How to 3x Your Career | Jason Mayden on Impact Theory | Transcription

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Introduction

Intro (00:00)

- Hey everybody, welcome to Impact Theory. You are here my friends because you believe that human potential is nearly limitless, but you know that having potential is not the same is actually doing something with it. So our goal with this show and company is to introduce you to the people and ideas that will help you actually execute on your dreams. All right, today's guest grew up on the south side of Chicago amid unimaginable violence and dreamed of one day working at Nike designing shoes for his hero Michael Jordan. Virtually everyone told him that this dream was ridiculous for somebody like him, but he refused to listen, making his mom take him to shoe stores, not so we could buy something, but so he could sketch the shoes and see if he can improve on them. Nothing came easily for him, but just as Jordan put up a thousand shots a day to improve, he began doing a thousand sketches a day. He persisted and after several rejections, he got a design internship with Nike becoming the first African American to do so. Insanely hungry to make a name for himself, he took all of the projects nobody else wanted. His assignment to reinvent laces, the most boring job in shoes, was actually meant to haze him, but he crushed it so hard that it resulted in him being awarded multiple patents and attracting the attention of Nike founder Phil Knight. He also poured himself completely into another maligned and orphan project known as the barbecue shoe for dads and turned it into the monarch, the highest grossing shoe in Nike's history. While it normally takes roughly 15 years to become a senior designer at Nike, he did it in five. He went on to design shoes for Carmelo Anthony, Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, M&M, and of course, the king himself, Michael Jordan. Not satisfied with being a great designer, however, he went back to school and received his master's degree in business from Stanford, and when he returned to Nike, he worked his way all the way to senior global design director for the Jordan brand. Having fulfilled his dream and wanting to help his son overcome some health issues, he departed Nike after 14 years and is now embarked on his entrepreneurial journey, co-founding Super Heroic Inc, a company focused on creating quality play products for kids. So please, help me in welcoming the real life, Lucius Fox, the media designer at Stanford's D School and CEO of Super Heroic, Jason Maiden. - Very open here to go.

Personal Journey And Insights Into Success

15 year Shoe Designer, Sr. Global Design Dir at Jordan Brand to CEO (02:22)

- Dude, your story is an insane tale of what happens when you are willing to work yourself nearly to death. - Yep. - How did you get the mentality, man? Like, that's crazy. - Yeah, I think, you know, there's several things that I fundamentally believe are true in terms of difficulty and what it gives you. So for me, being born on the South Side of Chicago in a blue collar environment, you don't make excuses for yourself. There's no such thing as anyone starts life, you know, behind the start line. I look at myself as equal to everyone that I'm in a room with and the separation between where I wanna go and where I am is my work ethic. So my mindset is always that anybody can be great, I wanna be the greatest ever at what I do. So everything I touch, everything I pull my time and tell it into, I don't think about being great, I think about how can I be the greatest? And that takes a huge amount of introspection, it takes a huge amount of self-reflection and honesty and it also takes humility 'cause you have to ask for help in order to be the greatest. So-- - That's interesting, I've never heard anybody say that before, that's really, it takes humility to be the greatest.

How did you get that mental to push yourself to being the best? (03:25)

- It does. - So you and I must have grown up roughly at the same time, so I'm not a fan of sports at all, but I had Michael Jordan hanging above my bed, was that shot of him dunking the moon? - Oh yeah, yeah. - There's something about like that era where you could see somebody becoming the greatest of all time in real time, right? It was like, he just transcended this sport, captured everybody's imagination. How much of like your mentality was being literally in Chicago at that time while he's, you know, living legend at the height of his prime? - I would say 100%, 100%, I mean, he didn't make excuses. You never saw Michael get on television and post-game interviews and complain about, you know, the defense, you know, grabbing him too much or the referees not giving him a call. He understood that there's a difference between a response and a reaction. A reaction is very emotionally driven. It's not calculated, it's not thoughtful. A response is strategic, it's intentional, and it's meant to have a person understand your true, you know, disposition or reaction to whatever moment that you're in. Michael was a very calculated analytical person, and I saw him coming to my city, create a name for himself, but also contribute off the court by giving us a tangible example of what it means to overcome every single obstacle possible. So once again, you know, growing up in that era, seeing great athletes like Michael, seeing great athletes like Bo Jackson, Dion Sanders, like these were multi-dimensional people. For the first time, we saw the emergence of the athlete as a brand, a human that was now a walking brand. And I figured, okay, if he can do that for basketball, then why can't I do that for sport and design? Why can't I be that person in my industry? So his work ethic, his ideals, his principles, I learned from him and I just applied it to my craft and my sport, which is design. - How did you learn to deal with suffering, which is something you've talked about, like being necessary to get across the finish line?

To be successful you have to want to step on the field (05:14)

- You know, I encountered suffering at a very early age at the age of seven. When I was in the hospital, I was septicemia, which was a severe blood infection. And it was at that time, in the hospital, where I had to play with children who were terminally ill, children who were in intensive care, children who weren't going home. And I realized like, you know what, there's always someone who is going through more than you. There's always someone that has, you know, real significant problems where you may have an inconvenience. And so while I looked at myself as having a challenge, a health challenge and suffering, I still felt that that was just an inconvenience. It wasn't terminal leukemia. It wasn't, you know, a brain tumor. It wasn't a heart transplant. It was something that I can overcome. So I looked at suffering as way to keep me humble, because, you know, when you think about the archetype of a superhero, they always have an obstacle to overcome. There's always the height of climax. And I don't believe that I'm so great that I don't, you know, have the ability to go through difficult circumstances. I think it's necessary in order to realize the greatness, 'cause when you're tested, you are given the ability to have a testimony. So you can't have a testimony without a test. And just, you know, in my life, I've been tested significantly. And each time, you know, I've developed a new skill set or a new muscle to help me run this race. - Do you like hip hop? - I love it. - Do you write? - I used to. - Because you have a way with language, like there's so many, I'm actually not sure if I've ever taken more notes on anyone. - Anyone?

