You've Been LIED TO About Calories & Losing Weight! (TRUTH BEHIND DIET & LONGEVITY) | Dave Asprey | Transcription

Transcription for the video titled "You've Been LIED TO About Calories & Losing Weight! (TRUTH BEHIND DIET & LONGEVITY) | Dave Asprey".


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Intro (00:00)

Dave Asprey, welcome back to the show. Tom, I love being here in LA and just checking out your awesome set. Thank you, man. So you've got the new book, Smarter Not Harder. You talk in the book about how when you were younger, you did things not in the most intelligent way. I'm curious with all of the hacks and stuff that you've put together that you document in the book, for somebody that's at the beginning of their journey and they want to do that basic, like, I just want to lose weight as a proxy for other things. Well, let's start with that. What's the most potent hack that you have for somebody that wants to really trim down? If you just want to lose weight, the most important thing you can do is you can do intermittent fasting. That was our last interview. The problem is that sometimes it doesn't work. So most people will go out and do what I did when I was in my early 20s. Wait, 300 pounds. I'm going to lose weight and it's the most important thing in my life. And I was an early adopter of being obese, but right now it's more than half of people. My whole family was early adopters. It's crazy. I remember as a kid thinking, "My family is different." Right. Because they were all obese and have that word back then. You can guess the word that was floating around. Oh, yeah. But I remember thinking, "Wow, this is weird. Why is my family so heavy and other people's isn't?"

Understanding Weight Loss And Nutrition

1 Cause of Not Losing Weight (01:24)

It was a strange thing. Obviously, that becomes a huge part of what pushes me at Quest. But being an early adopter of that, because one of the things I found interesting, and I heard you say this before, but in the book you detail it out, I think a couple of times where you're like, "I was a size 46 waist. I was going ham. I was working out. I got really strong, but I was still a size 46 waist." Yeah. Now, does this have to do with the energy metabolism? There are several things that cause that to happen, and one of them is overtraining. You can't lose weight when you're overtrained. Because you can't outrun a bad diet or because you're bracing. It cortisol goes through the roof.

Calories In, Calories Out (02:05)

And that traps the fat? It absolutely does. There are tons of people, especially women today, who do the same thing. I did. They said, "I'm just going to work out every day and I'm going to eat less. I know I'm going to lose weight because calories in calories out." And then they don't. It just doesn't work. And then they get frustrated. So then they work out even harder and they do what I did. I'll take the chicken off the chicken. Are they not in a caloric deficit? So this is one of the most fascinating arguments around calorie in, calorie out. So are you saying, so there is for sure, for sure, a complexity that we'll get to in a second, but I want to attack this head on. So do you have to be in a caloric deficit in order to lose weight? No. And if you are in a caloric deficit, is it possible to maintain your body fat percentage and/or increase your body fat percentage? If you're in a caloric deficit, you probably won't increase it. However, the studies show that when you're in a caloric deficit for long periods of time, you go crazy. And these are studies that were conducted in caves with people where there was really no level of control. The guy who wrote about them with the most detail was Gary Tobs in his classic Good Calors, Bad Calories. So the idea that you're going to just use willpower to stay in a caloric deficit forever, it actually is cruel. And it doesn't work. If it did, we would all easily lose weight. When you say it doesn't work, though, what do you mean? It doesn't break because people just get fed up and they're going to go eat. Yeah. People will do that. In fact, the number of people who are breatharians who wake up with empty candy bar wrappers next to them, it wasn't me, it happens. And what happens is the meat operating system takes over and says, you're going to eat. And if you want me to pretend you didn't eat, that's no problem. There's a separate intelligence that runs your meat. It's what I call the meat operating system in the book. It does stuff before you can think about it. And if you ever caught yourself reaching for a cookie that you said you want to eat, who the hell reached for the cookie? It wasn't you, dude. That's one of the most real things that happened to me. So I would be a stress eater if I hadn't done a lot of work.

Junk Food Vlog (04:07)

So we were just talking before we started rolling. There was a period this last year was working 120 hours a week. No one should do it. It's terrible. I don't want anybody to be impressed. It was out of poor decision making that I ended up working that much. But it was the first time in my life where I suddenly, I actually understood how people end up eating out of stress because I would find myself walking to the cupboard, opening it up to get something because I only eat what's on my meal plan. Right. And I was like, what is happening? So I would have gotten, set my computer down, gotten up, walked across the road. I reached for the cabinet all before my mind kicked in. And I was like, whoa, some part of me knew the way you're feeling will be alleviated by eating this thing. It's a very discomforting feeling of how much I could do this sort of in zombie mode. It's worse than that. We are all in zombie mode all the time because when I stand my fingers right now, you picked it up right away, right? Except if we were to put electrodes on your head and measure your brain waves, it takes for the average person about a third of a second before the brain gets the first electrical signal that something happened. So what was happening in the third of a second between when it actually happened and when your brain got a signal and then you had to think about the signal to figure out what it was. So we're all running with the third to a half a second lag time on reality, but we can't see it. And there is a system in our body that is very much faster than our brain. And it does all sorts of things to you and then you take credit for it. And a lot of what is in Smarter Not Harder is how do we get a signal into that automated system? It's actually a separate intelligence that keeps your meat alive. If you removed all of your human stuff, who's making you breathe? Who's making you pull away from heat and things like that? There are reflexes in there. Would it be true to say this is the difference between the conscious and unconscious mind or are you trying to delineate something else? It's something else. The unconscious mind is a part of that system, but there's a distributed system of decision making throughout the body. Each mitochondria and probably some of the other sub-solar parts is an environmental sensor in and of itself. It's a tiny little computer that picks up a signal from the world around it and then it decides what to do. And it does that and it talks to its other little friends. They have a little system called quorum sensing, which is like voting. It's similar to the way crypto algorithms work. So your little things are deciding. What's going on in the tip of my finger right now? Your brain is never going to get that signal yet this is a part of your meat. And if they decide that there's something hot there, they're going to send a little alarm signal up. And eventually all these different systems that are made of tiny little compute nodes come up with a consensus and eventually it makes its way through your nervous system up to your brain and then your brain figures out what to do with the signal. And it's that lag time where, well, the hand moved away. So we've all accidentally rest our hand on a hot surface and jerk it away. Good thing I pulled my hand away before I got burned. You didn't. Your automated system pulled the hand away and you took credit for it. So if we can acknowledge that there is absolutely a system that does things before our brain can do it and the measure in the brain here is called P300D. And it's just how quickly can your brain sense reality around you? How fast is your nervous system? Seeing people say an 18 year old is usually around 250 milliseconds and people in their 30s, 40s, 50s gets a little slower with age. You get to about 350 milliseconds.

Why Context Matters: The Body Is a Chemical Processing Plant (07:33)

I'm still at 250 milliseconds because of fact my brain I do all the weird stuff that I do. So my nervous system and brain's ability to sense reality is about 0.1 seconds faster than average for my age. But even so, I have a meat operating system. It does things. And a lot of our anxiety that we think is emotional, it's actually physical anxiety. Everything's wrong in the system. The system maybe doesn't even know what it is because it's some weird toxin that didn't exist in nature or we're eating the wrong stuff or we're in an endless caloric deficit. Yeah. So I want to, anxiety is interesting. We'll definitely come back to that to wrap the calories and calories out. So this is like one of the most hotly contested things. Sort of like it seems like it's getting more and more narrow. So what I want to understand from you because as far as I can tell the people that get really agitated when you say that it isn't just a simple math equation, I think what they're saying is effectively that if you put a bit of chicken breast in a bomb calremeter that it is going to give off however many kilojoules of energy when burned. I mean, like that, I don't have a beef with that. I don't know if you do. That's just plain physics. Unfortunately, it's not how biology works, but it's physics. We'll get into the statement of how biology works in a second. So first, I want to see if I can neutralize some of the people on this. So what I would say is, okay, cool, I'm with you on that. The body however though is a chemical processing plant that's influencing what you're calling the meat operating system, which can do things like get people to do things subconsciously and maybe that one is even less interesting or controversial than the idea of at a cellular level, they're coming up with a quorum, they're deciding what to do and they're turning things on and off. We had talked about, I think it was in our last time together where mitochondria will actually become less efficient depending on the type of calorie that you consume. And so getting into the complexities of that. So I'll be interested to read the comments and see if we just alleviated some of the, yes, if you put it in a bomb calremeter, it's going to kick off that much when you burn it, cool. Yes, if you are chronically in a caloric deficit, you are going to lose fat. But once you get into the day-to-day realities of living a life, the one last thing I will plant while you're here to steer me if I go wrong is there are certain drugs that you can take. No, even before we get to drugs, if you're a type one diabetic, you can eat, need, need, and starve to death because you can't store fat. That's the one that I never, I haven't seen the argumentation. I'm sure it's out there and people will forgive me for my current ignorance. So all right, with all of that laid down, so the people hopefully argue with you if they see differently, that it's a slightly deeper part of the argument. So did any of that strike you as untrue? None of it's strike me as untrue. The bomb calorimeter thing is interesting because if you put a piece of chicken in a chamber and you heat the chamber with a known amount of heat until it incinerates and then you measure how much additional heat you got, that's great. Put the chicken in there with some non-caloric flame retardant and it's going to require a lot more heat to get the heat out of the chicken, but they never talk about that. What does that mean? You're saying that there's the equivalent of that in the human body? If you put a flame retardant on the chicken, it's hard to burn, but they don't question how much energy it takes to burn the chicken. They only question how much energy they got from burning the chicken. So isn't it reasonable that there are things that inhibit metabolism, even if you eat X number of calories? And there's three things that absolutely destroy all of these calorie trolls. And the calorie trolls are generally people who've never been fat or people who have fetishized starvation and they're unhappy people. They're usually people who spend an enormous amount of time in the gym and genuinely believe that you can cancel out a Snickers bar with a Diet Coke. They are wrong and when they perpetuate that stuff, they're actually causing a lot of harm to normal people who are trying to lose weight and follow bad advice. I went to the gym for 702 hours and went on a low-fat, low-calorie diet when I didn't lose 100 pounds. And the entire time I thought I was eating too much, I wasn't working out in that 90 minutes a day of half-weights and half-cardia.

