Russell Kane: How To Build Confidence & Stay Young | E79 | Transcription

Transcription for the video titled "Russell Kane: How To Build Confidence & Stay Young | E79".

1970-01-01T22:30:27.000Z

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Introduction

Intro (00:00)

Russell Kane. He's known as a multi-award winning comedian, presenter, actor, author and scriptwriter. But man, this guy is so much more. I started doing all this biohacking to survive on less sleep, to not lose your hair, or to slow down the ageing process. It fucked my life. In the proper sense, everything fell apart. Like a junkie. How can I get more of that? My relationship with my girlfriend fell apart. My bill started to not be paid. I started to look thin. It's the closest thing to a drug addiction I've ever experienced. Russell Kane. He's known as a multi-award winning comedian, presenter, actor, author and scriptwriter. But man, this guy is so much more. He's genuinely, deeply, intellectually curious. Something that honestly surprised me. And this sounds like it might be offensive or a weird thing to say. But I'm going to say it anyway. I didn't realise how smart this guy is. Remarkably self-aware. And, on top of it all off, brutally honest, he says that how it is. He has an ability to point out things that I think most of us muggles miss. And he's also genuinely just a really nice and hilarious human being. Today, you won't hear many jokes.


Self-Improvement And Personal Development

Your Dad (01:26)

This is the more serious side of Russell Kane. And aside of him that I did not know and would not have guessed before speaking to him. So without further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett. And this is the Diaries CEO. I hope nobody's listening. But if you are, then please keep this to yourself. Russell. Hello. One of the things I read when I was... Reading about your story was a quote. And I'm going to read the quote to you. You said, "I remained a boy while he was alive. Even when I was 18, and I needed to be a man to tell these stories." What were you talking about when you said that? Well, I don't think that's true of just me. I think any boy or probably girl has a reasonably overbearing and dominant father. You sort of remain a child. Now that I'm a father myself, I can see that's true. So when my daughter, Mina, is 40, she's still going to be my baby. So that's the positive side of it. The negative side of it is if it's quite an overbearing masculine energy, I felt sometimes a bit like a bonzai, like I kept nearly growing. And then the roots were trimmed. So I was fully grown, but small. So if my dad was in the room, I was instantly a child, like I would say, inside. So it's just a very dominating figure. And I think that would have been the same had my dad not dropped down dead from a heart attack years ago. I think that would have been the same when I'd been 40, 50, 60, if my dad had been 90 year old, shouting in the corner, I probably still would have been like that. Even if he wasn't in the room? No, no. When as soon as what in his presence, I think, but as far as that, I think that quote might be talking about stand up. I wouldn't have dared to tell the funny stories about him while he was alive, I don't think, just on the risk he was offended or there'd be consequences. What was he like for anybody that hasn't read you about your story? Steroid taking, shaving-headed, silverback, dormant, right-wing, angry, counsellor state, working-class, barbell, curl, semi-professional bodybuilder, lifeguard, sheet metal worker, lager, nutter. By lager, I don't mean someone who gets on it. I mean, someone who puts the insulation on the outside of pipes. The hardest job you can imagine crawling in boilers, ripping out asbestos, fiberglass, cup hands, white trans-eat van. Get out of the way. Just massive. Shirts, tail, this is, when he's taking steroids, that was before I was born, the shirts, tailored trousers, splitting, hulk, like at the thigh, just a force of meat called Dave. That was my dad. Actually called Dave. Dave, actually called Dave from Essex. So yeah, he was just very old-school. So even though he's more like someone who was born in about 1920, he had sort of the politics and the attitude, very unreconstructed masculinity, quite knuckle-draggy. But just worked himself to death to provide, barely raised his voice at me, certainly never laid a finger at me, but didn't need to. I find the truly terrifying cockney can just give you some of you I can get in there now and you're done. I actually pissed came out of my body once when he spoke to me like that. Really? I literally pissed myself. I'd thrown my brother on the bed and he was crying and there's nothing scary than hearing those, "Doom, doom, doom on the stairs "if you've done something to your brother or sister "and you know your dad's coming up the stairs." And he's like, "What happened? "What have you done to your brother?" I just pissed myself. And that guy never laid a finger on me. That's power. My mum definitely laid a finger. I didn't think I would have been scared if her, she didn't. But I was fucking terrified if my mum. But she would beat me. But I can imagine how she could have achieved that same objective without hitting me with something. It would be analogous of the nuclear deterrent threat. If you know I've got nuclear weapons, I don't need to fire them for you not to attack me. So I knew my dad had nuclear weapons and it sounds incredibly sexist, but rarely he is once you're a 14, 15 year old lad. You're the same size as your mum. There are no, you know, wearing the nuclear weapon. She's going to have to put her money where her mouth is. - Haven't you got to know how nuclear weapons work to know that they're... - I just needed to look at my, you know, to be honest with you, my dad's given me so many positive things, it's just that the negative things are funny. So that's why I talk about them disproportionately. But to teach someone, I'm five foot 10, like a pepper army with hair on. But when I stand on stage, I don't need to hit people or shout, they sit in their seats and some of them in the front row and shit themselves if I even look at them. So whoever I learned that from is partly my craft, but it's partly also what a good teacher has, what a good dad has, like my dad, and what a good stand up has, male or female, that authority to stand there and hold a room with a reasonable tone in the voice, pin drop. It's powerful. It's harder for a mum to do that, particularly where I go up to a lot of single mum's. When you've got teenage lads that earth sort of thinking what you're gonna do. It becomes like an arms race where the mum starts hitting the legs and hitting the face. And it's needed because that's what the mum's got to work with, I suppose. That's why I do believe this is so sexist and old school, but I do believe if not a man, two parental figures in place, one who can play the bad ass, doesn't matter if it's two women, two men, whatever, think if you've got two, it's double the force, raising a child. Takes a village. I remember, the way you've described your dad is quite different from who you are today and who you are over the last 10 years. I mean, in almost the antithesis. And I remember reading about the fact that you took a DNA test at some point. - No, I took a DNA test just out of curiosity 'cause I'm big into society and so I wanted to know what diseases I was carrying. I've always been fascinated about my ethnic makeup because my family history starts in living memory. I'm obviously a little bit darker than I should be to be a Brit. I was interested to know what was in there. But part of me did go with what if this is the moment I discover my dad's not my dad. It did cross my mind, which is totally absurd. Sorry, Mum, if you watch it. Because he was blonde hair, blonde curly hair, blue eyes, very wide. It's just that we're just not nothing in common. My brother is the spit of my dad, but I'm not my mum. Just energetic paparami with hair on running around, bouncing out of bed, stick, bursting in the morning. - And in terms of generational cycles, where did your dad get it from? - So he always used to say to me, I never had a dad. - Oh, okay. - So then my mum would say, so you got to understand your dad didn't get taught how to be at my mum's gay man. Your mum didn't get taught how to be a dad. So he didn't know how to be around babies. He'd never learned that sort of thing. He didn't have anyone to guide him. So he had quite a rough childhood. His dad walked down on him when he was about, I think he was about two. And my dad's mum's hard as nails. He's dead and well, his Essex back then barking. And it was just a tough childhood, tough East London Essex childhood, where you just survived basically. And he had a lot of dreams. I think he would have liked to have gone the same way I did. He was quite a good looking bloke. So he got scared for modeling and things like that. He pursued that for a bit. He pursued the professional bodybuilding. He even tried stand up, I think like a poncins or a butt-lindsy tried a little bit of acting, only for a couple of years. And then he went into the hardest, I think of all the manual labor you can do, which is sheet metal and insulation. So like I say, called along pipes and all that. So there's a bit, there are a lot of bitterness, a lot of unrealized dreams, a lot of abandon by your dad, a lot of hardness and negativity there from the childhood. And that plagued him his whole life. So if we were on a beautiful four-star holiday to Manulco and the sunshine in, part of him would be thinking about the five-star holiday you could have. I'm not like that at all. - How did you know he was thinking that? - Well, he would voice it after the time. - How, what were you saying? - Yeah, it's all right. Imagine, if I get the big job, imagine if we would come back. He'd be quite positive on holiday, actually, that he would like just imagine, Julie, if we had more, that's my mum, of course, Julie and Dave. If we had more money, that house we could have. And my mum would be like, Dave, we bought our own council house, thanks Thatcher. It's a big house, the biggest house in the street. We've got pillars out the front, this is the former council house. We've got pillars, we've got a swimming pool in the garden, three beautiful bedrooms, lovely bathroom, massive house, dining room, front room. They're two healthy sons at the point. My brother's very unwell by the time he was 17, but at that point, what was there to be negative about? It's hard job my dad did, but good money. But he couldn't see that. He could just see his mate who started a glass company and now he's son drove a Lambo and he lived in Chigwell. And I don't. And when my dad passed away, we were going through the shed at the bottom of the garden and I found his diary. And it was lit, it was honestly, it was one of the few things that made me cry when he died, 'cause I sort of toughened up to help with the funeral and all that, 'cause my brother was ill by then. And it's just rain today, didn't get the job. Shit day, James being a, can I swear? James being a cunt. That's my brother. Shit day, fucking ada-kari. It was like the diary of someone in prison. That's what it was like. It's so weird that someone could be rich and not know it. I love making money, don't get me wrong, but I'm really good at enjoying what I've got. So I've enjoyed every level of my comedy journey and I've never been bothered about whether I go further or not, 'cause I feel like if you can have two bang in holidays a year and you love the house you're living in and your family's healthy, done. - He was engaging in upward social comparisons, right? The whole time. And if you do that, you're never gonna be happy. - Absolutely. And you see that with people in my profession that are earning a million pounds a year, two million pounds a year, and they're in debt, 'cause they're buying an AP watch every week and they're going to them all these four times a year and they're in a 10 million pound house, they should be in a five million pound house. It's ridiculous. That's consumerism, but it worked on a more micro level. So we would, if we're going to Stansid Airport to fly to Manalka, traffic's probably gonna be shit on the right of the airport. I bet you the traffic will be shit. So we're already, he's pre-imagining the traffic jam we'll be in. If we hit a traffic jam, fucking knew it, holiday, well, probably Mr. Flight, holiday's fact jolly. I fucking told you we should've gone for a fucking told you. He didn't shout at me, but he would shout to himself sort of thing. - Did you ever figure out where he learned that behavior or where that came from? - No idea. Like I say, it was just all the bitterness and negativity and expecting things to go wrong. That was his tape, his script. So if we were in a restaurant and I'd be seven years old and I'd spill a glass of water, not coke or anything, so he's not gonna get sticky legs, he'd be like, "Waltry everywhere, fucking me a ruin. I've got to sit here like I pissed myself for the entire "me and be like the worst thing in the world has happened." Like someone at that moment's probably found a lump on their body, but to my dad, the worst thing that can happen. So I felt sorry, looking back now, you've got to feel compassionate and love because it was just a constant tide of self-pating negativity basically, and imagining if we go and buy something from an IKEA that needs to put it up, you know a screw will be missing and it's because I'm me, because I'm cursed. A fucking screw will be missing.


