Trinny Woodall: How She Went From Drug Addict To $300m Business Empire! | Transcription
Transcription for the video titled "Trinny Woodall: How She Went From Drug Addict To $300m Business Empire!".
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I look at your skin and I'm going to come over now. Oh no. Oh. Then I go around here. Training wood all. Beauty, coin of the screen. Founder and CEO of Trinity London. One of the fastest growing companies in Europe. Have a great day. I went through phases in my early 20s of not knowing who I was and turning to drugs. I went to rehab. How'd that you'd been kicked out of the first time for playing a porn video? Yeah. Backfired. Rehab was a huge beginning of the change in my life. And I went into a whole new world. Following a 20-year career in media. Training took a left turn in the makeup industry. Here we are, $250 million, Lisa. Welcome to Trinity London. A lot of people have a stigma that you can't start. A business at 53. Crap. Are you just a just a number? But you need energy, passion, perseverance. I sold my house hardly earning any money. But I thought I'm never going to give up. Ask yourself, how much do you want to be successful? What are you prepared to give up? You strike me as something that's incredibly driven. What's the cost? Very big question. Probably oddly. You had a partner who was unwell. Yeah. And the thing you think will never happen happens. He died by suicide. Yeah. Where do you get to in your brain when you are so worried about your children that you can convince yourself that the best thing is that you're not in their life anymore? Was it anything I could have done to stop it? I think this is fascinating. I looked at the back end of our YouTube channel. It says that since this channel started, 69.9% of you that watch it frequently haven't yet hit the subscribe button. So I have a favor to ask you. If you've ever watched this channel and enjoyed the content, if you're enjoying this episode right now, please can I ask a small favor? Please hit the subscribe button. It helps this channel more than I can explain. And I promise if you do that, to return the favor, we will make the show better and better and better and better and better.
Trinny Woodall'S Life Journey And Career
What Made Trinny Woodall (01:58)
That's the promise I'm willing to make you if you hit the subscribe button. Do we have a deal? Trini, you've got a very um, distinct personality. Yeah. And you know that, you're well aware of that, right? I know who I am. But your personality is very, you're very straightforward. Yeah. Um, and all of these sort of defining traits of your personality. And I'm wondering if that was when that personality was formed or when it started to emerge. Things happen in your life that, that begin to, you know, fine-tune and define who you're going to be. And I went definitely through phases. You know, I went through phases in my late teens and early twenties of, of turning to drugs just to not being happy with who I was. Not, not feeling, not knowing who I was. Sometimes people turn to drugs because they just don't know who they are. And they want to, you know, they have an inner lack of confidence. And I definitely had an inner lack of confidence. And outwardly when I talk to people and I look back at the time, they might say, you just were this very mesmerizing person. And I just remember that internal sense of feeling so lost, so profoundly lost. And so when I got clean at 26, 27, that was a huge beginning of the change in my life. I was so relieved that my twenties were over, so relieved. Because it, you know, it was like, that was the beginning of that. That's, whoo, watch that away.
Starting Drugs at 16, My Addiction, and Going to Rehab (03:44)
And that was a big moment for me to begin to work out who I was. That was the first moment, probably. You're using drugs at 16. I presume was quite a recreational thing. Yeah. I think we all dabbled at that age. When did you realize that it wasn't a recreational thing anymore? And that it was an addiction? I think I was about 22 and I felt my life didn't have direction. And my family were very frustrated with me. They felt I'd changed. And like any family where they have a child who has addiction, they can, if they don't know, they just see change and they think, why is my child changing? You know? So I think they saw that. And it was a relief to say, you know, I use drugs. And I remember my dad said, well, now you've told me you can stop. And I remember my brother saying, I think it might be harder than that. So I went to rehab and I then left the rehab after a period of time and left the rehab or you could. No, I was kicked out of the first rehab, but I then went to meetings. And this one thing about recovery is that when you first get in recovery, you need to let go of your old friends who you've been with, who are using. And you're about to make new friends. So that moment is loneliness can take you back to Old habit. After about, I don't know, maybe six months, I missed my old friends and I hadn't made enough new ones and I saw them and then, you know, I relapsed. And then I went back to meetings and then you're in this horrible little in between place. When you know about recovery and you continue to use, it's not so. There's something about an ignorance of recovery. You know, there's a kind of sense that you don't know there's another way. So you don't feel guilty every time you do. And so what it brings is it brings guilt every single time. I had three really, really good friends and we were all using one night and I said, let's all make a pack. We'll go to rehab tomorrow. And two of them had been and one of them had never been, but we made this pact. Late night, you know, that thing, we're going to do this. We're going to conquer the world and we're going to go to rehab. So then the next morning, I woke up and I still had that feeling. Which is rare. So I called a therapist that I knew and I said, I need to go, but I have a window of opportunity, which is so small. I need to go literally in the next two hours because I am scared myself that I'll change my mind. So he got me in somewhere and stayed there for five months and I sold what I had to pay for it. Some very tragic thing happens in that time. And one of the people died and then. One of the people that said they're going to rehab with you. Yeah. And then I went to a halfway house in Western supermeaf for seven months where you kind of live off eight to 10 pounds a week, which pays for your fags and I worked at No People's Home. And then I came back to London, a very different person. And then in that following year, another one was going to die. And then by the end of two years, they'd all died. So I think I always had this feeling, whatever I might do, you know, I might do many things again, but I will not take drugs again. And you do that in recovery, you do it a day at a time. And since that day, I have never taken a drug again. And that was that big, that's probably that biggest shift I had at that age to really think, now I have the second chance. What do I actually want to do with my life? You know, what, not what I feel other people expect me to do. If I was a flower in the wall in your life, at your, when the addiction had you the most, what would I have seen? You wouldn't have seen anything that I was feeling inside. Because that's what I was very good at. So, outwardly, you would kind of think, you know, I worked in the city, I was trading commodities, I was, I held down a job. You know, you would see this person who seemed to be running around doing a lot of stuff. You would see that. Yeah. So mine wasn't jacking up in the street, not being able to function on a daily basis. But it was one where appearances were so important compared to, you know, so that matching your inside to your outside is probably my biggest journey, you know, of how can I, what I feel inside is how I share with, you know, and you know, I am 59. And that's where I've got to. I have a lot more to do, but I, it took me a journey to get to a place where I feel very comfortable in that feeling and in that belief.