Let the Influence of Hip Hop Impact Your Swing (06:45)

- I've ever interviewed than you, because you have like all these phrases like, oh God, I would rather try and fail than fail to try. I mean, there were so many things where there was like a rhythm, a cadence, like, is that a way for you to remember things? Do you just have a natural love for language? Like, where does that? - You know what it came from? As I was an insanely shot child, and I read a lot of comic books. And comic books are very short, punchy statements. And I realized that the escapism that came from reading a narrative that was written with the intention of helping you understand, you know, the hero's journey, was different than reading a traditional book. A book is to teach you something. The comic book is to make you feel a certain way. It's a reflection of society. So when I speak now, I think about how do I want people to understand how I reflect back the ideals and principles of a young black male growing up in the world today? How do I do it in a way that's succinct, articulate, you know, vivid and colorful, but at the same time, respected and intelligent. And so hip hop, at its core, became, you know, I would say my Petri dish of experimenting with my own tone of voice. And I try to model myself after Nause, who's my favorite MC? Like his album, Illmatic, was listening to Langston Hughes over beats. I mean, I'm a big fan of jazz, big fan of the written word, but something about the way he writes, man. It's so illustrious, it's so rich, it's so detailed. And I always tell myself, if I can design something that makes people feel how I felt the first time I heard Illmatic, then that's my, I've done my job. - That's something I find interesting about really talented artists in general, and it's really apparent with you, is this concept of being interdisciplinary. Like you've even talked about like, through data analytics, you've looked at like what the future, Michael Jordan's gonna be, and he's gonna be black and Cuban. I mean, it was like this fascinating sense of intersection. Like explain to people, and I don't think they have to be an artist, 'cause I think a lot about that in my own life, like where, how do you pull from all these different areas? Why is that powerful? How can you do it systematically? What does that look like? - Yeah, I think a lot of that natural ability to be a polymath has been labeled as having ADD. If you look at historically people that have been masters in various disciplines, they all had one thing in common, curiosity. And curiosity is something that starts to childhood, but it's stripped from you as you grow older, 'cause they tell you, pick a lane, focus on this, become that, and we subscribe to labels people place on us, and that limits our potential. So I just fundamentally believe that I don't let someone else place their limits on me. My limit is the limit I set, and I believe I'm limitless. I believe that if you have a life and you don't utilize it, and you settle for just being average, then that's a waste of the gift of life. Like every day I wake up, when people ask me, how you doing, I say, man, I'm thankful, I woke up today, 'cause that's the first gift you're given. There's another chance to be great. So, I think, like you mentioned, people who are multi-disciplinary, people who are curious and inquisitive, the reason why they become great is because they don't believe that they truly have mastered their craft. They don't feel settled in what they've developed. They don't feel as if they're the best-shitting. For me, my mindset is that, right now, it's daytime where we are, which means I have the advantage over my competition, 'cause they may be sleep. But when it becomes nighttime, it's their day. So I refuse for them to get ahead of me. So I stay up when they get up, 'cause they may be more talented, they may be smarter, but they won't outwork me. Because that's where excellence comes from. It's the small things done well consistently over time, and it's never the smartest, it's the person who runs the hardest and who doesn't quit that wins. And I'm just willing to push myself and break down my own insecurities to build up my confidence and my skillset.

Staying in the Present Book: Delivering Happiness (10:11)

- Do you know, did you ever meet Tim Grover? - I did, yeah, one time. - So, Tim, in his book, Relentless, and I've had the very good fortune of meeting him and interviewing him, and he was the first person that really talked about the darkness. Like, when I, so I've seen so much footage on you, you can't imagine, and you are so upbeat and positive and bright and sunny, and when you're with your family, oh my God, like it literally it pours out of you, but there's, like, you're so driven. Do you have, like, a foot in, like, the darkness? Do you know, like, how to balance? Like, how does that work for you? - Yeah, I mean, you know, actually, you have to have both. So if there's extreme darkness, there has to be extreme, like, is duality to everything. So, I just tend to bias towards what I want to see in the world more, you know, what I wanna see more and more, which is joyfulness, which is being present, which is being, you know, thankful. And so, that's what drives me. It's the things people told me I couldn't become. It's the negative circumstances that I come from. I don't let that limit me, limit me at all. That's my catalyst, because I look at it like, okay, why not me? I've already overcome this. Why can't I go and start a company? Why can't I build something that's meaningful? Why can't I create this new paradigm shift in the way we look at the world as big giant super hero training facility? Because if I looked at it the other way, it started to take, you know, the count of, okay, well, I can't do this because of where I come from. I can't do this because of how I look. I can't do this. I wouldn't start anything. Everybody will wake up each day doing subtraction. I look at my life as addition. You know, I wake up and say, what can I do today to add to my skillset? What can I do today to add to someone else's joy? What can I do today to serve someone else? So when you keep a mindset of service, your problems and that darkness become smaller, 'cause you're not gonna focus on your own insecurities, your own problems. You're gonna figure out a way to amplify someone else's experience. So I go through life looking, you know, looking at people as an opportunity for me to serve. 'Cause while I wait in my blessing, I can be a blessing. And that's how I kind of balance that. When you focus solely on your darkness, everything becomes about you, you become selfish and you could be driven to a point where it becomes toxic. And that's why you see some people implode once they get to where they're going because they look up and no one around them really wants them there. For me, I have this mentality that if everyone around me is fed, then no one is starving, then I don't have to worry about people being villainous or hungry and trying to take from me. So the way I feed is through time, through joyfulness, through good energy. Because sometimes all you need to do is tell a person that they matter and show up. That's the greatest gift to acknowledge people in the world. That's so busy and so hurried to slow down and be present and to acknowledge a person's existence is to me how you balance out the darkness with the light when you're driven. - I love that.

Getting up in the dark (12:52)

I think that's amazing. And as somebody that ascended so rapidly through Nike, like to move through a traditional culture like that in a way that's positive is pretty spectacular. Do you think that was part of why you were able to move so quickly because people wanted you to win?