Nutrition Partitioning (11:54)

It's not reasonable. It may work for some people. Here's three arguments why calories and calories out don't work. Number one, if you eat X number of calories from Y type of food at noon, you'll get one biological response. Eat it at midnight, you'll get another. Why? Because of circadian biology. The body does different things with the same exact number of calories based on when you eat it. Is that nutrition partitioning? Meaning it's going to burn it or store it as fat or it'll store it as fat. Or more insulin resistant in the middle of the night. Militone makes you insulin resistant. So your blood sugar response varies greatly based on that. The fact that you can gain weight from the same number of calories depending when they're eating destroys, calories in calories out. It's an oversimplified lazy way of thinking about weight loss and it's actually cruel to fat people the way I was. The second thing is uranium has a million calories per gram. Actually more than that, I found the math on it once. So if you ate a gram of uranium, you should be really fat and be fine for years, right? You mean you can't process uranium? You mean, oh, how about coal? Coal has a lot of calories in it. Oh, you can't process coal? Oh, so it apparently isn't about calories in calories out. It has to be the right calories that go in. Not the, so wow, different calories do different things. Who would have ever admitted that in a blind calories in, calories out sort of world? The third destruction of the calories in, calorie out myth is a drug that's used in animal husbandry. It's called zeranol. It's an extract of zerylinone, which comes from toxic mold. It's a synthetic bio-xenoestrogen that's a thousand times stronger than human estrogen. They concentrate this toxin. They put it in a cow's ear so it'll enter through the skin where it's thin in the air, circulate throughout the cow and the cow gets fat on 30% less calories. It says ranchers a lot of money. What's it doing? What's the... It drives a estrogen which causes you to gain weight on less calories. So, if this drug can exist and if they use it today to increase yields in agriculture, and if farmers who are making hundreds of millions and actually billions of dollars can measure feed efficiency to see whether X amount of calories from this food makes an animal fat or not, the calorie and calorie out people are gem trolls and nothing else. Okay, that was very pointed. So let's take these one at a time. So the first one, nutrition partitioning. So the body is making a decision as to what to do with the calories that it's in taking. And so you have a lever that you can pull there. So the example that you gave is timing of eating. I'm sure there are others. That's probably the biggest one.

Satchin Pandas Work at the Salk Institute (14:37)

This is based on Sachin Panto's work at the Salk Institute and I've gone down and visited his lab interview a while ago. In fact, you should have him on the show. He's a fascinating guy. And he writes about how his mother in India just stopped eating when it was dark and in about 90 days her type two diabetes went away. She lost a ton of weight. Just from changing when she had to change what she had at all. So the body has a system that says during the day when it sees bright light directly overhead, it expects the largest number of calories. And this goes back 2 billion years to when we were basically bacteria floating in the ocean. You have the most algae to eat and the most sunlight. And we're trying to figure out a timing signal to synchronize all the systems in the body. So when we are single celled organisms and we want to start working with others of our little single celled species, we all need to agree on what time it was. So to this very day, there's a timing system in the body called the SCN in the brain that's primarily controlled through 5% of the cells in your eyes. And when it turns on melatonin because it's dark outside, melatonin makes you insulin resistant. And when you're insulin resistant, what you do with calories is different. You don't take blood sugar and put it in to burning it to make electricity, to make ATP and turning ATP to ADP the things that we do, you're actually taking them to the store and fat. And that's how it works. Okay. So very, very complex process. It is a complex process. It's not just nutrient partitioning, but it's circadian biology. There was a Nobel Prize for this kind of work that was rewarded for, I think, the clock or awarded for the clock gene sometime in the last five or six years. It's relatively new science, but circadian biology really does show the timing of food changes everything. Okay.

Cant Process Certain Nutrients (16:21)

The second one, can't process certain nutrients. Is this where we get into kale and things that have anti-nutrient properties? Like would there be a way to eat so that I could cancel? So if it's not a diet coke that cancels out my candy bar, are there things that I could eat? Yeah. Glucose goddess. She'll have to jessie. I forget her last time. Yeah, she's interesting. And she basically talks about that. That hey, if you eat your, now I don't remember if she said that it would impact your fat accumulation, but assuming that there is a positive correlation or causation between the amount of glucose in your bloodstream and the amount of fat that you store, she says that you can blunt the glucose response by eating your vegetables, your, I would assume, high fiber items prior to the things that would otherwise have a high glycemic load. That's using protein first, actually, and fat. Just you have dessert for dessert, not for your appetizer. And you will have less of a blood sugar spike, which probably will cause you to put on less fat, but not always. If you have a blood sugar spike and you've just worked out, then that drives something called insulin, which is similar to insulin-like growth factor, which is related to human growth hormones. So bodybuilders actually will do a heavy workout, then they'll drink a bunch of multidextrin to spike their blood sugar so that they can put on muscle more. But that's because there's high demand for it.

Olestra (17:48)

If you're in a system where there's not a high demand for glucose and you spike a blood sugar, you're likely to store fat. Okay. And how far do you think that we could push that? So if I wanted to eat junk food, let's be honest, that's what I would want to eat. Sure. But I want to pretty dramatically blunt that effect. Oh, yeah. Let's talk about that. This is another great example for calories and calories out. You could take something called olestra. Have you heard of this? Isn't that what makes you not metabolize fat? Yeah. Oh, this is actually used up. It was a Mickey anus or whatever it was in the packaging of potato chips. And I was like, "I do not want anything like this." But it does block fat. That digestion. You can also take various carbohydrate blockers. Some of them are plant extracts. And they're basically blocking any of the enzymes that break down carbohydrates to release sugar. So now you've eaten calories, but you didn't digest them. And I guess we're not bomb calimeters. Oh, right? If such a drug is possible and calories in, calories out also doesn't matter. And then the trolls will say, "Oh, but those calories don't really count because you ate them, but you didn't absorb them." So I'm like, "Oh, so it's about calories absorbed and calories out." But they don't ever talk about that. They don't talk about what you put in your mouth. So yeah, you can also take binding things like citrus pectin and some other things that slow digestion or even prevent digestion. I don't think it's a good idea to take a carbohydrate blocker, a protein digestion blocker, and a fat blocker, because then you're going to have undigested food that makes it through your system and you're going to be pooping out pieces of food. Oh, you could just drink alkaline water. It'll do the same thing if it's alkaline enough because it stops stomach acid from working. But whatever it is, you can control whether those foods even get digested and absorbed. And the scary thing is Mother Nature knows this. And this is part of what I'm writing about and smarter, not harder.

A Carnivore diet (19:36)

Plant proteins generally come packaged with a protein blocking agent, treatise inhibitors. And they do this. Why would that be a plant protective mechanism? So assuming that all the weird stuff that plants do is because they don't want you to eat them. Is it to get the consumer to be malnourished? Yeah, so that you can't use my plant-based protein so you won't eat me. So most of human plant eating throughout history has been, hmm, this is a great way to stop a famine so I don't starve to death. How do I remove the most toxins from this plant? So it causes the least harm and provides the most calories as apart from the most nourishment because those are different things. To find the different ways. Calories are something you burn to make energy. Plant is things you use as building blocks for your cells. You need minerals. You need polyphenols. You need specific lipids and you need specific amino acids. You don't really need specific carbohydrates to build cells. Less than half a percent of your body is carbohydrate at any one time. Okay, so plants. When I get this far in our conversation, we will get to the third one here in a second. But when I get this far in the conversation with you, I always feel like you're going to say don't eat plants but you don't say that. No, I do not believe that not eating plants is smart. And the carnivore guys, I actually predicted this at the beginning. I said you guys are going to end up eating less inflammatory plants because very few people do well over long periods of time on a carnivore diet or on a vegan diet. I did the carnivore thing when I was writing the Bulletproof Diet book. I went three months with no carbs. Just ate meat and eggs and I did have butter which some people would say isn't carnivore. Some people would. They can't make up their minds. I gave myself autoimmune issues I didn't have and food allergies I didn't have because I gave myself leaky gut because I was having no soluble fiber. And it's not a good solution. My sleep quality went down and down. I want to push on that. So why is no soluble fiber going to break the tight junctions and the epithelial lining of your gut? It's because of bacteria that eats mucus in the lining of your gut. Acromancia. Okay, so you get rid of the bacteria that stops them from doing that? No, the bacteria doesn't have any mucus to eat anymore because mucus is made out of carbohydrate so it goes to town on your gut lining, interesting. Okay. So what I would say is going carnivore for 30 days. A great idea. The truth is hitting your career goals is not easy. You have to be willing to go the extra mile to stand out and do hard things better than anybody else. But there are 10 steps I want to take you through that will 100 X your efficiency so you can crush your goals and get back more time into your day. So not only get control of your time, you'll learn how to use that momentum to take on your next big goal. To help you do this, I've created a list of the 10 most impactful things that any high achiever needs to dominate. And you can download it for free by clicking the link in today's description. All right, my friend, back to today's episode. Hell yeah, reset your gut bacteria. Get rid of all the bad actors in there.

