The Psychological Tricks To READ ANYONE & Be More CHARISMATIC | Vanessa Van Edwards | Transcription

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Introduction

Intro (00:00)

Right now I think my deepest fear is actually I have this opportunity FOMO. So I constantly have this fear that I'm missing opportunities. I think that's one of the reasons I wrote this book and one of the reasons I'm obsessed with Qs is because I am terrified that I am missing things. I feel like I missed the memo on social interactions. That's my entire career, just trying to write up that memo again. And that really hurt me. It really slowed me down for so many years. It destroyed my confidence. It made me have bad relationships. It made me ignore Qs. I think for a long time I had really toxic people in my life and I didn't spot the Qs. And so I think I'm terrified of underestimating others. I'm terrified of missing things that I shouldn't have missed or not listening to my gut. Vanessa Van Edwards, welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to talk about your book, which feels like this sort of natural progression from Captivate, which smashed. And now I want you to, in as few words as possible, tell me what is charisma?

Understanding Charisma And Communication Techniques

What is charisma (01:02)

Charisma is the perfect blend of being likable and powerful. That was really cool. Boom, homie. We rock that in very few words. Like six words or something. So likable and powerful. So now break those two elements down for me.

Likability (01:23)

So likability. Okay, so I think that what there's, there's a mistake that happens with very smart people. This is the one that we see the most often is really smart, intelligent people. They want to hit you with their smarts. They want to be impressive. And so they come into interaction on a video call and they're like, I want to blow you away. So they mentioned accolades and numbers and fancy facts and rehearsed answers. And people will see them as impressive, capable, powerful, but cold, intimidating, hard to talk to. And so, and this is what the research found. Competence without warmth leaves people feeling suspicious. Suspicious, why is this suspicious? Suspicious, this is from Dr. Susan Fisk that is a direct quote. I memorized it because it took my breath away when I read it because I realized for so long, as you know, I'm a recovering awkward person, I would try to impress people and make sure that they liked me. And so I would try to blow them away with smarts. And the problem is that when you do that, it leaves people feeling suspicious. And that's because when we don't have likeability, likeability softens our power. When we add the warmth plus competence, so likable, friendly, compassionate, trustworthy, plus capable, powerful, impressive, that's the sweet spot. And the study what they did is they had participants look at short clips of politicians. They didn't know these politicians. They just had them walk to his clips of politicians. And they asked them two different questions. Who is warm, likable and trustworthy and who is dominant, powerful and capable? The politicians who had only one of those were not rated as charismatic. They were not as successful. They weren't as successful in real life or just in the study. In the study, they were ranked very low on the charisma skills. They could be seen as trustworthy, but if they weren't also powerful, they were not seen as compelling. They were not seen as convincing. They weren't seen as memorable.

Show up as our warmest competent self (03:15)

So the biggest challenge I think we have to be charismatic is to show up as our warmest, most competent self, but it has to be that balance. Of course. And that's why it's amazing. But it's like talk about feeling like you're being pulled in two opposite directions. And I find it, I don't want to use the wrong word here. I find it easy to be warm. And I find it easy to be intense. I find it difficult to be warm and intense. Although you didn't use the word intense, use powerful, but I guess I don't like it. But I like it. I'm going to monocorrect myself. But yes, so warm and intense, I find extraordinarily difficult. Yes. Warm or intense, that's a lot easier. I'm going to make you feel better. Please. Actually, the research finds they can be chronological. Okay. And this is extremely helpful. This is like next level. Yes. You want them to come first. Warmth. Okay. Makes sense. When we first meet another human, the very first question we ask about them is, can I trust you? Right?

From across the room, we are looking can I trust you (04:14)

So like from across the room on a video call in an email, we are looking, can I trust you? Are you on my side? Are you a threat? Can I make sure that I'm not going to be at harm? Not just physical harm, but even like emotional harm. Are you on my side? The next question we answer, and it is the next question is, can I rely on you? So let's take an email, for example, because that's the easy, we can control all the elements. In a really good email, we do this sometimes naturally, but not always, the subject and the opener should be warm. Maybe the opening line is also warm and the content, the body of the email is competent, competent, competent, and the sign off is your choice. So for example, when we look at words, I love power of word choice. What research finds is when we read words like collaborate, we are more likely to be collaborative. When we read words like power, we are more likely to be powerful. Here's a specific study. It's a little complicated. Can I go eat? Yeah, yeah, please. The study like blew my mind. So here's what they did. They had participants come into the lab and they gave them like a quiz, like a math test they had to solve. One set of participants got a set of directions that was very simple. It said, please take this test, take your time, answer all the questions correctly. The second group got a set of, the same set of directions, but they sprinkled in a couple of high achievement words or achievement-oriented words. So achievement-oriented words are like, when, succeed, master, achieve. We love those words. They like give us the tingles. Okay. They just sprinkled them in. They wanted to know if just adding in a couple of achievement-oriented words would change participants behavior. Just those achievement-oriented words made them get more answers right.

Achievement oriented words make you think like a winner (05:45)

So it actually changed their performance. In other words, reading the word win makes you think more like a winner. It changes your physiology to be more like a winner. Second, this is where I think it gets more interesting. It doubled, doubled their desire to work on the task. So it made them work on the quiz longer and it made them enjoy working on the quiz. And lastly, it actually changed their physiology. So when we read- What were they measuring? So how many questions I got right? But when you say it changed their physiology, how do we know? Yes. They are measuring the amount of testosterone or dopamine or oxytocin on this setting. They took their blood levels? I believe it was either blood or saliva. Wow.

The words we use impact how we think and feel (06:28)