Impostor Syndrome: Projecting a Wrong Self to the World (09:01)
Matching the inside with the outside. So the outside, I would have seen someone who was very busy and apparently, you know, professionally successful in the city. Not feeling it, but sort of acting it. You know that. I mean, my God, we know that one. And then make the CV acted, you know, be kind of big up the job that was actually smaller than it was. All of that shit. And then on the inside. Feeling feeling. You know, I hate to say the word because I hate, I hate labels. Imposter syndrome is the worst. Can I just say it's the worst label? It's worst label ever because it, what it denotes is that you are an imposter. Um, for how it's used for now. So to me, imposter syndrome is more that you haven't yet learned enough. And if you learn something, you won't feel so much of an imposter. This is what imposter syndrome is. What I'm referring to. It's that feeling where you are so different on the inside from what you project on the outside, that you are an imposter inside your own body. And that to me is what I think imposter syndrome is. What's the, what's the cost of that? That at some stage, you can't keep doing it and you have something has to give. And something always has to give and it's whether you, it's which path you're going to take, you know, because there'll be a lot of people listening now that are in a job or a situation where they, they have that feeling, that niggling feeling, that we're in the wrong place. Yeah. They might be held there by social groups or expectation from their parents or whatever it might be, but some things holding them there. Yeah. Maybe fear of uncertainty. I would say if somebody is listening to this and they're thinking, do I have little bits, just ask yourself, you know, do you love what you do? The job you're in, if we're talking about what do you love what you do? Do you like this environment of where you work? Do you feel people make a better contribution than you? You know, is that's what's making you feel insecure? If so, what do you feel when people have meetings that you don't know? Go and fucking learn it. Go and learn it. Go and listen to podcasts. Go read some books. Just learn it because knowledge is powerful. And when you have knowledge in your walk in a room, you automatically think I have so much more to contribute. If I answer one of those, I challenge myself and I go, I don't like where I'm working and I don't like it. Yeah. And I'm, you know, a commodities trader in the city, for example, and I just hate it. Yeah. Leave it, but have a plan. But leave it. Like if you hate what you do, we spent 16 hours a day between commuting or if you're in a higher position thinking about the company. Working, we spend much more of a day working than sleeping. So you've got to love it. You've got to love it. You know, I was like, in my early 20s, I was one woman, 64 men on a trading floor. And I hated it and I dressed in men's clothing and I went to Rosetti and got the men's shoes. And I got the tailor to make me a suit. All the man would drop that trousers on the trading floor. But I'd go in the ladies' drum and get, you know, I'd pretend to have a deep voice. I was on the phone selling Anglo American fun. So my client thought I was a man. I mean, you know, I did all this stuff. I hated it so much, Stephen. And I would go, I would take the tube to Tower Hill. We were at the World Trade Center in London. I'd have financial times on the outside and the Daily Mail on the inside.
Got Kicked Out of Rehab (12:37)
That was my full extent of who I was. And, you know, I loved it. Were you an attention seeker more generally in life? Because when I heard that you'd been kicked out of rehab the first time for playing a porn video, I thought that was a funny one, but not funny in the end. It was a terrible rehab. I was with somebody to last night in New York. And we were going to this funeral as this friend of mine who was like 43 years sober. And I discovered I'd been to the same place with her. And... - Rehab, same rehab. - Yeah. But at different times. And she just said, you know, it was the most fundamentally shaming place ever. You know, rehab now are very different, but it was a very, very shaming place. And... It would be closed down now. It wasn't. It didn't have a good way of dealing with things. So in that whole scenario. There was definitely that feeling that you're thrown in with people you don't know. And you reveal your life. And it was a time when you would write down your life story and then in rehabs nowadays, because I visit friends in them or whatever, you would kind of people help you navigate why you did things in your life. But in this one, they did this stuff where they would get 20 people to critique how bad your life had been in a room and judge you for it. And it was, I'm just like looking back on it now at the time, that was the only way recovery work in rehabs in the UK. But it was just, it was kind of fucking appalling. And she reminded me last night. So when you bring up the thing of that porno film, and I think it was that sense of, let me just do something that people will find funny because we're having such a shitty time here. And it backfired. And it was just, you know, I was chucked out. - What I haven't been able to pinpoint is that, because at least from the outside, looking in your life was, you know, you had a great job. You had this addiction, which didn't seem to interfere with your work. So, you know, when I sit here with someone like Macklemore or Russell Brand, or even I remember speaking to Steve, they talk about their addictions and, you know, he was on a four, five day heroin binge and he drove a car, he said he was going to, he drove a car through a house and then he was threatening to jump out the window when, you know, he ultimately ended up in rehab. But it didn't seem, I can't identify the symptoms that drove you to go, I can't do this anymore. - I think we have, everyone has a different story, externally, of I did this and I did this. And there's a bit of, I did even more than you, you know, there's this whole thing in, that, you know, addicts maximize their using and alcoholics minimize their drinking. All right. And that's why alcoholics can take longer to get into a surprise year. And addicts can take shorter because also drugs can kill you quicker. So there's that kind of, you know, and I think also, I don't know, it's different, but maybe I don't talk so much about the crazy things I did. - Oh, okay. - Yeah. Because I think we all do crazy things. - Yeah. - We all do crazy things though. And, but I feel that I have a daughter who's 19. - Sure.
Your Media Career (16:19)
- And I wouldn't talk about crazy things I did. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah. - Okay. So we move on from there. And then the next sort of 10 or 15 years of your life, you have this media career. How aligned were you at this chapter of your life? - So when I did TV and writing, I really love that. I think what was very nice is we developed these women who found a suppressor. I love the fact that people would say, you know, I read your book and it's changed how I think about myself or, you know, and at the time when we look back at what not to where, it's a very divisive show. At the time, it made a lot of women and women that I meet now who watch the show at the time tell me the impact I had on them to think about themselves differently. But I enjoyed it. I enjoyed traveling around England and making over women and having that journey and over, you know, over a week, you saw the metamorphosis of a person you work with. And you saw them at the beginning and at the end. And then we kept in touch with many of the women. And then you would hear about their marriages and their babies and their life changing. And you knew there was a tiny contribution you'd made to that switch in them, turning the switch on to feel different. - Why did I end the show? - We'd gone from doing a series of that IT with ITBA year and writing a book a year to doing three or four shows I took on average about 55 flights a year. I left London on a Sunday night. I came back on a Friday. I had a seven-year-old daughter. And I had a partner who wasn't always well. So it was just a stage where I thought I need to readjust how my personal life is.