Are you worried you'll turn into your Dad? (13:10)

You can guarantee it, fucking hell that. All the time, so for a little boy growing up, you've got to work really hard not to absorb that. I see hints of that in my dad, especially as he got older, a little bit more negative about everything, moods, you know, seem to be irritable at a lot of things. And one of the things that crossed my mind was, I hope this isn't genetic. Like how do I avoid becoming this guy when I get to that age? Has that crossed your mind that the generational cycle might continue to some degree without you noticing? - Obviously, yeah, I mean, so my brother, I can't really go into my role as the illness, 'cause he's literally not well enough to consent for me to talk about it. Otherwise, I would happily discuss it 'cause it was an important subject to talk about, but he's got some severe mental health issues, let's just leave it there. So my brother's really sort of refreshingly unaware of his mannerisms and gestures and postures, if you like. And it's just like my old man. So how can your, another way, do your voice and the cadence of a sentence and the glances and the way you say, "No, I mean," and stuff like that. It is my old man. So I mean, on some genetic level, there are copies of how we express ourselves there must be. But apart from maybe your height, I can't think of anything you can't change with loads of ways, education, cognitive behavioral therapy, if you need it, I never have, but you can. You can work on the way you eat, your diet, your life, so all of those, you know, genetics is not destiny. The one of the most fascinating things you can look up is identical twin studies. Over and over again, you get one twin that's two inches taller than the other, where he's had a more successful, not two inches, but it might be an inch taller, where he's had a more successful life-eating, better food. So you can literally grow taller. They're genetically identical. So you can't tell me I'm destined to suddenly be negative about traffic jams. If two identical twins can be different in height, you must be able to push against behavior. - You see that film through identical strangers? - Yes, fantastic. - Yeah, amazing. - Absolutely fantastic. - Yeah, yeah. - Made me upset, inspired, you know, the ending is obviously tragic, but yeah, a really powerful film, and I think that shines a light on how. - It does, it gives hope for all of us that you're only 50% of your dad and 50% of your mom. And although you're actually slightly more of your mom I've learned out anyway. But so you don't, you're not, if you're only 50%, if twins aren't destined to be the same, you're not destined to be the same as a parent. It's a bad way to think, particularly if it's a negative. It's a good way to think if there's something you wanna copy, tell yourself it, chant it, wanna be more like my mom, she's such a cool cat or whatever. - We have also grown up in a slightly different culture, especially in the last sort of 10, 20 years, where we're much more aware of our psychology, right? And how trauma and childhood experiences have shaped us as adults. Whereas I think my dad probably didn't know. So it was like someone back there in the control room running the show without him, and he was just a puppet to the shit he'd been through. Whereas we are kind of a bit more open as a society now. - Yeah, that's my biggest learning. Mental health comes on a spectrum. It doesn't mean mentally that we have mental health. Every one of them, we have physical health, we have mental health. Even if you have no issues, that's good, you are mental health. So mental health runs on a spectrum to people that are cooking on four Hobbes like me and you hopefully, all the way down to people like my brother who are severely, severely ill with cognition issues. And people who are severely ill or people who are trapped in time, like our dads before an awakening, they don't have insight into their current state. If you do not have insight into your condition, you are screwed. Because if you're, let's say for example, schizophrenic, without insight into the fact you have schizophrenia, you will not take the medicine. You just won't take it. You'll look at the peel and go, well, I don't, I'm not ill. So you'll be in assisted accommodation your entire life. If you're schizophrenic, but no, you have schizophrenia, chances are you can have a relatively normal life because you know, I need to take my medicine. But you can translate that thinking to any aspect of business or commerce, to stand-ups, to entrepreneurs, because I've noticed, I call it black box thinking from the Matthew Sayed, but the moment you can have insight into a stand-up routine, going to a business proposition in a proper way where you can look it and go, that doesn't work, you're gonna be successful. People that don't have insight into themselves in their personal lives, they end up single, they end up in unhappy relationships, because they can't see their own faults, they can't insight into themselves and go this.


How do we become more self-aware? (17:30)

Quick one, starting from the minute the lockdown is lifted, we're gonna start bringing in some of our subscribers to watch how this podcast is produced behind the scenes. Means you get to meet the guests, meet myself, and see how we put all of this together. If you want that to be you, all you've gotta do, hit the subscribe button. - I mean, this is just an impossibly tough question. 'Cause we're talking about self awareness really, right? So like how does, and people have asked me this question for the last five years, and I really don't have a great answer still, how does one become more self-aware? - Well, it was literally part of my degree. - I'm perfect. - I'm very lucky. - Here we go. - I started doing English literature, 'cause I wanted to do the most show-off uncounsel estate posh subject possible, right? I mean, I was gonna get a first, or I was, I don't know what was gonna happen, so I told myself I'm gonna get a first no matter what. That was pre-ordained. So I did two years of showing off about, you know, Roland Bartz and Jane Austen and all that, and there was an opportunity in the last year to cross over into creative writing, and the reason I did that, is again goes back to my dad. It's not very practical to be absolutely bad-ass on Jane Austen, and they're gonna wanna be a lecturer and academic, whereas creative writing is a practical profession. You can go into advertising, you can go into journalism, you can try and write books, as it turns out going to stand up, I didn't know that yet. There's loads of places where you can go, look, I'm not just got a first in English, I've got a first in writing, I can take body copy and make you a brand pop. So how do you do a dissertation in creative writing? There's only one way. You have to submit 10,000 words, normal academic, pouncing about, and you have to submit 10,000 words short story play, but you have to run through your own work and criticize it and say what you got right and what you got wrong. Once you've been through that, and done it loads of times, it just becomes natural to bring it to your life. A copy writer in an advertising agency has to be able to really hate his own work he just created and find the faults in it, 'cause that will lift it above Ogilvy's copy writer and you'll win the pitch. It's as simple as that, the person, the man who cannot realize he's domineering or jealous and work on that will not have a fruitful relationship in order to do that with your life or with your copy or with your work, whatever in marketing, you have to have a certain level of self esteem and personal security to allow yourself to rise above your work and look back down on it in a critical way. A lot of people's self esteem are so fragile that the prospect of being critical is it's just unthinkable. Like, you know, and this is why people get different, from my experience, why people get so defensive and 'cause they're so, if you one shot to their self esteem will take the whole house down so that they immediately go like this. - So you could look at it that way. So I would say if that person needs to learn, not self esteem, because self esteem is a totally separate conversation, they need to learn objectivity. A piece of writing is a thing. A relationship is a thing that you've built with someone. A comedy routine is a thing, a poem is a thing. The thing's over there that's not you. You have to practice being able to take the piss out of the thing, criticize the thing. No, someone's not coming up to you and going, you're ugly, you're unlovable, you've got a big nose, you're not tall enough.


How does someone become successful? (21:11)

Stuff like that is gonna hurt and there's no way of getting objective. But if you can't look at a poem you've written and someone goes, "I really love the meter," but the adjective there's a bit obvious, then you should be able to thank that person. They're giving you a gift if they know their shit, but you're the one that should be saying that first. M&M style, eight mile, seize the bars and turn them on yourself first. - Hard to do. Because everything's like-- - It makes better work, it makes better humans. - Yeah, I completely agree, it's just really tough to do. - Practice, it's practice. - I get a lot of, this is the message I get most offered, sent to me via my agent or an Instagram and it drives me fucking nuts. I had one the other week, "Oh my God, I love what you do, I'm a really funny person." This is how it was for easy of the week. How many gigs would I have to do before I could open for you on tour? Can you have a look at some stuff I filmed on my phone? And I give them an answer that I never get a reply to this answer. I say, "Okay, it's quite simple, "lucky for you, there is a really simple model to follow. "You need to work unpaid for three years in the clubs, "three times a week. "I wouldn't recommend a relationship "and just warn your friends, you're not gonna see them." I started to earn about two, three hundred pounds a week after five years. At that point, you're ready to give up your day job. On about the eighth or ninth year, you're gonna be ready to do a support slot. I never-- - That's my family. - That's my family. - People don't wanna hear it. But if you went up to the guy in the gym who's 16 stone and 5% body fat can you tell me how I can get like that? You'd say the machines are over there dickhead, just get going. The machines are there. You cannot skip the machine. You cannot skip the tricep station if you want triceps. You can't just go, but it's gonna hurt. It's too much work to get a tricep. And then just don't get triceps. But don't moan if you don't have triceps. Head to the dip station and see you in four years. - I've heard about this. My book came out last week and I wrote about it in my book I remember someone turning to me. It was actually the CEO of my company now. Come and I've just left and he said to me, Steve, you know this personal brand stuff and this like speaking you do on stage. He was like how long did it, like how do I do it? And your brain immediately scrambles around looking for like three tips, right? Three tips to describe like a deck. I remember my first talk in school at 14 years old, my hand shaking. - Absolutely. - The truth is like someone's seen you with a sharp sword and they've said how do I get a sword that sharp? So it's a world start sharpening it now and then 10 years time. But people don't want that. No one wants to hear the answer is boring, repetitive practice. For most people that are absolutely fucking excellent at something have done a lot of boring, repetitive practice that would be boring to the person asking the question not to us. I loved every shit gig I did. - And that's the difference. That's what kept you doing it for 10 years or two decades or whatever, is that you genuinely intrinsic loved it for us. - And that's all the rewards, right? - But when they, if they started and genuinely wanted they too would discover that love. If you say I wanna be an identity, you start dental training and you're finding it boring in a slog, news flash, you don't actually wanna be a dentist. - You'll be rich. - Yeah, so find something else. Find something where you loved the journey. That is a secret sign. That's what my dad never found. He didn't find a job he took pleasure in. He's got nothing to do with coin, although I'm into it. But if you love the outdoors, you're gonna love landscaping, whether you're on 17 grand a year or 17 million a year. You're gonna love it because that's what you were born to do. - It's such a counter narrative to the narrative that sells, which is like short investment big returns. It's like seven days, six pack abs. That's everyone fucking signs up for that. Imagine that the like 10 years, maybe. - Maybe. - That's true. And the problem is a lot of the TV we make, I make, it sells that X Factor spot, do one song, live the Pimp lifestyle. And of course that is what in the all of the X Factor that's ever been on and all of pop star the rivals, how many of those people are now platinum, selling artists, living in mansions? What, Harry Styles, try and name some. - One direction, that's it. - That's out of every single little mixed humor. That's out of every single one in a show that's designed to push people to the front in artificial way. So if you think that's gonna happen, if you're a Russell from Essex, you're deluded. It's, but any business, if you're passionate, mixed with a little bit of luck, people, this is the other thing people like us don't like putting out there. I'm afraid there is a bit of luck involved. And it's sort of causing, like we always sat here again, I've worked so hard, look at me with my work hard badge, but at some point we had some luck as well, which is we're in the right place, right time, mixed with the hard work. So some people are more lucky than others. Luck is a thing. And what luck is, not luck as in lottery number luck, but luck is in, oh my God, you've met the perfect partner. You've met the business. Oh, you were looking for a French ball dog breeder and you found exactly the right one at the right time when you were looking for a puppy. Why are you so lucky? Why is my life so shit? So they tested this. They got a bunch of people together. Half people who say, my life's shit, I'm so unlucky and half people like me, who like I've got to admit I'm a bit bled and bled hashtag blessed, I do have a lot of luck. And they run tests on them. And the test they run was very simple. The psychologist, I can't mean it's the British Jewish guy, really funny, brings loads of books out, Richard something or other. He's written a book about it about luck, look it up. They gave him a newspaper each and they went in there, go into your separate rooms and on a page is a picture you're looking for. Whoever finds that picture comes in first, gets 100 pounds cash.