Collagen (22:35)

It's great. And if you wanted to increase butyric acid formation, which is one of the most important things that your gut bacteria are doing. You could eat lots of collagen and I'm going to make collagen a billion dollar interest and I'm kind of a fan. Collagen can ferment in the gut to become butyric acid. It doesn't always depending on what gut bacteria you have. They call that animal fiber. So if you're going to go carnivore, you should be just eating a lot, like a lot of collagen along with your stakes and your organ means. And after a month of that, you're going to do where it goes, oh, I guess I'll have some carbs. Just have less inflammation, less inflammatory carbs. There's a great argument for herbs and spices as being mother nature's original multivitamins. That's why we had first salt trading roots through Asia. That's because salt is where minerals come from, rock salt. And that was all we had as supplements and we are made out of salt water like is in the ocean. So getting enough of that salt was precious. The next thing they added on top of that was spices and herbs. So they were trading these not just because they tasted good. They're trading these because these were sources of rare minerals that you couldn't get otherwise and polyphenols that were useful for it. So all of herbal medicine is based on those two things. And I think eating no plants at all is a bad idea. I also think eating a wide variety of rainbows without looking at the pros and cons of each one of those plants is a fool's errand and there is no historical record of humans ever doing that. We did not have frozen blueberries from Peru when we were cavemen. We just didn't. We ate what was seasonal, what was around us. And there were a few precious things that we traded with people who lived far away for that provided things like manganese or zinc or something that we needed. And those were herbs. That is so interesting. I don't know how people figured this stuff out. So okay, you're back in the day and you are just absolutely slaughtering people to get their spices. And what we're saying is there was ancient wisdom. I don't know what else to call it. Around, ooh, eat these things, feel better or something. And you're saying that that is because you go, there's actually two sections of smart and not harder that talks about minerals. So you're like load up on raw minerals and then charge up on raw minerals. So can I not get minerals from eating animal flesh? You don't get very many minerals from animal flesh. You'll get some iron. But most of it is in the organ meats. Because that's just as it processes carbohydrate. Let me see if I understand the process. I don't know how the minerals end up in the soil other than through excrement. So this becomes a chicken and egg problem. But let's just say for a second that we're at the level of healthy soil. So the soil has minerals in it. The minerals get absorbed by the plants, certain plants. We eat those plants. We thusly get those minerals. From an evolutionary standpoint, our body has grown expectant that we will eat these sources of carbohydrate that do have these minerals in them or from an evolutionary standpoint. So that's option A. Option B is same scenario up to the animals eat the stuff with the minerals. So they eat the plants. We then eat nose to tail. So we're eating the organs, the organs in processing the carbohydrates that it ate. Retain minerals from what they ate. They use the trace minerals. They don't just retain them. They have the minerals in them because they need those minerals to do their function as organs.

Body Fat (26:10)

Do we store minerals in do animals, store minerals in body fat? Not very many. We store toxic metals in our body fat. But there's not a lot of any metal in your body fat that I'm aware of. I don't want to derail on that. Is that to trap it? Yeah, it's to trap it. So when you biopsy body fat from people... Does poison get stored in body fat? Absolutely. It's one of the reasons that I read about rapid... I have a protocol on where I talk about the rapid fat loss protocol and it's how to lose weight fast when you're supposed to.

Lose a Pound a Day for 75-Days (26:40)

And it's got all these warnings. I had to go lose a pound a day for 75 days. You just start releasing... Well, you have to take glutathione and charcoal and all these toxin binders because otherwise you get profound brain fog because you're dumping metals and pesticides and your fat is full of that stuff. It's ridiculous.

The Role Of Hormones, Enzymes And Minerals In Weight Management

How fat creates estrogen. (26:56)

Fat also, though, creates estrogen. It turns testosterone into estrogen. And I'll show you some pictures, actually. I just found them when I was moving to Austin a couple months ago. They're polaroids from a photoshoot. I did a French-German magazine when I was 23, when I weighed 300 pounds. And I'm like, "I can't believe I wore a double extra large t-shirt." But my estrogen was so high and my testosterone was so low because of the body fat and toxic mold that I'm very androgynous in the pictures. That's weird. And that's what happens from fat. But the fat was storing mold toxins, estrogenic mold toxins, rather than sticking them in my liver and my brain. Okay.

Enzymatic reactions and how they work. (27:33)

Super interesting. Going back to the organs are using the minerals in just cellular function. Yeah. So a lot of biological processes use enzymatic reactions. And this is why bomb calorimeters are a poor model for this. In biochemistry, we take a reaction that would have required a lot of heat. And we do it with very little heat using what's probably quantum tunneling, but using enzymatic reactions. So enzymes allow a chemical reaction to happen with a lot less energy than otherwise would be. That's why biochemistry is different than physical chemistry or just normal chemistry. And the people who are saying, "Well, if I burn it, I'm not going to chemistry." Well, if you wanted to get something done chemically with just raw chemicals, see, you want to break some down and pour some acid in it, it requires a lot of heat. But if you're in a biological system and you don't want a lot of heat, there are more elegant solutions to do this. And they're almost always based on enzymes. And enzymes are almost always based on something like boron or zizin. Is that because it's a facilitated chemical reaction? We believe, and this is outside my official pay grade. I don't have a degree in this. I haven't studied like the wing it with me. Yeah, I haven't studied like the material science elements of enzymes. So guys, if you're a PhD, please help. I'm actually interested. But as I've had it explained from people who are these kinds of people, when we're doing a reaction in the body, say to make body heat or something like that, we're not using it with a bick lighter and flame and burning something and oxidizing it at all. We're using a more elegant approach that requires moving electrons around and we do that with enzymes so that it doesn't make as much heat so that it's the most elegant and efficient system that probably that you can evolve. And it just works differently than burning stuff. So burning stuff is a model for physical chemistry, but you actually take classes in biochemistry because we don't do it the same way in life.

Why the body needs minerals. (29:20)

There's a required elegance. If we had to light ourselves on fire to do stuff, we wouldn't work very well. We're not steam engines. That's really interesting. So I know nothing about chemistry, but as you were saying that, that was sort of my guess is I think of the body, I know it's going to be debated as to whether it's conscious and intelligent. I don't think of it as conscious and intelligent, but I do think of it as they have their own agenda. They've got programming and they run that programming. And so if you need something like a if a raw physical chemical reaction is just two things collide and they will do the same thing every time versus putting it in a system that has little workers that move things around and take care of, they facilitate that reaction. Okay, that makes intuitive sense to me though. I'm sure I'm way off the reality. So I want to really understand this using of the minerals. So our organs, all animal organs are using the minerals to facilitate these transaction chemical reactions. The chemical reaction complex chemicals that allow life itself to happen. But you need those minerals to make all of that work. Yeah, you need minerals to make your mitochondria work. If you don't have magnesium and calcium and potassium at all in the body, you don't have a body. You just have a lump of gooey stuff. They're required for life. And they're required for thousands of different reactions in the body. And what is elegant and I would argue intelligent in your meat, your meat is blindingly fast and blindingly stupid. But it is kind of fast and stupid. It's quite a number. And we are blindingly slow. That's like a third of a second delay. We don't even know we have it, but we're incredibly intelligent. So we have these two opposing systems, which work well in unison to keep you from getting eaten by tigers and to keep you from starving to death because you saved some food for winter. So it's kind of been a successful system. There's eight billion of us floating around. But you were asking about some other aspect of that around... No, just I'm trying to understand minerals because I know it becomes a big part of your overall thesis of the book. Oh, I got it. Here's what's happening. It's stupid, but it has a stack ranked list of important processes and a signal for each one. So it says I have a thousand things that need magnesium, but this guy is only taking 200 milligrams a day and he needed 1.2 grams. So what do I not do? It's kind of like you're playing with SimCity or something and you're like, "Okay, I don't have enough resources. Do I allocate it towards building a muscle or do I allocate it towards making more metacondra towards making the brain work better?" We don't generally get to say what happens there, but what the body will stop doing is getting rid of old burned out zombie cells. It doesn't need to do that to stay alive now because it cares about the now. But if you give it enough minerals, it will do that as long as it gets a signal that it's worth the work. The thesis behind Smarter Not Harder is that our systems are elegantly lazy and that we are lazy as a result and that there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, laziness has driven all progress in humans.

