. - And married for like nine years, I think, yeah, nine years. - Yeah. - I always think 'cause of my own experiences of being pretty useless at relationships. - Mm-hmm. - Entrepreneurs and especially creators, I mean creators, that's a different bag 'cause as you say, you're always on. They're quite difficult to date. - Yes. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And I think as well, and I'm probably gonna get in shit, there's a chill thing that's, but I don't really care. I'm gonna die anyway. I think entrepreneurs from other cultures who have come up from another background and another mother can be even more tricky to date. - Yes. - You spoke to your mother, you used the word, we'll say passionate. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Does that really, can you relate? - Yeah, yeah, so obviously Michael's like, Englishman from Manchester, right? And like, we are very culturally, very different. And I think, but it's so interesting. I think if I was it with Michael, I'd be very single and very lonely. Like, I've accepted that. I don't know if anybody else would like actually handle me. If that makes any sense. I think it takes a certain kind of person to be with an entrepreneurial person, let alone an entrepreneurial Nigerian woman. Like, that's like so many different layers there. And yeah, he's like a magician to be able to handle that. And we're like polar opposite people. I'm very like emotional and like, let's do this now. And he's very logical, steady, stable. And I think that actually is the balance that I've needed. Like, and I think we're meant to be together to like, I don't know, just ying and yang. - That's great. - You said he followed you here today, but I heard you actually had a cyber stalker.

Your stalker (57:54)

- Oh, yeah. - It's not, it's not, it's not, it's not. - I found out it was actually his account. It's still for me. - Yeah, no, I did. I had a stalker for like three years. And it was someone who would like, just message me on all my platforms constantly, send emails, message family members, really weird. And nowadays I can't even remember like, what their, what their issue was. I feel they even had one. They were just obsessive me and obsessive, like my relationship to an extent. 'Cause I used to put vlogs out and I used to have like content with me and my husband. And I stopped like, actually, it sounds so bad, but I think it was enough to tell me I'm not gonna put myself out there in that way. - Why? - Hi. I think it takes an emotional toll, toll having a stalker. 'Cause you're worried, like when you log in, I'm gonna see their messages. What are they gonna do today? What are they gonna say today? Are they gonna docs me? So they found out my parents name and address and say, "Your mom's this name and she lives here." So like those things, and obviously it was like psychological warfare. But it was, yeah, it was more psychological. But like, when I was thinking about it, I kept thinking it's 'cause I put myself out there too much. This is why they're targeting me. And I think inevitably it made me wanna retreat in certain aspects. - Do you still think that was the case now? - I think that was one of my triggers, but I think inevitably I was like, putting yourself out there too much from a personal perspective wasn't something I wanted to do. Like I used to show, like I showed our wedding, I showed me giving birth. I showed, I put a lot out there, okay? - Link in the bio. - Link in the bio, my best story. And like the platforms love it when you put yourself out there a lot, but inevitably it does take a toll on you as a person. And I just said, we're gonna stop this. I don't wanna be that person. I actually came all about my real life, then put in a version of my real life online. - I tend to think when you're reaching that many people, just probabilistically, just by numbers, you're gonna reach at least 10 artists. - Yeah, okay. - Do you know what I mean? Regardless. - It just happens, yeah. - Yeah. - And you're blocking this person, I'm guessing every time they pop up and then they're making a new account. - They're making hundreds of accounts. They're messaging other people. So what would happen is that when I would message someone online, they would be in the thread or they'd be watching everything I was doing. So I'd have to tell people, I'm really sorry, I've got a stalker. Like if you got that message, it's from a stalker. They'd message brand sometimes. It was just really weird behavior. - And at some point it stopped. It vanished or? - Yeah, it reduced, it reduced, I'd say. And then it inevitably disappeared. I kind of forgot about it, to be honest, after a while. I learned how to listen to their speech pattern. So even if they would create new profiles, I always knew it was them based on the things that they would say and how they would say it. So they'd try to hide that it was them, but it's like, it's clearly you. Like, and there's even like online forums where people like moan about online creators. And she would like, she or he would go into the forums and be like talking about me. So I would stalk my stalker. So I knew it was them. And then other people in the forum would be like, your Patricia Stalker, like they would know it was the stalker. So yeah, anyway. - Wow, what a ride. That made you feel unsafe at any point. There was nothing where it was like, we know your home address, we're gonna come there. - There was some of that. - Oh really? - So there was some of, so I didn't meet and greet an event and then they message me, it's like, ha ha. I was like, you're meeting greet. You didn't even know who I was. You didn't see me. You looked so terrible in person. Next time I'm gonna do something, right? So I remember feeling so anxious and I would, I've logged it and I remember like looking through the footage and I was like, who could it be? Who could it be? It's like racking my brain. It's like, which one is it? Which one is it? And I think it made me a bit paranoid, like, for a season. But I was never scared, 'cause I'm from South London. - I'm not scared, come to my house. I mean, come through. We'll see. - I mean, you'll know, Jason. - I'm gonna prefer that, like, come to my house. Let's see. - Quick one. I talk about Fiverr.com a lot on this podcast, but I think the perfect sort of illustration of the power of Fiverr was actually illustrated a few weeks ago when Jack, who is the director and producer of this podcast, was away. And so we had to find someone to step in to edit the episode with Dr. Alex. And so we turned to Fiverr. And that whole episode, which you would have seen on YouTube, was edited by a young guy who we found on Fiverr. And for me, that's the perfect illustration of the diversity, the cost effectiveness, but also the sort of bandwidth that you can achieve on short notice by using Fiverr.com. And if you haven't used Fiverr, there's such a diverse array of services on the website, delivered by freelancers, everything from graphic design to building websites to getting subtitles done to podcast, anything, check it out, go to Fiverr.com. That's with two hours slash CEO.