Personal responsibility (26:47)

That was the game. So everyone went in like that. On page two, in massive headlines was, it's a trick, stop turning. If you've read this headline, go and collect the money. That was on page two. All the unlucky people missed that. All the lucky people found it. You know why? Because lucky people are eyes are open, the hustlers. So it turns out you can make luck. You can practice that, you can hone it. That's something you can hone. Next time you walk into a meeting, just think, right, what's that guy do for a living? Who's that, is that a contact? That's not luck if I sit down next to someone and he happens to be doing a comedy streaming service, start up and he signs me up. That's me being a bit bold and striking up a conversation and looking at what he's wearing and having a think. You can learn these skills. - People don't like that because that sharp puts the mirror on me and creates personal responsibility. You know what I mean? And I feel like in our society at the moment, this is just an observation I've had. Personal responsibility is people fucking hate that. I remember doing a tweet about, 'cause okay, this was me playing a bit of fuckery, but I don't care, right? So the left of society, which I probably consider myself to be on, are really in support of the NHS. So I did a tweet saying the biggest cost to the NHS is like smoking, eating bad, et cetera. So if you really care about the NHS, take care of yourself, tell you, "Oh, people like no, Steve." This is literally the replies like, "This is not it." Because I'm basically saying, if you genuinely care about the health service, here is all the data. The biggest burden on the NHS is people that are overweight and people that are smoking or whatever. - Well, the obesity one's particularly controversial because there's two movements at the same time. There's personal responsibility in the science we're learning about, basically, particularly during COVID. I mean, if you want to do one thing other than social distancing, obviously get a vaccine, but most of us are too young to have had a vaccine. So if you haven't had the vaccine and you don't want to live life like a prisoner, the best thing you can do is get in shape, quick. You're literally better off being, I think, a thin smoker, literally, yeah. But it's a controversial conversation because quite rightly we're reevaluating beauty standards and a lot of people end up with eating disorders and fat shaming and all that, it needs to go away. And as soon as we associate personal responsibility, longevity and health with a body type, we're in a difficult area where we create shame for people based on how they look, which is something we want to get rid of. So for someone like me who's on the left, my head just goes pop. - Yeah, you don't know where to stop. - Smoking is a slam dunk. Don't smoke, you're a bellend. - Yeah, yeah. - At end of, dickhead, don't smoke, stop costing me money on the NHS. But someone that might be overweight, it's very, very complex to understand why someone's overweight. It's something I studied a lot, not because I've been overweight, but because I'm fascinated with biohacking and body and all of that. And I think the most illuminating thing I can tell anyone about being overweight is that eating too much does not make you overweight. This is no one understands this. I'm gonna blow your mind here. Being overweight causes you to eat too much. Once you have the metabolic condition of being overweight, that fucks your circuitry, which drives you to eat more. Obesity causes calorie surplus. So shaming people for eating too much is a waste of time because most people with busy lives and kids and no money are in a condition that's compelling them to eat more, might be emotionally compounded, might be psychological compounded, they might be recovering from abuse, they might be recovering from a bad relationship, they might just be skinned and can only afford fucking nuggets and they're just tired, they're not getting enough sleep. And unfortunately, until you get into a low fat state like us where it's easy to regulate your calorie, every part of your body is telling you to feed this obesity. No one understands that. I've gone deep into the science, I'm not a scientist to look up for yourself before everyone starts trolling me saying literature degree boy. But as far as I understand the science, layman's cards on table, obesity causes overeating. Now that is just boom, but it helps us to be more, as much as I agree with what you're saying, it just, it leavens more compassion into people's weight loss journey, although you're absolutely correct. If you don't wanna die of COVID and you don't wanna cost the NHS money, getting in shapes one of the best ways to do it. - Well of course it's not easy. And I've had moments in my life where I've been most stressed and it's a downward cycle. Like, you know what I mean? So you eat and then you require sugar more and sugar becomes this addictive thing in my life. And it only happens to me when I'm stressed. So I'll have my little moments of downward cycle in my health when there's a lot on my mind. And so yeah, I mean compassion is certainly incredibly important in that regard. What about more broadly? So outside of health, the topic of personal responsibility, I like it 'cause it's controversial. And I discuss the new one. - Trying to get us in the Daily Mail here. - No I just-- - Make the little head. - Fat people don't pay for themselves. - No, no, just generally in your life and success and like what you can accomplish. The fortunate position I'm in, which is what I talked about in my last podcast was because I came from like a very broke family where my mum can't read or write and I was born in Africa and we didn't have anything, no Christmas birthdays, holidays, my journey in life. People don't discredit it. They don't point at me and say, oh, you know, silver spoon, you can't fucking talk. - Yeah, same. - So I feel like I can have the conversation a little bit more about personal responsibility. Of course I'm fucking incredibly lucky. Like I didn't choose to be me, you know what I mean? I didn't choose my parents or the good and bad things that shaped me. But I wanna have a conversation about personal responsibility as it relates to career success. And let's start with hard work. 'Cause in our society right now, there's two counter narratives. One is that don't work like, "We're incredibly hard, you're gonna burn out "and you're gonna have mental health problems." And the other is, I've never met someone that sat here in front of me, that doesn't work really fucking hard. And I did. I don't know how I would have sat here with that hard work and tremendous sacrifice. - Well, first of all, we sort of already made the point that a lot of people are working hard at things they hate. So working hard at things you dislike hate or find stressful will bring success and money but at a cost. Working hard at things you love. I finished filming at midnight last night in mates and I got in at half one. I had my dinner at two and I fell asleep at three. And I bounced out of bed this morning to come here to do a podcast for the price of a car. Why? Because I love what I do. Now, if I had gotten at three from working as a hospital porter and had to get up to do another job which was quite well paid this morning but I hated it, I wouldn't be buzzing. And that's what releases the cortisol and the stress hormone into your body. So you can't compare, and you're not comparing like and like even though both people are working hard. You've even got people that might be barristers or doctors really well paid professions but find it stressful when they're burnt out and stuff. It's unlikely you and I will burn out because I'm like, what's next? - And you're intrinsically motivated by it. You've got a sense of control. - Exactly. So that's what I think that-- - Interesting. - I think we can differentiate there on hard work straight away. So far I'm more interested in the first thing you said about the join between people's origin story and how much they get for the success they've got 'cause I have to phrase mine a lot more than you because I get put in with the Silver Spoon guys because I'm a white man. - It's a whale, yeah. - So I'm not gonna use real names here and I'm not gonna use real jobs because I respect, my profession is so hard, I don't give a shit whether your prince jobs doing stand up, anyone who does stand up, I just, it's so hard to stand up. And I don't think an elite background helps you in stand up. Might help you in telling and production might help you on stage with a bucket of piss. But I've been told on more than one occasion, we'd love to book you for the X show but we've already got Ollie and so we got Ollie, we can't have two. And I'm like, how is, how me and Ollie represent the same thing? I sometimes think, well, I've got more in common with, I could phone up, I don't know if you know who Judy Love is, that's a good media. I could phone up Judy now and we could speak for an hour. But we both grew up same, similar part of London, similar age, similar family. Yes, she's got Jamaican stories but I've got Essex stories. That's the only difference in our conversation. We come from the same place economically, we come with fighting the same fight, we're punching up from, we never, no one would ever say that. I'll probably be in trouble for even saying that, that's the controversial thing for me to say. And it shouldn't be because if Corbin and people like that have got it right, everyone who starts with what I call lower entitlement points, I've got a lot more entitlement points than a woman of colour, undoubtedly. But I've got less entitlement points, probably than a Ghanaian prince, right? So all the people that have got, I'll start with, I should link arms, don't matter what gender you are, what colour you are, that would be powerful. I'm a bit nervous when we get carved up and we're people who start in life in a tower block, that tower block should be united, you know what I mean? So that's the first point. But I do think we do get off lightly if we've got money, if we had a more counsellor state background. It's like a licence to be okay with having money. Like I can wear my rollie by the paw when I'm in Ibiza because I sound common. If I sounded posh, I probably would keep the brightling on. Yeah. No, it's so true. One of my guests that I had on the podcast went to a very good school and is white and blonde and very pretty. And she basically can't give advice to anybody without the papers smashing her. Or social media. In fact, there was a meme before she came on the podcast, there was a meme that went viral. I think it did 250,000 retweets when the day she released her book. And it was this, someone pinned someone up against all with a big trumpet and it was like white privilege telling you how to become rich. Like she is not allowed to give advice to anybody because she's white and went to Oxford. And how much good insight and business knowledge and whatever do we lose? So many people went to Oxford and didn't build multi-million pound, two multi-million pound companies. I still wanna hear this from this person. If someone's offering you knowledge, it's not like she's telling you about her struggles earlier the other day there was a queue in Waitreuse and I just couldn't keep that. That would be the trumpet. She's trying to tell you how to build a business. So it doesn't matter where you could, if you come from space, if you can make me money, tell me how. If you can tell me how to start the next comedy streaming platform service where I own 40% of the shares, I only give a fuck if you've got a double first one Cambridge or whether you're one of the Mandum, I don't care. Show me where to show me how to do it. You've got to have an open, knowledge is, is once it's out there is democratic, the path to acquiring it is not. But there's no doubt about, let's try to stay on topic, what you're saying about personal responsibility is I'm really split on this because I don't believe it's true that anyone with enough will and luck can make it. I think we're probably outliers and freaks and just wired a bit different and I've got what it takes to push through. I think if enough blocks are in place, you're a single child of a drug using my menotow block and I am built of stronger stuff. So I've bounced through my childhood and I've come out the other side, but a lot of people aren't. If we were all born the same, then why aren't I playing basketball? Why am I not sprinting? Why am I not a maths scholar? Some of us are born genetically more equipped in other departments. I'm clearly a highly energetic person who's good at motivating themselves. Some part of that is in born. I was like it as a baby before I could speak. The toddlers are dribbling on their blocks. Where the blocks hit? So it's unfair for us to go if only Neil at the top of the tower block could have been like us. He too could have been an entrepreneur because maybe he just being a single mum, being of colour or being transgender or being not everyone has the strength to push through those things. Everyone does and it's unfair to go up to a wheelchair and go just stand mate, I'm using wheel power with my legs. Why can't you? Because some people, that is a wheelchair, they're social background and they don't have the strength and then they start using drugs and they just sink too low. Not everyone can pull themselves out. That's why we do need more equality. - Yeah, I agree. I'm definitely pro-quality. There's a sense of helplessness I get if I go all the way and say, no successful people, well they were born with something. It creates a sense of like, well then, you're all just stuck in our lanes forever. And if I believe that when I was shot lifting pizzas in Manchester, but then again, it's said, what I do understand, I actually, when the harder I reflect, I basically give myself credit for nothing because I was born into a situation in a country, I actually think my bad experiences are why I'm here. Like the fact that my parents weren't around at 10 years old, created this big gap of independence, et cetera, et cetera. I've told this during a million times, but it's the bad shit that is the reason that I became an outlier, I think. I became very obsessive, obsessed with money. My book, that's why it's called Happy Sexy Millionaire 'cause it's the first page of my diary when I was like a kid. I wanna be happy, why did I wanna be happy sexy million 'cause we were fucking broke. - Have you got siblings though? - Yeah, I got three. - So they're all happy sexy millionaires? - No, one of them. None of them are like me. And they don't understand me either. They look at me and like scratch their head. - But what does that tell you? It's almost like you've run a controlled experiment. - Exactly. - So tuning out, genetics versus willpower. - The difference between my childhood experience and theirs was they were raised by parents. And I basically wasn't. So I was the youngest. So by the age of I was 10, my parents were like, oh, we've done parenting now. We will work all the time. And we will be out of the house when Steve comes home and we'll be out the house when he wakes up. So I was the only one where the experiment was total independence. - So thought experiment for you. If you'd have been born a fraternal twin, another boy. - Yeah. - So as much your brother as your other brother but haven't you born at the same time? Same conditions, same school, everything happens. So do you believe you would have another happy sexy millionaire living in the flat opposite? Or do you think depends on what that brother's personality was like? 'Cause we both know that that brother's personality is what would have decided, whether he sat at this table with us today or not. And personality does come into it. We are born with different personalities to an extent. So I'm not saying we're all stuck in our lanes, but I'm saying we need more social mechanisms 'cause some Einstein's don't have energy. Some Einstein's might be a bit emotionally weaker. So we lose, say in my example of Neil's or the tableck, he might be really fucking amazing. We'll never harvest that talent because our society is set up with too many blocks in place to scoop it out. We had one thing in place for about 40 years called grammar schools. Very controversial, very unfair, dumping a load of 11 year olds in the thick bin. My mum went to a secondary modern, my dad went to a secondary modern, my wife, my brother-in-law, my mother-in-law and father-in-law all went to secondary moderns. So I know people who were told, you know, good at 11. So I don't say this lightly, and I know how horrific that is, but the data does suggest that there was a short period where we scooped off some bright poor of children, not necessarily Neil in the tower block, but at least the poor of children whose parents meant well but were too poor. We got them, we got more Einstein's. When you watch question time, switch it on, and I went to a state school and they're giving it all that. It will always be a grammar school.