To see if their physiology would change. So when we read words like this, it actually changes how we think and how we feel. So I share this because I think we send emails or we have a LinkedIn profile and we throw at you. Hey everyone, today we have to get a lot of things done. It's going to be really busy week. Let's make sure that we overcome all those challenges. When you write words like busy, people are literally primed to be busier. When you write words like challenge, they're more likely to be challenged. So going back to warmth and competence is a challenge for everyone. If you open up your last five cent emails to important people, only the important ones and you count the number of warm words you're using and the number of competent words you're using, you will see exactly how you're coming across to others. The best thing you can do is open with warmth, hit them with competence and end with purpose. The number of times that I've written an email where I'm like, okay, let's do this. We're literally the first word is let's do this or text even worse. And then I'm about to hit send and I'm like, let me just quick go back to this and I'm like, oh my God, hi, good morning. To add something, although after reading the book, I realized I'm adding sort of the lamest, most boring, easy to tune out words, humanly possible. But are you usually adding warmth or competence? Oh, I don't think of it. I'm always trying to add warmth. I never think about the competence. I'm always just goal oriented. So the thought that triggers in my head is always there is something very specific in concrete I'm trying to accomplish. And I go right to it. And I find so every time I read your books or we get to sit down together where on camera or off camera, I become hyper aware in a good way because I think that too often I'm not thinking through like I'm in my head. I know what I'm trying to do, but I forget that you really do have to do the emotional management, the relationship management, especially when you have employees. It's you've got every time you touch somebody, it's like accumulating into their perception of who you are. And so if all I'm ever doing is goal oriented and I'm not taking the time to connect with them as a human, it gets weird. So anyway, I don't think about warmth or competence in the first pass because I'm just in the task. Then I go back and I do a warmth pass. Yes. Usually. Yes. But it is, it's very interesting how your default mode doesn't take any of that into consideration. Right. And I think that that's why we're so burnt out. What do you mean by that? I think the reason why we're all like, oh, I'm in this malaise like the days are so long and why we're so burnt out is because our way that we communicate has changed and we're trying to get things done. We've become a very task. Is this specific to COVID? No, I think this is what's already brewing. You said the way that we work has changed. I think the way that we work has changed. I think since video calls, emails and digital communication has been easy and then it got exacerbated by COVID because what's happening is our way of communication is changing. So we're putting more out, right? Our output for communication, I don't know, quadruple 10x. Think about the days where we didn't have email or text, just phone. We maybe had an in-person conversation with a colleague and in person conversation with our partner. We maybe picked up the phone and called someone. What is that? The maximum you could have 20 or 30 interactions in a day at the max. But that's only if you're isolated because so recently we started having people, if they wanted to, come back to the house, you have to test every day, bubble. And yesterday was the first day where like there were quite a few people here and we were all sitting around the table and I was like, wow, this is so the amount of communication I would have said is way higher, but it was all informal. So it was like it wasn't a meeting. It wasn't like, if I send a text, it has a really specific agenda.

Losing personal connection in a remote working world (10:24)

I'm trying to get to this. It was goofing around. It was being more playful. It was quick things about, hey, have you talked to this person, that kind of thing. And I was like, whoa, because I've said to people, yeah, I'm a little worried about working from home because I love it as a sort of, I will say I'm introverted, I'm an ambivert to your point and you can talk about you go into that in the book. But I'm also almost isolationist when I'm in introvert mode where it's like, I don't want to see or talk to anybody. I put over the ear headphones. I don't want people interrupting me or talking to me. And but I began to like, I'm a little worried on the creative side. That's where I've always focused on the creative side that we're losing energy. And it's hard to get people excited about something when it's like, you know, this asynchronous communication. And yesterday when people were in the room, I was like, oh my God, like just the human connection and the fun. Yes, and the flood of chemicals. Right. So I think that when we're in person, and there was what maybe five or 10 people, those are five or 10 connections that you're having all day or during a meeting. In a digital world or we're having online connection, we could have hundreds, right? Like every text we send is its own unique communication. And that burns us out because it's giving us all the same information without the chemicals. Right. So in person. So with you, the timing of this conversation is so on point for what's going on in my life. We have to manage that, right? Like I want you to be aware that, okay, if people come over, I'm getting way more chemicals. I'm getting the oxytocin of the handshake. I'm getting oxytocin from the eye contact. I'm getting dopamine because we're smiling and laughing together. And I'm getting the information I've been getting for the last couple months. In a text or an email or even a video call, it shrinks. We're getting way less of the good chemicals, way less of the dopamine and oxytocin, but the same amount of information. I think that is why we're so burnt out. So I think the more that we can take control of our cues.

Techniques to Command Confidence (12:25)

So I've always struggled with confidence. I've always tried to grasp that amazing spirit. The only way to do it is control for me. But I think that control the environment? I'm getting my cues. Okay. So I think that the only way that I feel confident is if I know, okay, I had this important email I have to send to a team member. And here's the information I get across. I do the same thing as you. I think most people do. I get the information out first, typically right, like here's what has to get done. And then I add in the warmth, typically in the first 10 words. And this is a really easy way to do it for yourself. This is only when it's important. It doesn't have to be every email. I think, okay, what is the person, what do I want this person to feel? If I were with them in person, what would I want to gift them? When I want to give them excitement, like get excited about them. Gift them. Gift. I think it's a gift. I think that we can prevent burnout by gifting the right chemicals. Right? Like it takes effort, like a gift. So if I'm like, okay, I want this person to be excited about this project. I'm going to use words that cue for excitement. And this is literally what the research shows that when we say things like, what are you excited about? Or I can't wait for this project or I'm looking forward to this? Those are excitement words. Or do I want a gift strategy? Do I want a gift efficiency? So I know that we are pushed for time and I want to gift streamline, collaborate, brainstorm, credible. The more I use those words, the more I am literally gifting that testosterone, that chemical. So I think that that's how we can next level. It's like next level. We can gift those chemicals to people in our in person interactions, but also in our emails and our videos. I find really interesting about that is that you're queuing not only to other people, but to yourself, even selecting the word gift, which is an interesting reframe for me as I think about that. Think about the different interactions and what I want to communicate. But even choosing that word feels very different than communicate or even give. Yeah. That's really powerful. Getting the framing device right so that whatever your sort of emotional goal is there and you just queued me that you want to talk. This is so interesting and you go into detail about this like the cues that people will do. Walk me through what just happened in the last nine seconds. Okay. So I really wanted to reframe you because you were wanting to get it done, which was good. And we were talking about like, how do we make it better? How do we get it done? And the reframe I wanted to give was this is like a gift. And how did you interrupt me though without saying a word? So first I was using the word gift, which I think already was like, like your brain was like, oh, that's something different. And then also I leaned into you. And I widen my eyebrows a little bit just to show like we're open, like we're getting into this. So like those were too high warmth cues. So when you think about nonverbal, I was trying to cue you for warmth, right? So I leaned a little bit more. And by the way, this changes our brain. So the study that I share in the book, which is just try anyone, just try leaning in a little bit. It will actually activate a different area of your brain. So when I lean in a little bit, you lean in a little bit more like your head actually in a bit, which activates your motivation. And then even just taking a breath and slightly opening your mouth, I was like, up, I know it is so interesting. I knew exactly that you had something to say. And I think we all take it for granted how you can use that in the book. You walk people through, Hey, if there's somebody that's talking too much and you need to interrupt them, but you don't want to like, please. Okay. Okay.