Laziness has driven all progress (32:26)

I'm going to paraphrase something from the book which I found interesting. So when people come to me in my realm, it's always, "Why do I have this grand ambition but I feel super lazy?" I explained something similar to what you go into in the book. Obviously, I have a lot more detail, but that evolution has given you two impulses. One, go hunt and make sure that you provide and the other is make sure that you don't use more calories than you absolutely need to. Otherwise, you have to go hunt too much. It's too risky. In the book, you talk about how that's actually embedded down at every single cell. Has that impulse? I thought it was a pretty useful insight. It's what you open the book with. Why does this matter so much? How do we integrate it? Yeah. It matters so much because certainly when I was overweight and just hitting at the gym and all that, the company was, "I'm not trying hard enough. I'm lazy." Something must be wrong with me because I don't want to do this. When you understand that that laziness motivates you to do things better, we have cars because we were too lazy to walk. We have fire because we were too lazy to shiver under a blanket. We have blankets because we were too lazy to shiver without a blanket. Everything we've ever made that makes life good is because we didn't want to do something. Yet we blame ourselves for that. Have you ever had someone come home and say, "I just saved $400 on a pair of shoes?" No. No. Never. Not a handbag. Not a particular one. Should I get the idea? Oh, I guess. You could do. How many times would that same person, not naming names, say, "I just spent $300 on the shoes of the handbag." We don't focus on what we spend. That's effort. We focus on what we save. It's incredibly motivating. Companies know that "save $5" is actually more important to us than spending $15. What the hell? You're unconscious and your meat operating system values saving time and money and energy because it's lazy. Why don't we use that as our motivator? What I teach people to do in Smarter Not Harder is to say, "The history of let's take exercises of one of the demands." You pick up rocks or you run away from tigers. That is some type of that. What if there was an AI-driven system, like the one we have at Upgrade Labs, that allowed you to get six times better cardiovascular improvement in a tiny fraction of the time of going to a spend class? Would you do it? The answer is most people would say, "Hey, yeah, I only have to spend five minutes, three times a week, and I get more results than going to an hour class five times a week. I'm in." Well, there is such a system. It's driven by AI. It's customized for each person and all that. When you do it, you're still not motivated to go do it because no one's motivated to go to the gym. You could say, "I'm going to use my willpower. I'm going to form a daily habit. I'm going to pat myself on the back and say, "I'm a good person." Or you could say, "You know what? I saved 55 minutes today and you focus on how much time you saved." That strangely motivates your hardware and you're like, "Oh, I'm going to do this. I'm going to go save an hour." So you're willing to go do five minutes. But if you said, "I'm going to go spend five minutes," you wouldn't have been willing to do it. That's the laziness principle. It's understanding it's a good thing that you don't want to waste your life doing stuff that doesn't work very well. And the reason that I spent a portion of my life writing the book is that I want people to have their time and their energy back. I am not happy that I spent 702 hours not losing weight at the gym following bad advice because there are things that are so much more effective than what people do. So most of us buy a gym membership and we don't go. And we say, "Well, I have it. I know that I could go. I know that someday later when I'm not feeling this lazy, I'll probably go." And this is why there's $400 million a year of gym memberships that no one ever uses.

ZenoRal hormonal function (36:18)

I want to close the loop on weight loss. So the third thing, just because I said that we would cover it was the zeronal-- That was a realm. --a realm. Yeah. So you've got the cows getting fat on less calories. So we're able to-- what's the mechanism that's breaking down? Is it just the increase in estrogen and estrogen's job is to-- Signal fat storage. And oh, God. So now I am way beyond what I actually understand. But okay. So obviously women actually have more testosterone than estrogen, but they have way more estrogen than men have. It is my understanding that women store more fat than men on average. And it is my understanding that the reason they do that is if you think about fertility, we need to have extra resources around to be able to carry a child, nurse a child, et cetera. So it makes them-- They don't just store more fat. They store more EPA and especially DHA, especially in their five- --rain development for a child. Yes. That's where the first child has a higher IQ, in part, because it got all of mom's fish oil that was storing her fat for the baby. My first book was on fertility, so I went really deep on it. Okay. Super interesting. So we'll put that in the bucket of hormonal effects. Yeah.

Calories (37:34)

So in fact, going back to just the calories, not a calorie, am I correct that if you were to put a woman on artificially high levels of testosterone that she would begin losing body fat? She would absolutely begin losing body fat. She'd put on muscle mass as well, too. She might also get a low voice in body hair if you did too much of it. But body composition is massively controlled by the amount of testosterone you have. So you get these-- usually it's the same calories in, calories out, people, and they're saying, "Well, if you just work out hard enough, then you'll somehow grow testosterone, even though testosterone is related to the quality of your sleep and eating enough saturated fat." But saturated fat has calories, so they're oftentimes opposed to that. And you're supposed to somehow eat low fat things and gain muscle mass and raise your testosterone. It doesn't appear to work that way. At this point, on a high saturated fat diet with grass-fed protein and adequate protein, it's very important if you're trying to lose weight. It helps with the toxin flushing out thing from the fat. It helps with protein, helps with cell membranes. And people lost more than 2 million pounds on the bulletproof diet. And yeah, it pissed off all the calories and calories out people. But it's a lot easier to not be hungry all the time until lose weight. And that's what I want people to understand. If you're hungry all the time, you're probably doing it wrong. There's nothing wrong with being hungry every now and then you should teach yourself to not feel like you're going to die when you're hungry. That's when fasting is for. But when you eat, it's getting enough usable protein. And something we haven't talked about that's also in the book. Plant-based proteins have a lower biological availability than animal-based proteins. So if you eat a piece of steak, that's at the very high end and you eat eggs, it's in the middle and milk is about in the middle. And plant-based proteins like rice protein and soy protein and all those things are much, much lower. So a gram of plant protein is not the same as a gram of animal protein when you're looking at putting on muscle or losing weight. Okay, so from a putting on muscle perspective, I'm assuming this is an amino acid profile question. Availability and profile. They're different. It's called DIAA, it is the measure of that. But especially digestive, I'm going to butcher whatever it stands for, digestive digestible available amino acids. Something to do with digestion.

Fitness And Stress Management Activities

DIAA (39:48)

Yeah, I just remember what the acronym stands for, but you can look it up. What you'll find there is that just because there are amino acids in something, if there's something that blocks your body's ability to break the protein down into them, it's not a digestible protein. Right? And if you don't believe in your hair's nail out protein, like have a hair salad, you can't digest it, it doesn't do anything. So we know intuitively that what I'm saying has truth in it, but what we don't know is why can't you digest hair if it's you don't have the enzymes to break keratin down. Interesting. Yeah. But if I did, I could eat hair. I'm sure there's an animal out there probably a worm or something that is totally happy to eat hair. Otherwise, or cockroaches. Otherwise we'd have piles of hair built up like we do artificial fur fibers everywhere. Nothing can eat that. Wow. Okay, that's super interesting. Okay, so now we I think have a pretty neat container on fat loss, but now talk to me about why can't I work out hard enough that I can meaningfully lose weight? Like if I had a reasonable amount of calories, I'm maybe a tiny bit over maintenance. We know it's not as simple as I eat 100 extra calories therefore exercise 150 calories and you're going to lose weight. So we know there's complexity in there, but why like if somebody came to me and said, Tom, in the next six months, I have to lose weight and I can either exercise or diet. I'd be like, all day diet. Amen. Right. Just just I know we'll be able to explain why it works like you can, but it is certainly anecdotally just obvious to me in terms of what I've done with myself, my wife, everybody that I know it's like, if you clean up your diet, you're going to be way better off. But why?

Marathon Runner (41:26)

Like when I think about a marathon runner or somebody that's in fact, let me make a statement, I believe to be true and maybe it's not, but I used to have an employee that was an Olympic level swimmer. So you know, I went to the Olympics, but he was like one place out from California. And he said that he would just eat an unimaginable amount of junk food and McDonald's French fries, all of it. And he was like, I could be misquoting, but it was something like 10 or 11,000 calories a day. And he said, Tom, I had six pack abs at all times, but he was like, the amount of swimming I had to do was so insane. That's why. So is it just that, oh, you can get there, but you're going to have to be professional athlete level of working out or is he lying wrong, whatever? If you can do that level of exercise, you're already reasonably healthy. So you can keep up that regimen until you can't anymore. Most people today are not metabolically healthy enough that even if they had all the willpower in the world that they would be able to do that amount of exercise, we're that unhealthy. Can I ask a pointed question on that? I know you're going somewhere. But if you have somebody like that, so they're metabolically healthy, they're eating terribly. And my assumption here is because their muscles are screaming for glucose because you've just beaten the life, you've used them so much, it is my understanding that when your muscles are in need of glucose, you don't actually need insulin to get the glucose into the muscle tissue, which means that your glucose levels would remain low and whatever damage glucose does to the, or sorry, insulin does to the system, making the cells insulin resistant, making it harder for you to put the fat on, making pre-diabetic, so on and so forth. If I'm right about that, that that would be why that person doesn't become metabolically unhealthy even though they're processing a lot of food that would make somebody else metabolically unhealthy. Because the way this guy described his diet, if I wanted to break somebody's metabolism, I'd say eat 10,000 calories a day of McDonald's. Like just go, God, I can feel the comments letting on fire. Generically, meaning you're eating all the fried food, the bun, the like everything, everything. So maybe now you need either, if anything I just said is incorrect, let me know.

