Edward Norton Interview (Full Episode) | The Tim Ferriss Show (Podcast) | Transcription
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optimal minimal This altitude I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking I'll ask you a personal question Now what is it in your front back? I must have a netting organism living tissue or another end of the spectrum Me too Paris Show This episode is brought to you by 99 Designs When your business needs a logo, website, business card, thumbnail or any other design I recommend checking out 99 Designs I use them myself, I've used them for many years I use them to create book cover prototypes for the four hour body Which went on to becoming number one New York Times bestseller I've also used them for banner ads, illustrations and much more With 99 Designs, you get a variety of original designs from designers around the world Give your feedback and then pick your favorite Your happiness is guaranteed So check out some of my competitions and designs And some of your competitions and designs From fellow Tim Ferris Show listeners at 99designs.com/Tim And right now you can get a free $99 upgrade on your first design So check it out 99designs.com/Tim This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront And this is a very unique sponsor Wealthfront is a massively disruptive in a good way Set it and forget it investing service Led by technologists from places like Apple and world famous investors It has exploded in popularity in the last two years And they now have more than $2.5 billion under management In fact, some of my very good friends, investors and Silicon Valley Have millions of their own money in Wealthfront So the question is why? 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I am an investor and hope to soon use it as a client Now back to the recommendation As a Tim Ferriss show listener, you'll get $15,000 managed for free if you decide to open an account But just start with seeing the portfolio that they would suggest for you Take two minutes, fill out their questionnaire at Wealthfront.com/Tim It's fast, it's free There's no downside that I can think of Now I do have to read a mandatory disclaimer Wealthfront Inc is an SEC registered investment advisor Investing in securities involves risks and there's the possibility of losing money Past performance is no guarantee of future results Please visit Wealthfront.com to read their full disclosure So check it out guys, this is one of the hottest, most innovative companies Coming out of Silicon Valley and they're killing it They become massively popular Just take a look, see what portfolio they would create for you And you can use that information however you want Wealthfront.com/Tim Hello boys and girls, this is Tim Ferriss and welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show Where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out the routines, habits, influences, books, etc That you can use or apply to your own life And in this episode I sit down with Edward Norton @EdwardNorton on the Twitters, please say hello to him Edward is an actor, filmmaker and activist Of course he's been nominated for three Academy Awards for his work in Primal Fear, American History X and Birdman He has starred in scores of other films including the iconic Fight Club, The Things You Own And at Bowning You, the illusionist and moonrise kingdom among many, many others Unbeknownst however, to many people, Edward is also a serial startup founder He is a UN ambassador for biodiversity, a massively successful investor For instance, very early in Uber and perhaps a half a dozen other unicorns A pilot and deeply involved in wilderness conservation And as luck would have it at this exact moment I am involved with one of his startups, Crowdrise I have a campaign on there with Johns Hopkins supporting some fascinating psychedelic research Check it out, it is to address treatment resistant depression It is fascinating, so go to crowdrise.com/timferris To check it all out And we have a very wide ranging conversation We cover a lot including his beginnings What early mentors taught him, some cool Marlon Brando stories, his physical prep for American History X Surfing favorite books, documentaries, underrated films and filmmakers That reindeer bell sound is Molly doing a little jig in the background And there are also some cats and heat outside of my partner for some reason So excuse the extracurricular sound Catastrophe of success would be one of the essayists for instance His advice to his 20 and 30 year old self and much more One bonus, a book that he recalled one of his favorites After we stopped recording, which I wanted to include Is Buddhism without beliefs And without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with the incredible Edward Norton Edward, welcome to the show Thanks I am sitting here looking out at the surfers And I know we got a start today because you had a session earlier this morning And it seems like surfing is a big part of your life I know this is maybe an odd place to start But how long has that been the case? It's definitely my most positive addiction I think I started, actually my father lived in Indonesia from like 2005 For about seven years And I was making a film in China called The Painted Veil And toward the very end of the film I got chucked off a horse doing a shot and I broke my back in three places Fortunately didn't hurt my spine at all Just cracked three vertebrae And was really lucky But my back was like a My back was like an oak table with no articulation in it Between my neck and the bottom of my
Edward Norton'S Personal Journey And Insights
How Edward got into surfing and the transformative power of this unique sport (06:47)
ass And so I couldn't twist, I couldn't like bend You know, I was really, really racked and locked up And when the film ended, my dad had just moved to Indonesia So I went down there for a couple months to hang out with him And just try to recover a little bit And I was like swimming and doing yoga And getting massages and things like that And there was a surf school on one of the beaches there And I'd always wanted to do that And started realizing that it forced you into a reversed kind of bowed position That was exactly what I was having trouble doing And so initially I started doing it just taking a big padded board and paddling You know, just to try to increase my endurance at having my back arched And from there, I got completely hooked on it It seems to undo a lot of the sort of posturally induced problems Of people who use computers too often, right? And sort of protracted, rounded back And then when you're forced into that thoracic extension Even for a half a minute or half an hour of paddling Or a few hours of paddling, it just seems to undo and balance all that out It's great physically, it's actually great aerobically It uses muscles in really weird ways And you have to be nimble and retain your ability To like hop up, you know, and you know, you read, you're looking at moving water all the time And I always say like trying to figure out the micro variations in waveforms And the way they're moving at you and where you should position yourself on them Is better than any video game, you know, it's, there's no video game that's more complex than trying to read the nuances of moving water And put yourself in the right place and it's just, I actually totally, not facetious It's an addiction, I think it, I have friends who were serious addicts, heroin addicts, you know, really struggled with things Who have replaced that with surfing because it hits parts of the brain, I think, that are completely, you know It's like dopamine and serotonin all at once and you come out of it so blissed out and
Surfing and meditation (09:18)
kind of, you know, we were talking about this earlier It's like a reboot on the, on your stress, on your crowded mind, on all of it I just think, I should meditate more than I do, except I do surf and I feel like that's, I combine, I get the meditative value out of surfing I think that the mindfulness aspect of it is, and I'm not a good surfer, although I enjoy surfing poorly But the fact that the train is always changing, like you said, makes it very distinct from something that you might think of as similar like snowboarding You constantly have to be in a present state, have a present state awareness of where you are relative to your surroundings, where you are relative to other people It's just a, it's a necessity that you're paying attention to what's happening in the here and now Yeah, it's great, it's a, it's, it also, you know, it makes me play hooky more than I do otherwise I, I'll, I'll suddenly find myself, you know, more able to be confident that I can push other things to the side I can't explain it, I, it, it recalibrates my sense of urgency around my to-do list, you know? Yeah, it sort of alleviates the manufactured emergencies somewhat Exactly, yeah What other morning rituals do you have that you find helpful, or have you had? I wish I had better ones, is the honest answer, I'm, I wish I, I think I would benefit from, um, from creating more ritual, morning routines that are positive be it like exercise first thing when I'm not surfing or meditation or anything that sort of, you know, as a matter of practice and starts the day in a, in a, in a mindful way or however you want to put it, you know, I, I, I, I too often just let the day begin by opening up the cascade of emails or things I think I'm supposed to do or, you know, it's, it's not the right way to jump start the mind and I, I, it's probably, probably, um, up, that's a category I should do better on So I'm obsessed with routines of course, different types of habits, maybe we could, I've wanted to ask you this, I'm actually astonished I haven't asked you this before in our previous conversations but when you were getting ready for the role in American History X, what type of training did you do for that? What did your training regimen look like?