How did you win so fast at Nike? (13:07)

- No, quite the opposite. Quite the opposite, no. No, no. - I'm just honest. - Yeah, no, I've never, some people want me to win. Just like anybody, man, I've had my setbacks and corporates, setbacks in life. My strategy's very simple. I'm very honest with myself, so I figure out the ways people can tell me no. And then I take that no off the table. So the last thing they can say to me is a yes. And what I mean by eliminating the way people can tell you is taking an inventory of your weaknesses, taking an inventory of your gaps in your offense or your defense, your skill set, your mindset, finding someone to learn from or going and put yourself through a class to learn it. So I knew when I got to Nike that I was very good at drawing, drawing and designing are two different things. I can draw anything, but designing something is very different. It's a process, it's strategic, it's intentional, it's driven through research and empathy, and I didn't have that skill set. So I went and I found people that did and I learned from them. But then when I learned from them, I added my layer to it, which was narrative. That was my core differentiator. I said, everybody else can do that well. I tell stories really, really well. So I'm gonna double down on being known for this one thing, but I'm gonna go and ask for help from other people. The second thing I did is I didn't focus heavily on building deeper relationships in my discipline. I went to parts of the company where they normally didn't see designers. So I spent time in supply chain and finance and inventory management and compliance and legal. And I asked them how did their job impact my job. So I humbled myself because I knew even though I draw this picture, somebody had to have the budget. Somebody had to get this thing produced. Someone was making sure it was shipped and got through customs. How did my job impact theirs and vice versa? In doing that, my name was now in rooms of really big decision makers that had never would have interfaced with me had I only focused on being cool with the cool kids. And so my strategies is very, it's methodical. It's almost like I look at life like chess. I'm thinking five steps out. And in order to do that, I have to be honest with what I'm not good at. And I learned that from Michael. He always would say turn your weakness into your strength. And they said he didn't have a jump shot. He developed the jump shot. He didn't have defense. He wanted to put defensive player to the year. So every year I do a tear down and I do an inventory of what I did well, what I wish I could have done better and what I liked about the experience in between. So it's like I like I wish I wonder. - You actually write these things down. - That's my new year. I don't do New Year's resolutions. I do like New Year's inventory and say okay. - I like I wish I wonder. - I like I wish I wonder. I like that I did this. I wish I would have done that. I wonder if I tried that, what would have happened. That constant introspection is almost like, in a lot of ways it's driven through my love for stoic philosophy. I'm a big fan of Marcus Aurelius in the book, the Emperor's Handbook. He did a very great job of jotting down his thoughts in an introspective manner about his troops and his country and what he wanted to be as a leader. And I try to do that with myself. So at hard and part, Lucius Fox, part stoic philosophy. - One thing I love that I heard you talk about was how Marcus Aurelius, even though parts of his army wanted to assassinate him and they were coming for him, he didn't respond emotionally.

You're a big fan of stoic philosophy (16:04)

He didn't freak out. There was an acceptance of okay, this is human nature. This is the game that we're playing. Is that a non-emotional mindset that you try to use as well? - Yeah, yeah. I mean your greatest enemy is your enemy. It's the conversation you have in your mind. So all my heroes are people who have mastered themselves, not a discipline, not an industry but themselves. Bruce Lee, he mastered himself. Your Marcus Aurelius, he mastered himself. Batman, mastered himself. These are people, he really or not, who figured out that the battle that's within is greater than the battle that's in the world. So once you're able to fight that consistently and calm yourself and control yourself and be methodical and specific about how you respond, nothing will surprise you. You're immovable at that point. You won't waver, you won't break. And I always tell my kids, like, "Yo, you can bend, that's okay." But you'll never break. Breaking is when you feel like you can't come back from something. Bending is when you get punched but you get back up. It's a palm tree versus a dry twig. Palm trees have been over but they don't snap when the wind blows. And so people like Marcus Aurelius are important in my life because you don't see that anymore. You don't see people who have stuff thrown at them and they respond with logic. You know, critical discourse is no longer an art form. You know, rhetoric and learning how to have a healthy debate is no longer a practice. It's just, I go out, I say what I want, I don't think about the repercussions. Words are things and they leave a residue of positivity and negativity on the person and on the place where you say those things. So I really focus on making sure that the words that come out of my mouth, you know, they bring life, they don't destroy. And in order to do that, I have to check myself, which is a constant battle. Because sometimes I just wanna have my stream of constances, consciousness and just rant. But other times I know that that's not healthy, you know. - I really wish you were a rapper. Like Jesus dude, like you really have an amazing way with not just words, you have an amazing way with concepts.

How to pick what to read (18:09)

And I'm gonna assume that it's because you read so much, I know you're a big fan of history. How do you pick like what to read? Like you are clearly very well read. How do you decide? - You know, I always ask people what they're reading. So when I meet an interesting person, you know, whether it's on a plane or it's in a meeting or if it's conversations like this, I'm like, "Well, books are you reading?" 'Cause you know, that's the quickest way to learn from others. But also I try to get outside of my comfort zone. I break my own patterns. Like I will go to, usually I wanna go to fashion and art and design sections and bookstores online or browsing when I'm shopping. But I'll switch it up and I'll say, "You know what, let me go into a gardening book. Let me just read gardening. I don't know why, let me try this out today." 'Cause I feel like there's a red thread that connects every single thing on this planet. You know, we talk about the golden section and we talk about divine mathematics and how everything has a ratio and a proportion to it that makes us unified. I believe the same thing is true with information. It's when you search for consistency across multiple, you know, buckets of knowledge, then you realize that the human experience is a shared experience. Whether you love gardening, whether you love physics and finance, whether you love art and fashion is, something about those things that exist in a way that's consistent. So I'm just a big fan of searching for that. And, you know, I don't reject knowledge. I'm open to other people's opinions. And so, you know, right now I'm reading a book called "How Children Succeed." Very compelling argument about our education system and having the framework of, do you focus on mastery of a skill set? Or do you focus on determination and grit? Which one is more important for children to have? At the same time, I'm reading a book about quantitative easing and why that became a thing. So I try to find right brain and left brain concepts and read them at the same time. I joke and say that, you know, ADD is a superpower, you know, 'cause I have ADD. But it's the way that gives me that balance, you know, something creative and inspirational is something highly analytical and technical. I kind of have to do both at the same time.

Mastery vs GRIT (20:16)

- So where do you come down on the argument about kids? Do you think it's mastering a skill or do you think it's grit and determination? - I think it starts with grit and determination, which leads to mastery. 'Cause without grit, you don't stick at a task. It's like, if you wanna perfect your jump shot, you get in the gym and you keep shooting, right? That's grit. And after a while, you master your jump shot. So I think you need both. It just depends on which one is encouraged and celebrated. I think we've over-indexed on celebrating mastery. And we've under-indexed on celebrating discovery and what you get through play and failure. 'Cause failure is a gift, 'cause you learn what you don't know at that point. And so in our household, we say, either we win or we learn. There's no such thing as losing. You only lose when you stop trying. So as long as you keep trying, you won't lose, you'll be further than where you started. So I can't tell people how to raise their children, but I purposefully give my kids a safe environment, controlled environment to fail in. So that they, you realize what you're made of when you get hit in the face for the first time. It's like, oh, I'm still alive. I got my tooth knocked out, but I'm still standing. So I try to do that for them in a controlled way. So when they get into the world, and they start to have that, you know, that interpersonal dialogue over, ah, should I quit? Ah, man, I'm so scared. The voice that's in their head is a positive one. And they know, like, I did it before I can do it again. So I think you need both. It just depends on how you reward and praise those, you know, the grit versus the mastery conversation. - You said that introspection is a huge part of your success.