Swim more with David Sinclair (43:51)

Okay. So you're just saying if you swim a lot, like an absurd amount, exercise. Yeah, exercise. Although I think swimming is in particular an important part here because of all the, he's basically teaching his body to make more body heat by being in a cold environment. So swimming is actually a form of cold therapy as well as exercise and you can get cold therapy without exercise that does that. When you drive more thermogenesis that way, it's called mitochondrial uncoupling. There's a metabolic benefit to that. But the reality is this is a person who has enough thyroid, has enough testosterone at the start and probably has one of those genetic profiles that's less susceptible to toxins in the environment. But they're not bulletproof. I had a friend who was like that. He was a semi-professional cyclist. Friends with Lance Armstrong rode the 100 miles a day sometimes for fun, just hard-gart pizza, beer, hot dogs, junk food, 10,000 calories a day. No, he wasn't. He wasn't a whole not a level of complexity. He wasn't doping. He was just a semi-pro cyclist. Okay. No, he wasn't actually competing. He just rode with all the guys competing and just an amazing guy. He was also an early inventor of Blade Server Technology as a foundational internet thing. So he died on Sandhill Road at 46 of a heart attack with us. This is not uncommon for people who exercise at that level who eat junk food. If you exercise at that level, you have to eat even better because you're putting an extra load on your system. And if you are blessed the way I was not and you were not with a system that's resilient to mercury and resilient to mold, doesn't have systemic inflammation, doesn't have extra blood clotting isn't susceptible to prediabetes, all of which I have. If you're blessed with one of those, you shouldn't abuse it. You could probably live a really long time if you were to use a little bit of biohacking techniques and you were to apply the right amount of work for your body to feel good and get the muscle you want. You'd also probably have a lot of extra time left over. But if you love swimming for four hours a day and it's not just endorphins driving you, then you should do that. But if you do that and you combine it with junk food, the fact you can eat junk food doesn't mean it's not harming you. The fact you don't get fat from it doesn't mean it's not harming you. You look at the labs of marathon runners, of triathletes, these are not the labs of healthy people. They're labs of people who could be profoundly healthy if they weren't overtraining and pushing themselves over the limit. So if you want to run a marathon, do it. But don't convince yourself that you're doing it to be healthy. You're doing it to prove something to yourself. And that's valuable. First guy ran a marathon, died. That's why we celebrate the marathon. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Using muscle to lower blood sugar (kind of) (46:27)

It's interesting. You talk about that in the book, I remember. I think I do, yeah. Okay. So we won just to ask directly, am I off base with the, if you use the muscle, you need less insulin to get the muscle. You need less insulin. I don't believe you need no insulin because a no insulin person is a dead person. Insulin's kind of important. Right. Very important. Absolutely. Sorry, I'm screaming for blood sugar. They will need less insulin to get blood sugar and they'll absorb it quickly. And this is why you can eat some sugar and then do 20 squats, just air squats. And your blood glucose won't spike. Yeah, I really have tested this. So this is really interesting. In fact, let me, I'm going to run something by you. Sure. Maybe you'll even know what's happening. Okay. So I was working 120 hours a week. I start getting dizzy. And I'm like, well, clearly a brain tumor. Go to the doctor. You should have caught in your head. And uh, it's too salt already. Yeah. The doctor was like, no, no, no, this isn't, do they do all the scans and everything? Don't know, don't know, don't know. He was like, Hey, are you by any chance, um, stressed? And I was like, yes. And he was like, okay, it could be that. Like try to relax and see if it goes away. To say that I read, lacks would be alive, but maybe push, you know, meditation a little bit more, try to one, just knowing that it wasn't a brain tumor that also helped. And so it slowly goes away.

Christmas (47:57)

And so I'm like, okay, cool. Uh, Christmas time, this Christmas that just passed comes along and I have learned the lesson that you were just talking about that I can regulate my blood glucose by working out. And so, uh, 98% of the year, I clean, but during Christmas, I let myself eat whatever I want regulated only by discomfort with having a body that I no longer recognize his mind. And so this Christmas, I thought, Oh, I'm going to run an experiment. I'm going to, uh, wear a continuous glucose monitor the whole time and I'm going to keep my levels below a hundred and see if for the day, yeah, so for the day, if I can keep my, my average in the mid eighties, how do I do? So I keep my average in the mid eighties. I'm like, this is, I have found the cheat code to eating badly. I'm like, this is amazing. One, I'm maintaining my physique because I'm working out. Two, I normally would resent working out over a holiday like that, but because I had a goal, it made it fun. Right. And so I was like, wow, this is really cool. I cannot believe this is working. And then I got dizzy. And I was like, whoa, and I was keeping my blood sugar in the on average for the day. It would have spikes, but on average for the day, I was at 84, 85. So I was like, this is amazing. And then I started getting dizzy again. And immediately I always ask the question, I've had this again. So I know it's not a brain tumor. And if somebody, if I have a symptom, I always say, what would I tell somebody that came to me? And I'm like, 100% at something you're eating.

Stress (49:20)

So I'm like, okay, well, I'm, I know I get this when I'm really stressed. I'm eating food that's clearly stressing my body in some way. Will this go away if I stop eating the junk food? I stop eating the junk food and it went away. And so I'm like, okay, what, what is actually happening? Like what's the, is it paralyzing the cilia in my ear? Like what's going on? You had adrenal dysfunction because your adrenals couldn't make enough cortisol to keep your blood pressure high. So there's two reasons people get dizzy that don't have to do with the inner ear. And it's usually not the inner ear. If it's where to go or like that weird thing you get from swimming and standing upside down with it. It wasn't that it was imagined drinking. Yeah. And then when you lay down the world spins. Low blood pressure. Really? Yeah. So one thing I didn't. When you get stressed your body loses the ability to make enough cortisol and adrenaline to keep your blood pressure high. It wasn't lightheaded. What? It's different. It's a dizzy feeling. I know I've had low blood pressure in my entire life. It's a genetic thing. Interesting. So the spinny feeling like that. So if you would have had a big glass of water with some salt in it or better yet. Some electrolytes like that. I'm going to test this. Which would have increased your blood volume. So skeptical right now. That seems impossible that that would be. No. Because I've had low blood pressure where you stand up and you're like, whoa. It wasn't that. It wasn't that at all. So if you've had that. But you've never had chronic low blood pressure that's low when you're sitting there. Not that I know. What I think would have fixed you. When I have high blood pressure when I'm stressed. It turns out you can have both. At first you get high blood pressure. But when cortisol stops working and your adrenals run out of the ability to do this. By the way they need minerals to do that. You might have been low on minerals. But then your body says, I can't do this anymore. And that's burnout. Right. So stress is high blood pressure. Burnout of adrenals you're sitting there. Let's just burnout of a person. But yeah you get adrenal burnout. So I didn't feel burned out of a Christmas. Let me tell you I felt fucking awesome. You felt fucking awesome. Right. I mean other than I'm having a lot of sugar. So maybe it's a joint pain.

Biohacking Techniques For Health Improvement

Manage Your Adrenals (51:16)

I mean if you're not experiencing low blood sugar at all. I definitely wasn't low blood sugar at all. Okay good. So you don't have low blood sugar. That's the thing to rule out. The next thing to look at is blood pressure. You can get a blood pressure cuff. But when people are doing 120 hour weeks or even when you're just dealing with jet lag. Which is also profoundly biologically stressing. Those little cells in your body don't understand you just move five time zones. And then they send you feel like crap signals. What works remarkably well is supplementing your body's ability to handle your adrenals. So step one would be licorice root. You take a couple of little licorice root capsules that help support healthy levels of blood pressure. Can I eat licorice? It's full of gluten and sugar. But if you could find some that's free of gluten and sugar like little tiny black ones that are really strongly licorice flavored those work as well. If you get too much of it it's probably bad for either liver or kidneys I don't remember. But licorice root itself is a good herb for that. The second thing would be adaptogenic herbs that help your body turn off stress. And the third thing would be actually adrenal glandulars which is what I actually use all those. Adrenal glandulars. Yeah it's extract of the adrenal gland of animals. Just like you would take liver powder. This is adrenal powder. When you take that it lets your body's adrenals work better. I promise you that if you're working 120 hours a week you're pushing way beyond your biological capacity. So what you do then is you supplement your biological capacity. The fourth thing you would do which is what I also do if I'm going to be traveling to do buyer somewhere overnight and wake up and feel normal is you take a small amount of bioidentical cortisol like you would thyroid hormone. Cortisol is not a bad hormone. Is that over the counter? No it's prescription it's called Cortef. It's a drug that's been around for 70 or 80 years. And you take a very small amount, 5mg of that and you might feel a little angry for a minute or two as it metabolizes and then you get your energy back. So this is how you take someone who's reached burnout and you allow them to recover faster from burnout and you allow them to perform so you can stand up on stage even when you've been flying for 32 hours of gazeba flight delay and you still want to show up and be yourself. You can do that but you better manage your adrenals. Starts with salt actually before salt. Salt's for the blood pressure. Yeah. And adrenals need extra salt. And minerals? Yep. So you would use salt and trace minerals. So here's what I do. I land in the morning somewhere else on the planet where my body has no idea of time it is. I have this is going to sound like a plug but it's not. I have danger coffee because you need coffee to raise your cortisol to tell yourself it's morning. That's normal and I need the minerals anyway or I could take a mineral supplement actually and I take a mineral supplement. Then I take my licorice root then I take 5mg of Cortef and I take an adrenal glandular and I take adaptogenica. And when you do all that your body is like I got this stress. I can handle this and you can move the wall way out.