Is there no hope for some people? (42:54)

Always, it's very rarely I went to the local comprehensive and now I'm an MP. It's always, I went to a state which state school. It's a grammar school. You went to an elite education then. State, but elite selective. So we need small stuff like that. What can we do in our communities? What can our youth workers do? What can we set up in council estates, headhunters that look for talent, particularly boys, I'm going to say that because I was a boy once, but there's a real problem with teenage boys and all these testosterone kicks in and it goes the wrong way for most of us. - When I came in your podcast, you asked very controversial questions. I think you like those questions. These are the ones that are most interesting too aren't they? - Yeah, as long as I get in trouble. - Well, it's hard to tell. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. So I guess my, I was just thinking then, this is a controversial question, but he asked me controversial questions. Is there no hope for some people? What, what can we, so zoom out context? Got a friend, tried really hard to help them change their life or do something for themselves. 10 years of effort made all the offers in the world for this person. Still, job seekers allowance, you know, somewhat depressed, can't seem to have any impact. We grew up in the same street. We were best friends, my whole childhood. I went off, he stayed there. - I got tons of examples like that. So I have to speak very euphemistically now. I'll be canceled, not by the internet, but by my friends and family, stroke, associate stroke. I don't even want to say which group these people are in. I've all of this. I've had female friends who I'm like, stopped dating bastards from the next guy. He's nice, he is a coke dealer. And he's like, he's gonna fucking, he's clear, he's gonna shaggy mate. And some of these women are getting to 35, you know, like with the final egg in the goblet, like in Indiana Jones waiting to be fertilized. And this, the next guy, he's got, we've got three kids by three different women. He's got an electronic tag, but it's great 'cause we can spend some time in it. Just bang a boring guy, or a guy that likes Dungeons and Dragons or an accountant. What, they cut, there's a sexual attraction there to bastard men that some women, particularly from my sort of background working class women, find hard to get over, would be one example. But you can get over it. It is possible to do it. The mistake people like you and I make is we try to help and say you've got a friend who's unmotivated, depressed, leaves every job after three months. It's always someone else's fault. It's always the system. It's always, if only Corbyn was in power. It's my dad did this, my mum did that. Always putting it on someone else. And then you're making it worse by putting it on you, let me help, you're just a positive version of that. The solution is, they have to switch the light bulb on in themselves. They may not get there. But the moment they wake up and go, "Today's the day I'm going to try and change my life." They should, that's the first step. It might be speaking to a therapist. It might be changing your career. It might be enrolling in A levels that you do at nighttime, like I did. That was lucky enough. My revelation came up when I was A. - You were on job seekers allowance at one point. - I was, yeah, I did my A levels late 'cause I had this spark moment. But it's got to come from within them. It's not something as yet, although science might get there one day, but we can give to you in a pill or an injection. You've got to suddenly have, right back to the beginning of the chat, insight and be like boom, chest out. I'm going to see a therapist. I'm not going to use negative language. I'm going to get this self-help book, which gives me some CB cognitive therapy tools. I always mung up the cannabis, - That's too busy. - It's a CBT. So yeah, it's got to come from them. But for you and I, fixes, how can we solve it? How can I redraft the copy? What's the solution? Unfortunately, the solution is trying to get them to have some insight. So if you have got a friend like that, maybe have that sort of conversation with them that spurs self-reflection, because giving them a million pound a year job is just going to make them worse 'cause that muscle that's atrophied will stay atrophied. That's sort of standing up, making your own strength muscle. - I've been on my heel journey for a couple of years now, but in the case of some of my best friends who I've talked about on this podcast before, one particular friend called Ashley Jones, who knows that I talk about him in his transformation story. He did have a problem eating certain foods.


Why did you become a comedian? (47:07)