3 Techniques to Steal the Conversation (15:45)

So this is like a superpower. So if I have anyone who's introvert, anyone who's awkward, anyone who lacks a social assertiveness, I think social assertiveness is actually like a hidden trait that everyone should learn. Because to be socially assertive, it means you're putting your needs forward, but you're being polite about it. Right? So you have people pleasing, you're not betting over. Okay. So this is if you have an interruptor. So you have someone who constantly interrupts you. You have a couple of techniques. First is the open mouth, which I just did to you. So the open mouth, I call up the fish. So if you want to say something, you right and the bigger the open, the more they'll notice this works on video calls as works in person. So if someone's talking to you, you're like, Oh, she didn't say something and you'll bookmark it. They literally go, wait, she has to say something. So try opening the mouth. The second one is we are very cute that a hand raise or even a finger raise means one moment. Can I say something? And so if you have someone who's talking or who interrupted you, you can literally that a little bookmark or a little like it's like a pupil, right? You're raising your hand. And the next level is you actually reach out and touch them. And that's like my least favorite. But if you really have someone. Why least favorite? Because in this world, if we're six feet apart, right, it's really hard to cross that space boundary. And also some people aren't comfortable with touch. So I reserve that one. If you're only like, I really need to get their attention. Touch is like the nuclear weapon or maybe plutonium is the right word. It's the plutonium of communication. It can be used to create nuclear power or an atomic bomb. I don't think we talked about this in the last time they were together, but I went out on a business evening with a woman who touched so much that I was almost laughing to myself. And I know, I know. And it actually wasn't awkward. And what made it so interesting was how hyper aware of it I was and that it still worked. And I was like, how is this possible? Like it was working. Yeah, like forearm hand. Oh my God, laughing shoulder. I was like, what is happening right now? I felt like I was at a magic show. So this is a thing that magicians do. They acclimate you to being touched. So when they pick your pocket, you've just been so used to them touching. You don't even notice. Wait, can I ask you, where did she touch you?

Good arm touch vs bad arm touch. (17:54)

Arm shoulder. OK, so yeah, so this is for if you want to be a toucher, if you want to like use this plutonium, I like that word, keep in mind that the further up the arm you go, the more intimate the touch. So like if you want to start with a touch, like a hand touch is the least intimate, the most safe, right? So if someone's like talking like this, you could reach out and touch their hand. That's the most. I'm so like germphobic now. If somebody if you touch my arm, I'm fine. If you touch my hand, like, yo, those are fighting words. I wonder if that's changed it like now because our hands can. I would certainly be worried about it. OK, so for the beer and I'm back is usually OK, but the more the lower we go, the more intimate the touch becomes. I was curious if it was all here. It was. And it broke down like every barrier that I had. It was so interesting because I would, I am so weird about that. I would never reach out and touch somebody that I did not know extraordinarily well. No, no, no. And yeah, like it was really, it was really interesting. It so well. I was like, I know this is a thing. I can't bring myself to do it. Yeah. And yet as somebody's doing it to me and it was so frequent, she must have touched me. You're going to think I'm kidding. 42 times in the night. I mean, it was hilarious and effective. OK, so let's talk about touch. So the reason why touch works is because it produces oxytocin. We also can self produce oxytocin. So that's why like if you rub your hands whenever I have students who are really nervous, I say self touch. And the reason for this is because you can literally keep the clean boys and girls. I knew I had to forgive me. I was like, do I do it or do I let him do it? I was like softball. Thank you. Just give me go. I'm practicing being warm. You see. I love it. I love it. Self touch PG, right? So you can like rub your arms like this will literally produce oxytocin. Justin Bieber does a havening. Have you heard of havening? Because of you. Yes. OK, so havening is when we like try to stimulate our senses. And notice you'll often like rub his head. I'm not going to do it because my hair looks cute today. So I'm not going to do it today. But you can rub your head or rub your arms to literally trigger the oxytocin. I saw in you were talking about Justin Bieber and you did a self hug. I did. And you started doing it on camera and you actually got lost. I'm not going to do it right now because I'm worried it's going to lose me. So interesting. I'm going to do it. OK, I'm doing it too. Just do it. This feels better for some reason. And then take a deep breath. Yeah, that. It does feel better. You have the tangles. I don't know if I'm getting it from the touch or I really when I close my eyes and breathe deeply. I actually did get full body. Chills, yeah. But like what? Yeah. What? That is that that just happened like don't you feel like we're good? I don't know if it for me if it was the hug or the deep breath closing my eyes and deep breathing. That alters my neuro chemistry so fast. And so getting into self soothing for me in a way is I touch my face. So the little tickles that that gives me just feels awesome. But meditative breathing with my eyes closed. And I remember being so excited to gift Lisa the power of meditation and being like, oh my God, say comfortably close your eyes over the ear headphones, sound of nature and just breathe through your diaphragm. And the first breath I ever took like that was life changing because it changed my neuro chemistry so rapidly. Yes. And Lisa was like, this is bullshit. Like, I don't feel anything. And I was like, what? I was utterly shocked. Okay. So let's talk about self soothing for a second because this is a path.

How to self-soothe in a stressful situation. (21:23)

This is like a powerful kind of back pocket tool. If you've ever been in a meeting and you blanked out, you want to give yourself a distancing behavior or gift yourself a distancing behavior. The problem is is when you're in it, right? So you're in a presentation, you're on stage or on a video call, you're in a day and you blank out, you're in it. Usually you're like leaned in, you're lean forward, you want to do it. People will make the mistake of doing as they go further in. They go, have you ever seen people like on stage? I've been that person. Yes. Yes. They're like, they're literally like, where is it? And they're trying to get it. That is actually the worst thing you can do. You're actually overloading your prefrontal cortex by trying to get more. What I want you to actually do is back up. So I want you to give yourself physical and emotional distance. So if you're in that, just take a step back, either sit back or take a step back, try to angle your head back. And if you can't, even if it's subtle, just that changes the nature of your brain. When you take a step back, research has found that when you literally take a step back, you are able to get more perspective. So if you ever blank out, don't lean in, lean back, take a step back, take a breath back, grab your water, right? Right, I'm back with you. Here's what I was saying. That's how I want you to do it. It's super smooth and it actually helps that reset. That's what we're actually doing for ourselves. And if you're alone, of course, you can do this self touch. You're a super journal notch. It's a notch right here between your two collarbones. Between the two collarbones. I don't find myself touching there, but I am obsessed with where like, here. Yeah, I don't know why. Same. As I was reading in the book, I'm like, is this a blocking behavior? Am I doing something subconsciously? This is absolutely a self-soothing behavior. Like the reason why that feels so good. And so when we touch even anywhere in this area, including like our neck, it reminds us of like calm down, calm down. That's interesting. So like a very subtle thing to do. This stuff is so weird. It's so weird. It's so weird. We're talking about weird ones. We're talking about weird ones. I don't know why we picked all the weird ones. But like if I'm fiddle with anything, I will fiddle with my neck and I will touch whatever this part of the particle is. It feels so good. Because it feels so good. Yeah. Because you know that instinctively that's giving you a nice physiological response of staying calm anywhere in here is that. Now touching your face is something important. And I just want to talk about is research finds that when we self touch, especially our face and our stomach.