Whats next for you? (01:03:16)

So what's next for you then in your life? As you look forward, I'm not talking about goals. I'm just saying the sort of macro, the overall feeling you want from your life and where you wanna be. I think it's being open to more challenges that are different to what I'm used to. I have been making content and creating by myself, for myself, for brands for so long, for like 10 years. And although I think I'm a brave person, I feel like I've got very comfortable. So I wanna set myself out on challenges that are completely outside of my comfort zone. Maybe do something that is unexpected for me. Unexpected for me as a creator. Influencers don't do this or influences of your size don't do this or this kind of thing. And I really wanna work on like creating more products and really building out a brand and not necessarily being the face of everything. Why, why not the face of everything? So I actually realized, though I'm in the public eye to an extent, like I don't really like being famous. I don't really wanna be a personality. I don't want things to be about me. And I don't know why I put myself out there if I didn't want that. But I think fundamentally, I'm happy to slink into the background. I don't want that. Yeah. I think there are other people who want it more. Like I don't enjoy being... Famous. I think not that I don't enjoy, but I think there are people who like really wanna be famous, right? And there are people who just wanna do what they do and do it well. And like not just have their own normal friends, do their own normal things and get on with life. Like I get on the train every day. And I go on the underground and some people like, you get on the underground. I'm like, yes, it's quicker. But I don't wanna ever be in a place where I can't get on the underground. - People are stopping you saying, "Hi, Patricia, can I have..." - Yeah. - Pitch and you're like, "No, COVID." - No, I always say. No, I was like, "Shh, girl, I'm always friendly." - I guess you can use that fame for things that you do care about there, right? Like... - I like that, you're right. - You know what I mean? It's like, double edged sword. It costs something, but it creates an opportunity for something in a way. - Oh, yeah, wow. You just, yeah, you just told me off there in a good way. - No, no, I don't. - No, I love that. - And I love what you just said that. You can use the fame for value. - Yeah. - I can, the battle I'm having at the moment, 'cause obviously, just on Dragon's Den. - Yeah, exactly. - And that's gonna be all over the TV and stuff, and people are gonna start coming up to me and pitching me their business side isn't the street, which I don't wanna fuck in. - Yeah. Well, I have an idea for you. - No, but you know what I mean? Like, you're gonna get, 'cause I went out with Peter Jones for like dinner, and he goes, "I'm just gonna pop to the toilet." - Yeah. - And it takes three steps, and a guy stops him, "Hi, Peter." I know you're here, pictures in the idea, the percentage asks, and I'm just looking at Peter thinking, "That's gonna be my fucking life." - Oh, God. - So what's the upside? Why am I doing this? Why have I put myself out there? And I think all the other upsides are that it's gonna allow me to build things that are more in line with all the things I care about. It gives you a platform and audience, won't you? - Yeah, no, another thing. You're right, you're right. And I'm battling with the fact that there's clearly a reason why I'm here, or why I've got this audience, and why people connect with me, right? And actually, maybe it's a good thing that I have no huge desires to be famous, so I'm gonna have to work out how to deal with that attention in a way better, and not just think about slinking into the background. - That's how you feel? Slinking into the background? - I wanna be low-key. Like, I wanna make my videos, and it sounds crazy, and no one really watched them. Like, I like the idea of when things are small, because I've been very viral. Like, so I was really, I was getting like eight million views of video, 13 million views of video, and at the time, I was like, "Ooh, this is quite, this is a lot for me," to like handle, 'cause people are like messaging me all the time, like, "Ferturiger, huh?" And I'd be like, "Hey guys, hey." So it's not that I wanna slink into the background. I think I just need to be more comfortable with recognizing that, you know, I'm here, and I'm doing it, but still keep that normality. That's really important for me.