And so he transitioned to making fuel a greater part of his diet. And the guy went from being, and I'm sorry Ash if you're listening, the guy went from being like slightly overweight, constantly having health issues that are unrelated to like being slightly overweight, to literally having a six pack, posting his six pack on Instagram, but more importantly, being high energy and feeling amazing. So when I'm like talking to you guys about heel, I do so with such a level of passion because I believe that it can really help change your lives in a significant way. I believe it can make you mentally better. I know it can make you physically better. And so yeah, what a joy it is to have a sponsor that you believe in that much. Yeah, and they're also just really good people. - One of the most probably scary things from my perspective that you ever did was walking out on stage for the first time for your first gig ever. Like what the fuck were you thinking? - Hmm. - Going out and walking in front of people and telling fucking jokes are you sure? - Like with me, it's even more complex 'cause I don't know if you've had any stand ups on here before. - Never. - But the majority of them, and quite rightly so, will be like from a young age, I used to watch Blubber Blur on TV. I used to watch all these American comics. I used to watch Chris Rock, Bill Hix. I knew that's what I wanted to do, man. I was like, you know, I was like the young boxer in the alleyway, I knew I was gonna book none of that. Nothing. There is zero in my CV that shows an affinity for the craft of stand up. Always been the Joker. I'm not being funny today, I don't know why. You got me on one. Normally, I'm always asking around. This is not the thing I do on stage. I'm just like the clown person. - Why? - Just again, I've just always been, I just love making people laugh. I've always been a Joker. There's some data to suggest that youngest children have it, and I'm not the youngest child. Or people born in August in July, purely because if you're smaller than everyone else, you've got to develop your personality quick. So if you could look at the premiership, you won't find many footballers born in August. - I'll explain why I never made it. - August. - August 26th. - So you won't find it. - 26th as well. - You won't find many sportsmen or anyone that requires size or physical prowess, those professions. So even if you turn out to be a very tall teenager, you're less likely to become a basketball player than a teenager, one inch shorter than you, who was born in October. The reason being, you'd have been pushed by the coach and taught and everything early doors at six, seven, eight years old. So and there is some data to suggest that people who work with their personalities for a living, people that have to solve entrepreneurs and find little rat runs and alleyways, develop that based on being smaller or more vulnerable. But I could take lots of forms. I've got an overbearing dad as well. So I'm an August baby, overbearing dad and some of it will be genetic. My mum's very funny. - You talked a little bit about, I was reading some of your interviews, you talked a little bit about how it was a bit of a defense mechanism maybe in school. You found that place. - That's what I mean, yeah. - Yeah, I wasn't, but I don't know how I wasn't bullied, but I wasn't the smallest, no girlfriend, wasn't in with the in crowd at all. I was sort of like an external group that had diplomatic immunity, definitely virgin, definitely no cool friends, definitely one of the idiots, but we don't punch him 'cause he's sort of all right. Obviously I did get, it's a work and class school, I did get punched a lot, but not as much as, I was in that league, you probably won't even remember them, just above the bullet, the boring gray league. - Yeah, no point. - Yeah, which is the place to be at school, 'cause if you're popular at school, we all know, you're gonna have a shit life. - That was the promo, just like that. - So anyway, so because of where I grew up, it's not people like, well, how can you have no content with your stand-ups? You've got to remember my age, I know I look young from my age, I'm 45. So what was my dad watching on TV? Jim Davidson, Bernard Banning, Jimmy Jones, it's like Bruce Forsyff and Jimmy Tarbuck, you know, live at the Palladium and all that. It's not, obviously they're all talented comedians, and I do mean that, but it just didn't resonate with, what, it's not about my life, so I'd laugh 'cause my dad was laughing, but I was like, what's this crazy art form, I've got to learn more. Me and my friends, mostly either, smoking, it's all about getting high, or we'd watch old young ones or whatever the funny sitcom of the day was, "Mimme having badly," or whatever it was, that's what I thought comedy was. No, we didn't go to the theater at the weekend, we didn't know which cultural pursuit we do this weekend, family, it was like, "Dad works all week, he's tired, "we have a curry, your nan looks after you, "and then when you get to 15, 16, "you get stoned over the park, "get someone pregnant working a shop, die." That's it, that's the finish line. So I managed to, like I say, have this weird entrepreneur turn my life around, get my first class degree moment, but just by sheer bad luck, I ended up at a university that did not have a stand-up night, most of them do. So again, I went those three years without any exposure to the student bar stand-up, it was all music, it was some theatre, no one talked about stand-up, we didn't have this sort of slightly fashionable thing now being obsessed with American stand-ups, I'd like to say to my British colleagues, just remember it, if you start having this sort of slick quality to your stand-up, it can look a bit mannered, that's just a side point. So I went all the way to the office to my dream job as an advertising copywriter with no content we stand up, just being funny as fuck the clown legend on a night out, first one up dancing, but I didn't know that that was something you could do for a living, and I ended up doing a job I loved, branding, copyright and headline, I still love it, you can tell by the way I'm describing it, and then the creative planner was like, you're always the one up at the pitches, I would do, like if we're pitching to a big client, I would do like the funny bit with interruptions to get them on the side when I'm presenting the creative, he said, why don't you try stand-up, Stephen Wertman, if you're watching, thank you. Why don't you just try stand-up with your mind, his gloves, who are you, and I thought, do you know what? Do it once, like doing a bungee jump or a skydive, or karaoke, it's just, that's as far as my thinking went, something to tell the kids, so I wrote a few ideas down in a book, booked an open spot in, and I went and did it, it was very scary, I think I did a pack of emodium before I went on, and my hand was shaking, and I got that, it wasn't obviously wasn't great, but I did well-ish, first laugh was like someone stuck, cocaine, heroin, ketamine, everything in my, no, I've done those drugs, but everything in my veins, and I was hooked, you know, in the proper sense of that, it fucked my life, everything fell apart, like a junkie, how can I get more of that? I wanna give five nights a week for no money. I've got a creative director, we're talking about multi-million pound accounts, advertising is you work till 8 p.m., you have pizza on your birthday under your table, you sleep at the office, I'm running off to do unpakeings in Manchester, my relationship with my girlfriend fell apart, my bills started to not be paid, I started to look thin, 'cause I suffered with my nerves in the beginning, I'm throwing up, like both ends, it's the closest thing to a drug addiction that I've ever experienced, I would have not seen my mum for a year to chase this dream, I was hooked with on that laugh, and like this is what I'm born to do, I just fucking know it, how can I monetize it, basically? - How, why were you hooked on the laugh, why did the laugh matter so much to you? - It's a rush, it's a rush, anyone is, I've not taken any serious drugs, anyone that's taken any recreational drugs, which is a bad analogy, 'cause they're not actually addictive, but coffee for example, I can't live my life without it, why are you addicted, as absurd as asking me, why I'm addicted to coffee, because I wake up, I feel alive and I have an amazing day, the same, the laugh goes in, buzz, serotonin, pupils dilated afterwards, I wanna tell everyone about it, like I was taking shit footage into work and showing it to people and playing it in the office, look at me, that's me, look at, come and look at me, this grainy footage, I mean that's embarrassing, I did that, I just couldn't believe it, I couldn't believe I was getting laughs from strangers, it was straight to the ego, straight to the cortex. - Everyone has that, but do you, have you ever considered that you might have, that might have mattered more to you, maybe because of your childhood, whatever, than other people, that sense of like, that validation and that. - Yeah, maybe, I mean, I'd had plenty of validation at work, I'd had the whole office cheer, I'd rung the bell when we've won big pitches, I've got the rush in the meeting, but nothing, it's the difference, I'm trying not to talk about drugs all the time, is the difference between going from a beer to MDMA, right? - I don't recommend any hard drugs obviously, particularly people who work with their brains, you're a fool if you mess with the equipment, but you can't compare them, when you say everyone has that, not everyone stood on stage to a thousand people and seeing people standing and clapping, that is different, it's of a different category of ego rush, very dangerous. - What problems does that give you? - Well initially all of them come with it, so you talk about it. See that, my life fell apart like a junkie, I was down to 10 stone at one point. So it come to the point where I had to say this needs to not be a drug, this needs to be a food and I left the agency and then I was, phew, you know, off. - Still today though, right, so all things come with their costs, what is the cost today of that career and that rush and that? - I suppose the worst thing is the travel, that is a genuine negative one, since Min has been born my daughter. I actually quite like travelling, I like being in the back of a car, I love watching movies, I love reading and I love eating on the move, so all the things that most people hate, I just happen to quite enjoy, just pure, I don't know why, 'cause I'm always on the go, I like being forced to sit still and watch a movie, so I love flights for example, the longer the better. - You still shit yourself now when you're about to. - Yes big time, but so far as missing part of your child growing, massive negative, doing a tour is, there's a guilt thing in your gut and you do cry a bit after FaceTime and that particular one is a baby. So that's the biggest negative I can think of, but once you're with a woman or a man, that gets it, there's no negative in your relationship. I was with a couple of girls before who would make me feel bad about being away, whereas Lindsay's kicking me out the door, she's focused on the business, we're a team, that's well paid, fuck off, see you later, don't call home if you're stressed, I'm caught with it, that's what you need man, you need somebody who gets it. I do shit myself though, still, yes. You know the, the, a modium scale goes up depending on how much of my show it is. So if you'd booked a show for me today, where you're going to introduce me and I'm going to do 20 minutes stand up and you've got 2,000 people in the room, there would be nerves there, fair bit of nerves, but mostly I'm ready to knock the gig the fuck out with my first punch.


How do you overcome nerves? (58:14)

If you've put an event on, Michael McIntyre's closing and you're hosting it and you, to me at the last minute, he said, "Ras, I've decided to do two halves, can you do 20 minutes at the top?" I'd ship myself because they're not there for me, they're there for you and him and I've got a conversion job to do. - Right. - And the risk is massive, then Michael's fans are your fans. And that's when the nerves kick in when I'm doing Royal Variety Show or live at the Apollo where people have responded to a TV ticket, not me, that's when the nerves go back to old school style nerves. - How, how do you, what's the battle you have with those nerves in terms of your cognition and before you go on stage, what are the tips you can give people? A lot of people. - There's two ways to work on that. The first thing is the actual practical thing on the night, I would say, just work with breathing and mindfulness and all the stuff that you probably read a thousand times. The other thing to do is if you can find a way to do it, it depends which stage of your career you're at. If you're at the stage of the career like me and you, a lot of, I'm not trying to be offensive, a lot of people are sucking addicts a lot of the time. So we're constantly walking into the rooms where people think we're legends and it's never gonna be a difficult gig. Now again, something comes up where you're the tadpole and you don't have the hardware in place and a fucking Bill Gates is speaking before you, open for his host in it and all of a sudden you're, "Who's this guy?" You're having a day of who's this guy. We're all, we can all have a who's this guy day. And the only way to practise that is to put yourself in more who's this guy moments regularly. So how I do that, as soon as my tour finishes, I book the smallest, hardest, weirdest. They might have bad lighting, they might have no microphone, they might be half sold and I'm unlisted. Unlisted, unannounced, unexpected. And I'll walk on to tiny clubs full of drunk men, 50 year old, you keep dads, all of those places. I put myself in those all the time because the risk is high, the nerves are the same, but the consequence is zero. So I'm constantly training the muscle of convert the people who don't know who I am, keeping it sharp the whole time. So whatever business you're in, you'll be able to think of an equivalent way of doing that. So set up smaller situations where you're having to keep that muscle because the danger is the more successful you get, you lose the muscle of walking into a room full of skeptics. And if you lose that muscle, that's the money making muscle. So practise it, I keep mine tight at all times. I constantly put myself in un-built, unlisted, unideal situations. When you walk on to a stage when you're at my level, which I would call myself quite recognisable, you can't say I'm like Michael McIntyre or Chris Rock or someone, but I'm sort of known as a stand up. So what that means is when I will can stage at the comedy store, late show, 400 people drunk off their tits, workdoos, hendoos, and I'm un-built, unexpected, unlisted, the room splits into three, straight away. It splits into, oh my God, he's him fucking what a treat. We've got him for 20 quid to the middle. Who's that? Am I supposed to know that is? Is he good? I don't know. I think I've seen him. And the final group can't stay in this cunt. That's the only group I'm playing to when a little bit in the middle group. They're the only people I'm interested in because that's where the muscle building exercises. And then when you go on stage to your audience, they get you like that. - Yeah. - But if you come with that conversion energy to your own audience, you must be, you must be. - You don't need it. That's the problem. All you gotta do is put your foot out and they're like, "She's foot is amazing." That's the problem. That's the problem. You get flabby, easy in all businesses. - So you talked about your relationships there and your current partner.


Relationships, evolution of one & cheating (01:02:13)