Dealing with My Husband's Addiction (18:03)
And I need to think, what can I do now? Because this doesn't work. - I had a partner that wasn't always well. I remember reading a line in your book where you said, "99% of the things we worry about don't happen, but that 1% happened to us." - And he said it to me. - So what he said to you? - Yeah. He would always say it. I mean, I always remind Lila what did Dada say when she's worried about stuff. - And he said, he's the one that said the 99% of things we were about don't actually happen. - Yeah. - I had a partner who was unwell, unwell in what way? - Addiction. - He was addicted to... - Yeah. - And you met him when you were 35. - No, no, I met him when I got clean. I met him when I was 27. - Oh, you got married when you were 35. - Yeah. - And he was in recovery. - Oh, okay. So, okay, when you were younger, you went through recovery. He went through recovery as well, but then relapsed. - He had a motorbike accident. And he was very badly hurt. And he took painkillers. - And got addicted to the painkillers. - Yeah. - What is that like? Because people think of painkillers that don't know addiction to painkillers, they think of paracetamol or something. My only experience with painkillers is taking a paracetamol only four years ago. - I think when you're in a relationship with somebody who has a form of addiction, there's an unpredictability and an inconsistency in how they turn up every day. And I think in any times when it's not great, you end up to an extent having the crumbs off the table. It's like you're so holding on to those moments when everything's good that you try and ignore what isn't working. - And at the same time, I was thinking about what you got married in the year that you were starting your business, your tech company. It's a lot to deal with if you've got a partner at home that you're married to that is struggling with addiction, you're starting a business. - Yeah, but they were well at that time. - Okay. - Yeah, they were well at that time. They had periods definitely through our marriage, where they were well, really well. The relationship breaks down. - Yeah. - You get divorced? - Yeah. - You go your separate ways, you remain close. - Yeah. - And then, Johnny ultimately passes away around the time when you finish, before you start Trini London, but around the time when you finish, what not to wear, and you separate from Susan. - Yeah, I separate from Susanna, and I started working on, I'd started working on Trini London. - Yeah, but I was still filming abroad, I was still doing telly shows abroad, but I was also working on the business. - And you were close to him, still, even though you'd separated. - Yeah. We spoke every day on the phone. - Every day. - Yeah. - He passes away when you were at 50? - Yeah. - How does that change things in your life? - Um, biggest changes, you become a single parent. Um, the thing you think will never happen happens. So it's a wake-up call, just for life, and how you see life. It took me a long time to grieve, because he left a mess when he died, which I had to kind of deal with. - Yeah. - Financial mess. - Just, yeah, just a mess. And so it preoccupies you to not then actually just think about what you miss in somebody. You know, it just, you focus on what you've got to do, you go on autopilot, you think of the kind of things you've got to deal with. And probably oddly, I moved in March, and that was the first time, I remember. Lyla went away, and it was the first time in 35 years I'd been on my own in-house. And I grieved for Johnny. All those years later. - Did something trigger that? - No, I think it's just you need, it's always you need space. You need to, you know, he died, there was a mess. I then started the business. I was living in a house I couldn't afford to live in. I had to sell it for lots of reasons, one of them, you know, for that reason. And there was so much I was, so many sort of files I was dealing with. And, and then I was, you know, trying to start the business, trying to guide Lyla to, you know, be okay. So there was a lot of years of that. And then another life change of just deciding I want to live on my own. Then brought up in a way to be able to just feel some things that I hadn't really let myself feel. And I think sometimes in life, we know we're not in that part of that strong enough to feel that feeling and move forward. And we have to be in the right situation and give ourselves that right breathing space to be able to feel the fullness of that feeling without judgment or guilt or remorse, you know, because all the other ones are so connected to situations externally. And it's very difficult to get to a situation where you're not bringing all the external factors in and you're just feeling how you feel about somebody. What was the fullness of that feeling in that moment? I think, um, that there was nothing, there's nothing better in anyone else than the bestness of Johnny. If that makes sense.
Losing Him to Suicide (25:01)
And I missed it. The circumstances of his death are particularly complicated because he didn't die by natural causes. He died by suicide. And having sat here and spoken to people who've lost a partner or an ex in such a way, the feelings from what I've seen are much more complicated. I think anyone dying, who dies unexpectedly, whether from illness or anything, it's somebody is gone. You know, that's the biggest fundamental of anything. The circumstances drive how differently people deal with death. So, you know, some members of his family wanted to believe that was a conspiracy theory. You know, you suddenly have 101 kind of views on things and stuff that really confuses and complicates the fact that somebody has gone. You know, they've gone. Nothing is going to bring them back. They have gone. But it leaves more questions. And then you look at your part in something. You know, and that's every person who has had somebody commit suicide at some stage will say, "Was it anything I could have done, stop it?" You know, that's the first thing, for sure. If you love somebody. And the more I have learned about suicide, the more that you know that when people, when people talk about wanting to kill themselves, I'm not saying it happens less frequently than people who don't. But once somebody makes a decision that that's what they're going to do, they don't talk about it. You know, and you'd like to feel you'd pick up on it. But I think it's the hardest lesson to learn. But when you then come across people where you feel that you now pick up on those not saying things, that there's a lot of internalizing going on. And should you be reaching out and just talking, getting them to talk. Because people get themselves to a stage where they feel it's the only solution. And what's staggering is, Johnny had hyper-vigilance around his children, because he'd been in the Israeli army and he was paramedic. And he had a really, it was a really tough situation. And he had from it post traumatic stress disorder, which wasn't acknowledged, you know, it wasn't diagnosed until about 20 years later. But one of the things was this hyper-vigilance around his children. So he had, he was always so, you know, worried for their welfare. So you kind of have this thing of where do you get to in your brain when you are so worried about your children. That you can convince yourself the best thing for your children who you love profoundly is that you're not in their life anymore. And that is something that is so important that we can help people who get to that situation, that they don't get to have final part of that situation. And it's understanding what to recognize, it's understanding, you know, and it's very hard to recognize. You know, I didn't recognize. And there were lots of details of it which could have really upset me, you know, of things that were done wrong. Just what just like police stuff that was done, you know, lots of things which you could hold on, you can hold on to lots of things. But you kind of have to let go. When I see people who have family who have died and they want to hold on to things or get this, you know, it's like all those things you might hold on to will prevent you to go through the process of grieving because it will hold you in this place in time and you will just be sitting with that. You know, and you won't be able to work through. And, you know, when somebody dies, you need to work through these stages and acknowledge these stages but not get stuck in something which eats you up. So even though there were all these things that kind of could have eaten me up, I sort of knew and I had a very good, there's a wonderful one called Julius Samuel and she wrote this to Shappas and another book called Griefworks. I don't know if you've ever had her on your podcast. She's an incredible grief counselor and I saw her straight away. She came to my house when I knew and I hadn't yet told Leina. Because the first thing is you need to find the words of what to say. She was a friend of my sister and she gave me words. It's like you just feel so like this. I'm at a good place with it now and I think that final thing was this moment I have by myself when Leila went off for a week and I just thought I can't very, I'm totally, you know, this is eight years later but things take time. So interesting with how the process of grief, those first sort of eight years where you kind of compartmentalize it or it's not the right time to address it yet because there's other things going on and then eight years later how it can show up in a moment of like solitude and in a moment of space and come out. It's interesting because I think there's so many of us, whether it's the grief of losing someone or the grief of some other form of trauma that we have at compartmentalized and it might be impacting our lives in ways we don't understand. I hear this a lot when I speak to people about their mood or they were a slightly different person through that period but until they were able to kind of sit down and confront it and and go through the process of grief they didn't realize that it changed them in some way. Eight years later you have your moment. 53 years old you start. Trini. Yeah.