Key To Success

The underlying principles that made you successful (01:07:36)

- And what have you learned over there, in terms, as it relates to it, if you were, 'cause I'm thinking now about, you've got an entrepreneur over there in the corner, Sophia, and she's starting a meal prep business. She's also working in the city in finance. - Okay. - So it's very coincidental that she happens to be here today. If you were speaking to someone like Sophia, and you were just giving her a bit of advice on how to become as successful in what you do, as you have been, what are those underlying principles where you say that really is the thing? There's no quick route, that thing there is the thing. - So I think the first thing is leaning into your, like authentic tone, like what is the thing that makes you or your brand yours, and not running away from that, and not trying to be something else? It's like learning to not be scared of yourself. This is what we are, this is who I am, this is it, right? And then consistently putting that out all the time so that people connect with that. They either connect or they don't, but you only want those who are gonna connect with that true version of yourself or your brand. And then it's, of course, you're gonna jump on trends or things that are viable so you can get traction. That's what I did. I would jump onto viral trends, but do it in my own tone or voice. And, you know, it's the consistency, continue. - I've never done this before, but I wouldn't ask Mike a question if I can. - You can ask Mike a question, he's famous. - Mike, I saw you on her Instagram, actually, with the baby father's day. I wanted to ask you from your perspective, why do you think Patricia has been so successful in what she's done? - Well, I reckon for a number of reasons. Partly, I think it's her personality. - Personally. - She doesn't have knowledge. So Patricia doesn't acknowledge a lot of good things about herself. She's definitely 100% her biggest critic. She brings a lot of energy and passion and enthusiasm and stuff like that. So when you watch her, you feel good, or you feel happy, or you feel interested or inspired. But something that she doesn't really acknowledge, but I think that's a part of it. I do think there's certain fundamental, like, I suppose, numerical things like consistency and sticking with it over time. And, you know, all those types of fit facts is that you can look at from a number's perspective that help. So definitely doing that and staying with it and doing, you know, three uploads a week and you have regular posts and all those sort of things that help. But there's a lot of people that do that and don't have the same level of success, right? So that's why you have to look at what's a differentiating factor is. So I think there's that, I think there's an element of her kind of openness and honesty and her also, because I think partly because she's done it a long time, she's very natural and authentic. So you don't feel like you're watching someone who's performing. You feel like you're watching someone who is genuinely, you know, giving who they are to you. And that's rare, right? So I asked Mike there what, you know, what his, he thought the causal factors behind your success, where he pointed at personality, you being vulnerable and you being authentic. And, yeah, I mean, that's kind of rare online with the world we live in, with perfection, filters and don't share the bad shit. Yeah. And I think I'm lucky in that I came up in an age of making content where it was so authentic, there was no business behind it and it was about connection. So I had that training, that was my training gown for being a creator, just to see what you do. Don't think about it, just do what you like. So I feel lucky that I've got that as like my basis as creating and being an influencer. - Well, I can certainly feel that. I think it comes through in everything you do, especially the stuff you're doing on the break. I've never watched videos about finance that seem to be so entertaining and real and weren't trying to be like snottie financial, like long word business bullshit advice. So it made it super like inclusive and real. And obviously that's what's absent in that space. - Exactly. - Is inclusion. That's why we both probably bought by the exhibition of thought. Don't say I'm not, I definitely shouldn't have bought. - Definitely. - So thank you so much for your time today. You're such an inspiration to so many. And much of the reason for that in my view is because you're such a real person. - Thank you. - And you're willing to share that realness with everybody. What you've done is remarkable and I'm sure this is just the beginning for you. You look about 23 as well. I was like, you literally look 23, but that's part of the upside, the ethnic background. Thank you so much for your time. It's such a no no. - Thank you for having me. It was great to come on and have a chat. - Thank you.