I heard you got married for nine months. - Oh yes. - No idea. - You forgot. - Yeah. I'm sorry, I realized what you mean. Yeah, no idea that I was married, I was married, but so I'm currently, I'm trying to enjoy my middle marriage, that's what I say to me. - Okay. - I'm not married. - Okay. - No, I was, so we realized we were just mates. There was a romance there. We had a lot in common. We were both into this same world and we were sort of living together and we got married and we were like, that was a mistake and then we just weren't married. And it was totally amicable, no fighting, no problems at all. - But you talked about the understanding that your current partner has? - Current wife. - Yeah. So my former partner, the one who was married if you know I months had that as well, which is why we thought we should probably get married but we realized we were married and he's more than that. So yeah, so Lindsay doesn't get jealous unless I do something dickhead, like follow a glamour model and instant and like a bikini pic which I get my ass kicked but still do 'cause I'm Neanderthal. And some of them are man, a monkey press button, punted. So unless I do something stupid like that, which I rightly get in trouble for or like change my flight in Ibiza and go to a boat party, which I also tried to do and got my ass kicked for. So, but if I'm on the road and doing autographs afterwards and there's all girls in the picture or something, I've never ever, and Lindsay's just not even a flicker. She gets it, that's the job is every, you're everyone's friend. If the girls fancy you in the audience, even better. That means another Maldives holiday type thing. That's the way she's in business mode. She is a bit of an entrepreneur, Lindsay. She's got two businesses and she sees my business as a business. And she never ever guilt me over being, I might be away for four nights. I won't, some days I'll go, "Shit, I didn't phone home. I didn't text. I didn't even, now and again, all I have to do is do a good night and she knows that my head might be full. There's never any fallout, never. And that just makes the trust and the bonds. It's just of course that I then do call home. It just works 'cause of that. You're someone that will get a lot of attention because it's, I mean, it's your job, right? It's like to get to holding. - You literally to seek attention is my job. - And women, they love funny guys, right? So, you know, I don't know if this is gonna get in trouble, but you know that you could have a lot of different partners if you wanted to. - I could be harvested in 24/7. - That's what I mean. - I probably would have fractured pelvis by now if I hadn't got married. - People are gonna hate this question 'cause they think I'm encouraging it, but I'm here to play devil's advocate, okay? Why aren't you? - Well, I fell deeply in love and got married and I'm just, again, you go back to the childhood under-vorsed parents. It's just what I modeled on this. I've never had a problem with saying to a girl, the relationship's done, my head's starting to be turned, let's move on. And as much as it breaks my heart, if I ever felt that way, I would, obviously with a marriage and a child, I would sit down to Lindsay and say, "There's an issue here. I've started to have these thoughts. How can we work on it?" And we'd work something out. So that's just my way I operate. Hardly any men do, sorry girls, my sex. - It's gonna be very well. - If only men did, I mean, but they don't. So I'm trying to, a man should go, I haven't done anything, but I'm having these thoughts. What does it mean? Does it mean we're not in love? Does it mean sexual ease? Our relationship's not exciting. Is this something we can do that, some games we can play to mimic that? I don't know whatever. A couple's need to just have that conversation 'cause if you pretend men and women aren't having those thoughts, you're naive, so you need to keep the relationship alive. That's the way to do it. Why am I married? Well, A, 45, remember. And B, I'm more serial monogamous. So I've gone from age 16 to 30 odd. B, with a girl for three years, break up. Get straight with another girl. Literally the next week, break up on anywhere between nine months to three year relationships. Never had a one night stand. I'd never been single. I'd never been on a lad's holiday. So when I split up, split weird, but my mum was like, "You are not gonna find a sustainable relationship because of all these reasons you said. You're gonna get a lot of female attention. You're always gonna wonder what it's like." She went, "I was you, I'd have a year on your own." So I set the clock and I was like, "Ponani master in action." And we're not cynically shagging. That's gonna be the promo clip. But not cynically shagging, but being, it's more to it than just shagging. It was like just living in a flat on your own. But that's banging flat in London. I've still got, I use it as my London residence. And I just thought-- - You've still got it. - Yeah, 'cause you're wife now. - Well, we stayed there all the time. And she's, and I'm like, I can come, I never lived on my own before. Always live with a woman, always live with a girl. And it was just nice. I'd just been my pajamas, I have a curry on. And then I could, or I would just think, I'm gonna go out on the pool after the gig. And that gets boring, quick. And then she's got some sort of issue, like sex edition issue, and you're addicted to lots of different women. I'm not that type of dominant guy. There needs to fuck a thousand women to prove I've walked the earth. I'm more, without getting too personal, I do enjoy, I'm a highly-sexed individual. Very, I'm fortunate for Linda incredibly high sex drive, like a 19 year old lad. But it's sex I enjoy, not conquering women. So I can quench that thirst with one woman over and over again. But I did wanna know what it was like to, you know, to be single, to be free. And part of that, I'm sure it's the same for a woman, for a man, is to go what's it like to have a one night stand, or to be, to be, have this rock style lifestyle and sleep with loads of women. The difference I did it was if I was going out after a gig, or if a girl would DM to me and we were going out or ever, just Miss Tinder. I would say this is where I'm at, this is what I do for a living. I'm single, I do love making love and I love going out, but there is no relationship here. I would never went to bed with a woman dangling any fake carrots ever. I think it's a form of, I don't wanna use language too strongly. There's a sort of consent week in there. If you're in a power position like me, and you're saying, "Let's see where it goes, "but you just wanna fuck her." I think that's wrong. I think it's morally wrong. I think you should say, "This is what it is. "I wanna party with you. "Can you handle it?" And the news flash, most women are looking for that too. So I had a wicked time for a year, and then one of those girls was Lindsay, and that's just something different happened, and we saw each other again and again and again, and then boom, married. - I asked this question, 'cause I was having a conversation with a friend of mine last night, who's an entrepreneur, and he's continually failed in marriage, and we were going back and forward about the importance of meaningful relationships, and I was making the case that they're incredibly important. I sent him a TED talk about, which shows that they did a study on men over, I think, about 100 years, and showed that the men that were in committed relationships lived longer, had way better health, were way happier. They studied men for 100 years. I think it's the only 100 year study they've done of this type. And he was basically saying, "Well, you know, women, they just don't understand "that I'm ambitious and stuff." Well, is he wrong? Is he right? He's statistically true, and also people that believe in God live longer. I'm not a God, I'm totally just for you. I mean, that would be the cup or you weren't expecting that right. - Tell me about Jesus, Stephen. Now, it's people that believe in God live longer. So I think it's not the case that faith keeps you alive or that a relationship keeps you alive. As far as I understand the science, there's a neuroprotective and cardiovascular benefit of doing what we're doing today, just hanging out basically. And the most reliable way to hang out and check in with someone on a regular basis is to have someone you're married to. Are you okay? Take the stress levels down, or even better, get together every Sunday with a bunch of people who actually give a shit about whether you're skinned, whether you've got cans, whether you've got rice left you, who are gonna look out for you. And sadly, in our society, religion is the only thing that forces people on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday, to get together. If you're going mosque every Friday, is it? If you're going mosque once a week and you're praying next to that man next year, he's probably gonna notice if you're down. It's as simple as that. There's nothing magic about marriage, but the homo sapiens, I believe, that our cortisol levels drop and our dopamine levels rise when someone gives a shit about us. It would make sense on an evolutionary level. If you look at the way chimps are, that when one of them gets excluded from the group 'cause they have a fight and they're going, you see them on the documentary, they're like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." The sentence is, "They never live long." Because why would you? Where is the evolutionary drive of your genes to pass seeds and eggs on if you're the type of person who can't bring the pack forward? So there would be a strong evolutionary argument for single people to die before attached people, for non-religious people to die before atheists. So atheists like us have to make sure we really have strong friendship groups. And I wish, wish, wish we could get humanism off the ground. Every Sunday, there's readings, there's your local Richard Dawkins is doing a science reading. We all have a bit of T and K, our kids all play together and then we all go, "Wouldn't that be amazing? Why doesn't it exist?" It's so true. It would solve a lot of problems. 'Cause we pick up, if you were depressed, I'd pick up on it if I was seeing you every week. Everything you've said is backed by everything I've studied. And I've read a chapter in my book called "The Journey Back to Human" which describes this. It was inspired a lot by Johanna Hari. You wrote Lost Connection. Yes, I know you. And about getting back to our tribes. And when you look at the way we're living our lives today, it's just the antithesis of human. And religion and relationship is the only way you can keep those human elements in. So far as your friends who keep having failed marriages, marriages fail for lots of different reasons. So for men who keep getting to three-year relationships and splitting up, if it's the same reason every time. If the eye is roving and he just wants to fuck other women. I mean, we need to speak about this in real language that men use, sorry if you find it offensive, switch off. But a lot of the time a man gets two, three years in and obviously wears off and he's like, "What's it gonna be like?" "I wanna fuck a different woman." So the cost as well, the resistance or the uncomfortable parts of the relationship remain. But the upside decreases. If it's sex, a lot of men. So I feel so sorry for girls that, but why did my men shoot? What was it I wasn't doing? It's hard to face the fact that some men, maybe 60, 70% of men who split up with you, just wanna shag someone else. It's hard. Let's just put on so I'm sure many women, but I don't speak for women. So I'm not being sexist. I'm just not speaking for women. Let's get a woman on here. Ask her why she splits up with someone every three. So you need to, if you're a man that has those urges, you need to find a woman that you can work with that can keep you sexually excited and do whatever you need to do. Just you've got to do it. And you need a woman you can talk about those things with. And a lot of it can be role playing, the dirty talk, verbal fantasy, whatever it is. These are practical tips. Lot of couples never cross these boundaries 'cause they're too shy. She split up with someone 'cause you wanted to get dressed up as a policeman and potentially with someone else and you were too cringed to tell her. But that could have been the thing that converted it. It could be as simple as going to a club separately, dancing with other people then going home together in the night. Have you tried, until you have that conversation as a couple and admit you're having those thoughts, you will split up or worse, cheat and ruin that woman's life and ruin her faith in men. Or if you're, I'm sure it's exactly the same if you're a gay man as well. You're ruined that boy you've split up if you're in his life. So far as why women split up with men, who knows? And that's not for me to say, but I do think a lot of the times we're reluctant to admit it's such a basic sexual reason. I suspect it is the case and we'll make any of it. I just felt bored, we've grown apart. I suppose it will say any old shit just to not admit, I like looking at girls on Instagram, I wanna go on holiday on my own. - It's a tough conversation to have, right? Because it feels like an attack on-- - But you build it in as fun. You'll be like three years in, I'm gonna be straight with you, I really, really love you. As long as you love it, if you don't love a girl, just tell her, you definitely need to split up. But if you love her, but have a sexual urgent, that is resolvable. - Guys, I think, quite often, hoochie. And this is a presumption, I don't know the truth. They will take the path of least resistance. So they look over at their partner and they think, if I have this conversation, this is gonna blow up and she's gonna scream in my face, I think I can just go and grab that apple without resistance. So they just reach out for the apple because that conversation feels like more psychological discomfort than-- - I just don't go shagging other people to end your relationship. - We all do that, they literally cheat to end the relationship. - We've all had moments, I have in past relationships where I've found myself in a bar contemplating it, talking to a girl, and as soon as that happens, I know. Either I don't love this girl or something's going wrong in the bedroom.


Biohacking (01:15:32)