Training for American History X (13:34)
Um, it was, it was pretty specific, uh, it was pretty specific to building mass, like I, I'm not, um, doing that film created the strangest distortion of perception on me and I know that's a weird thing to say but like, um, it was, it's unbelievable the degree to which that film and the magic of camera and art and black and white photography and all these things made a lot of people think that I was a larger and tougher person than I am Like, like people who know me, I think almost couldn't believe what was going on after that film because like, you know, I'm like six feet tall and I weigh 160 if I'm, you know, not in great shape like I have thin wrists, I'm not, I'm not a big, um, I'm not, I'm not naturally big so, um, it was, so it was a, it was a challenge for me to put, you know, that kind of weight on and um, so I just did, you know, many things you'd be more familiar with than almost anybody I, I, you know, I, I, I calorie loaded, I, I, a lot of lifting, um, for a long time, for the, for the first portion of it really just didn't, you know, concern with like, um, like leanness at all just just tried to get muscle mass on Um, I wish I'd had your book back then, but I didn't, you know, I didn't, probably what it helped me out but, but I, you know, I did my own version of it, um, increased, increased diet, increased protein, all that stuff and then, and I did it sort of the old fashioned blunt force way mostly just a lot of, probably much more than had I read your book sort of, you know, your, your minimum effort, um, uh, kind of maximum I was probably going way beyond the bell curve in terms of effort required to get the result, but that's what I did and then as we approached the film, um, I moved into kind of like, you know, just fat burning mode and I, I was, I was run, I was doing everything I could to lean out because the camera is a, camera is a magical thing, it doesn't, it doesn't actually see absolute scale, it really only sees things relative, so you don't know how tall Al Pacino really is unless he's standing next to, you know, Schwarzenegger, like, or whatever like, and, and you don't actually know how big a person is and lots of people, you know, I had, I had Jim Rats come up to me and go like, would you wear, would you, you know, do you wear two bucks on that, do you wear a buck 90, like whatever and I was like, no, I wasn't that big, you know what I mean, but we, but if you get form and definition, the camera sees that and if you put people around you, which we did very conscientiously, who are smaller so like the actor guy, Tori, who played the, the guy in jail, the black guy in jail who he becomes friends with, we, we cast, he was terrific but he was also really, really small and it made me look really, really big and those things, those things inflate the perception of how big you've gotten but, um, it was hard, it was hard but I really enjoyed it. Was the eating more challenging or the training more challenging? The, the eating was more challenging. I, I had trained, I was, you know, um, I rode, I rode crew in college and that was lightweight crew or, no, I rode heavyweight crew. Yeah, it is heavyweight. What's the, uh, there's nothing. It's lightweight has a cut off but heavyweight doesn't, um, and I should say like, I was not like a varsity. I, I rode my freshman year and I rode my sophomore year. But frankly, I probably should have rode lightweight because I, I, I was, you know, at my absolute maxed out. I was, I probably weighed 175 when I was really, really big and strong and 19 years old and everything and, you know, and the guys who were true, like varsity, eight class rowers, we had months, like two, two, 15, you know, guys and there's a whole other thing. Um, but I loved it. I loved it. And, and so training. I was a runner. I did one kind of ultra marathon kind of thing. I wasn't training hard wasn't, um, a new thing for me but, but building bulk was. And did you, was that self directed or did you hire someone to help you with that? Um, I did a lot on my own but no, I did. I had a guy, um, his name is eluding me right now. I never, I never worked with him again or had contact with him again after but Tony. Uh, he was terrific. Yeah, he designed, designed the protocol for ya. Yeah, designed it for me and, um, when, uh, when were you introduced to acting or how did that come to be? And I tried, and I did do a fair amount of reading and for whatever reason wasn't able to pin it down exactly. I mean, the summer camp came up but I don't know where things began.
Young actor aspirations (19:03)
I mean, mostly, you know, my, um, my mother was an English teacher. She was a high school English teacher and was a real theater aficionado. Both my parents were theater aficionados and film lovers and stuff like that. And, um, but my, they exposed me very early on to, to theater and plays and I, I, I had a strong pull toward that from the time I was five years old even, I started, I, I, a babysitter of mine went and I signed up, um, at the theater, at the theater arts program outside of school that she was involved in. And that's how, that's how I got involved in it. Um, and I went, you know, I went through ebbs and flows. I loved it. It wasn't, it wasn't like I knew I wanted to be an actor. I just liked doing it and I loved writing stories. I wrote, I made up my own comic books and I made little VHS camcorder films where you use the pause button to, as you're cut, you know what I mean? And, um, just all that stuff I love, not exclusively, not in a way where I knew it was my life as an adult. Um, and then I, and then I got really self conscious about it in high school. Like I didn't, I went to a public high school. It didn't seem cool to me at all. I was doing my athletics and things, but um, and the athletics were at that time what I did last. I played, I played tennis. I played baseball. I played ice hockey. Um, where was that? I ran track in, uh, in Columbia, Maryland. Yeah. It's like like half an hour south of Baltimore. And who were your first then mentors in the world of theater acting or performing? Well, the woman, um, the woman who created this, this local theater arts school in our community in, uh, Columbia, Maryland, her name was Toby Ornstein. And it's crazy to say, but she really was, um, I still think she's one of the great minds I ever encountered on theater, the craft of theater, the craft of acting. Um, she was not a, uh, a regional theater hobbyist. She was like, she was my Stella Adler really, like when I was young and infused us when we were really young with, I don't know, a sense of seriousness about it and, uh, of, uh, you know, craft, like when you're young and, you know, told us to read and told us to like be arydy on plays and it was really interesting. And then, um, uh, I, I, like I said, I got kind of in my teens, I got kind of self-conscious about it. And then, um, I saw, I saw Ian McKellan do a one man show in Washington, D.C. when I was about 17. And it was, it was so, it had such a huge impact on me that I, I thought, I thought, wow, this is something you could actually do as a, as a, as an avocation. You know, I mean, this is something that you can do as an adult. And it's, and it's like big and important and meaningful. That's how I felt about it. And, and then I still didn't really have a notion that I was going to commit myself to that until a couple of years after college, even. Cougars after college, what was your major in college? Or what did you go to? I studied history. I got a degree in history. Did you focus on Asian studies and languages and stuff? And the, if we, if we go back to, and I'm blanking, I apologize. What was her name again? The, the first woman, the Toby Ornstein