Starting a Business at 53 & Its Struggles (32:32)
Big smile on your face. You know starting a business like that at 53 a lot of people have a like a stigma or a stereotype that you can't start a business in midlife. You shouldn't be doing that at that point or that you won't be able to raise. You know all of those kind of stigmas around starting a business in midlife. Crap. Crap yeah. Turtle Crap. I started a business at 16 called what's my first business? Those are limited. When I was at school I saw how those. I know. And then I started a business at 53. So it's like there's no other way to put it that that age is a number. It is just a fucking number and you can either mention that number endlessly or you can look at what energy do you have at that moment in time to execute on your dream. That's all it's that's all you need. Energy. All you need. Well you need a lot but you know you need to feel that. You need energy, passion, drive, relentlessness, perseverance, resilience. Pick yourself up and just get fucking on with it. You need all of those things but you need the energy so that you jump out of bed in the morning and you are on it. Did it take time for you to cultivate that in the passing after joining past? Was there like a do you know what I mean? Because I did I did already two before and for that I was you know I did 18 hours days for two and a half years it's like you know it's in me that I've been a graft for quite a long time. So you'd been mulling this idea for many many many years and then and then you finally put it into action. I heard you say I started pitching in 2014 and it took me three years to launch. Yeah I tried pitching in 2013 I think. And what were you pitching? I was pitching. What was the elevator pitch? The elevator pitch was to create portable cream-based personalized makeup for women 35 plus. And how was that pitch received? I did 48 pitches before one person bit I must have sent 300 emails. What kind of negative feedback did you get? Oh I had lots. I had I had you don't have enough followers. Fine. I had like I think 50,000 followers then. I had your two old start of business. I had who's going to really run the business? Classic. Oh that's a nice little backhand. I love that one. You live in this neverland. It's not like it's never going to happen but it's never going to happen but you don't put words to either. You sit like this place and I had that feeling. I thought are people ever going to get it but I thought I'm never going to give up. So they were both sat side by side really starting. Why don't you give up? Because I knew it was a fucking good idea and I knew it would work. I just had to find the right people who would get it. But everyone's telling you no. Everyone's telling you to. I don't care if everyone's telling me no. I know and I know enough and I believe in myself enough to know I know it's a good idea. I just know it. I just got to find somebody who has the vision to understand it. How do you know it though? Because I know women because I've made over five thousand women in my life because I know what women miss. I know the frustration they feel at the beauty counter. I know that some of them don't want to admit they don't know how to do a smokey eye. I know that some women feel stuck but they don't know how to articulate how do I do it again because I don't want to seem silly in front of my friends. I know that some women feel just they could never do that. Was it expensive to start the business? Yes. What were the personal sacrifices? There are financial ones and there are friendship ones. Did you have to sell any tables? Let's start with the financial. No but I sold my house. You sold your house. Yeah I sold my house and I kind of... Why? Because I couldn't afford to stay on it. I had debt. I had a big mortgage. I had kind of... When I separated with Johnny I'd wanted to get this house that I bought that would enable me to walk my daughter to school. I just wanted this thing. Okay like desperately. So I bought this house with a really big mortgage and I did alone and I did it from scratch and it was my dream every single little element of this house I built. Did that make you sad? That realization because it seems like a... The idea that I would have to leave the house was something I thought about every single day for six months and thought what can I do to prevent it because I've worked this hard for so long to have this house. I've always wanted to own a house. But once you let go of it it's just a fucking house and you think there's a bigger picture and the bigger picture maybe could buy me five house but the bigger picture is that there is a bigger picture. Not even to look to the stage where you might be able to buy a nicer house but it's like I was on a mission Steven. I was on a mission and I thought I've got to make it happen. I can't not do this. There was no turning back. I could not start the business. So then it was what did I have to do start the business because first of all I sold all my clothes. I did the sale and I went on to Emily's list and Emily's list is this and I was renting out the house so I didn't care who came my house. I had like a thousand people coming in my house buying clothes so I raised in two sales 60 grand because I used to follow Gary Veena check and Gary was always like what the fuck can you sell in your house? You know you can sell your trainers. You went and spent a fortune on those people who was like oh I'm winching to Gary and Gary saying sell something everyone has something they can sell. Well how much do you want the business? How much do you want to be successful to start the business?