Learning introspection (21:39)

Did you learn that? Is it something that people can improve on? - That's, yeah, something I learned. Something I learned. One, 'cause I'm a middle child, so I had no choice but to, that was my way of navigating, like, man, how do I figure out how to get out of trouble? And how do I get out of not being blamed for stuff? But, you know, I think, is people can improve on introspection. And how I do it in my life, as I ask myself, whether it's a circumstance where a person doesn't like me, or it's a difficult situation, I always stop and say, well, what did I do? What did I do to cause this? 'Cause I contributed to it. Even when people, you know, people talk about the concept of haters, and how you should be happy when you have haters, 'cause it means you're succeeding. I look at it like, okay, there's a reason that person hates me. There's a reason. Now, I may not have to agree with it. It's none of my business to even know why, but I have to acknowledge it. I don't have to accept it, but I do have to acknowledge it. And if there's a little bit of truth in everything, and that person hates me, then I have to say, okay, am I showing up as arrogant and cocky, and making it intriguing and insecurity in that person? Am I acting selfish or ungrateful? And that person's like, Jason should be more thankful for what he has. Like, what is it about me that makes that person feel that way? And then that forces me to take an inventory once again, like, you know what? Yeah, that tweet or that image, yeah, I was kind of cocky. Oh, that thing I did, that I could see how that person could not like me. Okay, I need to take that into account. 'Cause it's none of our business and what people think of us. But we do have to acknowledge that if there is something out there, and it's a chance for me to get better, I'm all for it. So if a person has something to say about me, positive or negative, I look at it as a learning opportunity. And I force myself to listen, even if I don't agree, 'cause it gives me a chance to improve. And if you wanna be the greatest at something, you have to be open to improving. There's no way around it. You can't say, I'm good, I'm done. I said, I'm the best ever and I don't have to develop a new skill set. Now, I mean, every day I'm searching for ways to add to my game, you know? I use a lot of sports analogy. So, you know, one day I have, you know, practice on my jump shot, then it's my post moves and it's my defense, but that's how I look at design. It's like, one day is, you know, design research. The next day is business modeling. The next day is sketching. However I can get better, that's what I wanna do. That's what I wanna do.

Designs strength in numbers (23:46)

- Were there other things that Jordan taught you specifically about becoming the greatest or just getting ahead? - The people you surround yourself with, you know? Everybody that you put in your inner circle should have one thing that they do better than you. That way you're always a student. So if you look at Michael's inner circle, it's people that have significant skill sets. They're the Michael Jordan's of their industry and he learns from them, which is fun and weird to say like, oh, I'm Michael Jordan, but I'm surrounded myself with Michael Jordan's of their industry and he talks in that way. I try to find people that I wish I had their skill set and I befriend them and I hang out with them and I learn from them and it keeps you sharp. It gives you a different set of inspiration points to pull from. And so his philosophy and I agree with it is the greatest, I would say, leaders on the planet are also the greatest curators. They don't create a lot, but they curate thoughts and they put it together and they put their perspective on it. I try to do the same thing. I'm like, man, this person's amazing at this, this person's amazing at that. How can I learn from them and then put my spin on it? That's helped me so much by being a curator because it gives you an embarrassment of riches in terms of information. And information is the greatest medium to use to create. And if you have a single focus and your information's limited, then your outcome, the products that you produce are always the same, just different versions of the same thing. So by hanging out with people who have knowledge in areas where I don't, I feel like I get to pull a unique inspiration. Most designers don't even know who Marcus Aurelius is. I learned about him from hanging out with the person who was the retired general and he was telling me about leadership from a military perspective. - You ended up with the retired general?

Leadership And Personal Growth

Leadership Is a Behavior (25:24)

- Man, so random, I was in an airport in Santa Barbara and I asked his old gentleman, like, what are you reading? He was reading that book. And I was asking him, why did he read it? He was like, well, son, this is how leaders are born. I was like, what do you mean? I asked him, like, well, why? And after about five was, he just was like, listen, here's the dude, I'm gonna give you this book. It's gonna change your life. It's gonna show you exactly why leadership is critical to do anything great. Like you have to learn what it means to be a leader. Leadership is not a position, it's a behavior. And you can improve that behavior. It's not like you get a title or not your leader. Like, no, if you, and my dad always says, if you're a leader and no one's following you, you just a dude taking a walk. And so he gave me the book and then coincidentally, a young man that I was mentoring. - The book was, and personal. - Emperor's handbook. - Yeah. - And a young man I was mentoring sent me a copy of the book. So I was like, okay, this is. - Wow. - The universe is telling me to read it. I'm a big fan of just talking to people randomly, all the time. I hate seeing people sit by themselves and no one acknowledges them. So I'm the person that's like, hey, how you doing good morning? Strike up a conversation and just put good energy into their world and walk away. And normally, you know, I walk away with unique contacts or unique experience or in this case, new knowledge. So I don't know, man, I'm just excited about life. Like, I'm just a giant kid, you know? - I was gonna ask you how you stay open. Like one of the things that I think is most critical 'cause a lot of people have encountered the same people and ideas that you have, but they haven't been changed by it. And that to me is like, when people ask me, how do you get ahead, how do you be successful? It's like, you have to open yourself up to actually being changed. Like when you read a book, stop and like really think, like how can I use this? How do I put it to work? Is that something that's just always come naturally to you or was that an insight someone gave you? - You know, I think you came naturally because I was, like I said, as a kid, you know, I joke about being a middle child. I joke about being quiet, but when you're quiet and you're smaller than everyone and you're introvert, you can hear more than everyone else 'cause you don't talk that often. So you pull in information and you can get better at it. So I learned how to speak publicly from watching very confident, popular people 'cause that wasn't me as a kid. Like my older brother was the man. Like everybody, every girl, dudes, everybody loved him. I wasn't that kid. I was the weird little nerd who, I was like the black goony. It was great. I mean, it worked out for me. But just by being quiet and still and being invisible, you know, that became my superpower. Like I was able to see everything and learn and I got better and added to skill sets. And when it was my time to have something to say, I felt more confident. And so I think it's not about being open to change, it's about acknowledging that you have to change in order to grow 'cause no one is comfortable with ambiguity. That's a lie. People say, oh man, that's a lie. You just, you know, I talk about it often. You have to be willing to go into ambiguous situations, but also acknowledge that change is part of life. You grow up, you leave home, you change addresses, you change jobs, change is a constant theme in our existence. The sooner you become comfortable with that concept, you're free at that point. 'Cause you're open as you say to letting in universe, letting whatever it is you pray to a believer in, you know, divinely inspire you and guide you in a way that forces you to remember that it's not about you. It's not about you. You know, this moment isn't happening by you, it's happening through you. So that's what I do. I always tell myself, this isn't mine. This is something that was given to me this little moment. What do I wanna do with it? Do I wanna cover it or do I wanna create something that I can share? And I just, I wanna create something that I can share. So that helps me evolve, helps me stay in constant motion because I don't wanna be stagnant. I don't wanna be a designer store.