Toby. Yeah. What could you tell a story or give an example of what type of things she would emphasize when she was working with you guys or particularly memories of her? I think she just, she was great director, great. Mostly, I think, you know, I think a lot of people would say that someone in their early life, there's always, if you're lucky, you have someone when you're young who doesn't talk down to you, who doesn't, who, who speaks to you as a serious person and exhorts you to be, to take something seriously, to take work seriously. You know, and, and if a person does that in the right way, you feel elevated. Like as a young person, you feel elevated. You feel like someone is someone saying to you, Hey, you want to be taken seriously, then take things seriously. Do the work. You know, don't coast, you know, and, and, and I'd say that's what she gave later when I was in New York. I had a teacher named Terry Schreiber who ran a terrific theater studio in New York, acting studio in New York and he, I would say, I've often said about him that the thing I admired most about him was that he was like a pluralist and by that I mean he, he was, he basically kind of, he basically, you know, rejected this notion that, that has infused, I think, a lot of the training of actors that, that a methodology is a, is, you know, that like one methodology holds the key to anything. He was like basically like all of these things are like what a forehand, a backhand of Ollie, a serve R to a tennis player. That is, you know, the Lee Strasburg method, the Stella Adler imagination focus, the Sandy Meisner, you know, exercises. He basically just said if you don't get yourself conversant with a lot of shots, you're just not going to be great. Like you're not going to, you're not going to be able to address material with diverse skill sets as called for, you know what I mean. And, and I thought that was that really resonated with me because I was really turned off by dogma. Right. Sounds like the Bruce Lee of, of acting and performance in this sort of the, the, yeah, except what is useful, reject what is useless and as uniquely your own type of. Exactly, exactly. I, I never thought of it that way, but that's, yeah, I agree. I am, I've always been insecure on stage and I still pace around like a nervous wreck for every time I get up to give a keynote or whatnot. I'm actually taking, I wasn't planning on asking you this, but just keep in mind, I'm actually taking my first acting class as an adult at the end of this month. It's a three day, I think it's going to be focused on improv. I don't know exactly what the curriculum is, but what advice would you give?
Why people feel especially self-conscious on stage (25:48)
And it's not that I plan on acting per se. I just thought it would be a helpful exercise to get over my fear of doing this type of thing. What, what advice might you give me? I know it's, it's, it's, um, I always, uh, I always think that one of the most interesting things about the challenge of representing behavior, which is basically what acting is or representing emotion, representing what everyone call it, is, um, that, like everybody does this all the time. Like very few people are, very few people are, are perpetually speaking in their authentic voice, you know, like, like the Dalai Lama might, but I, but I think he's got his moments where he's sort of playing the role of a monk, you know what I mean? Of course. As well.
The effect of self-consciousness on performance. (26:45)
And we just, we put on faces, we put on, we put on postures, we, we adapt to, we are depending on the circumstances that we're in all the time and people do it seamlessly all the time. And, and unself-consciously. Um, and yet the minute that you tell someone that other people are going to watch them do anything, definitely, I think when you put a camera on someone, the effect of self-consciousness is so profound on the, on people's inability to do that, which is completely natural to them at all times, at most times in their lives. And, and I almost think like as soon as you put someone on stage or you put a camera on someone, it's like, if there's a circle and on one side of the circle is naturalistic, you know, behavior, as soon as you throw someone's stage, it hurls them to the other side of the circle and they immediately become wouldn't unnatural. They make, they make choice. They become unable to, um, and a lot of that has to do just with tension and, and, um, a sense of urgency, nerves, you know, I think like the old fight, fight or flight thing, like I think this is a weird thing to reference, but you know, there's these, there's these like, there's this European show that was like a candid camera type show. It did a lot of things like where they, you know, they were scaring people or setting up a situation of, you know, a ticking suitcase in front of a, um, of a train station. And, and what's amazing is how paralysis is actually the most common response. Like people imagine in their minds what their behavior is going to be when presented with certain stimulus or, or circumstances, but the truth is, is that people go into a stone cold freeze in many, many situations, you know, and there's a lot of studies on this. I'm like the, you know, the behavior of crowds and all that kind of stuff. Like, right, we're getting stabbed in the street. Yeah. 40 people who all expect someone else to do something. Right. Right. And also just because I think it's something deeply biological. Like there's a lot of safety and freezing, you know what I mean. Um, but I think that it's very hard for people to find a comfort, a relaxed comfort, let alone a sense of pleasure within the idea that they're, they're performing in front of other people. Right. Um, and, and, and so they start to, um, they stop listening. You know, they stop. Um, they, they start doing what I would call up the middle choices. Like they start, they start painting in the color blue instead of doing the little things that, um, that, that I can't explain that a moment would actually call for the. One of the best stories I ever heard about young people in an acting class and, um, you know, the difference between sort of what happens to people typically and what a real authentic kind of genius is, is that Harry Bell, Harry Belafonte talked about being in an acting class with Marlon Brando when they were both like literally like 19 or 20 years old in Greenwich Village. Um, and I think he said that there was a, it, what they said was, okay, one person is in a one person's uh, in his apartment and the other one enters. You're the person who's on your couch in your apartment. The other one enters seen ensues, you know, just like run, just run with it. And all these people were doing all these kind of, um, you know, sort of forced conversations or trying to create a scenario or something and supposedly Marlon was sat on the couch and started reading a magazine and whoever it was with his man walked in his door and he looked up and jumped up and grabbed the guy by the shirt front and threw him out the door and slammed the door and everybody was like, what are you doing? He was like, I don't know who that fucking guy is. Like, he just walked into my apartment like scared the shit out of me, you know what I mean? And it's like, oh wait a minute. Yeah, there probably wouldn't be a scene. There probably wouldn't be a conversation. There'd be a like, like, who are you? Super awkward confrontation. Exactly. Like, get out. Um, and I, and I was the most obvious, true thing that you would do, which is one, you know, and what would the up the middle choice have been in that scenario? Or what is that? Like, what is another example of that because I love to better understand.