Overcoming Doubts When Starting a Business (38:30)
What are you prepared to give up? Look at the long-term game. Was there any doubt even a whisper of doubt? I say this in part because I look back on when I started my business I was keeping diary entries and I feel the same as you. There was no going back there was definitely not a plan B. My parents weren't speaking to me. I'm shoplifting pizzas at this point to pay myself. I can only go forward right? I haven't paid my rent in three months. I've rented only 150 pounds in rush home. So I recount that moment of my life as I zoom in on the tenacity and this certainty and this conviction. But then I look at these diary entries and on this day I'm like doubting myself a little bit. It didn't last but there was a day where it was like a rocky. For sure. It's not all. The thing is the overarching theme is I can't go back. It shouldn't negate the fact you're going to have doubt. You're going to question, you know it's like there's the thing somebody will believe in it but there was like another 10 meetings and nobody has. You know you think and also at the end of an investor present to investors the real questioning of your integrity over your idea is how much you decide what was the last meeting they had in the room which they brought to that advice to your meeting on a totally different business to kind of talk about the market or an amount of times I've talked about like you know it's about growth. It's not about retention. It's about 70% new customers 30% retention and I was always saying no it's 60% retention 40% growth but saying this when Casper Matrosos was going high fly was like nobody wants listen I know now then why they didn't invest because their whole thing was growth retention. Fuck it. You know and it's like retention is everything. You've got it down well growing you've got to have new customers but if you don't have the bedrock of retention the kind of classic you know like companies that don't do any publicity like five guys or some companies that haven't done much publicity they're relying on the customer loving it they're relying on getting new customers from their customers. You know they're relying on the most classic word of mouth moment but you've got to build a company on cement and I felt at the time these guys looking around they're building it on quicksand you've got to then leave that investor meeting and think what do I take away that's good advice so the advice I took away to myself was if I'm in a room of predominantly men I want to go in and a female trait to me as you want to paint me and tie a picture you want to bring somebody into your universe and you want to show them everything so they don't have one thing they can hone in on to make sense of your business and join the dots you don't give them the dot-jointer so therefore the thing I learned was to go in and say look we're starting with this and from this I'm going to give you this and then we'll get to that and they're like okay and they it's not men are slow and women are faster it's like there is a fundamental difference in how people need information to live a to them so they can absorb it go yeah that ticks my box and then be ready to listen to the next bit of information and that I didn't know I didn't know into the 10th pitch and then in the 10th pitch or whatever halfway through my pitching I kind of thought actually what am I not doing right here to convey because if I believe this is a good idea if I believe it has legs what am I not getting through to them that I need to and that's the vision of the future kind of it's a bit of isn't it's like there's a real classic that if you
Using Investor Prejudice to Your Advantage (42:00)
are a woman generally men if it's for dominant males they will ask how do you protect your downside and if I'm a man sitting here they will say how do you maximize your upside it's a classic all right so when then so just to explain for people that don't understand downside is basically like how do you how do you negate your risk yeah so so you know how do you protect your risk you know what happens if you have a problem with the product what happens if you can't find a customer what happens if blah blah and maximizing upside is how you're going to scale how you're going to make that business bigger so I thought okay all right so then when they would start to get to that little thing I would say you know what these three ways like any business is what I'll be doing now let us focus on how I'm going to maximize the upside and just kind of gently not insultingly sometimes I was a little bit you know so you became aware of their prejudice and would counteract it before they kind of had a chance to use that as a way to yeah you kind of want to bring in a consultation well it took me a while Steven it took me because I had never gone to you know when I did invest in presentations in 99 I did five and I got it you know in those two of them invested it was a very different time and pitching a concept how did you counteract the prejudice that you knew was existing in those pitch boardrooms or did you how did you deal with it because there's a part of me that thought like I went to one and he said I love the idea but it will only be successful if you do it for millennials or Gen Z because they're the only people who are going to buy like that because women of your age don't know how to buy makeup online okay and at the time 26% of people bought beauty online all right and of that 26% maybe 15% were in the demographic that I said but I said I'm providing personalization that will make a woman and I will talk to women in a way of a language they understand to think actually maybe if I went online I'd be better diagnosed than if I went in store because she has this personalization and and then when it launched and those very first few people who had never shot for makeup online did it and thought this is better than me going to be stones it was like spread the word spread the word and it built on itself but at that time when the man from this VC was saying that and I was like I left the room and I thought I actually would not want this person to invest in my business anyway so there is that maturity you can get of thinking because you've got to also you know when you're going for money you very much feel the Paris in their hands and there's got to be something you bring in through and where you think do I want these people to invest in my business and to get to a stage where you're the one in a way on the back folks you're wanting the cash how can you then say to yourself turn it around you know do I want these people in the business have they got something to contribute and asking them questions like what will you contribute what do you do for your other VCs I spoken to a few you know you have this big thing
Your Incredible Business Success (45:23)
saying that you get the CMOs together and whatever but do you actually do that and how does that happen to you and how much is this business worth in your perspective don't give out valuations oh I read 180 million online it's doing well though yeah what can you tell me about the scale of the business just to give us an inclination we've you know grown over 120 years for five years five years yeah we did 50 something million last year we are we sell in 180 countries we started skincare a year and a half go it's now 38% of my revenue so it's growing quite quickly it has the highest retention so when I look at the business and I look at retention of products for me the value of the business and look at what product basis there are so that to me is an exciting place a business is going to um we're localizing in different countries so there's one thing to be sold internationally but then when you localize it takes a lot of personalization across different yeah it does and so we we did it when we're about 50% in the UK and then we're about 23% in Australia with 10%
What Are Your Character Traits That Made Your Business Successful? (46:45)