Service as Meditation (29:11)

So I have to evolve, you know. - A designer store? - Yeah. - Like that. Do you meditate or do you just like think while you drive? Like these words are the result of a lot of hours of thinking. When do you do said thinking? - All the time. I'd never stop thinking. - Do you carve out like quiet time or anything? - No, no. I mean, you know, I would say my quiet time is when I'm serving other people. That's my meditation, is doing something for someone else. 'Cause when I'm quiet, the way my mind works is I need to create. If I'm in a room and I'm trying to breathe and close my eyes, I'm thinking like, I'm actually draw that. I should make that. I wake up and I start making it. So in order for me to turn off my brain, I have to do something that I won't benefit from, which is literally helping someone else. You know, whether it's a service project in my community, jumping on a phone with someone who needs advice, you know, showing up at a friend's house who is feeling a little bit down and depressed, that's my form of meditation, a service. And in doing that, it frees me from the burden of having to be perfect, having to be, you know, have the answer. So when I come back to the thinking mode, putting on my thinking cap, I'm more lucid in my thoughts because I've had that breather to focus on someone else. And it's helpful. It's a helpful exercise to give you, you know, some people do it through mindfulness, you know, they have the coloring books for adults. My version of that is, like I said, showing up and serving people. - So your new company is about facilitating play.

Staying Free (30:33)

It has a heavy shoe involvement, if I'm not mistaken. What do you do to stay free? 'Cause you've said, like, I really wanna be childlike, I want the mind of a child. Like, what do you do to cultivate that? - Yeah, hang out with kids. Literally, yeah, hang out with my kids. I mean, they're my favorite people on the planet. I volunteer a lot. Read a lot of comic books. You know, I look at the world and childlike way. You know, adults walk through cities and they look straight, kids walk through cities and they look up. So I walk through cities and I look up. I try to see the world, how kids see the world. I try to look at everything with fresh eyes. I never just get fixated on my destination. I keep my head on my swivel and I look for those moments of delight and joy that exists. - What I find really interesting about you is, if I were to take sort of any like three to five minute segment of this interview, you're gonna sound like different people from the moment where you were talking about like, I'm gonna be the best in the world to like, I just want the mind of a child and I walk around and experience things.

Forcing Functions (31:18)

That's really interesting. But what makes it the more fascinating is you're not an empty dreamer. You're not somebody who just pontificates. When your brother, I think you were high school-ish. Your brother worked at Foot Locker. And you would go and quiz him about the shoes, the boxes, the everything so that you could get a better sense of how you could design shoes. And then when you go to Nike, you've already talked about like going to the different departments, finding out how it all puts together, but like traveling around to China and finding out how to use different textiles and materials and you've talked about spider silk and finding, like, how do you take all the ideas? Like you sketch something out. How do you go from this is just an idea and most people stop here at the drawing to weaving spider silk into it made from a very specific place in China that you know the manufacturer you've been on the floor. Like how do you bring it all together? Yeah, so I think, you know, ideas remain ideas until you give them a deadline. So I give myself force and functions. So I have a-- Worsing functions? Worsing functions. What's that? So a force and function is whether it's a an intentional behavior that you do consistently. And so one example is on my social media feed, I have this thing I started called 77 Days of Joy. So now that I'm wrapping up to launch my company, it was 77 Days from when I started this first post, I gave myself a forcing function. Well, one time a day I have to think about something that I have in my life that brings me joy. So as an entrepreneur, it's very difficult. You know, you get hard days, days, you just want to throw the tile in. So I gave myself this thing that I publicly said. Every day I'm a post one thing that makes me happy for 77 Days straight. Having that as a forcing function makes me stop. Think about what I'm thankful for. Post and then I realize, okay, it's all good. The day is okay. So I do the same thing with the design process. I have an idea and I'll be like, all right, I want to, you know, how might we, you know, make people feel like they can fly? Then I'll say, okay, flight, what's the principles of flight? It takes lift, takes drag, okay, the underlying principle is propulsion. Okay, propulsion. What does that mean for human beings? Is it the quickest first step? Is it leaping ability? Is it getting back on defense? Is it hill to toe transition? Okay, you know what that could be? It could be quick first step. How will we do quick first step? We got to reduce the weight. We got to reduce. So it starts in this big, massive, hairy audacious goal to be hacked and then it goes into the idea and then I decipher the idea in very tactical and tangible steps. And as I'm continuing this dialogue, I start to see, okay, there's an example of a product here that does it, that becomes inspiration. Then I find the material, you know, vendor who made that product and I call them. So all I really do is I don't settle for the idea that idea is not the reward. It's taking the idea and seeing someone react to it. And in order to get from A to B, you need forcing functions, you need deadlines, you need a process. And it's so crazy because creative people say, oh, I don't believe in the word process, but you need it. You need guard rails because if you don't know how to say notice stuff, then everything becomes an opportunity. So my design process, like I said, I start with the idea and I dissect it, dissect it, dissect it till it's very simple and I can say it in one sentence and then I try to bring it to life. Because if you can't say it to an 88 year old, it's too complicated. So that's my barometer. I explain it to my grandma and if she says, baby, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm like, OK, I explain it to my daughter when she gives me the Tim Duncan face like that. You know, that's my barometer. It's like my grandmother and my daughter because they're very honest with me. So if I can get both of them to understand and say, oh, that's cool, then I did my job. So that's another thing, forcing functions in trusted editors. So those two things helped me get from my idea to execution. Because they hold-- so the trusted editors hold you accountable and forcing functions push you to make a decision. Without those two, then you're just spinning your own will. Do you have a certain process for-- so we've got our guardrails. We have a deadline. So it's not just a dream. It's now a goal. But it involves actually going out and figuring out text styles.