How To Downplay Deception (23:41)

And these, I don't know how we're talking about all the weird ones. People perceive that as closer to deception or nervousness. Nervousness I get, but why deception? I think it's because- And I obsessively palpate my adipose tissue around my stomach. So basically another way I pinch my fat. So I do it all the time to see how far under the skin is my muscle tone. You have to otherwise you can get out of control. Because I don't weigh myself. So that's my way of knowing. Like am I in check where I'm at? And so, but I never thought of it as a soothing behavior. It's a soothing behavior. Maybe another reason why I'm subconsciously I'm doing. But when I say I do it, I do it 60 times a day. Have you talked about this before? I did not notice that. Well, I'm never going to do it on camera. Yeah, if you hung around me long enough, you would see me do it a lot. Well, now I know why though. Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about it. So I think the reason why this internally our brain is like, ooh, deception. It's because liars want to hold things back. And liars are typically very nervous. Which in the book, by the way, you do some awesome breakdowns of like, here's this famous person, Lance Armstrong, Bill Clinton, A-Rod, and like, you give the moments and like, it's really interesting to watch back that stuff. And like, you watch back, you're like, oh, I didn't see that cute. I like cues hiding in plain sight. That's like my favorite. So liars, yes, like Lance Armstrong, for example, when he was on Larry King Live saying he wasn't doping, spoiler alert, he doped, right? He lip-pursed. He presses lips together because he wanted to like withhold the lie. So liars often want to withhold because they know lying gets them into trouble. They also are very nervous as they're trying to self-soothe. So they typically touch their face and there are three areas of the face that they touch. Eyes, nose, and mouth. Research has found this so- Just maximize getting sick. It's wonderful. True, and liars will get sick more often, right? I don't know about that. That's not research claims. That's not research fact. But why? So like, for example, they found there's like a Pinocchio's nose effect that when we lie, our nose, the tissue in our nose gets a little bit itchy. They found that when we are lying, we want to like block out the lie. So we eye block. So when liars are lying, they'll be like, yeah, you know, it's just been really hard. And they'll fuss at their eyes because they also have, they want to block it out with a high blink rate. So Britney Spears, some of her early interviews when she's asked really hard questions, all of a sudden she'll, I mean, I just really want to, I don't know. I just want to talk about that. But the reason that I'm talking about it and she has this like rapid blink rate. And that is because we were trying to block it out. And the last one is mouth touch. Liars like when I asked my daughter, did you take the cookie? She'll go, no. She covers her mouth.

Recognizing And Addressing Deception

Training Liars at Three and a Half (26:29)

Are you going to teach her about the strategies and if so, what age? So I've already started teaching the facial expressions. I've already started to use them or what you're looking at. To spot them. So like for example, she's three and a half. Wow. Talk about starting young. Oh, and it's so helpful to her because again, control, right? Like I didn't get confidence naturally, but the more that I've been in control of the cues I'm sending to others and also seeing the cues that are being sent to me, the more confident I feel. So we're on the playground and she'll say, I want to play with her or should I go ask them to play? I'll say, well, look at their face. Do they look happy or do they look sad? And if they look happy, I say, well, she looks happy. Why don't you go over and ask her? And then I say, look at her face. If she says she's happy and she wants to play with you, she wants to play with you or does she look sad? So we practice the facial expressions and she knows them. Like she knows and we were watching a Spanish movie and she doesn't speak Spanish one day hopefully. And she could say, oh, why? She said, why is he sad, mama? Because he didn't even the cartoon character was showing classic sadness. So sadness is an upside down you. So we pull our mouth down and then we pinch the corner of our eyebrows and we droop our lids like that. Even the cartoon character was showing that face and she could see he was sad. So I think as young as possible, I never would have thought to train a kid to do that. But I know one thing that you've talked about is when you, like your entire team has to watch your how to spot a liar.

How to spot a liar (27:53)

I don't remember if that's the exact word. But basically how to determine if somebody's lying cues, which I think is interesting. But I would think with kids it'd be good to hold some of that back and don't think I missed a cue that you want to say something. Listen, I always would have hard truth over ignorant bliss. If she's ready for it, I'd rather teach it to her. I also think like it allows you to choose if you're going to respond. You don't always have to respond to a cue. So for example, this is a cue. This study really changed the way I think about cues. I talk about it in the book a little bit, but it really had a major impact in my life, which is a study very simply where if you see a cue of social rejection, okay? So cues of social rejection. Where you're being rejected. Mm-hmm. So if you see or decode a cue of social rejection on someone else, which is why we're very aware of cues without realizing it. So cues of social rejection are eye rolls, scoffs, even a social rejection tone of voice. Like, yeah, I don't really like that. We know that's a social rejection tone of voice. Okay. When we see a cue of social rejection, our own field of vision widens. We literally see more. Our pupils change when we spot in less than a second a cue of social rejection. This is really helpful to know because it means if you see a negative cue, your body knows you have to look out for more. You have to see and why do we take any more? We have to see, is anyone else sending a cue of social rejection? Is everyone else okay? Do I have an escape route? What's my plan of action? So if your body is already doing this, if my daughter at three and a half already is doing that, why not give her a name for what that is? So then she can decide, I want to address that social cue of rejection or I'm good. I don't need their approval.