in America that is a fantastic business and I would like to invest what when you think about your character traits and what you bring to the business what what is that and how has that led the business to become successful because I think in founders we talked earlier about focusing on the thing you're good at yeah what is the thing that Trini is good at in this business I think I'm good at understanding how women react to things and what they want and how you speak to somebody so they can hear it I think that's probably what I know better than anyone else in the company how would you speak to someone so that they hear it well years ago I did Oprah and Oprah taught me a lot and she was she is an amazing woman but when I used to do her shows we would tell her stuff because we'd just done a book and it would become a number one times bestseller in in America and it was like she helped us do that but she would tell them stuff I'd said and then she would repeat it three times within that half now she just repeat it repeat it and I said after I was Oprah you always repeat she said because it registers they get reminded they remember so that sense of you say something and you say it three times in maybe three different ways so that by the end of that conversation somebody walks away with a new thought in that so there is that and I don't consciously do that anymore I think at the beginning I probably did because I remember what she said and then it got into a habit but and it's also remembering who to speak to because when you speak when I do my contribution to to Trini London on social I could be speaking to many different women I could be speaking to a nurse on 18 grand a year who saves up every month to buy one thing and I could be speaking to somebody who could buy 10 things and she's to spy us okay so it's quite a broad remit but they all realize because of what I was talking about the importance of actually buying things that really work for your skin and not wasting your money and and not putting things on that are bad for your skin I don't mean bad like green I mean like don't do anything for your skin or just understanding what you should use is not what your best friend should use and because I've I had very bad acne I mean like when you talked about you're turning off the light okay I used to decide what restaurant are I going to like if I was going out and as an 18 year old and I had this lighting I would literally say can we go to another restaurant because you would see my acne postules coming down and I would go like I'd literally I'd be like this but so that obsession with my skin and the effect it gave on my confidence and put was a lot of what I put into when we look at what ingredients are we going to use and how are we going to use them and we have a lab in England you know I'm proud the fact we have a lab we make things from scratch we're not like hey let's put a label on here and say trinity London you know are you proud of the business very are you proud of yourself um yes I am when I remember to be I mean I get when I
Reflecting On Success, Future Goals And Products
Are You Proud of What You’ve Achieved? (49:39)
remember to be no like you've crossed your arms look at the body language no I am I don't it's very easy to well I never get to a place to concede um many people are proud for me and I sometimes find that challenging it's like I want to move the conversation on why I don't know I don't I can't answer it and it's just a thing you know but I'll have good friends of mine who've known me a long time who will just say you know very lovely things about having grown the business I often I'm going to how do you feel on some because we got together because we must go through this I do I'm asking questions but I but you're okay so so give me your feedback well when someone gives me a big compliment at the same time they're also reminding me of everything I could lose and so I think my my natural way of dealing with things is to as you've kind of described is that forward motion that forward motion makes me feel stable yeah so whenever someone comes to me gives me a compliment about something I've achieved it's it's um I always say like chaos is stability and stability is chaos it's a moment of stability that I don't like like just the idea of of accomplishment yeah yeah creates a stability that I don't like I want chaos I need that forward motion to feel stable it's a weird one because it's like a lot of people would disagree it with what you're saying in terms of you know sort of a self-worth guru who's saying you've got to you've got to you know take a step to a lot of friends who say Trina you need to take a moment to acknowledge how far you've come and I think what you're saying is I'm just trying to grasp exactly your thing of the chaos and stability and I think I can explain that out yeah okay so when when Olympians go to the Olympics they come back even if they've won a gold medal and they fall into a depression I think they call it gold medal depression the stats around are alarming I thought everyone asked what's where it said up to 80 percent of Olympians post the Olympics feel that way I think that humans most of us anyway maybe that's why we're in these buildings with these amazing amazing technology have it within us to need to just go back to what I said before we start recording about progress yeah we need a sense of forward motion we don't the opposite of what we don't want is completed goals abundant resources and nothing to strive for so maybe because I'm particularly I was particularly insecure as a child I need I get my worth from the sense of forward motion and accomplishment the thought of stopping yeah and being done is a form of psychological chaos it's a form of purposelessness and so I think stability is actually the forward motion the chaos the uncompleted goals the striving that's what when I feel most stable okay and when you remove that something to strive for I feel I feel what people would call stability I feel okay yeah but also I think for me and you there is something where our work is I know it for me anyway is inherently linked at deep deep level to our sense of self-worth yeah and so yeah it's quite I feel deeply uncomfortable when I get a compliment about the work we do or when people say that to me I use to pause for a second and just think about how far you've come yeah it's robbing me of something it's like it is um when will enough be enough I don't know if enough should never ever be enough I don't know if you should always have a little bit I don't know because you see you live in chaos so I'll see you that question when will enough be enough when will enough be honest I'll never be satisfied I always think about that um well I go back to what I said I hope I hope there's no such thing as enough in my mind yeah so when will enough answer your question when will enough be enough it will never be because enough is always going to mean forward motion so and progress enough yeah it's going to be enough because it's success to me is forward motion progress so sickness success can't therefore possibly be any destination it is the forward motion it is the journey it is the journey it is challenge it is autonomy it is a meaningful goal to strive towards and it's doing it with people I love yeah that's success for me okay and and so I need challenge I need forward motion with people I love high degree of self-control yeah it's your life breath yeah and then I'll die some day as I'm doing it yeah it is life rest yeah it really is as you know zoe your sponsor of this podcast and I'm a big investor in the company you guys know I'm really sitting still because that's just the nature of my life so whether I'm in a business meeting with my investments or I'm recording this podcast I'm always running from A to B but the one promise that I made to myself is to fuel my body sufficiently and Zoe has been really the key part of me succeeding in that mission for those of you that don't know I've been a Zoe member for about a few months now ever since I had Zoe's scientific co-founder Professor Tim Spector on this podcast Zoe helps me to understand how to make better food choices for my long-term health and it's all personalized to me eating the right food is essential for me to keep me going because some of my meetings are often later in the day and so I need to ensure that I keep my energy levels up and Zoe allows me to understand which foods work for me and which foods don't eating the Zoe way I don't get that dreaded afternoon crash and I feel great so to get started with Zoe go to zoey.com/steven and use my exclusive code ceo 10 for 10% off so many of you've been asking me for a discount code here it is ceo 10 go to zoey.com/steven and use my exclusive code ceo 10 for 10% off and if you already use Zoe send me a DM and let me know how you're getting on what is success to you these days like what
What Does a Successful Decade Look Like for You? (55:31)