converse Currys (35:39)

It goes from how do I actually translate this? And I'm actually maybe more fascinated about what led you into your brother's store because you had no resources then when you're with Nike. And there's sort of enough energy where you go around the corner and just say, hey, where do we source Spidersilk? But how did you break down that process before you got to Nike of just like-- I mean, even like-- so maybe forget the shoes. But you convinced your college not only to let you into a degree that they didn't think you were ready for, but you convinced them to let you do your own major that didn't actually exist. How do you-- who do I talk to? Like, what do I say? Like, how do you go through that process of breaking these things down into executable steps? Yep. Great question. It starts with-- the willingness to put yourself out there, ask a question that's uncomfortable. And so when I-- at CCS, when I started my own major, everybody that went to that school wanted to do cars. And I was like, well, I can't afford a car. My car is footwear. That's my mode of transportation. So I want to take those principles and apply it to this discipline, but there was no way to do it. And I figured I'd never seen someone create their own major. Why not me? Why not just try? That's it. I mean, that's my problem. It's no secret sauce. I know what I want to try. And I go and ask the person that I think can help me. And if they can't help me, I say, well, could you tell me who can? Could you refer me to someone else? Normally, people will. If they don't want to help you, they'll push you off on someone, which may be the biggest blessing ever. Or they'll connect you to someone that can't help. So it's just about putting yourself out there. And going to the person you have access to, you don't have to have access to the right person. You just have to have access to a person that you feel comfortable sharing your idea with. That person may know someone. And if they don't, now you have a person who at least is going to help you think through how do you move forward. So I search for the experts I have access to. So my brother was an expert at footwear. He was what I had access to. He worked at Footlocker, which was to me the closest thing to the footwear industry. So I went to him. He's my expert. Can I see the product? Can I learn about it? Then I learned about the concept of a sales rep. Oh, the sales rep works for the company? They actually said, oh, OK, cool. Let me talk to the sales rep. Then the sales rep said, yeah, you know we have this department called HR, where you can get an internship. What's an internship? Oh, we give college kids jobs during the summer. So I have to go to college. OK, well, which college is? I don't know. So you can see how it builds on itself. It compounds on itself. But I tell people, start where you have access to. And keep asking them questions and asking to connect you to one person that they know. And then you see this hockey stick effect where you get exponential contacts, exponential opportunities, exponential networking, all through starting with Western front of you. So many times people get discouraged because they feel like they need to jump to the most visible person, the famous person, the powerful person.

Hockey Stick (38:27)

But the person at the front desk, the admin of that executive is more important than the executive. The admin controls the calendar. Talk to them. Get to know them. Ask them how should you approach it. And then he or she will put you in touch with the right person to grow you and groom you. All right, super random right turn here. You've talked about your friend who got shot as being the starting gun to your life. But I can never quite figure out why. Why do you see that as the starting gun for your life? Well, I mean, where I grew up and where kids are still growing up, they don't believe that being 21 is a real thing. You're basically living to make it to the age of 16. And anything after that is kind of like, I don't know what happens next. So the age of 14, when I saw that, it made me realize several things. One, I didn't want that to be my outcome. Two, that no matter where I am in life, no matter what's going on, no matter what disagreement I have with a person, violence is not the answer. And so I wanted to be a person of peace, a person of great compassion and love. And I knew I needed to figure out a way to get myself out of an environment that would turn my heart cold. So if I stayed there and I started to accept that as my reality and I normalized this extreme violence, I normalized how people were systematically put in socioeconomic situations where they started to have these savage behaviors. And I accepted that as my reality, I gave up on my life. And going back to the age of seven, where I was already spared once, I felt like it would be a waste of this gift I was given if I set here and I settled for this is my reality. And I told myself, one of us has to make it out. Why not me? And if I make it out, I'm not gonna pretend like I'm not from there. I'm gonna celebrate it to let people know that yes things go wrong in this community, yes there's violence, yes there's poverty, but there's also beauty, there's also creativity, entrepreneurship, possibilities. We just have to look at it a different way. The children in this neighborhood, the people I grew up with, they're not bad people. They just don't have hope. They don't have resources. So we don't have any hope, we don't have any resources and you're angry because the world walks right by you and blames you for your circumstances, even though you didn't create them, you're born into them, you lash out in a way that's self-destructive. And that's what Chicago was for me. It still is like that. Very limited jobs, very limited opportunities. And it results in a lot of activity that is negative. But I just use it as motivation. 'Cause if I can make it through that, if I can see that and I still see the world for what it could become, and I still have a growth mindset instead of a fixed mindset, then I make it possible for someone else from that neighborhood to succeed. 'Cause everything I do is not for my own benefit. I just believe that I have to live a life where I find a person who's gonna replace me in my job. And whether that kid is from Chicago or from Columbia, my wife is from, or from Bangladesh or from Japan, I don't care. But my life story should be an example of what's possible when you just fully believe in yourself, without any fear. 'Cause I didn't look at it as me running from Chicago.

Experiences, Challenges, And Future Endeavors

What was your perspective when you moved to Los Angeles? (41:31)