Tools for Managing Our State (54:05)

You can still hit the wall but you can get a lot of speed before you hit the wall. So if you're working a hundred and twenty hours a week and you do this to push through and to get the product to launch and you do that for three weeks it's going to cost you but it's going to be a high performance three weeks and it's going to cost you less than if you just did it with willpower alone. There are tools for managing our state and the world and for making our meat handle way more stress than it thinks it can without taking damage. Our meat handle? Yeah your meat has to handle more stress. What about your meat is doing this it's not you. Okay fair. Okay so coming back one more time to why can't I work out enough to beat a bad diet? Well there is such a thing as an obeseogen. Something that's just pro fat store. That makes you store fat. An example would be MSG. So MSG when you eat it will raise restaurant revenues by 30% because people who get MSG get profound sugar cravings and then they order more soda, more alcohol and more dessert. So if you're eating some with MSG all the time you're going to eat more. It's just how it works. MSG also affects your ability to regulate your blood sugar effectively. So that's an example of one of those things and when you get some of these other things like artificial colories, artificial flavorings they have an effect on the gut bacteria. And that's another thing that the calories in, calories out people absolutely hate and I read about this in the Bulletproof Diet, my big diet book. There's actually a contagious form of obesity and I wrote about a couple of cases of it also on my blog where people would get scratched by a chicken and a certain kind of bacteria gets into their body and you can't wait no matter what. From, I said bacteria it's actually a virus as I recall. But it's treatable. It is a condition though that you can pick up that is infectious. That should not be possible. I don't know how that one works. But the cases of it are crazy. People like I was completely normal weight and then I got this scratch, I got an exposure and then I just got fat and I stayed fat. There's also very clear evidence from mice and humans. You can take gut bacteria from thin people who are usually calories in, calories out trolls because they never had to deal with obesity. You take their bacteria and put it in a fat person and magically the fat person starts to lose weight. In fact, they can lose all of their weight from a fecal transplant. You can then take the fat person gut bacteria which is higher in fermic cuties versus bacteria deities. What the hell is fermic cuties? Two different phylum of stuff in your gut bacteria. But basically the ratio of these two controls whether your body is likely to gain more weight or lose more weight. When you take the fat person's gut bacteria and put it in the thin calorie troll and then when they can't lose weight no matter what they do then they have to face reality that it's not the way they really, really, really wanted to be. No matter how much their mother's yelled at them when they were young which made them growing up bullies. I have a feeling you've spent a lot of time with people talking about calories and calories out. Okay, so what then if I have a person whose diet is like on point so they're not, they're literally following every bit of guidance you've given. At that point is exercise going to be beneficial in losing fat or is that always just a, look it's, you work out for something else completely don't even think about it for fat loss. It might be mildly beneficial. In people who say, oh you know do lots of cardio for fat loss. The only type of exercise that I would recommend for fat loss specifically is something I write about in the book. It's not like just running, running good, more running better is kind of the way we think about it. But any sort of cardio there's very different patterns you can make and the best analogy is music. We can have just a bunch of static or just like city noise and it's just random. Well noise is bad for you but then you take that same pattern and you rearrange it into a beat and all of a sudden, oh that's not noise, that's music. It's the same amount of energy, it actually is energy in the sound. But magically how you order it, how you arrange it changes things. It's the same with cardio. So this is something called zone two training which you can really only do with a heart rate monitor. And there's an equation in the book and I don't have it memorized off my head but there's a very narrow window, I think it's around 70% of your maximum heart rate. And when you work out at that level which is pretty much you can have a comfortable conversation without being winded but you're almost winded but you're probably not going to be able to feel yourself there. You have to have a monitor. This is a rate where your body will burn fat and it drives your metabolism, it's metabolically very beneficial for you. That's a steady state. It's a steady state but it's at a very specific narrow band.

Zone Two Training (58:49)

If you exceed the band it's not beneficial for fat loss. If you go underneath the band it's not beneficial. So there's studies that show I think it's an hour and a half of that a week, has good effects on fat loss and on metabolic function but an hour and a half a week is a pretty big investment of time. I prefer what we talked about in the book as re-hit, reduced exertion high intensity interval training and the big thing, how does that differentiate from a hit high intensity interval journey? With high intensity you basically sprint for a minute and then you walk for a couple minutes and you sprint for a minute, walk for a couple minutes, you do that three times, four times. When I looked into that the guys that like swore by it were shredded. Oh yeah, it totally works.

Upgrade Labs Biohack. (59:28)

Hit works, right? And it gives you conditioning in less time and it's metabolically really beneficial for your mitochondria. What re-hit does though is it takes- Give me those initials again. Re-hit, re-hit, R-E-H-I-T, reduce- R-E-H-I-T. They dropped an I in it for some reason but it's reduced exertion high intensity training. And what it is is an AI driven algorithm, and by the way upgrade labs you can go to if you want to open a facility that does this and all the other biohacks in here. But what's interesting with re-hit, it's only ten seconds of high intensity exercise but the principle that drives that is a principle that supports everyone with a biohacks in the book. It's that there's a way to get a signal into your meat operating system to make it change. And if you can drive the signal in very quickly and then take it away very quickly, you adapt. But if instead you push the signal on and you leave it on for a while the body doesn't adapt very well, it just gets stressed. So the idea is you play with the edge and then return. Play with the edge and then return. What most of us do though is we maybe go to the edge and then we hover around 75% of the edges as long as we can until we feel like crap and then we're all sweaty, we get into our friends and then we go about our day and think we did the good thing. What is up my friend Tom Bill you here and I have a big question to ask you how would you rate your level of personal discipline on a scale of one to ten if your answer is anything less than a ten? I've got something cool for you. And let me tell you right now, discipline by its very nature means compelling yourself to do difficult things that are stressful, boring which is what kills most people or possibly scary or even painful. Now here is the thing, achieving huge goals and stretching to reach your potential requires you to do those challenging stressful things and to stick with them even when it gets boring and it will get boring. Building your levels of personal discipline is not easy but let me tell you it pays off. In fact I will tell you you're never going to achieve anything meaningful unless you develop discipline. I've just released a class from Impact Theory University called How to Build Ironclad Discipline that teaches you the process of building yourself up in this area so that you can push yourself to do the hard things that greatness is going to require of you. Right click the link on the screen, register for this class right now and let's get to work. I will see you inside this workshop from Impact Theory University. Until then my friends be legendary. Peace out. It turns out with Rehead it's how quickly can I spike my intensity without going over and then how it's going over at the time. Going over is when you produce a state of disequilibrium where you actually destabilize the systems in the body so you create stress that's long lasting but you have to do this very quickly. So you're writing on this bike and it's like really slow and there's an AI algorithm reading your heart rate and it's like no you're going too fast and you're like bored and all of a sudden it's like terror and then it gets really hard to pedal and you have to pedal as hard as you can for exactly 10 seconds. And then and this is where it gets really interesting. There's a voice in your head looking at your heart rate it's like okay you made it and then as rapidly as you can you return to normal heart rate and it's the speed that you return from stress to normal that tells the body that it was safe. So okay hold on. Don't move. Don't move. Don't move. Fast. Fast. So alright I create this peak I get good either using the AI or whatever at knowing I need to come right back down. But the amount of time it takes me to get back to neutral is going to have a lot to do with my current level of fitness. So and your current level of behavior tell me more that violates what I think I know.

High intensity protocol. (01:02:56)

If you were to go for 30 seconds or a minute like you would in high intensity interval training what you said is true. Well you're doing a 10 seconds bike like that it dumps a lot of glucose right it causes an immediate response but it doesn't destabilize the body the way running for a minute would. And so then what you're doing is you're telling the body you have to be able to do something really difficult but then as soon as it's done you're safe and you can return. If you wanted to hack this instead of doing normal high intensity one minute intervals and I write the full instructions in the book and smart it out harder what you do is you can't do this on a treadmill because you can't make the treadmill go fast enough and be steep enough. What you do is you'd go to a park and you'd walk so slowly like you're bored like you're kicking a corn bubble board and then you would sprint with every fiber of your body as if you are going to die for 10 seconds and then when you're done you'd probably lay on your back and just like do deep breathing relaxation exercises as fast as you can drop your heart rate and that is more effective. Want to say more effective Tom? More effective at losing fat. No at VO2 max increasing which is a pretty low fat loss. If you were to do five days a week spin classes over six weeks you'll get a 2% VO2 max improvement. If you were to do re-hit three times a week for five minutes you would get a 12% improvement. It is six times more improvement in a tiny fraction of the effort and time. It's that big of a deal. It's a hack. It's a little window to tell the body to do that. So what is it about the rapid reduction in exertion that tells the body get better at this? It's just so counterintuitive. It's one of the foundational principles in the book. I call it slope of the curve biology. We like to think using kind of our lazy algorithms in our brains that it's area under the curve. It's the amount of work you do. That's what has merit. That's the struggle. That's the strive. What the meat operating system is listening to is how much work could I handle and still be okay? It doesn't like the grind. It's lazy. But it will listen if you tell it, "Oh look you can do this and still be safe." But if you tell it, you can do this and go into the danger zone and be in a state where you're not safe and then you're just going to grind it out using your willpower over time, you're probably going to do that. It just doesn't adapt as well. Man, this doesn't make sense to me yet. I understand what you're saying. It breaks something intuitively. So to the area under the curve. Okay, I've always had the thought when it comes to the transformation I put my own body through, I always thought of it as, "I have to give my body the impulse to adapt or die." And so I put it under massive amount of strain and I say, "I'm not going to stop." So you better get good at dealing with this. And that feels like, and again, I could just be wrong, but it feels like that was exactly how I added muscle and loss fat was by really putting myself in a sustained, difficult position.