How to address cues (29:39)

Talk to me about addressing it. Okay. So let's, I really like addressing cues. I like addressing them in the room. So one cue, this is not a typical cue of social rejection, but I think it's an important one to know is a lower lid flex. If we're going to talk about the weird cues, let's just, let's just go right into the weird ones. So lower lid flex. So we're trying to see something from far away. So if, for example, blue steel, right, give me blue steel. Right. It's like the heart and the lower lid. If you're right now, try to see something across the room, try to see the detail on the wall. He'll, you'll harden your low. Let's see it. Okay. This is a universal response. When we want to see more, we widen our eyes and fear our surprise. We're trying to see detail or scrutinize something. We harden our lower lid. It lowers the amount of light that can come into our eye so we can see more detail. This is not a typical P of social rejection. However, if you're talking to someone and all of a sudden they lower lid flex you. I do it all the time. Right. It means that someone just went into deep listening mode. Correct. At least that's how I intended it. That is, it's literally, when you said intense way at the beginning of the interview, I thought, that explains Tom's lower lid flex because that's what you do in your interviews. You'll nod, which is high warmth. Oh my God. I nod too much though. No, you don't nod too much. We probably cut some of it out. Oh, okay. Sometimes I do feel like a bobble head which you mentioned. Don't be a bobble head. Okay. So, nodding is a warmth cue. You typically, I don't even know if you realize you do this, you will bounce out your nodding with a competence cue with it, which is a lid flex. So when you're- So we don't do it on purpose, but- Right. But that is your intensity. So like, right, you're deeply listening to me. What is she saying? What was that? What was that study? And I can see you are deeply listening and then you'll balance it out with a warmth cue. That is how very highly charismatic people, and I would put you in that bucket whether you would or not- Very generous. I would put you in that bucket of highly charismatic people is you are naturally balancing out that warmth and competence. We find lower lid flexes super attractive. And I don't mean like physically attractive. I mean, we want people who want to deeply listen to us. And so that's why when you look at really hot actors or models or blue steel, they're always- Smizing or lower lid flexing or flinty eyes because it shows intensity. And we like people who are intensely into us. So the reason I bring this up as a social rejection cue is because it can show scrutiny. It can show that someone is reevaluating or judging what you're going to say. And so when you're talking to a group of people or one person and all of a sudden they're lower lid flexing and you're on something positive, great. But if you're making a point or you're challenging something, addressing it would sound like, does that make sense? All good? Any questions right there? When I'm teaching- You wouldn't like call it out specifically like- Lower lid flex. Yeah, exactly. No. That's the kind of thing I would do for sure. I mean, listen, if you read this as a team and you want to do it, I have teams that do that, cool. But I like the- just like the soft like, are we good? Does that make sense? All good? Yeah. I like- it's a verbal.

How To Build And Maintain Trust Through Cluster Response. (32:46)

It also can be a nonverbal. So- What do you do though if you see the- and you talk in the book like you want a cluster? So let's say you're seeing a cluster of responses, any one thing in isolation. Yes. It could be meaningless. Yes. But you see that cluster, they're really giving you cues. You say, "We good?" Any questions there? And they're like, "Yeah, we're good." But you know there's something going on. Okay. So I usually will follow up with some kind of confirmation depending on how hard it is. So if all good, yeah, we're all good. I'm like, okay. Mental note that there was something that was going on there. So I will typically- this is like advanced level. But if something is really like, I know I saw that cluster. I know I saw a couple of red flags in a row that I don't like and this matters. I will typically change the mode of communication. So if we were in person, I will ask an email just confirming. You're all good on point, point, point. If we were in email and I noticed some suspicious verbal things, I will switch to in person. If we're on video, I'll try to switch to phone. Because I find that if you give someone a minute and you try a different mode of communication, you usually get a little bit more information. So when it really matters to me, I will ask in a different way in a different mode. It's interesting. What do you think about my technique, which is I won't say that I do it every time because I do try to be deaf, I try to read the room and what my relationship is with the person. But I am very likely to say something like, "We all good? Yeah, yeah, we're fine." You made a facial expression, "Help me understand because it definitely read like you're upset or whatever and I just want to make sure that whatever." Love it. So that works. You can also say, "You're saying all good but you don't look like it's all good." And that's what you can also do with your partner. Like if they're like, "I'm fine," you know, it doesn't sound fine. I want it to be fine. It doesn't sound fine. So yes, I think that you can also verbally vary and that's not an aggressive way of doing it. Are you sure you're good? You don't look good. And then they can explain, "Oh yeah, I'm just nervous about something else or you know what you're right. I do have some hesitations or, "No, no, I really am good." I like that if you're brave enough to do it. That's the socialest sort of way to do it. I like it.

The Brown Method: Starving Is Attacking! (34:53)

If you're a partner, do you have a code word? So like Lisa and I, if I can see on her face, there's something wrong. And I use this very sparingly because I actually want Lisa to be able to take an exit ramp if she doesn't want to talk about it or whatever. But if I really need to know, I'll be like, "You promise you're okay?" Now in our marriage, if somebody says, "Do you promise that whatever is about to come out of your mouth better be the truth?" No matter how brutal it is. Do you have anything like that? So we have a physical one that we do. Where I... Tell me more. So like if I think he's not good or not telling me something, I'll take his face in my hand like this and I'll be like, "Are you sure babe?" So like it's like a deep, it's like a touch, it's like a very intimate touch. And I'll like, "Are you sure?" And so for me, he'll often like touch my shoulder, touch my arm or my lower back. Are you sure? That like anchor touch. Did you guys discuss that? Like would he be surprised hearing you say this now? I think he would be a little bit... No, no, I think he would be like, "Oh yeah, we do do that, but we haven't discussed it." Interesting. But like when it's like it's like it's like close the outside world around, are we good? That or like are you... Are you sure? That's like a physical touch thing. He's also a physical touch, love language. Okay. So I think that that's where it came from as we discussed that he was physical touch. That's interesting. Going back to warmth and high fives and stuff, you talk about in the book even like on a Zoom call saying like, "Hey, I'm sending you a high five," and that even things like that can cue people into feeling something. Yes. So this was a hypothesis I had right at the beginning of the pandemic. We're all going on video and I missed the social tradition of a high fiver, a handshake and I wondered, "Do we need to replace it? Do we even need to?" And Kenney. And so I partnered with Dr. Paul Zach, who runs Mergent Neuroscience. He's like the oxytocin guy. Whenever we talk about oxytocin, we're actually piggybacking on his original research. He's absolutely brilliant. He wrote the moral molecule. Have you ever taken exogenous oxytocin? In the nose. Yeah. Never, but I really want to. Have you done it? I have, but mixed with ketamine. Oh, I've never... And I didn't like the ketamine. I'd like to try just the nasal spray. Just oxytocin. Yeah. I got so hyped about it. I was like, "Hey, we're going to do it together. It's going to be amazing." She's like, "No, I don't want anything artificial." I'm like, "Look, look at me." I mean, it's very close to our chemicals. His lab is really close. We could all go do it. Dude, I am. I would do a nasal spray of oxytocin any day. This is, by the way, Dr. Zach is the guy who did the vampire wedding. The vampire wedding. The vampire wedding. Well... They got married as vampires. No, he talks... No, he calls it the vampire wedding. He's the one who... He went to a wedding. I don't know how. Dr. Zach is super charismatic. And so I... He convinced anyone of anything. He's probably giving us all oxytocin.