I was running towards what I believed I can be in my life. Which is the exact person I am today. And I didn't wanna waste my life because I knew that it would be disrespectful to my two friends who would never have the opportunities that I had. And there was moments where one of them who was involved in that situation, right when I moved and went away to college, he pulled me to the side and he said, "Listen, I'm a dying Chicago, but you, you're not. "Like, you're different than us. "You need to go. "You need to do something with your life "because none of us will." For some people that's a heavy burden, but for me, I took that as like, that's my mission. To not waste my life, to not waste my gift, to not waste my blessings because they didn't have the same opportunity. So my mission is not to fix broken adults, it's to build stronger children. 'Cause those stronger children grow up to be broken adults. And they grow up to do the things that my friends did. So all I'm doing with every project I work on is trying to save my friends before they turn into those two people. - Wow. You've said that minorities and people that grow up hard have some of the same skills or develop some of the same skills that the most successful entrepreneurs have to develop. What are those skills and why do you think that becomes such a great proving ground? - Yeah, I think, you know, when we talk about startup culture, we talk about being lean and efficient and, you know, being scrappy. I call that being broke. I call it being, you know, it's in, when you grow up and, you know, I always joke 'cause I have some really, really, really successful friends that are entrepreneurs. And they say, "Yeah, man, it was so hard, man." It was for a long time when we were eating ramen noodles and I'm like, "Bro, I grew up eating ramen noodles." That was what I ate. So you, we've almost turned struggle in entrepreneurship world into like this badge of honor, like unless you eat ramen noodles and you're not scrappy. - Right. - So while we celebrate that, as an entrepreneurial trait, we also demonize it for people who don't have a lot of things. We say, "Ah, why don't you just pull yourself up by your bootstraps? Ah, why don't you go out and fight for it? Get a good education, get a good job." It's like, yeah, but what if I have to choose between reading a book and learning or getting a job picking fruit because I'm 14 and my family needs me to contribute to the overall household finances? So the best entrepreneurs that I've met have come from, you know, other countries where they didn't have anything. So when they talk about, "Hey, here's a million dollars, be scrappy," they stretch out a million dollars for a really long time. They take on multiple jobs. If they don't know how to do something, they learn it themselves. That's exactly what happens, at least in my humble opinion, for people who don't grow up with a lot or people who are often regarded as a second class citizen or a minority, whether you're a woman or a person or a color or a person with a disability, 'cause I think we don't talk enough about disabilities as a minority group. They're severely overlooked. You have to have a sense of resilience. You have to have a sense of self-confidence and fearlessness when you're in that environment, 'cause there's bold to come from nothing and say, "I'm gonna become something," with no evidence of your greatness, no family name, no money, no degree, and you say, "I'm gonna be something bigger than what this world tells me I can be." That takes a huge amount of like, yeah, I wanna say the word, but I'm-- - Balls? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was trying to find a more eloquent way to say it, but you know, balls, it just takes that. And I think it's the same thing with an entrepreneur. Whether you come from a family that's well off to start anything that hasn't been done before to put anything new into the world, it's hard. It's really hard. So there is no difference between, I would say an entrepreneur and a person who comes from an impoverished background because it's the same thing, you're overcoming the odds. That's it. I'm a unicorn 'cause I made it out of Chicago, not because I have a billion dollar company. That's the thing that people need to realize. Like, I'm a walking miracle, the fact that I'm a young black male, I'm stable, I have my wife and kids, I'm doing something positive. In the eyes of society, I'm not supposed to exist. But that's a false narrative because I know millions of dudes like that. Same thing with an entrepreneur is who are successful. Oh man, this one person built this billion dollar company, man, that's your unicorn, like no, but what about the person who did the 100 million dollar company? Are the person who exited for 50? That's still successful. That's still success, but we've, like I said, we've romanticized it, we want the most extreme versions. Like the kid who grew up in a cave and became a CEO, the person who exited for 20 billion. But there are these different levels of success in between that we need to acknowledge. And so that's why I talk about the similarities between people who are impoverished and people who are overlooked and founders.

How did you apply the experience from working in a field to starting a business? (46:05)

'Cause it is the same thing, it's your overcoming the odds. Right. So what advice do you have for the kid that has to take the job, picking berries? So what do you tell them? I'll tell them that use it as building blocks, you know? So how I started in entrepreneurship was, I used to cut grass and shovel snow. And it was, you know, I'm not a fan of gardening, it's not my thing. It was a means to an end. You know, I went to buy sneakers, I needed to pay for my own school clothes and take care of myself so I found a way to work. But what I found in that experience was how to talk to people, how to set my prices, you know, how to negotiate, how to schedule, how to organize. So don't look at it as a burden, like, "Ah, I gotta do this for my family." Look at it like, okay, what skill set can I learn from this? That's transferable to something else. So if your kid has to wake up at four o'clock in the morning, three thirty in the morning to go and help your family, you know, pick fruit, think about it this way. Okay, you're picking fruit, you're waking up early. Along that user journey, other areas of improvement that you specifically are uniquely gifted to disrupt. Is it, hey, maybe there's a system where, you know, me as a child of a migrant worker, maybe I get a different type of reminder on my phone. Maybe I can create an app, maybe I can do this, maybe I can do that. Look for ways to leverage your circumstances and turn them into opportunities. That's all I did. This, the fact that I had to, you know, shovel snow and cut grass to put my own, buy my own school clothes, I started to realize the value of money. I realized that not everything I paid for was really worth it. So I'm very particular about crafting how things are made 'cause I think about that when I make a product. Somebody worked really hard and saved all that money. And this may be the first time they can afford something I worked on. I have to have good quality product. - I love that. - I have to figure out something that's more than just a shoe. It has to be a story. So all these little things, it's just reframing, man. It's not a struggle, it's an opportunity. It's not a problem, it's a possibility.

Find Joy in the Struggle (48:00)

Like I just, I don't have a fixed mindset. I don't feel sorry for myself. You know, I look at it as an opportunity. So we gotta keep encouraging these kids. Like, yes, you should climb. But also as you're climbing, don't put your joy in the future. Find joy in the moment. Even if it's the most hard labor intensive work, demeaning work possible, find joy in that work. 'Cause that will help you in the future when you're a leader 'cause you'll be able to say, man, I get what it's like to be a janitor 'cause I was a janitor. Like I clean toilets. I was a mover, a janitor. I know what that's like. So I treat those people with so much respect 'cause I know what that person is doing. And that's given me a very unique sense of empathy for my users when I create products. So my whole thing, I guess, in summary is look at your struggle as a immersive empathy. Put yourself in this position to learn and then figure out how you can help other people from your struggle. - Look at your struggle as immersive empathy.