It's normally one of those things. - Can you love someone and shoot? - Is that the type of question you'd ask me? - Probably, yes. - Yeah, you think so? - Probably. In the same way, I can adore my daughter and would die for her, but would I go and work on a project for a month with no phone contact at a pivotal devept point of her life? Yes, I could, 'cause I can compartmentalize. I imagine women are exactly the same. In fact, I suspect a woman can be profoundly in love with a man who's not giving a attention or a technical special or sexually exciting her and she can have sex with someone else, feel awful and still profoundly love her husband. - One of the things you said is you said you were 45, 46, in August, I of course, were always maybe. - Always, baby. - Not long. - You look about 31. Like if you told me you were 31, 32, I'd probably believe you. - Yeah. - How have you done that? - So first of all, it's got me into trouble because what happened was when I started doing all this biohacking and stuff like that. - What's biohacking? - It's where you're using the current science available to try and hack your own biology to survive unless sleep in a way that doesn't damage your health. For example, I've not cracked that one to not lose your hair working on that one or to slow down the aging process. So not so that you can live to 120, not that, it's a common misconception, but that so you can have the bit of your life between 30 and 70 in a more sustained, younger state. That's what you're trying to do. You're trying to have better middle-age years, not be 120-year-old. What you'd like to be is 120-year-old is like an 80-year-old now. What you're trying to do is stretch. Particularly, I did my first gig at 28. So I quickly realized I need to find some solutions here 'cause I'm high-energy, Lee Evans Act. I talk about my mom, my dad. I'm a late bloomer. I would end up having a wife much younger than me. I need to have the body of a 30-year-old man quick. So I started studying. I mean, I was 30 at the time, but you know what I mean, I need to keep it here. So the trouble it got me into is when this stuff started to work dramatically work, I would sit down in interviews like this with journalists and people would go, "How old are you, Russell?" And I was, "Oh, guess, trying to get a compliment." And they would all, they started to guess four years younger, five years younger, then 10 years younger, then 15 years younger like you have today. And I thought, "This is showbiz, fuck that. "I'm gonna knock a few years off." 'Cause the one prejudice people are still allowed to have, not book you 'cause you're old, can't wait 'til old life matters starts 'cause I'm gonna be fucking behind. No, but seriously, why can we, why is it okay to make redundant and underpay and exclude people based on their chronological age? But that prejudice alive and well. So I thought, I lied, I lied my ass off. And of course I was really un-sophisticated about it. I was like celebrating my real birthday with comedians and friends and then lying to the observer or the mirror. - How much did you lie by? - Five years. - Oh, not bad. I forgive you. But so that was a story, that was a tabloid story in two newspapers and a light jokes were made on TV, a comedy award ceremony. So I was quite mocked for it. So I was a comedian, M&M style. I took that, wrote a show about it called Right Man Wrong Age, took it on to own it, no one said a word since. And now I talk about it all the time. I think it's quite funny really. It's quite human. I mean, what the fuck? If I don't know what, whatever the thing is in your profession, maybe. - It's age as well. Been age for me. When I was 18, everyone wrote about me because I'd made 100 pounds when I was 18 and I realized that in my industry, your age and the achievement are the most important things. So if I was 18 and I had made 100 quid, they had me on BBC. This 18 year old's made 100 quid. And I realized that by, when I get to 25, I actually need to have made about 100 million for them to consider me the same way. So I'm like super slowly changing my birthday every year. I'm like, oh 27, I'm like, I need to be a billionaire. - Yeah, right. So, but from a business sense, it might be exaggerating turnover to seek investment, then revealing real turnover afterwards. But say, okay, we all are winnilyness anyway, that type of thing. So I was exaggerating turnover to attract investment. But I didn't realize it was a massive issue because people come to stand up comedians for authenticity and realness, particularly my type of stand up. So anyway, I owned that, chucked it back. That's all good. How I've done it is just, there's loads of places you can go to. I started with Dave Asprey and Bulletproof and all of those things, although I do think drinking butter is way over the top. But it's sort of moving towards a lower carb, not keto, nothing extreme. I don't believe in anything extreme that's hard to stick to. But certainly, I don't believe we're supposed to be white bread and cereal and shit like that. Working with what we're built to do would be the most basic way that spending money anyone that's watching this can start. We woke up on the savannah this morning, you and I, it's time to go hunting. There ain't gonna be food there. We probably would have eaten at 2pm. No doubt about it. Human beings are built to have anywhere between 16 hour to two day fasting gaps. No doubt about it. And sure enough, now we look at this on a cellular level, we can see what happens. So I ate at last night, I worked very late, so I didn't eat till nearly 11pm. By now, as I'm speaking to you, not only do I have an intense fucking focused high from only having had coffee and water, which has got to be a good thing, there's autofecy going on in my cells. So the cells are eating up their own bits of dead protein and shit, just out of shit desperation for something to eat. That's the first thing that happens. Apoptosis is the proper name for it. The cells that, the shit ones just die and burn off like the crust at the edge. If you pour food on the edge of that situation, as far as I understand the science, I'm sure people will refine what I'm saying. I'm trying to distill what I've learnt for the layman. You keep all that crap in. So unfortunately, we're pro, fasting is brilliant. I don't buy into many fads, but the science here, you can see it under a microscope. So intermittent fasting, an eating lower carb is something anyone can do. Someone on 10 grand a year can do that tomorrow. So eat more, let's leave your green vegetables. - I think if you're on 10 grand either, you are probably in 10 grand. - Yeah, exactly. - So eat more leafy green vegetables. Breakfast is, I think the easiest one to skip because you produce a hormone in the night that suppresses appetite anyway, otherwise you'd wake up hungry all night. If you are waking up hungry, your diets fuck, change it. So you don't, I won't wake up hungry. So we're brought up to wake up not hungry and eat a bowl of cocoa pops, and then boom, the insulin goes up. Insulin, you don't want your insulin high, and the only way to do that is sugar and carbohydrate. So lower your carbohydrate, 100, 120 gram net a day. Anyone can do that. It's still rice, if you like bread, eat bread, eat whole meal bread. That's the two most basic things you can do now. So far as the more intense chemicals, I can tell you what I'm on, I would take phytasein in the morning, which is a synolytic activator, something that stops cell decrease and synescence, like aging in cells. Once a week I will probably also take another synolytic activator, a chlorogein's called. I take PQQ every morning, that's the little pink one. I do take NMN, which is really expensive, but the life force in the cells that keep us going is called NAD, N-A-D, and that's what causes aging. Aging is not inevitable, it's your cells, where we're a combination of digital and analog information, so every time you rewrite a cell, it gets rewritten a little bit less well, and then you get wrinkles and gray here, and you start forgetting and you die. So if you can help the cells be more accurate in writing, you can stay younger, not just in how you look, but generally. So I do take NMN every day, that's the big one. And that is in the precursor to creating NAD in the body. And I mean, I have no Botox, I have no filler in my face. I do use stuff from boots and moisturizer, and I do go for like a posh facial now and again, but there's nothing artificial in my skin. - This is a great moment to cut to my podcast sponsor, NMN. - Well, NMN's the drug loads of people make it. - Okay. - If you're looking for a good one in the UK, go on Amazon, I think it's double wood, is good. It's expensive though, man, you're looking at six pounds a day. Ooh, for a suck. - Expensive, yeah. - Like six pounds a day. But if you're spending, if you're lucky enough to be spending that on a coffee, take a flask by NMN instead. I bought my own coffee today. So what I will do is, my pet hay is watching a video like this, listen to Botox, and people not listing grams and brands afterwards. And all the top guys, David Sinclair's the guy you wanna read by the way. If you read one book, it will change your life. It's why we age and why we don't have to. David Sinclair, he does all the science, but he always refuses to give like geeky levels of endorsement what I take 'cause he's inbox always crashes. So what I will do is I will send you exactly why I take on a daily basis. You need to check with your physician, and you need to make sure everything's right for you, obviously. But NMN is definitely the one that encourages NAD production and helps the sales copy themselves and slow down aging. Resveratrol, very, very, very important. So I take 750 milligrams of NMN, and I take a gram of resveratrol every morning. Don't go on Amazon and buy resveratrol, the brown stuff. You need transveratrol, the ultra refined stuff, you need a gram of it a day. Viter fair is a good brand. - What about hair? - Hair, they've still not-- - It's time to get grazed. - Yeah, they've still not solved why we go gray. Or because baldness is a genetic program that's running, like your height, it's harder to hack. It's to do with the testosterone hormone, DHD that kicks in, DHT that kicks in. So your body after a while, and the way it synthesizes testosterone in the scalp causes the follicles to die and fall off. The only way to do that is to block DHT, if you're a man, it's a double edged sword, because if you start messing with your testosterone, you can lower your sex drive, lower your aggression. I need lots of aggression in what I do when I go on stage and for exercise and things. So I don't take things like finisteride, which we know works, because I'd rather be Jason Statham, like Baldon Horny, than have loads of hair in a eunuch. That said, I am losing my hair at the crown. I have been for about two years. The reason you can't see it today as much as you could two years ago, I am using a derma roller. You can buy these cheaply on Amazon. Make sure you buy one with individual titanium spikes. If it's boasting, hundreds of titanium spikes, it's a shite one. It means they've got a rolled out bit of titanium. You want one, if it's plastic, you'll be about 190, 200 spikes titanium, and you'll be able to see each individual spike, 0.5 millimeter. Once a day, roll, roll, roll. It's a little bit painful, roll, roll, roll, roll, at the temples here. And then you would put on minoxidil, 15% ideally. Dubogen's a good one. Again, very expensive. You're looking at 30, 40 quid a month, but it works. - Does it start to get a first of all, little pube grey hairs, and it just holds the wolf. So you're not bald. You don't have like 17 year old hair. As you can see, I am not bald. And that's all I do. The roller is about, oh no, the roller's about a tenor. The minoxidil is expensive, but you can get it down to about 30 pounds a month, but don't go below 15%. And if you really want to do built on braces, how you shampoo is important, get a really good caffeine shampoo, like Alpascint. And you want a brush like, it's like a round, really cheap round plastic brush with the plastic bristles, like boys would have gelled their hair with back in the day. One of those and when the shower really scrub that shampoo in and leave it for five minutes. So if you shave or you brush your teeth, go and have your toothbrush and your shave while the foam's there and then shower it out. - How did you get into all of this? Was it that book? - No, no, no, that's, I've just researched myself, the optimal methods of hair regrowth. But for biohacking, I've used David Perlmutter, the doctor, cardiovascular doctor about heart health and cholesterol and trying to learn the safety of going higher fat. I used Dave Asbury for a lot of the supplements, your PQQ and things like that. And all the knowledge about high fat and biohacking and sleep and all that. And I used David Sinclair for the real, real hardcore science on life extension. It's a brilliant book. It's just about accessible for the main reader, but if you get into it, you'll love it. There's loads of stuff in there I don't do, like the cold showers and things like that. - The cold showers, tell me about that. I've heard about this, but I just don't have the guts every day, if it just feels like it will be in my day. - The most controversial thing about what I've said is I'm not recommending people go low carb, I'm just saying it's what I do. You might come from Australasia and you might have different genetics that mean if you eat a high fat diet, it's incredibly dangerous. Check what your doctor recommends. Go and do your own research. Go to Atlas BioMed where you can get your own biome sequence by sending a bit of poo through the post, it's fascinating. And they send back your whole internal microbiome. Get your cholesterol tested three months in, six months in, see what it's doing. My cholesterol, of course, is off the fucking charts, but so is my HDL cholesterol, meaning my cholesterol ratio is good. Do I have plaques in my arteries? Yes, I do, I've run a CT scan. So you could need to take your own call on that. I mean, if you're a student and you get hit by a car and you're 18 years old and we do an autopsy, you will have plaque in your arteries. Babies have plaque in their arteries.