Surviving Cults, Insights From A Hostage Negotiator & How Not To Be Manipulated (37:40)

That's a good strategy. So here's what he did. He convinced a wedding to go to the wedding and take everyone's blood at the wedding. Whoa. I know. So he took the bride's blood, the groom's blood, everyone in the wedding. He took their blood. And what he found was, is that you could predict how close people were to the bride based on how much oxytocin was in their blood. Whoa. Right. So it's super cool. So the more people felt bonded to the bride, the closer they were, the more oxytocin they had in their blood. I believe there was one exception. And forgive me if this one, I think it was, the mother-in-law was even higher than the groom. I think it was something funny like that. The mother-in-law was so oxytocin-filled for her daughter. Wow. Sorry not the mother-in-law. The mother of the bride was even higher than the groom because she was like so happy with her daughter. Wow. I have to check that one. That is really interesting. Yes. So oxytocin is real and it's very nuanced. So I feel like a nose shot of oxytocin would make us do all kinds of interesting, like open our brain up in a connection kind of a way. It's a fascinating molecule that has huge implications in trust. Yes. Which is the, when I first started reading about it, I was like, "Ooh, this is really interesting. Like if you have a group and you need to develop more trust, it could be a really interesting way." It could also though potentially get you into trouble if it's creating trust with somebody that you shouldn't trust. Oh, that is how Kahn then work. I will tell you my biggest concern with this book is it will get in the wrong hands. Like a question that I get that is the question which is like what's the difference between this and manipulation? And I think there is a terrifying line for me and it was something that caused me some writers block, I'll be honest while I was writing, where I'm so terrified that these cues will be used for evil, not good. And they can be. And they are. I mean that's how Kahn men work. And that is one of the reasons what I can convince myself of is I would rather acquit people to know these cues. You said that when one was touching you and you knew she was touching you and it was working, I would rather you be aware of the cues that are being sent to you to know I want this or I don't because they are that powerful that if someone has bad intentions, they can still produce trust. And that makes me nervous. Yeah, I don't think you will ever be able to control stuff like this, but it would be a bit like, I'm not going to teach mixed martial arts because the person might use it to beat somebody up. That's true. So it's like I'd rather have the people that can use it to either like you have done overcome awkwardness and use it. I mean even the book reads very much like a manual for somebody who wants to improve their life, take it to the next level. I think the subheadnour on the back of the book it says like if you're tired of being overlooked, underestimated or interrupted. Yeah, and underestimated. That was the one that really hit me was giving people the tools. In fact, we've already talked about this, but being able to give people subtle cues that you want to interject and a lot of people I think end up getting steamrolled and they get angry at the other person instead of going, I'm going to take control here to your point and be able to signal people and you give this progression of well, you can start subtle, you can do the fish, whatever. But then we get to the point where it's like yo, stop. But being able to give people the tools so that they can be better equipped to do this stuff. And then I definitely like in relationships, it is so easy to be inside your own head, to have a paranoia about like I want to make sure that I'm following this or that I'm coming across well or whatever that you actually stop reading the cues and then you can get blindsided. I think about this a lot as an employer. It's like you're constantly trying to make sure that everybody's okay and that you actually know what's going on inside people's lives. And when somebody will end up hitting a breaking point that you didn't see coming, it's like, ah, did I ignore something? And so yeah, reading nonverbal cues I think is about as close to a superpower as you're going to get. And also vocal cues. We talked about nonverbal, we talked a little about verbal, but I also think that we hear tension. I think that that's something that we is an underestimated cue that we don't talk about enough. But our voice gives away a lot of our personality and our mental state. So the thing that like trust your gut on what you're hearing. So talk about the gut. Yes. Okay. So I think that we know this instinctively, but if we're not listening for it, we ignore it. And that is, I've so been in that place you just mentioned where you're like, did I miss something like, is someone burnt out and I didn't even see these cues coming? And so if you're listening to your gut and your intuition more and you know what you're hearing, I think you're like, ah, I just heard that.

Using Cues And Empathy For Analysis

The Vital Spidey Senses for Analyzing Cues (42:22)

How does the gut work in your mind? So I think that we have this amazing muscle, right? This amazing, whatever you want to call the brain, this amazing piece of anatomy that is constantly reading all these thousands of cues that are being sent to us. And it gives us a spidey sense. It gives us an intuitive hit of like, something is off. And we tend to think as we go into productivity mode. Do we meet the deadline? Do we get it done? Was she late? Was she on time? She's been slow to respond to that email. Right? Like when I get that spidey sense, I typically go, I used to go to task. Right? Like is there something off in performance or behavior and task? I actually want you to go the other way. I want you to go to communication. I want you to be like, does she sound okay? And let's talk about what does it mean to sound okay? So what research has found is that we hold a lot of tension in our vocal cords, right? So we don't take up a lot of space. Like for example, if I were to do this interview with my shoulders rolled in and my chin down, you already hear a kind of tightness in my voice. And so when someone's on a video call or on a phone call and they're like, yeah, so I'm just going to give over my weekly updates and you can hear that tension because it sounds different than when there's space. When you're listening for tension, I think that it can give away that fatigue that's coming, that's smallness that someone is literally playing small.

How to Tune in to Vocal Cues (43:33)

So you're listening for one is smallness. So as I take up less space, I begin to create less volume. You're also listening for vocal fry. So vocal fry, I don't think we don't talk about enough. Have you talked about a dress vocal fry on the show? No, only I never had a name for it until I read this book and I realized that I actually have somebody here at Impact Theory that has vocal fry. And I was like, every time I hear it, I'm like, it seems like she's anxious. And when you describe it, I was like, ah-ha. Okay, so vocal fry is when it sounds gross, but when our vocal cords rattle together because there isn't enough air that is coming through them. So right now I'm working really hard to give enough air enough, I'm actually not working that hard. We're having a conversation. But if I were nervous, if you were to ask me a very hard question or if I was feeling burnt out, tired, dismissed, I would lose my volume and then I would go into vocal fry. Yeah, okay. So vocal fry is when we're talking like this and we're sort of not enough breath is coming through and so you can hear that rattle in the back of my throat. Now if I were to give my entire interview like this, it would drive you absolutely crazy. Right? That's good. Yeah. So vocal fry is very simple. It's when we don't have enough breath to give our voice. So one, and this is double, you have to hear, when are you hearing it? Is it because someone literally hasn't been talking all day and they seem to get themselves revved up? Is it because they're actually anxious or nervous? Like all of a sudden they went from, hey everyone, good to see you. Oh, this is going to be great. So my announcement is like really basic. And then all of a sudden they go into it and then how do you want to address it? So do you want to address the emotion or the cue? This is the challenge we have as cue readers. Are you going to address the emotion or the cue? So do you want to say afterwards, are we all good on that? And I just want to make sure that you're feeling good or follow up in an email. Hey, I just want to double check on you, Lindsey. Make sure you're feeling good about that. So that's addressing what you think might be happening. Or do you want to address the cue? If you want to get rid of vocal fry, all you have to do is ask someone to speak up. That's fascinating. That's it. If you ask someone to speak up, they have to use my breath. They go, oh yeah. Sure. And they force more air out of their breath and they immediately get out of vocal fry. I've been in presentations before where someone is giving away their power with vocal fry. They have amazing content, but they're literally giving the entire presentation like this. And so it's really hard to listen to. And it sounds like they just don't believe in what they're saying. And so I will say to them, hey, in the back, we can't quite hear you. Can you hear in the back? And they'll immediately speak up and get out of it. So that's also a gift. You can give someone. There's someone who's giving away their power and they're doing it accidentally. Gift them the breath. Why is it giving away your power? I think that people who doubt their ideas and they doubt themselves, that leaks in their cues, right? So they might have the best presentation or they would be the best.