is what does success mean for you people ask me that all the time as well but I mean it's such a you when you hear that question you're not saying oh fuck so make it specific like too generalistic so what's if you if I let's look look at the next decade of your life okay if I say if we meet again in 10 years time and you say to me that was a successful decade all right that's a good way okay next 10 years successful decade um the one thing this is the only thing where I will bring age into it all right is I am 59 so when I'm 69 do I want to be working so hard that I sort of misfriends birthdays and don't get to you know take part in life of things outside going to work because that's a big one like when you're in your 20s and 30s you can kind of like all your friends are doing that too you know and in that same space so it doesn't matter if you say look in a month we'll get together we'll go for a weekend somewhere because you're all doing it so it's like you're on this thing together but when you're me probably of my friends maybe 80% of them their life is slightly different from what I'm doing right now so and that element of that friendship and those connection with people is fundamentally crucial to our feeding our soul you know and there's always that you know guy who not the head of american's breast but he's like you know will I be remembered for how hard I worked you know on the graves and there's that classic corny thing of like well they remember how hard you know it's like they won't but whenever I read that I think but they just had a nine-five job and this is a passion you know I always say that I think this is so different because this is because if I if it was just a job I'd probably say you know I should slow down a bit whatever but I travel the world I help a lot of people around the world I meet a lot of I was in Birmingham what about work life balance training yes but this is the thing it's like I don't see my job as job and then there's work life balance because there's areas of my job which should be sociable things so I meet people I have conversations with women every day you know on this you know social media thing which is now a few few million people I have these women who know me really well it's so interesting how you think oh but I haven't seen you know I have my friends who have known me since I've been my teens but I have these women who are part of the trinity tribe they could be anywhere in the world but they know me so well that like I might do a little live and they'll DM me say Trini I sense this this morning are you okay do you need to take a breath you know and then when I shared this you know that John had died and and so you know they were you know they sent thousands of messages and I read I read everything people sent because if people make the effort to write a message and on my Instagram I respond to everything you know I we have a team of 11 people who do we have like 12,000 comments a week for Trini London stuff but I do all my Instagram because that's the beating heart of the women in my life and the feeling people are feeling you know whenever you have a business you need to understand what is the feeling people are feeling so in England we have a big cost of living crisis I still want to give people quality products that are premium so with all these things going on how do I sense check this thing how do I adapt the conversation so that it still is relevant to their life and they're just so going back to this work like ballots like they helped me to sit for a second and like one of them sent this message three days they said Trini you have to remember to feel what you're going through right now because you don't usually you just rush or it and you need to do it it's all I've never met before ever okay but they're just incredible women and so my when you when you talk about a business all right and you talk about starting a business my business is this passion for these women to feel great and and are sort of you know you always have these what's your vision board and what's your mission as a company but it's literally to leave a woman feeling better about herself than before she came into contact with me with fearless with the podcast with Trini London with what happens so that's my mission I am here for a mission I know that sounds like whatever but I am I know I am you know I know I am I know that when like I know that during covid when there were people feeling in a full family of people fundamentally so alone as women I knew how important it was that we should get out and we should chat to each other I knew it was just to like really chat really like share the shit share the feeling so they could go me too me too you know so it's 69 then you're saying that you're going to slow down and retire and have pinot colliders on the beach no I didn't say that at all did I ever say that so 69 no so you just had me in the next 10 years and what success looked like it's that this community grows because the more women who feel like this would tell more women and I would like at the moment maybe we have a million women and I would like that to be in the next 10 years 15 million women actually so that I'm going to put that number out there I'm going to now remember it I'd like that many women because if you can get to that many women but then how are you going to I said that because you talked about changing the balance a little bit so you could be there for your social connections a bit more yeah your friends yeah if you've got a goal of 15 million women so how am I growing this business where I have people in place who can do things that I can do better than me so that you can go and do so I can do even more of what only I can do yeah in the business in the business in a personal because at the moment I did this thing the other day and I did this thing with my CEO and a board member and I did like 365 days a year all right and we divide it up because we need to like see because people it's very difficult to get meetings in with so it was like okay there are six full days a year I do board meetings there are 12 days a year I do investor stuff so we had a little laugh or whatever and then it ended up to more more than the days of the year okay because I haven't taken that one holiday so Jane says to me lovely Jane she goes Trini this we have to change so she said okay what do you not have to do you know how could we move to a place slowly where you don't do this you do this and you do this so much but it's like you must talk to tons of people about when you have your best ideas all right we have our best ideas when we are not first removed from the chaos because you love this chaos but we're we're removed enough that things have the room to bubble to the top so I do Michael's car map every morning all right and I just started doing this other one on the the one with the half bowl in or something you know that really good one and there's this guy David G and it was discussed at Massey State Hospital there did some research that you listened to his meditation for 59 days and it changes your neuropaths like Ketteman might okay it's really I'm anyway I'm day 43 okay quite into it but when I give myself that little space the really good ideas for the business come up and the more I'm just doing running the business running the business the less we're going to have of those and I need to give the business the best of me so it's 69 do you think you're going to be working less differently differently more space for more creativity yeah and you know just just saying yeah I'll take a Friday off and go and go for a weekend somewhere and things like that yeah because you know would you be able to go for a weekend without thinking about the business yeah I did actually can I just tell you for the first time in five years I went away for five days two weeks ago and I only did like eight emails which was just great you wrote this wonderful book fearless it's really really surprising it's surprising did you read any of it yet yes I went through it and I read the entire section on life the other sections about beauty and style were a little
Fearless: Your Book (01:03:57)
bit tricky but I read everything in the live section about that's where I got some of those quotes from and the stuff about imposter syndrome and self belief and all of those things it is a a life advice book it is a beauty advice book it is a style advice book and it's just a gorgeous coffee table style have you see the thing is this is me okay you want me to pronounce you yeah because I hate looking at pictures of myself so the whole point to doing this book was to say you hate looking at pictures of yourself I hate fucking hungry is I just do so this is the book you'll have on your coffee table you see so nice like just it will make you pick it up more because it's biased to have my face on the front this is not biased ah no that is beautiful and it's a nice little message as well yeah to have a statement about yourself like yeah you know what's funny when people come on the show and they have a product I I often try and spend some time um talking about their products and stuff but the thing yeah the thing in this case is having got to understand you yeah and what drives you and having felt how authentic and deep your passion is there is no need that all the products is just a byproduct of exactly that what we've just experienced so it's funny because I hear you how deeply passionate and obsessed you are about your mission as you call it and I just believe the product because I know where it's coming from and that's the most important thing it's coming from a deep sense of mission that is so unbelievably authentic that starts sounds like in your childhood with a battle with your own skin issues and acne and the byproduct of that authentic mission is these wonderful products which are taken the world by storm what what what have I got in front of me here okay so every part so I'm just giving you I'm going to give you the quick headlight so you can go back to your girlfriend and and you can have knowledge let's just close off on this the book is available in September yes fab so everyone can go pre-order that now yeah wonderful great so highly recommend everybody goes and pre-order is it because it's beautiful book thank you very much so fundamental skin care