Build Plus Adapt to Overcome (01:05:54)

It works. All right, when I did my 702 hours in the gym, I could max out all the two of the machines. I got stronger. It didn't lose the way, but I got stronger. It just was not very efficient for the amount of time that took to do that. But what I get the impulse though, if the meat suit is like, "Oh man, we're really going to be under these intense periods where I have to run really fast for a long period of time or whatever. And if I don't, I'm not going to survive. I get why it would adapt. If it's like, "Oh, I can handle that and all as well, why does it adapt? Why a change?" Because it's all what I think you're saying and it may just be that I'm misunderstanding, is that you're giving it a peak that it knows it's fine. It can handle that. But if it knows it can handle that, why change? What the AI system is doing and upgrade labs is we're driving you to the edge of it so the body is concerned that it's going to die, but it didn't. And if you take the body to the point where it's concerned, it's going to die and it stays there, there's a name for that. It's basically terror, but it's cellular terror, the cell danger response, all these things happen. And then the body takes a long time to adapt. And then you spend a lot of your electricity on a stress response, not on an adaptive response. What we're doing is we're turning on a very specific signal that tells the body, "Adapt without all the stress." Got it. So to put it in my language, I'm giving it a very acute adapter die impulse, but I don't sustain that so that it becomes a stress response, which somehow mitigates or slows down the adaptation. Exactly. Every bit of electricity and building blocks and minerals and calories and everything else that you put into a stress response that wasn't an adaptive response or your body getting stronger, it's actually wasted. So what I believe is that the vast majority of people listening to the show wants to want to exercise, but they don't actually want to exercise because we live in lazy meat suits. So what do we do about that? Well, one thing is you could say, "I'm just going to teach you how to just grit your teeth and build a habit and force yourself to do it and read some books about grit and fetishize waking up at four in the morning and sweating on yourself." You can do that and it works. It's just very expensive. What I'm arguing is that for everyone who's not going to do that and kind of replaces that by looking at Instagram videos of people doing that, who probably aren't actually doing it, but they recorded it all one morning and now they're reading French fries. Well, maybe if you just use the techniques in here and did something for 10 or 15 minutes a day that saved you 45 minutes a day and you were motivated by saving 45 minutes, you'll probably be a lot more likely to do it. And I know that if you give me an hour at an upgrade labs even once a week, I can fix your cardiovascular, I can give you enough muscle mass that you won't deal with the problems of not having enough muscle as you age, enough to have a working metabolism. We can work on your brain and make it work better with neurofeedback. And we can work on your cellular metabolism so you become better at turning food into electricity instead of fat. And we can also train your stress response so that your body doesn't go into that cell danger response, into that terror mode, into the anxiety thing where you're like, "I don't know what's wrong, something's wrong. I don't know what it is. It's probably my spouse. It's probably this, all that anxiety that we have." That's also trainable. You can do all of that in an hour or you could go to a spin class and have someone yell at you when you sweat in the pandemic. I just think our time is more valuable than that. All right. Proprioception. Is that the word for what you were just describing about the meat suit saying, "I either am or am not in danger?" No. Proprioception is a sense of your body knowing where it is in the world and your mind knowing where your body is. So it's proprioception that allows you to catch a ball and don't throw it at you. And if you didn't know what your hand was in the world and really if your hands didn't know where it was in the world, it has its own distributed intelligence, then you'd miss the ball or smack you in the face. It's what allows us to know our body's upright and things like that. It's also something though that measures the amount of stress on a joint and decides how much your muscles are allowed to do to keep you from being injured. One of the hacks since Moderna Harder, actually about four or five of them involves hacking your proprioceptors. So your proprioceptors are measuring what's happening. I'm just going to do the example of a curl here. All right. So if I'm holding a dumbbell, I need somebody to hold here. I need your coffee. All right. So now I'm going to do a curl and there's a lot of minerals in here so it's heavy. But what I'm doing with this weight in my hand is the weight is accelerating at gravity speed, which is 9.8 meters per second squared. This means that when I throw it up, when I catch it, it actually physically weighs more. And when I wobble like this, it weighs more from the wobble. My smart wrist, my hand, my elbow, my shoulder, they all know that I'm wobbling and they know that this weight may weigh more than it actually weighs. So they know hold back because if you wobble, then it's going to weigh more. So you can't possibly do all of the force necessary here because you could injure. If instead you have an artificial intelligence driven machine that's putting weight on the arm that has no gravity at all, all of a sudden then I can actually use all of the muscles in my bicep to do the exercise. And I'm going to fight really, really hard and it's going to feel insane. But I'm going to be able to put more foot pounce of pressure because my proprioceptors didn't worry about gravity. So I'm talking about how to remove gravity from resistance systems, either with tech or just with resistance bands even. So this is also a slope of the core biology. How do I show the muscle that it's capable of doing something that it thinks is dangerous? And once you do that, it's like, oh, I guess I could do that and then it adapts really rapidly. And what we use at Upgrade Labs is, well, we have a big machine that's driven by AI that does it, but at home, there are some things that work better than others. So for very basic weight lifting stuff, you don't even buy elastic bands, just knowing that lowering a weight slowly is important versus flopping weights up and down. You get more return on investment from a slow eccentric movement. It's just how it works. So I talk about the things that they just work better than lifting rocks and running away from tigers in the book. Yeah. So it's the idea of the body being willing to, not even necessarily willing, what I was going to say is being willing to adapt because it's getting the impulse, but it's really the difference between what we talked about earlier. If you give it a sustained impulse that stresses it out, you have to deal with all of that. If you give it a, from a weightlifting perspective, an additional variable of gravity where it has to hold something back, you're not able to give it the peak. This is easier because I've seen the graphs in the book where you talk about how by removing the, the read on gravity or the bodies need to account for the potential increase in weight based on wobbling or momentum or whatever, that you can actually push that spike higher, but bring it down a lot faster.

Brain Training And Spirituality Practices

How is the brain still magic? (01:12:45)

It's very interesting. So is this only possible with AI and finally tuned equipment or are there things that we can do at home that are going to allow people that same rapid onset of adaptation? Everything in the book has an at home version that you can do. What we're doing is we're using AI to discover new principles, like that narrow band of exercise that causes you to burn fat and you can't go above or below, or the idea that you can have a certain slope of resistance curve that's driven by AI, you have to go to an upgrade labs for that and own and upgrade I'm seriously rolling this out across the country. People have signed up for dozens of them. But in the meantime, every one of the chapters, the part on the brain, the part on like spirituality and meditation, the part on cardiovascular, the part on muscle, the part on stress resilience, for each of those, I talk about techniques that work better than what we've always done and many of them are free and some of them are low cost and then some of them are the examples of the highest level tech that demonstrate that it's possible. The fact that you can get six times more improvement in VO2 max in six weeks is unheard of.

At-home brain training (01:14:15)

It's just shocking and there's several university studies backing that up. So given that it's possible, maybe you can do better at home even if you don't have all the equipment just because we know it can be done. And I'm still resentful of my 702 hours of eating lettuce and going to the gym all the time and not losing weight because I didn't know all this stuff. But in everything that went into writing Smarter Not Harder, what was the biggest game changer for you in real life where you liked, well, this one has just a disproportionate effect on your life or cuts back the time, whether it's sleep, diet, exercise.

The BIGGEST game changer (01:14:44)

It was actually the laziness principle. So I've just finally identified that I'm lazy. And you and I have both built $100 billion companies. I have eight companies right now. And they're right under your time so I sell every couple of years. But I'm profoundly lazy. And I used to kind of feel guilty about that. And when I just realized it's in my meat, it's a part of human progress. And you could even argue that I did all those things because I was looking to avoid doing something else. But did that just let you let yourself off the hook and not beat yourself up for being lazy or did it actually inform? I actually love being lazy. I freely meant, no, I don't want to do it. I don't want to do more work than is necessary to get that done. I want someone else to do that. And it makes me a more effective person. And it makes all of us more effective to identify the stuff that takes our energy and stuff we don't like to do and to remove it from our lives however we can. And I'll be straightforward. I like going for hikes, but I don't really like going to the gym compared to playing with my kids. Right? I will do it if it's necessary. I just don't want to. And instead of feeling like I'm a bad person for that, recognizing that, okay, I don't want to. So how do I get the results?

The Spirituality Hack (01:16:02)

And just being at peace with that and then motivating myself with savings and being excited about not about the money I saved or the time I saved instead of the time I spent, it makes it a lot easier to stick with things. So just saying, I'm going to do something hard because I'm a good person. I'm going to grip my teeth and do all that. Yeah, clearly I've done that. I just don't have to anymore. In the book, you go into spiritual hacks. Yeah. Talk to me about that. You also, you're careful to delineate different kinds of spirituality. So it isn't just the meditation, monks, Himalayas, all of that. So what is spirituality for you? How do we hack it and why does it matter? Well, so the definition of spirituality is kind of like the Supreme Court definition of pornography. I can't define it, but I know what it is when I see it. Right? And can you say that a specific state of bliss that someone experiences is a spiritual experience or a blissful experience? The answer is, I don't ask them. They'll tell you. Right? And that's okay because the way we perceive reality is actually valid. And we also know that different people have different lenses on reality. We have different filters that we either teach ourselves or that society teaches us. And at a minimum with spirituality, there's a sense of inner peace, a sense of happiness, a sense of equanimity, which I talk a lot about in the book. In Buddhism, there's three levels that we talk about. There's the lowest level of spiritual growth, which is having empathy for other people. Some people just have no empathy, right? And you start waking up, right? So I can feel other people's pain. But there isn't that particular enlightened because having to feel other people's pain, even when there's nothing you can do about it and you don't really want to, isn't always a good thing. So you go from there to compassion, which is wishing well for others, even if you don't take on the pain of having empathy with them, you can have empathy, but you don't have to when you have a state of compassion. So you can, it's a feeling. It's an actual thing then.