People who are stoic are always nervous. (46:27)

I want to put my finger on that for a second because that feels like a core thing in the book is to understand that you're leaking, whether you're leaking warmth or whether you're leaking competence or whether you're leaking insecurity, anxiety, you are leaking these things. There is no mute button. I think professionals who are nervous, they hope they could just go mute or stoic. They're like, I don't know what I want to send. So I'm going to send nothing. There is no mute button. In fact, going mute in itself is a cue and it is a danger zone cue, right? Talk about poker because that was such a great example. Yeah. Man, I love looking at poker studies. So you already know the answer to this, but we can play with everyone at home. Okay. So let's say that I played a little game with you and I said that you could watch poker play players playing poker. You have three choices of the kind of videos you could watch. A, the full body, head, hands, feet, B, just the head. So as they're playing, all you see is the facial expressions and head movement or C, just the hands. So just how they're playing and dealing the cards, but would you choose A, B, or C? Or are you going to answer this? Yeah, but I know what my real answer is and I would have said the face 100%. Okay. So the first answer actually people usually give is the full body because they're like, more information is better. The second most popular answer is the face. I want to see their facial expressions and their tells and their head movement. The actual answer, the people who were the most accurate at predicting how good someone's hand was was just looking at the hands. And that is because we try to control our leaks. So someone has a bad hand. They're trying to control their face and go really stoic. They're trying to not move a lot. And we actually notice that. We notice if they're going stoic or going mute, we notice if they have all of a sudden kind of jerky weird movement. But our hands are really hard to control. So people with really good hands have fluidity of movement. They have really sure playing. Their hands are really smooth. And what's amazing is we know this instinctively. When we just look at someone's hands and we take away the other cues, we can spot the good hand by looking at the smoothness of a player's hand. So interesting. In the book, I sometimes get lost between what's in the book and what I heard in an interview, but I think it's in the book that there was a woman who one year after deciding she was going to play poker ends up winning this incredible tournament. And wasn't she looking at hands? That's what she learned. So this is a great book. And what she did is she taught herself to play poker in one year. She entered these major tournaments. And the way she was able to climb from table to table to be at the winner's table was she stopped looking at the cues on the face and on the feet. And she really, really focused on the hands because that's when she could see if someone actually had a good hand or not that jerky motion means you're leaking nervousness because think about it. If you're nervous or anxious, A, you can't control as much and B, you're expending energy in all kinds of weird spaces. Very highly charismatic people leaders don't waste energy. All their movements are purposeful and smooth. That's one of the reasons I said, don't touch your face. Don't touch your stomach. It's because that's a wasted energetic movement. We like people who are only saying, I'm going to make a movement with this gesture or this gesture. And so yes, she was able to climb at the top of the tables simply by looking at fluidity of hands. She also did a lot of training and mentoring, but that's how she was able to go so quickly. It's because she was looking for leaks. Yeah, I didn't see that one coming. I thought that zooming in on the face would be better. For the same reason that zooming in on the hands works is that you're not getting all this extraneous information. And the reason that I was asking about gut instinct is your subconscious is able to take in so much more data than you can process consciously. And I also heard you talk about the smell test that they did where they had people jumping out of an airplane versus running or whatever. Yes, yes. Exactly as you said it exactly right is our subconscious is this amazing cue reading machine. And so it is constantly trying to tell your gut, listen, that wasn't good. We should be nervous or this person is great. It's constantly trying to speak to us. We just have to listen to it. So yes, in this study, what they did is they had two groups of people wear sweat pads and run on the treadmill. And the second group, they had them wear sweat pads and jump out of airplanes. Obviously, the one on the treadmill were very sweaty, but they weren't afraid. The people jumping out of the airplane had a lot of adrenaline, a lot of cortisol and they had people smell those sweat pads kind of gross. And people who didn't know what they were smelling, people who smelled the sky diving sweat pads began to feel anxious. They actually caught the fear. What's incredible about this is it means that there's these loops happening all over our life that we don't realize that when we walk into a room and we're like, "Why are I in a funk? Why am I in a bad mood? Why am I angry?" A lot of the time it's because you caught some kind of cue that your intuition was going, "You got to be on protection mode or you got to be defensive or the opposite." You'll walk into a room and be with someone and be like, "Yeah, I love this feeling."

Why cues, intuition, empathy are underserved. (51:24)

And this is why I think that before you walk into a room, before you walk on a date, before you walk into a networking event, if you can get yourself right, if you can show up as your most confident, competent self, if you know that you have all these cues in your back pocket, you know your stuff, you really have good intentions to be warm and trustworthy, that makes you super contagious in a good way. All right, so let's bring this all together for people. There's part of the book that I really liked is choosing better words, really being engaging with people. And I actually thought about opening the interview with this because I do this in real life with a different question, but cutting past the BS and in an interview you threw off, the person didn't follow up on it and I was sad. You were giving examples of things you could open with at like a party or something and you said, "What's your deepest fear?" And I was like, "Word, so Vanessa Van Edwards, what's your deepest fear?" And help us understand why it's so meaningful to find, like that to me, maybe one of the most fascinating parts about cues is bringing this all together to really like not incrementally improve your ability to connect, but like to use that to go to a whole new place. So I both want to understand actually what your biggest fear is and then why something like that is so it brings us together in a far more interesting way.