Your Skincare Range & Top Tips (01:06:08)
whatever age you are or skin color you are or anything is you should clean your skin properly okay you should wear SPF okay every day whatever your melanin levels yeah cancer being the primary cause but other aesthetics as well um you should do something that regenerates your skin and retinoids can do that and exfoliants can exfoliate your skin and you should keep your skin even so vitamin c okay so those kind of me are the show stoppers in a routine what what if i don't because i'm guilty as charged okay all above okay if you don't jeans might make you think i don't need to i'm fine but i look at your skin and i'm going to come over now oh no don't call me oh fuck because i do this look at me and i close my eyes because i need to feel your skin without judging you by looking at you okay so what i do is i just have a feel and i feel so first thing i feel immediately is the congestion you have here right in the center a lot of people like women will have congestion here because they don't like to get their hair wet when they wash their face you have congestion here sure it's not muscle or something it's not muscle at all i know the difference downing okay and there and this is not like that's beard you see but this is congestion under the skin because you have an oily skin so you have a sebaceous gland that can sometimes get blocked under the skin it doesn't become a spot but it's congested so that's there all right so much exfoliant you're going to use i do get a lot of spots there okay well then you're going to use find your balance and in fact we've got to get you find your balance then i go around here then i feel your lymph whenever you're feeling blocked doing this tiny movement here releases your lymph nodes and you go around the back she's massaging my face for anyone like listening on audio it feels really good i know it's on your face like going around your ears i agree to disagree okay and then you go down and you want to kind of go down to a clavicle release this is all like a channel for all your lymph so if you ever get a blocked face or you get dark circles you do this kind of getting it down like that's why women always do that thing on instagram with the yeah with the sting so you're oilier here thank you you've got a slight dark circle yeah it's unslapped yeah and you've got hydrated skin but blocked skin so for me the best thing you would do with your skin is you would exfoliate your skin because you need to slosh off dead skin cells and you need to clarify your skin you need to get your pores get the congestion out so that means drinking water it means having an exfoliant a liquid exfoliant so there are some exfoliant we sell tiptoe in there you don't have a sense to skin so you would use one called find your balance which i'm going to give you okay okay and then afterwards use a moisturizer called niacinamide it's called energize me it has something called sicic acid in it sicic acid is like it's an ingredient that goes into your cell and goes like this so when you put that on your skin will wake up you'll feel an alertness to your skin and then you'll feel you get off a flight and you'd feel i don't look tired because you haven't learned you need to touch your face a lot of people just don't touch their face enough you need to get the oxygen to your face you know you go to the gym and the oxygen goes around your body and your lymph system works and you get this feeling of aliveness but we just leave our face alone so you do this you don't do it with me just do it with me get your sit get your fingers like this yeah like that so it's like you've got a scissor and do friction like this up down up down then go left and right up down like that okay and then you want to get your hands here yeah and you want to lift your cheekbones like this fast one two three four five six seven feel the energy eleven twelve thousand okay just let go now do you feel there's movement a rush in your face yeah that's your lymph your lymph is like your hose pipe around your face and if you put a sort of foot on the hosepipe it stops you need this to move around if it's moving around it with releasing the toxin taking them down here at the
The Starter Skincare Routine (01:10:18)
moment it's leaving them on your skin under your skin so it's cleaning out my face yes you want it to be moving if there was just three things then so tell me to pay this so if you had three things you would use yeah three products i would use and then sort of three principles towards good skincare okay you use better off which is a cleansing one you go in the shower yeah and you put this on your face yeah it's AHA and PHA it's got gentle exfoliating acids okay okay then find your balance which is an exfoliant which is not there okay i'm gonna get for you i don't know what good yet for you and energize me which you don't have those three things is what you're going to use okay your girlfriend we use a longer routine i don't know what she looks like or a skin tone but she'll probably have the retinols and she'll have the vitamin Cs and a few other things but you just need three things so that's the products and then in terms of the personal routines you said drink water sleep sleep and then massage my face yeah got it okay i'm looking forward to i'm looking forward to it i feel i've always kind of procrastinated on like skincare it's not because i know but if it's easy if it's more easy or better it's why this thing called pick it up yeah okay we would just like we'll cement it down with boot hack cool okay so we have a tradition where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest and not knowing who they're going to be leaving it for yeah the question left the view is what's the one thing that gives you the most healthy pleasure in
Last Guest’s Question (01:11:25)
life and how can you commit to harness more of it going down a ski slope at 83 kilometers an hour but the thing is i just feel it responsibility now that i can't do that anymore why because it's very dangerous you know it's like but it is it's a guilty because i love it i love the speed i love the like i'm just in control went through my hair you know it's the only sport i know how to do i'm shitted every other sport sounds like the way you live life yeah probably in control high speed yeah went through your hour probably good man so i could leave one somebody else now yeah thank you thank you so much thank you for the inspiration you truly are an inspiration uh tremendously tremendously so i'm gonna make you feel uncomfortable you should be so proud of how far you've come you must be so proud take some time to just breathe it in and enjoy it trini because you're gonna regret it no no i appreciate you so much thank you for being here thank you for coming and doing this and thank you for creating a real business that's um inspiring so many people just through its existence but also inspiring them to be better and to feel better about themselves through the wonderful products that you've made and i highly recommend that everyone goes and gets this book it's more of trini the trini that i'm sure you've loved in this conversation and these products i mean they speak from themselves because as i said you know exactly where they've come from so thank you as you may know this podcast is sponsored by heol if you're living under a rock you might have missed that and he all has such a wide range of products now but there is a great way to try all of them this is the heol best salabundal perfectly curated so that you can try all of the favorite products and decide which ones are your favorites the best salabundal has a range of meals and bars including the iconic heol shaker the pot and a free t-shirt which if you've got the free heol t-shirt you'll understand how well that t-shirt fits i'm not just saying that it really really is phenomenal if you've heard me talking about heol but haven't tried it for some reason then this is a great option for you to get to know the range and find the product that works best for you i've tried every single heeled product in the boardroom in the development laboratories and in my home and there's a couple of products which have just revolutionized my life because they meet the requirements that i'm looking for so if you're looking to try heel for the first time and to get into it and to join the heeligan family i'd highly recommend you try this out so