What makes the Riots scene great and why are middle-of-the-road choices so common? (31:40)
I don't know. There's a great, you know, I, I, um, I think that, uh, you know, when put it this way, uh, there's an argument and there's something about the rioting of a scene that indicates the lines would have indicated stress or it indicates anger. But the thing is that people, so then the up the middle choice is to raise your voice and be angry. But, but what we all, I think, know on some deep level when we watch people performing who, who really grab us is that they, they, they have an intuition for the choices that reflect the way that those things actually manifest themselves sometimes. Like people who are angry, you know, sometimes laugh. Um, they laugh, or they, or they go into silence or they go into slow burn like, like anger doesn't mean volume, but, but, but if there's an exclamation point on the end of the sentence in the script, they'll go with that exclamation point as opposed to, um, there's a great, there's a great, um, there's a, there's a film I love called the French Lieutenant's woman. And the French, the French Lieutenant's woman. Yeah, it's Meryl Streep and Jeremy Irons and, um, uh, I think it's, I think either Harold Pinter or Tom Stoppard wrote the script. I, but, um, the, there's a scene toward the end when Jeremy Irons can, excuse me. It's okay. Jeremy Irons character has, I'll say it again. There's, um, there's a scene toward the end where Jeremy Irons character has been looking and looking for Meryl Streep and he, he finds her after literally years of searching. And he's become angry and, and they, they go to have a conversation and he's so angry and overrodden. He goes to leave and she moves to stop him and he takes her and sort of in anger and seizes her by the shoulder and sort of pushes her out of the way. And, and it's, it's one of those things, the cameras set three steps down in a low recessed room and they're up these three steps and clearly it was a, a, a planned thing where he's thrower and she did a, you know, a staged fall down sort of right into the camera and, and very dramatic. And then he's, he's struck by his violence and he goes to pick her up and, and the scene continues on. And, um, and if you watch, I remember watching it and suddenly realizing that if you watch it closely, he throws her down and she strikes her head on the floor. You can, you can see that she hits her head on the floor and you can see if you look carefully at her reaction, she really hits her head and you can eat it. And you can even see it more on Jeremy Irons that, that he realizes she struck her head and his reaction is, is so alarmed. He, he has broken totally out of the scene for a moment, runs to her, picks her up. And if you watch it really closely, you can see that he is checking in with her, the actress for a second and he's about to open his mouth, I think, and, and just, you know, stop and say, are you okay? And she puts her hand up over his mouth. Like, like, as go to say, I, I'm not, we're, we're going on. And he realizes that she's still in it and, and covers his own mouth with his hand to stop from smiling. And, and what she does in this moment where you would think, you know, the whole thing is very melodramatic and she just let, she does this laugh in that thing. And I used to watch it because it's the strangest, it's just the strangest, most wonderful choice. But it's so true because she's just like, it's completely absurd. She's just laughing at the absurdity of it all and laughing at these things. And then the scene sort of settles and they go into this gentle conversation and everything. But it's, it's amazing. It's why she's like one of the great, great, greats of all time because she like, I think it's a completely counterintuitive choice. And it's a, and it's a great example of like two great actors and one of them is even about to break out of it because like, oh, something's happened that wasn't supposed to happen. So we should stop and she's like, no, that's real. You know, something's happened that makes it really, really interesting now. So let's not stop and, and it's, it's beautiful. That, that level of judgment under duress, it makes, it's just thinking of a battlefield medic or something like that. I mean, having the presence of mind to put the hand over the mouth, I'll have to watch that. Yeah, it's good. I, I asked them both about it and got confirmation that that's what happened. So I know I'm not like imagining it.
How William calms an overwhelmed actor (36:46)
If you were, say, directing a film and you had the opposite experience, you had a novice actor who was intimidated, say, by the people around them. And they were paralyzed for whatever reason or being too robotic. What, what would you do or say to kind of knock them out of that? Mm. It's tough. It really, it's a bad, it could be a bad question to him out of my depth. It depends on the situation. I mean, I think it's, the interest, the thing that makes that work all interesting so much of the time is that it's, it's just, it's, it's a chemistry. There's a chemistry between the people involved that's unique every time. It's, it's, it's the dynamics are, are, are unpredictable and fluid and very unique to the people involved. And you have to, you really have to find your way like every time. I, I think one of the things I like about it is that I, if I walk on, if I walk into those situations feeling, confident, I think that I've probably been working too much. You know what I mean? Like, I almost think it's, it's, it's almost better to feel at sea. If it's good, if it's complex, it's a, it's a, it's a lot of uncertain discovery in the beginning. And that, that, the sense that, the sense that you're, that you're at a loss or you're finding your way and you're, you know, means that you're in, you're involved in something worthwhile. I think if it's, if it's, if you're cruise, if you're cruising and it's a thing that is probably not that interesting.
Ju jitsu vs. a lonely breath exerciser, Iron Man 2 & more (38:34)
If, if, I mean, you, you've spent, obviously a lot of time honing your own craft. You've spent a lot of time with masters of, of in many different fields. I'm curious if you have any impressions or recollections of Hicks and Gracie when you were filming The Incredible Hulk. Were you able to spend any time with him? Or did you? Yeah, yeah, a little bit. Not as much as I would have liked to. I, it's funny. I started when I was in, when I was in college, I started studying IKETO. And, you know, that was the era. That was exactly when, when, uh, uh, uh, Joyce Gracie won the first USman like 92 or somewhere around there. Yeah, exactly. And maybe I started seeing, but I, you know, and, and I, like I said, I'm not, I'm not a huge person. I'm tall and everything. But one of the things that drew me to IKETO was that it, it had a lot of, it, it was one of the first things I experienced where understanding physical leverage really persuaded me that a smaller person could, could, I don't want to say defend themselves, but that this technique actually worked on a smaller person who was with a larger person. I always felt like with certain things I had studied that ultimately, like if a person's bigger and stronger and faster, they're just gonna, they're gonna, you know, steamroll you. And, and IKETO was one of the first things I ever experienced where much smaller people were commandingly over, you know, over mastering much bigger people. And, and when, and when a hoist Gracie won that UFC, I mean, it was, it was, it's hard to overstate the impact of that. Like, I mean, if you're interested in these types of things, that rewrote, that rewrote people's sense of what the priorities in, you know, in martial arts should be, that you had, after that, like you had to be a grappler. You had to be a jujitsu artist. You couldn't, you know, you, you couldn't just be like a striker and, and they, and they were, you know, so they were legend. And I was, I was interested in Japanese studies and IKETO and things like that. So I was the whole thing of the Gracie's and their form of jujitsu was like, was like, I was very interested in all that. So, so I, I wrote, I wrote into the script that he's doing breath training with someone in Brazil. And I wrote in parentheses, you know, like, like Hixen Gracie, but you, like one of the Gracie's, but you'll never get, we'll never get them. I knew it was in parentheses in the script. And, and then we found out he was down there and everything in, you know, it was amazing. He's, those guys are, are magicians, you know, they're, they're, they're really, really, like Ricky J is to magic or, you know, Kelly Sullen. You know, Kelly Slater is to surfing. It's like when you're, when you're, when you're with someone who's got that level of, you know, alpha over everybody else, it's really, really, really neat. Yeah, for those people listening who don't know who Hixen Gracie is, it doesn't, of course, cover it completely, but let's check out the documentary choke. I don't know if you've ever seen that.