Discussion On Cancel Culture

Cancel culture (01:29:52)

We all have plaque in their arteries. I remain to be convinced that the fact I have cholesterol running around my blood actually is the thing that makes the plaque cholesterol. That I'm in a minority, I'm not medically trained, I could be talking shit and I could be in a coffin when I'm 60, but I'm fascinated by it. I'm a layman, I'm on a journey. You do your own reading, the NHS recommendation certainly isn't a EI fat, but I just don't buy the science. It stinks to me. And plus, I just, I'm going on how I feel. Sure, yeah, it's probably the most important way. Your podcast, you have a podcast which talks a lot about cancer culture. Yes. What's going on in our society at the moment in terms of cancer culture? It seems to be getting much more, maybe because of algorithms and we're creating these echo chambers and we're defining this side is left and this is right and there's nothing in the middle. But what's going on within society? And I guess the question I'm going to come to eventually is how do we fix it and can we fix it? Or are we fucked? I think we're probably a little bit fucked for the time being because after loads of historic injustice and inequality and I hate the word woke, I almost don't want to be woke because it's such a comfy word. I just think waking up to things you've not seen before. The word woke has become politicised, so I reject it as a term. But we need to swing the barometer a little bit this way until everyone's being represented properly. Then it will settle probably in our children's generation. It will settle. So stop panicking Gary Divelli and everyone with a union jack profile. It will settle. What I find frustrating and toxic is we're living in a culture where you can be cancelled overnight at Middleton, cancelled overnight, Sharon Osborne, cancelled overnight. It doesn't matter who you are, what your background is, what colour, what gender you are, you are at risk. No one is safe, trust me. Especially white men. Well, anyone really. I remember, I don't even know if I want to put it back out there, but no reggates of it. He said something about Jewish music producers. Yeah, yeah, I remember, yeah. Just about survived that. So I don't think anyone, I think it's probably worse if you're of colour because the right will be ready. They'll be fucking ready. See, I can see. So I would actually say no, I would say. I think everyone's at risk from this. It's a rabid, all we got one of them, particularly a lefty and cancelled them. How can we live in a culture of instant, I'm black, I'm sorry, I shouldn't say black and white afterwards, but instant black and white canceling, where you can wake up in the morning and be gone, that at the same time exists alongside how they use a label. Nothing has meaning. We're in a postmodern world of a morpheus fog where we don't even have pronouns. Nothing's real, history's not real. The things you've learned aren't real. Literature isn't literature. Nothing has a label. No, you're cancelled and I'm sure. What? Well, which is it? Are we in a postmodern? Nothing means anything. Everything's up for grabs, shifting, meaning, diverse culture, which sounds quite exciting to me. As a comedian, where are we in? A Nazi Germany executed the next morning. Both of those two together, head fuck. I have this tweet saved in my drafts on Twitter and it says, and I didn't tweet it because I didn't have the nuts. Because I was like low keeping cancelled to something I said at the time, so I thought, I'll just stagger this one out. But it says the left will allow you to be non-binary in everything but your opinion. Right. And it's kind of what you're saying there. It's like we've got to the point where we understand things aren't binary, right? In sexuality and other points. But my opinion has to be. Like if the stance I take on Black Lives Matter doesn't perfectly, I don't look like I'm wearing, like as I said in the last podcast with Anne, the football kit shoes socks shirt, then I am definitely of the right and I should be treated as such. And I had it quite recently with the Sarah Everett tragedy because I made the point that the narrative, and this is this key sentence that I just, social media just didn't allow me to express, which narrative is most helpful and productive in creating the shift we need to see in male behavior. Which narrative, is it the narrative that, which I saw a lot of, which is it's all men, all men, are the problem, is that the narrative which is most helpful and productive. And so the conversation I was trying to have is. The real politic, what works in the real world. I'm not saying there's not a fucking problem with men or they're not pigs or there's not like the patriarchy or there's not massaging. The stats say that, I'm not the stats, the stats say 97% of young women have experienced some form of sexual abuse or harassment. My point is about which narrative is most productive and helpful. - You're a businessman, you're like, which model can we employ to get the best profit? - Yeah, 'cause I reflect, I say, well when Tommy Robinson ran around saying, okay, it's not all Muslims, but it's always Muslims that are blowing up buildings or whatever, we would run them out of town because that's a deeply toxic way to think, right? And it's the same with black people, like we get locked up more. So asserting that it's not all black people, but it's some black people, therefore the fear is all black people. The way that I got to in my logic, I was like, I have two nieces who are gonna go into the world who I love dearly. What would I say to them, they're four years old and three years old, what advice would I say to them to help them, A, guard against predatory male behavior, but also to help them in their life be productive and to work with 50% of the population. It definitely wouldn't be LSE, right, sit down. You're gonna have to fear all men. That some of them, the threat LSE is my niece, is all men. That's not for me, wouldn't be a... Imagine the damage I would do to my niece. - I mean, I want to say you've put it brilliantly. - I got finished off. I got finished so badly on Instagram. I was fucking, are they finished to me? - It's because part of the problem is having a discussion like this when a girl has just died. - If you and I have this at university in two years time, it's quite an interesting, it's a very interesting conversation that needs to be had. So I did do a stand up response to it. I did a one minute thing, but I waited 10 days. - Smart. - I waited 10 days and then I did a rant about why do we teach sex education so late? Why do we teach consent so late? And I just made fun of the British education system not speaking to teenagers about sex enough 'cause I think that's what the issue is. We don't teach our, all boys, whether they're predatory boys or not, men aren't taught about sex early enough. From angels, sex offenders, they should be taught in primary school. - Not from porn. - No, exactly. That's where the problem is. But yeah, so I think sometimes having to try and have a, I do actually disagree slightly with one thing she said, right at the top, which was when you said, I need to have a binary opinion, but not have a binary sexuality because I do think, no, you can have a non-binary opinion. We could be talking about Jane Austen and literature and we can say, yeah, but I can't think of a subject you and I can have a conversation on where fashionable postmodernism, nothing means anything doesn't apply. - On a major issue, Black Lives Matter? - Yeah, we could talk about, now we're not gonna say whether Black Lives Matter or not, but we could have a discussion about what does race exist on a genetic level, we proved that it doesn't. So what is race? We could chat and everyone could leave the lecture again. I don't know what to think. - In a lecture or face to face. - Or we could broadcast it now. Talk about race. - 100%. - Talk about does race exist. - And this is why I love podcasts because you get context and nuance. 108 characters in the middle of the Black Lives Matter. Russell, why haven't you posted the Black tile? You can't go, well, does race exist. People will go, "Racist, silence is violence." - But you could still, but what I mean is we can be post-modern, fluffy and not say anything, almost about anything, but we still be canceled at the same time. Now those two things are both quite extreme. I mean, they're opposites. And that's making clothes, clothes down debate and hamstrung people. I like my offensive people where I can hear them. I don't like them on WhatsApp groups hidden. I was never against Nick Griffin of the BNP going on question time. I don't mind putting that out there. A lot of people say, "You put him on there, "you legitimize his views." What actually happened? He looked like a total cock and now he's disappeared. Have the courage to know, I do think there is good and bad. I don't think right-wing people are bad, left-wing people are good. In fact, I think it's just as many cocks across the spectrum. I do think violence and hatred is bad, full stop, sorry I do. It's a moral, absolute moral category. I would rather see the people who think it, have their arguments exposed. The biggest experiment we've ever seen is Donald Trump. Yeah. Where the fuck, you know, it's fucking just fell apart because most people saw he was a cock regardless of what he'll tell you. You probably won't see someone like him for a long while now. But you was right and that's sort of right-wing sentiment. It rose around the world at the same time, like Bolsonaro even here in Europe. All at the same time, and it almost feels like now it's falling a little bit away. I don't like chastity belts and gagging and things and that when they were like, "Donald Trump's coming, "we won't give him a state visit," nonsense. I want red carpet, I want streets lined, and let him hear what we think. Let him see the way British people show they're unhappy. Don't sort of all muttering Chitikos and send memes like in Chordich. Fuck, let's go out there. Let's, let's, let's, let's, where's our prank? Does where Simon Brodkin doing a stunt on him? You know, have the courage of your arguments. The goodies always win in films and they will win on the earth. I believe that I'm an optimist. Should anybody be canceled? Deep platform to chuck talk, immediately thrown out. - Not in haste. That's why I make evil genius. It's a slow weighing up over the hour. We take the good and the bad and we have an intellectual discussion and it's very tongue-in-geek and funny, but it's a long discussion about the people's merits. It's interesting as well, the elite is a m of it as well. Why are Picasso's paintings still hanging? Why? The guy was a great, a-nonsense and misogynist. Why are his paintings still up? Because it's so lofty and important. We can't quite bring ourselves to cancel it. I mean, I don't know if, do we go here? I mean, I don't know what I think in that Michael Jackson documentary anyway, but it's almost like Michael Jackson's so powerful and musically important that we dare not go there. So there comes to a stage where we're not willing, you know, someone's sort of canceled proof. I mean, if you're really, really controversial, look at the Old Testament, it did some vile fucking things. Stoning people, like flooding people with fire, burning gaze. How has he not been canceled, Old School God? Too powerful. That's interesting. I've never actually considered that some people are too. Michael Jackson's a very good example because... I don't want to give it. I might as well if I was going to be empty. I might just go over bump and grind being deleted. All right, do you know what it's funny? 'Cause I was actually thinking about Michael Jackson this week, 'cause they just absolutely adore the art and have it, the thought of having to separate the artist from the art and that the artist could have been such a horrible predator. It really is something that helps, you know. - The useful rule of thumb I've found is the closer the art is to the predation and the nature of the predation, the more problematic it is. So I find Picasso very problematic because everything I'm looking at in the studio is in a gallery is possibly a teenage girl's body. I find Michael Jackson problematic because when he's talking about love and I want to be close to you and I want to touch this and that, what's he singing about? What am I dancing to? - Yeah. - If someone writes beautiful romantic novels, but they like harming animals in private, less problematic, because when I'm reading the novel, I'm not absorbing animal harm. - Sure. - Am I absorbing Peter Filia? If the song is... Who's are Kelly singing about? Bumble grind with whom? - An underage, do you see what I mean? - Yeah. - So what's next for you? What are you working on? What's the next chapter of your life all about as far as your concerned? - Well, as well as just doing TV all the time, horing it up on any show that will have me, which I've been doing since I started, it's about the theaters reopening. For now, outdoor social distance performance. So I'll be finding as many spaces where I can put a marquee over vented at the side just to get back out there and stay sharp. I am working on a novel, I always am, I'm working on a sitcom, I always am and I'm developing formats. I always am, I'm always hustling, always trying, I'm yet to get that format away where I own it and it's my IP. I have with Evil Genius, I have made a TV pilot of that with BBC Studios. I would love to sell that because I think that would work globally as a format. - Very timely as well. - I have got my eye on things like that as well, but mostly it's, how can I get in front of people and make them laugh because that's what I wanna do? - Well, you certainly are very good at that. It's a talent that you have that I'm like positively jealous of, like just your natural ability to make people feel comfortable and to laugh. It's a real, I feel the same with you starting to have a million power businesses. - I wish I had that, I feel like I would have been more successful if I had that business. - I tried to keep on you and my wife if I keep revving you. - No, no, no, no deal. Thank you for coming today, won't you? - No, thank you so much, it's been a real pleasure and I don't think people realize how much you're fucking intellectual you are. My first clue was all those books you had behind you on your Zoom background when I did your podcast, but I dug my way out the ghetto with books. - You're so fucking smart and I don't think people realize that. I think you're a comedian, you're much more than a comedian, you're fucking genius at the same time. - It doesn't pay to look too smart when you're a comic. - True, I'm great. - I love Radio 4 but I wanna be on ITV1 as well. I disrespect I see it. - Listen, thank you so much for your time today and people know where they can find you but your podcast, Evil Genius is immense and it's very timely and needed in our society. So thank you for doing that. - And I am trying to squeeze out stand up on channel four during the day. So if you ever at home or you've got a day off Steph's pack lunch twice a week, I'm on there doing that. I never thought I'd do days and tell you what, I fucking love it and I do stand up at 1pm. - Well I'd need to that too right now. Thank you so much Russell, appreciate it. Thank you.


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