What does your deepest fear say about you? (52:47)

I think I really want to answer, because I think the answer is this has changed over the years. Right now I think my deepest fear is actually that underestimated word on the back of the book. I think both. I have this like opportunity FOMO, so I constantly have this fear that I'm like missing opportunities. I think that's one of the reasons I wrote this book and one of the reasons I'm obsessed with cues is because I am terrified that I am missing things. I feel like I missed the memo on social interactions, right? Like that's my entire career is trying to write up that memo again and that really hurt me. It really slowed me down for so many years. It destroyed my confidence. It made me have bad relationships. It made me ignore cues. I think for a long time I had really toxic people in my life and I didn't spot the cues. I didn't. I saw my gut spot at the cues and I didn't listen. And so I think I don't want to have that anymore. I am terrified of having toxic people who I miss. I miss those cues. And on the positive side, I'm terrified of seeing good people and good opportunities and missing them. I have regrets about people who I let go who I'm like, what was I thinking? I miss that. And so I think I'm terrified of underestimating others.

The 3 levels of intimacy (54:19)

I'm terrified of missing things that I shouldn't have missed or not listening to my gut. And why is something like that to me was really, really interesting. And if there were no cameras on and I didn't have to think about the thumbnail headline for the YouTube video, I would have started the interview there. Yeah. Why? Why is that so fascinating? It actually isn't in the book, but I think about a lot. So I read this research. I believe it was by Dan McAdams. And he talks about three levels of intimacy. Have you ever heard this concept? It is why I suggested that question. What's your deepest fear? What he found is we get stuck in these levels. And so he found there are three levels of intimacy between people. This is even in cues. It's just what I use. The first level is called general traits. He calls it general traits. It's like why we get stuck in like, so what do you do? Where are you from? It's occupation age gender. We get stuck there. We can't get out of it. That's why you have people who are like gender. Yeah. Didn't see that coming. Yeah. That's why I think that if people are, that's why a lot of now we're saying like he/she or like we're saying our pronouns actually helps us get past level one in a weird way. It's like actually answering that. It's called I call it the hierarchy of facts. Our brain actually has to learn the basics before it can go deep. So those are some of the basics. The second level is what he calls personal concerns. Personal concerns, this is the level I like to live at. This is like motivations, values. It's like what gets you up in the morning? What drives you? What excites you? It's why the questions I often suggest are working on anything exciting recently or what's your hobby these days? It's why I asked you about the marketplace. Like it's values, it's motivations, what drives you? The last level, the level that we don't even get to with some people who are closest in our life is called self-narrative. Self-narrative is the story that you tell yourself about yourself. And so that, if you know someone's story about themselves, the story they're telling themselves about themselves, that's what helps you predict behavior, understand them deeply. So I think that when you ask someone what's your deepest fear and they're willing to try to answer it for you, they are giving you a clue into level one, two and three. So I don't even know in the hours that we've spent together on camera and off camera if I've ever shared anything like that with you that I've allowed toxic people into my life and that almost destroyed me and that held me back for a really long time and I didn't stand up for myself. I don't know if that's ever come out but that question unlocked it and that is part of my self-narrative and that's the story I tell myself when I'm driving to this interview, when I leave today, when I'm thinking about an Instagram story, it's like it all goes back to that story. So like that's my goal and a lot of my interactions is okay, yeah, let's get, let's blow through level one. I don't care what you do. Let's go to level two at least. What do you value what motivates you and if I can, like what drives you? What's the story you tell yourself? That I think is a really important lesson and the one that I ask people which I think falls into number two is, well maybe number three is what's your deepest passion? Try to keep it positive.

Mastering Level 3 Questions

The Secret Level 3 Question (57:34)

I would be reticent to ask somebody that I didn't know or didn't have on a show like this and what their deepest fear is. One if they don't trust me, they're going to lie anyway but getting to something positive, skipping past all the BS. I have another one I can give you. This one like it's a secret level three question and by the way I feel I'm like a scared to say it because I'm like oh my friends are going to be like so that's why you've been asking that question. Here's my secret level three question. It's a sneaker. So who's your role model? Who's your hero? The reason why this one's such a good one is because it tells you what they think their own hero is. You talk a lot about heroes. Lisa talks a lot about heroes. The reason why that's interesting is I ask one of my very long friends, so like who's your hero who's your role model or even what TV or movie character do you think your most similar to? And in my head she's a great mom, she's a homemaker, she's so kind. I thought she was going to pick an amazing like mom like Laurel I Gilmore or something. She goes oh, Katniss Everdeen. I was like Katniss Everdeen, do you feel like you're in the Hunger Games? And she's like oh yeah I'm surviving every day. Whoa. And I was like I don't know you. And this is someone who I've been friends with for years and we had this whole discussion about how she feels like she's fighting for time and fighting for love and fighting for her day and she's like head above water and I had no idea. So I would ask someone in your life. You asked a killer follow up though. That's the key because if somebody said that to me I'd be like yo you're a heroine, this is dope. You can fight like that's incredible. But you saw through to what she was really saying. I knew what she was saying. I was like but I could feel it from her and so a little challenge if you're willing to like sit down with the people who matter to you and be like what's your role model? Who's your hero? What character is most like you? And not who you aspire to be. And I will correct people on this. Like when I ask them this question and they're like oh I'm like not who you aspire to be? Who you are? Like who has your same values and traits? It's really interesting what they say because you'll learn what they value too. Yeah that's really interesting. You definitely have to hit them with that follow up to make sure though that you're reading that character in the same way. Exactly. Fascinating.

Contact Information

Where to Find Vanessa (59:50)

Where can people follow along? Because you're putting out content like it isn't just the books. You've got a ton of amazing content. There's a bunch of content I couldn't fit in the book because it was too visual. Right like I had to have videos and so yeah I'm putting a bunch of free Q's videos, breakdowns, Britney Spears, The Rock. I mean who doesn't want to watch 15 hours of The Rock videos. So I do a lot of breakdowns on my YouTube channel and ScienceOfPeople.com and this is wherever books are sold. Amazing. Oh my goodness thank you so much. Thank you for your support. Of course. Thank you for being such a good friend. Thank you for giving me Lisa. Oh my god. Yes. I'm obsessed with her. You're very welcome. I'm glad that you guys have gotten close. It's amazing. Love that. And thank you everyone for watching too. Yeah no kidding. Yes thank you guys all for watching and trust me when I say if you figure out what you're leaking get control of that so that you can communicate more effectively that the idea is definitely not to manipulate people but to understand how you're coming across so when I'm palpating my love handles I will have a better understanding of what's really going on and speaking a better understanding what's really going on. If you haven't already be sure to subscribe and until next time my friends be legendary. Take care. Peace. Bye.