Why Japan? (42:11)
It's, it's a great introduction to not only Hixen, but also gives a decent dose of, of Japanese culture. You, you spent time in Osaka, is that right? Or how long were you there? I was there for a long summer, but between my junior and senior year in college, I had a job over there. And what attracted you to Asian culture or Japanese culture? I was, I was interested in, in, yeah, I mean, I wish I could say it was something more evolved than, than the Richard Chamberlain mini series of Shogun, but I think it was that. It's a good mini series. Yeah, I think I saw, when I was a kid, I think the Shogun was on, then that I went and read Kleville's book and then, and then I, you know, devoured a lot of his Asia sort of historical novels and thought they were really neat. And, and then it, you know, it, it, it kind of grew from there and then I became interested in, in, in Buddhism, you know, history of Buddhism and stuff like that. And, um, Japanese aesthetics really appealed to me and the idea of Zen really captivated me when I was like in my late teens and stuff like that. And I, I, um, that, that was all just what pulled me into it. And then, uh, I love spending time over there and stuff. And then like, you know, and then one of my advisor, one of my professors was one of the great Chinese, modern Chinese historians, Jonathan Spence. And, um, he wrote, like, to me the definitive book about modern Chinese history called The Search for Modern China and, um, just Death of Woman Wong to Change China, all these great, great, great books. And, uh, and he was a phenomenal, he really activated history. You know, he, he really, like, was one of those people who I thought his lectures were just fantastic. And, um, and, um, that, that drew me into that interest.
Bill's major in college (44:30)
Why did you decide to major in history? Um, because I realized, um, my freshman year, uh, that I had no natural, uh, Mozart-like talent for math. And so that my dreams of, like, being Carl C. again, or a great astrophysicist were probably going to be hampered by my, um, by my poor grasp of even, um, you know, complex math, let alone like physics. And, uh, so I, so that became a hobby and a passion, but not, you know, and I realized I, I probably was a humanities major. Um, but I, no, I, I, I really, I've always really liked reading. I've always really, to me, like, studying history and travel are almost like the same thing. It's like, I, I, having a sense of like, you know, how things became the way they are and how people became the way they are is really interesting to me.
What is Humans of New York and how does it empower people (45:33)
Um, humans in New York. So I've had quite a few fans ask me to, uh, explore this a bit. Can you explain to people your, how you came to be, what is humans in New York and had you come to be involved with it? Um, I'm not involved with it, uh, to be clear, I, I, um, my sister turned me on. Yeah, my, my sister turned me on to the site. Um, and, and I think a couple of my friends in New York mentioned it to me. And it just, um, I liked it. I thought the site was really, I don't even know what to call it, a blog, a, a, a portrait series. You know, it's a, um, it reminds not to be too academic, but the, the, there's a great, um, there's a great American cultural anthropology, a studs-tirkel, you know, um, and he studs-tirkel was like the great chronicler of American working man and the common man kind of pro, you know, he was the, the depression era version of, of that. And, um, and I feel like, I feel like what this guy's got going with humans of New York is like a modern day studs-tirkel kind of, um, thing. And it's, it's just great if you're a New Yorker or anybody. It's a, it's a really, really cool, um, vantage on, on just people. And, uh, and so, actually again, my sister just, uh, uh, I think it's, uh, it's, uh, it's a great thing. And it just flipped him. It said, have you seen this series? He's got going. And, um, he had, he had just launched this series of profiles that he was calling the Syrian Americans about, about, he'd gone to Turkey to photograph and interview and profile people who were getting asylum, um, in the U.S. and were coming, you know, as though to say, okay, like let's, let's meet who these people really are and get out of the demagoguery of it all and just sort of see. And then, you know, if you, if you looked at any of them, they were incredibly, incredibly affecting stories. And how did that intersect then with crowdrise? Well, um, crowdrise, uh, just last year, uh, at the, about this time last year, we, we made the decision to, um, expand from hosting only, um, uh, peer to peer fundraising projects and crowdfunding projects for registered nonprofits and charities to also letting people raise direct assistance for other people. Um, you know, people who wanted to raise medical costs for a friend who had had an accident or some, a friend who'd lost their house. And, you know, so we, we, we decided to support fundraisers with, um, where people could help friends or loved ones with medical costs, uh, crisis, education costs, tuition, things like that. And, um, partly because so many people who use crowdrise, um, were asking us that, that they preferred to keep using their crowdrise profile pages and, and mount those types of projects rather than have to go off site to these, frankly, in my opinion, fairly shitty, um, exchange utilities, as I call them, like places that are just transactional platforms with no real strategic support. Um, no long term capture of your personal philanthropic narrative and, and the charge, in my opinion, way, way, way too much. So because crowdrise on the charitable, you know, on the charity side had already pioneered kind of mechanisms for delivering donated dollars through at, at a incredibly reduced rate compared to other platforms. Um, often we're able to offset even the credit card fees. So, um, uh, charities were already excited about and benefiting from being able to get their donation dollars through at cheaper than they can on their own websites. And as I was looking at the sites that support direct assistance fundraisers and I was looking at the rates of charge, I was just like screw this man. We, we need to make, we need to make our pricing model available to people who are trying to help their friends and family. Um, and so we did. I hadn't used that. I hadn't even used that functionality on our own site. And when I saw that story, um, I decided I was going to do my first, you know, direct assistance fundraiser to help that family and, and if we raised enough to help a couple of the families in the series. And how did the campaign do? Um, the campaign, the campaign was tremendous. Um, it, it, um, it raised, it raised the first 300,000 in, in like 30 hours. I mean, it really, it really went fast and then, and then it climbed toward, I think we're at, you know, 460,000 or something like that across the next day or two. Um, and what's fascinating, I think just, you know, to give huge credit to Brandon and who, who's the founder of Humans of New York and the photographer and writer and he, we, I didn't even, we didn't put it out in any kind of crowd rise social media or mine or anything like that. And I just, Brandon, I set up the page in Brandon posted on Humans of New York and a huge increment of that was driven in very short order in I think donations that averaged 26 bucks or 27 bucks just from the Humans of New York reader base. And then we expanded it, we'd let some media be done on it and stuff like that. And I think when all said and done, we'll probably get up to half a million. But, um, I loved it. You know, I, I, I loved seeing. I loved seeing that, you know, for the price of, um, three venti frappuccinos, people could without putting any kind of a dent or making any kind of a stretch in their own capacity. And so, just make the, the emotional gesture of responding to a story that touched them and, and demonstrate that in aggregate, if people will do this, you can, you can generate transformative impact as a crowd. And that's, that's the essence of why we set crowd rise up. And I think, um, it was, it was, it was pretty thrilling. Like, we had a lot of people on the crowd rise staff and Brandon at Humans of New York. We were all just like, you know, we were all pretty, pretty emotional about it. It was, it was really, it was really cool to see it unfold. And I think, by the way, again, that wasn't, it really was not a function of anything particular to my public profile at all. It really wasn't. It was driven. I think it was driven almost exclusively by the authentic passion of the Humans of New York reader base, who also were responding to the story and just were happy that someone had created the vehicle to all gather around and respond together. And I, and I think that, you know, I think that that's available to all of us. That's what I like about it. I don't, I don't think, um, I think you and I were talking about this earlier. I think, you know, we're in this very strange time. We're like, resource concentration is a real, you know, it's a, it's a real thing. Like people can say whatever they want, but the, the relative share of, of, of national wealth is being held by in larger and larger increment by fewer and fewer people. And at the same time, we're cutting, you know, aspects of the social safety net and food stamps as our friend Tony Robin points out. And, um, and I think that, you know, one of the things that's exciting about the, the networked world and the sort of the distributed, the empowerment of a distributed culture of people outside of government agencies, outside of corporate constructs, outside of everything, to be able to assemble and rally together is that people can proactively address things like that. We can move resources without anybody else's say, so we can decide, you know, uh, we can decide that we want to get together around things and, and assemble resources and make things happen like in with incredible speed, like incredible speed. And I think that's really, really exciting.