Jason's Run For Mayor (48:55)

That's amazing. Amazing. All right. - Really fast for running out of time. - Which I'm horrified by. I could go on with you forever. Are you actually thinking of running for mayor? - I am. - Of Chicago? - I am. - How about that? - So, you know, I don't, as you could tell from my life story, I'm not a person that complains. I'm a person that tries to bring solutions. I think mayors or city officials of the future have to understand three things. The technology environment, which is why I specifically went to the Silicon Valley to have credibility. Two, how to build from scratch to entrepreneur endeavors. I think mayors have to reinvent cities completely in this next generation. Like we're gonna have a very unique American population that would be more transient. They won't buy homes, they won't drive regular cars. So you have to redesign a city. So you need an entrepreneurial mindset as a mayor. And thirdly, you know, being independently wealthy, which is why I started a company, 'cause I don't wanna have to take money from people. I don't want private interest, you know, fueling how I go about governing a city. I wanted to be about the people completely. So all my moves are very specific and strategic because I need to signal when I do run for mayor, whatever period that I've built businesses, I understand technology and infrastructure and where our country has had it. And I'm not doing this for the money or the power of prestige. I'm doing it 'cause it's the right thing to do. So when I go back and I run for mayor of Chicago, I'm excited because I see the city as the world's most open air, beautiful architectural museum. So what's the beautiful thing about museums? You see something, you learn something from it. So I wanna turn Chicago into an open air learning environment. Everything should be something you can interact with and learn from. So when you wanna have a smart city, it's not just streetlights and parking meters, it's everything, the school system, the water, the economic opportunities, the food, everything has to be interactive. Everything has to be part of a big ecosystem. So I'm excited 'cause I put my goals out there so that I hold myself accountable. So when I do run for mayor, no lot of these surprise. People may laugh when they hear it. How's the kid dressed like this gonna do it? But people laugh before and I've done it before. So when I do run, I plan on winning. - One thing you've said about living your dream out loud and naysayers that I found incredibly moving was you said, you have to get numb to the criticism before you can ignore it.

Critics (51:05)

And to get numb to it, you have to like hear it. So that's really moving to me that you're putting it out there not because you think that, oh, I'll put it out and everyone's gonna rush to my aid. You're putting it out because you know that some people help, some are gonna attack and you've gotta get very used to that. You've gotta be very resilient and fight your way through it. I also love you called naysayers. They're like defenders trying to stop me from scoring. What do you mean by that? - Yeah. You know, I mean, the goal, you know, whether it's metaphorical or if it's literal, for me it's to finish my race, meaning my life, sprinting across the finish line. I'm not gonna limp across the finish line, beat up. I'm gonna sprint across the finish line of my life. And so the people who started front of me, who try to stop me, I love it. 'Cause I wasn't running back. So I'm gonna run through you, over you around you. Please, please, please, please step up. Please get in front of me. Please try to stop me. 'Cause that's the only way I get better. And the reason why I save my goals out loud, I explain this to my wife, like, you know, the thing about something that's scary, 'cause it's scary to say you wanna run for a minute. That's like people can make fun of me for that. But then that fear won't conquer me if I say it to a human being, another person. That's the hardest thing is to talk about something you're afraid of to another person. And look them in the eye and say, "I don't know how I do that. Am I smart enough? Am I qualified? But my dream is to be married Chicago one day." That's scary to say. But the one thing that does for me is when I say it and that person doesn't laugh at me, that person doesn't look at me crazy, that person doesn't say, "Oh, dude, you're stupid." Then I've conquered my fear. You have to get it out of your head in order to conquer it. You cannot conquer what you do not acknowledge. And I acknowledge my fears and the security's in front of other people so I can conquer and master them and move on to the next thing. And so when I think about haters and defenders and all that, it's like, man, the only reason they can win is if I don't talk about what I'm afraid of. And when I say that first, then what do they have? What could they say? What could they say about me that I haven't already acknowledged? So it removes the fear. And fear is what stifles so many people from trying to do anything great in life. Fear, failure, fear, rejection. So I address it, I conquer it and I move on. - I love that. All right, before I ask my last question, where can these guys find you online? - They can hit me at Jason Maiden on every social platform. I'm pretty simple, J-S-O-N-M-A-Y-D-E-N on Instagram, on Twitter, Facebook is just my regular name. I'm a regular dude. So there's no special, like J-nasty, 50, none of that stuff. None of that stuff. I'm just very conservative with my naming on social. So pretty easy to find me. - All right, fair enough. What is the impact that you wanna have on the world? - The impact I wanna have in the world is to encourage, enhance, and enable pure physical play for every child. And I qualify a child as anyone with imagination. So if I can have everybody feel like their best play memories are inspired and encouraged by the work that I do in my life, then that's a life worth living. - Wow, it's amazing, Jason. Thank you so much for coming on the show, man. That was incredible. - Appreciate it. - Thank you so much.

Outro (54:07)

All right, guys, he may not have a fancy name, but I'm telling you, until he cuts his hip hop album, I will not be satisfied with life. And I think that it will be an amazing platform for him to run for mayor off of the success of a hip hop artist. And I say that I'm actually only mildly tongue-in-cheek. I'm deadly serious. Like, go back, listen to this episode. I always tell people to listen to things on 2X, especially me, I can't stand myself at 1X. But go back and listen to this one again on 1X. He threw away, like, as an off-handed comment, like, 86 of the most powerful phrases I think have ever heard in my life, not the least of which is immersion empathy. Go back and watch it again. It's incredible. I was freaking out. You gave me the chills. It literally, this guy is amazing. And one of the things we didn't even get a chance to talk about, if he had stayed at Nike, I swear, Phil Knight would be sweating right about now that he was going to take his job. I mean, just that level of ascension so quickly through a company is literally magical to have made it your dream and to be a kid from the south side of Chicago that has a vision of where he's going to go. He put a picture of the Nike campus on his ceiling at college to remind himself that it was a real place and it wasn't a fantasy land and that if he worked towards it, he could actually make it real. To have that level of execution to go in and talk to your brother and look at the boxes that the shoes come in to go and talk to the sales agent to figure out what that means and ask one person to the next to the next. He got rejected from Nike multiple times, kept coming back, literally forced that dream to come true, meets Jordan in his first week there, if I'm not mistaken, drinks everything he can from Jordan, learning at all times, like a sponge, learning introspection, like even just the first like three minute talk that he gave at the beginning of this is transformative if you let it be. Guys, this is one of the most incredible stories of somebody setting their mind to something and making it real starting from nowhere USA and literally making it happen. Watch this one again. He's got a lot of amazing videos out there. Go check them out, you won't regret it.

Conclusion

End (56:05)

All right, this is a weekly show, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe and until next time my friends, be legendary. Take care. - Thank you, thank you guys. - Thank you. - I'm buying the milk like a hip hop out. - Put some milk right now. - Hey everybody, thanks so much for joining us for another episode of Impact Theory. If this content is adding value to your life, our one ask is that you go to iTunes and Stitcher and rate and review, not only does that help us build this community, which at the end of the day is all we care about, but it also helps us get even more amazing guests on here to show their knowledge with all of us. Thank you guys so much for being a part of this community and until next time, be legendary my friends.