Social Movements And Crowd Funding
Huge potential of groundswell movements (54:17)
And what you mentioned also, which I think is worth underscoring, part of the reason I'm so excited by crowdfunding of, of, of many different types is like you said, you, you can not only affect change, in some cases, massive change with incredible speed. You can do it without any given individual suffering, a decrease in their quality of life, or discretionary income or anything else because you have just a thousand tiny movements that build this groundswall that can then sort of get something to escape the life.
Mechanism 3: Fund a pilot clinical trial for depression at CrowdRise (54:46)
And I've had a fantastic experience working with the grad rise team and for those people interested, and you mentioned Tony Tony's also behind this. I think that, you know, depression and sort of the mental health research in the US has a long way to go, and particularly with a class of compounds that could be called in the theogens, they could be called psychedelics, but they could be called psychedelics. But I'm working with a team at Johns Hopkins, rolling Griffiths, and we're looking at, or we will be conducting a pilot study using psilocybin for the addressing of treatment resistant depression. So depression, major depression that in subjects that is not responded to SSRIs or other types of therapy, and preliminary data would suggest that one dose has a rapid substantial and sustained effect. In some cases, up to six months with anti-depressive effects. And so we'll be not only conducting the administration of the psilocybin, but also using things like functional MRI to track and analyze it so we can hopefully determine how to safely best administer psilocybin or some analog of that. And what's so cool about it is it takes the study would cost a lot less than people might expect, it's $80,000, and we have a roster of thought leaders from different areas who are in support of this, including Tony.
Culture of contribution (56:17)
So for people who want to check that out, and also just check out CrowdRIs as a platform and see how well the entire page is put together, you can go to crowdrise.com/timferris, whether you know how to spell it or not, any misspelling, would probably go to the same place. So crowdrise.com/timferris, and I'll link to that in the show notes. Is there anything else you'd like to mention about CrowdRIs? Well, no, I think I do. I love that we're going to work with you on this because I also think that I was having this conversation with Tony Robbins yesterday because he, like you, has a terrific community of people that rally around the ideas and that you share and pull together and source for people. And I think I do think it's, again, to me, what you're doing and the notion that it doesn't matter that Tony could write a check for it or you could write a check for it or whatever, the notion that you can open up a serious conversation about a blind spot, a blind spot that we've got about the potential in something being taken off the table as an opportunity for people because it's going to get lumped in to a category of drugs viewed as negative, you know what I mean? And it's crazy, but the idea that there's actually, in many ways, I think there's much more potency in the idea of people of common mind about the rationality of something rallying to the tune of 25 bucks a piece to collectively say, "Let's make this happen. Let's make this happen. We don't need a foundation. We don't need a rich person. We don't need to say so from the NIH. We're going to make this happen." I think it's like actually kind of like a 21st century expression of like if you go back and read Duttoqueville's Democracy in America, he's this French guy visiting America in the 1830s or whatever and commenting on what is it. He basically one of the most notable things he says is he goes around and says like, "These people just start organizing. They just get together and get things done." He's basically what he's saying. He's like all comments on all the civic groups and all the community organizations and all the trade. He basically is amazed by what self proactive self-organization Americans do. And this is nearly 200 years ago. And I love it. I think this is exactly what you're doing is exactly that. It's like saying, "Hey, in this forum that you've got, we can get this done. Let's rally together and do it." And I think we've only really scratched the surface of the potential in rallying crowds of people around needs, ideas, businesses. We're in the earliest, earliest infancy still. Maybe not the earliest. People who poo-pooted it first have now and had to acknowledge that it's a force, but I think it's still going to mature and become an even bigger part of our cultural practice almost. Oh, I agree. And I think that the reason, just to build on what you said, the reason that I'm not just say funding this one study is that I really believe having just observed millions of people now on my various outlets and on the blog and so on for almost 10 years, hard to believe next year's the 10th anniversary of the first book it's insane. But most people do not attempt great things because they don't believe they can perform or achieve great things. Because I think in part the word "great" implies something of massive magnitude that engenders a lot of self-sacrifice. And I think with the technology that we have now, what I want people to experience firsthand is that they can participate, make a very small chess move themselves, say moving that pawn forward one square, that collectively with everyone else doing the same wins the equivalent of the World Series and puts a real positive debt in the universe. Like with this study is a chance for people to become potentially part of history. I mean, it could really be an Archimedes lever in reinventing how we look at treating depression and doing so with fewer side effects. And to do that, participate even if it's $1.25 or just say hypothetically $0 but you tell 10 other people about it and in that way participate. Well, that's part of what you're talking about in terms of leverage is what is also I think a part of the almost like the philosophical conviction we have at Crowdrise which is that people's capacity to effect change is not a function of their financial capacity. It's that everybody in the world we're living in has a dozen assets they can leverage that their Facebook page, their social networks, their friends and family, their schools, their institutions, their companies. Everybody's got networks now it's not just the Rolodex anymore it's now there's a mini network effect around everybody and available to everybody, but they have their energy they have their creativity they have their passion and they have their tools now that let so many more people from the comfort of their couch exert their brain their creativity without like massive logistical and cost constraints on them. And so we're saying it all the time like you know it's not even a question of whether you've got even the capacity to donate $0.25 to a psilocybin study. It's like if you believe in it almost everybody can ask 20 friends for 10 bucks and donate 10x their personal capacity you know it's like you can do anything that you care about you actually can affect now. And I think one of the reasons like we set crowd rise up as a not a kind of a use and drop evaporative platform but a place where like a Facebook or Twitter it's a permanent staging ground for a certain type of activity that you're doing is that we think people get proud when they do these things they're proud to participate they're proud of the things they've done and and so we give them the opportunity to stage multiple projects over time and capture the aggregate narrative of everything they've done year over year. You know that's why we'll do this with you and then you'll do something else and we'll do it again and we'll do it again and soon it won't just be the the individuated success of these projects that sort of evaporate it'll be like Tim's impact page will will show the tote you know it'll be a way of looking at the totality of what you've done over time. And I think that's really really that's a difference in a true platform versus what I would call just a payment utility. No I and this to me is this has a lot of those people who've heard my my podcasts with James Fodeman or Dan Angle and Martin Polanco I mean these types of comments have had a huge impact in my life in ways that I couldn't have imagined possible. And so it's it's less a transaction or even a campaign in my mind than the beginning of a movement. And so I felt like it was it was the right match. Yeah you want stickiness you know you want you want recurrence you want like you want a micro platform turnkey made easy for you that that becomes something that can sustain you know. Do we have some time for a few more questions yeah.
Successful biddefitarians? (01:05:03)
When you hear the word successful who is the first person who comes to mind and why. My dad is up there. My dad my brother you know I I'm not sure. I'm not sure. It's about people who spring to mind so much is that like I definitely find that almost in that child like way of like role modeling. Now in my life when I meet people who seem like they've got. They've got their aspirations and their engagement in balance with a lot of. Time for contemplative time family time personal health physical health I tend to look at that and go wow like I want to be like. That guy or that woman you know that that they I I definitely have seen. More than enough people with success as defined by notoriety or money or whatever who look like like the specter of you know despair to me like I I've seen I've seen. As I'm sure you have like lots of people you know with the albatross of success around their neck. That seem like an intense cautionary tale to me like I'd rather you know so so it's more I. You know I my sense of like what constitutes a health a successful person is probably more defined now by what looks like a healthy person.
Cult of personality (01:07:16)
How do you prevent yourself from becoming intoxicated by the sort of culture or cult of personality that so seems to be so prevalent in the world so say entertainment or that obsession with material wealth I mean it seems to be. That type of albatross seems to be very common what if what if what has helped you to not succumb. You know like I think I think everybody's got a constantly like sort of do battle with like the voices in your head that of ego and you know. I mean that's what Birdman was all about that literally I think that the beauty of what Alejandro took on in that film was. Being honest about the degree to which voices in your head like just hammer at you and hammer at you and hammer at you about. What you don't have and what what you ought to be aspiring to and. Mattering you know in the world and and I think that anybody very few people are are really free of that but. But I think that living in New York helps me oddly just because it's not it's not a film industry town it's not so much going on there and there's so many things I'm interested in involved in it. It keeps my life diverse and when I'm out here where we are like I do find that like. You know like being in the water and being able to hike and my pilot so fly you know flying and there's just things that take you out of your things that take me out of my head help a lot are pretty key. But I you know I mean I'm ridiculously fortunate and I think I have more than enough and I think that. Sometimes it's it's it's it's even getting a little bit of a taste of how much like. You know material possessions can really be a trap it's like there is that you know the things that you own end up owning you kind of maximum I think that they the I do think it's really really true I think I think. You start realizing how much lighter you feel when you dispense with a lot of that stuff then it becomes a positive snowball you know. What what books or book have you given most is a gift to other people.
Favorite book or books gifted (01:09:59)
That's a good question. There was a period where I I really like Antoine descent exuparies book it's called wind sand and stars. I haven't heard that. That's like a great great one. Were you interested in him because he was a pilot or did. Yeah both I was I was reading a lot of books about flying but real indicator and I guess what postal delivery. Yeah I mean he's flying the mail from like the Sahara to Paris and from Patagonia to Paris which is you know from yeah that's crazy. For those people who don't recognize the name also wrote the little prints yeah but yeah I mean wind sand and stars is like. It's it's it's it's as much a book about the philosophy of. Life as it and and as it is about flying it's it's like Zen and Zen in the in the craft of flying but it's it's just beautiful. We were talking about this earlier I really like that book the black swan. Yeah I give that to friends of a certain type. What type. I really enjoyed that book. Yeah yeah I think it's it's an extremely like it's if you if you absorb it right it's it's it's it's it's got a really amazing capacity to prick certain bubbles of delusion or help you realize bubbles of delusion that we all operate in and it's I think it's really really cool. How not to fool yourself.
Favorites And Final Thoughts
Favorite documentary (01:11:44)
Yeah I am. You mentioned two essays we don't have to go too deep into the I'll just name them and then link to them in the show notes but there was second win second wind yeah which was by the former Czechoslovakian president. I'm not going to get his first name. I love how the whole HAV EL and then the catastrophe of success and the author is. Tennessee Williams Tennessee Williams any context that you'd like to provide for folks for those two just great. The catastrophe of success is like one of the great essays by a creative person about exactly what you're just talking the traps the traps that follow on achieving anything really that you were aspiring to achieve and then what do you. What happens after that happens you know and second wind is sort of the same from a different perspective more like how do you. How do you have the courage to kind of not repeat yourself put yourself out of your comfort zone in a creative sense but also in a life sense and and and. I think what I like about second wind is as a playwright he was sort of saying like that you kind of. Discourage like a point of view and you can keep doing that but at some point if you don't stop and go back into like absorption mode. You're going to you're going to be repeating yourself and you have to dare to like. You have to dare yourself to to to stop listen live absorb and then try again from scratch you know I mean that that's like. It's a great essay it's really really great. Do you have any favorite documentaries many I want to name ones that probably I love Bennett Miller's film the cruise. The cruise yeah Bennett people know he directed a kapote and money ball and Fox catcher brilliant filmmaker but I think almost my favorite film of his is a documentary called the cruise. What is that about it's about a guy who's a tour he's a tour guide. The host on the open double decker buses in New York City who's cool who's a poet and who. I can't you can't you just have to see it it's great. And I really like that one. Other ones people might not have seen I really like I really like Adam Curtis's films. Great British documentarian he's got that four part film called the century of the self. And then a three part one called the power of nightmares. I think those are those are absolutely brilliant brilliant brilliant films like dance but really eye opening. Are there any other underrated movies that you think people should should say they're not necessarily documentaries any any particular. I think I'm a huge huge fan of this French filmmaker Jacques Odeard who I think in the last few years. He put up he put up a hat trick of films. The beat my heart skipped and then a profit.
Favorite underrated movie (01:15:22)
That is one of my favorite films like one of the amazing I personally put a profit as a film. I think the godfather good fellows and a profit are are at this point my three. If I depict three gangster films. For those people who haven't seen a profit. I don't speak French but it's unprofite and the poster if you're looking at it on Netflix or Amazon or iTunes or whatever it's red and black. But it's about I want to say Middle Eastern Algerian Algerian that's right Algerian young male who goes to prison about his what happened. I won't say anything more and then after that Rust and bone was his next film and it's like. It's just a brilliant film Marian Coteard it's like one of the great performances in the last few years and I love those all those films. And then and I think you know excusing the fact that I happen to be in one of them. But I think Alejandro Eniridu's last three films in a row beautiful. Beautiful was an extremely extremely underseen masterpiece. It was Eniridu's film prior to Birdman and it's a masterpiece. It's just called beautiful. Yeah spelled spelled wrong. It's a masterpiece and it's it's absolutely brilliant. And again one of the greatest performances of all in a long time and and his the third in his triptych I think is the Revenant out right now. I think the Revenants one of the great films I've seen in the last many years it's like it's an absolute unqualified masterpiece. It's just it's just it's like a Native American spirit myth or straight out of a Joseph Campbell myth or something. It's just it's just a magnificent magnificent piece of filmmaking. We could have a whole separate conversation about about Birdman which we won't do today but also one of my favorite films in the last few years. Three more questions if you get of a billboard anywhere that said anything what would you put on it? I might put pray for surf. I I I I don't know I might put the name of certain people from high school like and just say like so and so comma how you like me now. That would be very unevolved. That would be very unevolved. But no I I I don't know I don't know what I would put on it. I we can come back to that. You know what I you know what I know I'm changing my answer. I would put I would put Paul Rudd's cell phone number on it. It would complete it would complete a long running series of jokes that would just be perfect. See if we can we can all read actual number please call. We'll do we'll do a separate crowdfunding campaign to raise money for the billboard rental.
Advice to 30 year old Edward and senior year in college Edward (01:18:48)
What advice would you give to your 30 year old self and could you just place where you were at the time. Oh yeah I know I was I was on the last two days of shooting a film I was directing when I turned 30 and I I think I might tell myself at that phase to commit myself to a few fewer things than I did at that time that I'm still that I'm still feeling obligated to and that maybe I wish I had a few less of those things. Like I think my aspiration and my sense of my own energy and time was like limitless at that time and now some of that has become a cage of obligation that I would like to unlock yeah but I'll get there. Senior year in college what advice would you have given yourself. I might I might have told myself to go live abroad right then should have done it right then like for a year or two. I had lived or brought a little bit I should have gone in. That's like when you think everything's about to get started and it's not and I should have you know I should have gone and lived I should have gone somewhere and lived somewhere you know interesting. Or different that I would be much harder to do later. Where would you where would you choose for yourself. I don't know. I don't know. Just take a trip to Japan together get you back to Japan. Last last real question is do you have any ask or request of the audience people listening things they should do ponder or otherwise. If you're looking to if you're looking to raise financial support for a friend or family member do it on crowd rise not on other sites because much more of the money will go through to them. That's my you know entrepreneurial hat and then.
Request of the audience (01:21:13)
I think I'd say and I'm not even joking I think like. You know stay tuned into communities like this I think I think it's. I think these things are really cool I think. You know maybe in a put some put more simply like just participate you know in some. What I think is cool about what you've assembled is I think it's. It's driven by people's desire to like. Not hack life but but but be proactive and participate and not be apathetic and I like that I think that's I think that's a that's a positive community and I think. I think we all we all get really tired you know I think people it modern life is stressful and tiring and confusing and I think it's. I think you know Nietzsche has that great thing that idea of self overcoming of like that that the overman is not like a perfect person it's it's actually the person who's perpetually trying to. Self overcome and I really like that idea I think I think I think. Like staying staying engaged in the idea of evolving yourself is really cool so I think it's it's it's awesome that you've got this many people kind of. Linked up together around those ideas. Yeah I really hope people listening no matter how small you might feel or isolated you might feel I know not everyone out there has community like. You are I might have in New York or SF you to make this year the year that you. Astonish yourself with what you can do or be a part of and you know look back. At on December 31st of this year and just it hope to say holy shit I can't believe I was part of X or I did extra self because I don't I think it's a lot easier than people might think.
Where to find Ed (01:23:18)
Edward where can people find you on the interwebs on social to say hello. Keep up to date with what you're not I'm not great at it I I you know I I throw tweets out now and then. Mostly about things I've seen that I like like your time out things I've seen or read that I think. Should find a wider audience or that people appreciate I. What is your hand a letter just my name okay. But I'm I'm I'm not cutting edge on I'm not as I'm not as cutting edge. I am on the crowd funding stuff but I'm not as I'm not as cutting edge with social media as I as I maybe should be I am. Or or I don't know maybe it's good thing probably means you've melted less of your brain yeah. I think about it you know I think about like like. Expanding on you know more robust ways of kind of do it like like what you're doing in a much smaller way but building up more of a of a forum of of interactive conversation but I'm. I'm I got a I got a I got a I got a I got a I got a I got a I got a I got a finish I got a finish things I started might be a cage within a cage yeah exactly I got a thing I started. This is always fun I enjoy hanging out and I appreciate taking the time definitely super fun I really I've. I've I've really enjoyed your books I've enjoyed the kind of I've enjoyed them as a resource and and I think learned a lot and and and I think it's I really do think it's cool that that what you've called the Vated is people who are people who are interested in in in continuing to explore you know like like I think it's it's. That idea. Ongoing education ongoing discoveries the you know that's the zest and things. Yeah you don't you don't necessarily find yourself you create yourself one little step at a time so. Edward thank you again and to everyone listening check out crowd rise dot com forward slash Tim Ferris to see what mischief productive mischief I'm getting up to and as always you can find the show notes links to everything we talked about for our quick dot com forward slash podcast and until next time thank you for listening thanks have a good one. Hey guys this is Tim again just a few more things before you take off number one this is five bullet Friday do you want to get a short email from me would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little more soul of fun before the weekend and five bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week that could include favorite new albums that I've discovered it could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that
Five Bullet Friday (01:26:05)
I've somehow dug up in the world of the esoteric as I do it could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends for instance and it's very short it's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend so if you want to receive that check it out just go to four hour workweek dot com that's four hour workweek dot com all spelled out and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one and if you sign up I hope you enjoy it.
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99 Designs (01:30:18)
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