Equanimity (01:18:06)

You can measure compassion with neuroscience. And that's what one my company does. But the state above that is called equanimity. And this is where you can choose your state and maintain your state no matter what is happening in the world around you. So even if you have empathy and you have compassion, if you have equanimity, you can be the monk who meditates in the middle of a hurricane and nothing can take you from your chosen state. And that is a pretty powerful side of spirituality. And it's actually profoundly dangerous. That's why it's named "Danger Copies." Like who knows what you might do. When you are unprogrammable, when you will always do the right thing and no one can sway you from your chosen state, you are an enormously powerful person who's capable of great deeds of kindness and peace. What does it take to get there? I believe that the fastest path for that is starting at your cellular biology and working away up. It's very hard to teach yourself to have that state when your body can't make enough energy. When you're getting this signal from your meat operating system that's like something is wrong, something's profoundly wrong. I don't know what it is. And what it is is you're swimming in toxins that are inhibiting your body's ability to do it. So when the body feels like it's nourished and safe, it's just easier to do the hard work. And then you start looking at things that are mostly, I'm going to call it in our emotional body. It's where you work on your emotional stuff, trauma resolution and things like that. And why do you call it emotional body?

Transpersonal Psychology (01:19:32)

It's a word from Transpersonal Psychology. I don't know what that is. That's a field that was started in 1956 by a guy named Stan Groff. Stan was a Freudian licensed psychologist in Czechoslovakia, which is what it was called back then, not the Czech Republic. And he used LSD, which he purchased from Sando's Pharmaceuticals with a license to treat 3,000 patients. And had profound effects. And he's like, "This Freudian stuff doesn't work very well, but this other stuff does." And I had the great honor of interviewing Stan on my show and hosting an event with him when he was 94 years old. Well, he's the inventor of holotropic breathing, which you may have talked about on the show before. So, Stan ended up creating the field of Transpersonal Psychology, which is where a lot of the trauma resolution stuff that you hear about. You'll hear Gabby Bernstein, who's become a friend, talk about IFS internal family systems therapy. You'll see a lot of the trauma resolution stuff came out of Stan Groff's observations of what happens to people just early on in their life and now from a problem. But does this intersect with a meat suit? Are you saying that trauma is stored in the body? Okay, stored. Define that, please. Well, you can ask most women what happens if they get a really deep hip massage. In the vast majority, like 80% of women, they don't know why they just start crying. Like strong emotions come out because women store emotions in their hips. Women store emotions. So tell me what an emotion is at a biological level. So you were just saying you can measure compassion, so I imagine it's brain waves. Like there's a signal that we can pick up on from the body. So what is the signal of an emotion? We push on that part of the body and a strong feeling happens. A really strong feeling. There's serotonin stored in the gut. Is there a neurochemical stored in the hips?

Understanding Brain Injuries And Theories

Our Electrical Fields (01:21:27)

So now you're making an assumption that we're chemical based systems when we're not. We're about to go off the rails. I love it. Take me there, but this sounds crazy. So what if we were not chemical based? We're not exclusively chemical based. Okay, that's very different. So we are simultaneously chemical and electrical, and I could go get my electrical stimulation thing. I'm sure you are. I'm with that. So our chemical were electrical. We're also provably with hard science quantum. Okay. I knew that you'd love this one. So is there more? So we have chemical electrical quantum. We also have magnetic and light signaling inside the body. All of these we can prove the existence of with physics measurements. Is that it? Chemical electrical quantum magnetic and light. Yeah, that's all that I know of. Okay, fair. There may be some vibrational, like a physical vibrational thing in there as well, but hell, I don't know. Okay, so we'll end the possible end of very wise sound vibration, but I'll do something. Let's zoom in on quantum when you were saying that we're not just chemical. Is that the one that you were aimed at? Yep. Well, actually, no, I was aimed at electrical because, I mean, if I touch the hip and I get an electrical signal, it's a lot faster than a neurochemical system. Yep. I'm, stored is the word that I'm going to be zooming in on. That's the part where I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Hey, I love expanding my mind and realizing new things are the thing I'm always optimizing for us. My brain is a prediction engine. I want to make its predictions better and better. But storing emotion in the body, I cannot yet meet with anecdotal evidence. Okay. Of my own. Give me your gut instinct. So maybe this isn't the area you feel completely comfortable.

Information field theory (01:23:13)

So what we say is stored is that there's information sensing proprioceptive pattern here. And when something bad happens. Information sensing? Information field. So yeah, information sensing everything in the environment is information. Okay. The proprioceptors pick up information. Is information field something I should have you define? Because I don't know what that is. Oh, yeah. Probably the most accurate reflection of how the universe works is information field theory. Okay. Which is that everyone is actually just a field of information. Everything is a field of information that all intersect. It's extremely quantum physics, but it's like hard math, quantum physics stuff. So information field theory, I'm just going to say even if we get out of the hard physics side of that, we just say that there are parts of your body that have their own ability to sense being injured. Right? People got injured so now it hurts whenever you try to do something that's going to cause the injury again. You can treat that with electrical stimulation. I write the stories in the book of like what I did with Stephen Collar. So you put electrodes on to force the body to do it anyway, because there's electricity making the body do it, it thinks it can't do. And as soon as the body does it and it doesn't get injured, it's like, oh, and then it doesn't hurt anymore. And the pain just goes away. Well, there was actually a little decision made in your elbow about that where it thought it couldn't, so it sent you pain to make sure you didn't. What other parts of your meat operating system are making sure you don't. It turns out there's a lot of them in there. And one of the things that happens is when... Why would that be in the hip though? You know why it's in the hips and... Why isn't it in the brain? Like the heart. You still think that you're your brain. And I would just argue like what would happen if your entire body was a prediction machine, not just your brain? Because there is clearly a distributed intelligence throughout your body. Yes. So... Oh, sure. So let's dive into that.

Phineas Gage (01:25:03)

So Phineas Gage, I'm sure you know the story. Working on the railroad, for those that don't know, a like five foot, three inch diameter tamping rod shoots up through his under his chin, out through the top of his head. I don't think it was three inch diameter. This thing was fucking... It was big. It was radius, radius, excuse me. And no, it would be diameter. So diameter not radius. I was thinking of radius as like dude, that's big. No, no, no. It is big. It goes around the road. It goes back. Yeah. It goes not small. Big. When I said... Because eight, I mean he went on tour with this fucking thing. It's big. However big most people are thinking it is bigger than that. It is crazy. Never loses consciousness but he loses a teacups worth of brain. I just can't even fathom. Anyway, it changes his life forever. And he's never the same, people say it fundamentally changed his personality. It's just a total shit show. So if you damage somebody's brain, what we think of as them, while maybe only ultimately a small part of what the universe thinks of as them because there's all the intelligence in their fingertip and all that, I totally acquiesced to that. I have no problem with that whatsoever. But when I think of me, I think of the way that I process data. I think of the voice in my head, all of that. I think of my ability to control emotions, all of it. If you damage my brain, that is going to radically alter. Now to your point, if you wildly disrupt my microbiome, it could wildly affect my moods. And so I would feel like a different version of myself. So I am totally in that camp. But when you damage the physical structures of the brain certainly, there is a profound change in you, which I'm putting in air quotes. Any disagreement so far? There's a profound change of your behavior. And if you identify yourself as your behavior, then what you say is true.

Severed hemispheres (01:27:06)

Depends on how far you're going to push behavior. So if the way that I think through a problem is behavior, sure. If my ability to process, what I call processing data, like I can't do math in my head, but some people can. And they don't even understand someone like me for whom numbers just don't appear. Like I don't. I don't understand people that are like, "Oh, the answer is just a bit." What do you mean? That is so surreal to me. So anyway, I could go from either not being able to do it or something happens and now I can because so much of our talent is something that was being tamped down, stops being tamped down. So again, here's another example that would I call it behavior? I don't know that I would, but maybe it falls in behavior. The brain, two hemispheres connected by something called the corpus callosum. I know you know, but for people at home that don't. If you sever that, the person will now have two distinct personalities. One of them can be a devout atheist and the other is a believer. And they'll sit there and argue. And if you cover one eye, you'll get, obviously it's cross. So if you cover the right eye, you're talking to the left hemisphere. If you cover the left eye, you're talking to the right hemisphere, you will get different answers from different sides of the brain. You can hide things from one half of the brain. It's bananas. My mom's corpus callosum was severed. Really? What? What happened? It was for epilepsy. It's a treatment. It's a barbaric old treatment for epilepsy. Indeed, it is. So you know this first-handers down. Would you call that behavior? Certainly, it affects behavior. It does 100%.

Traumatic brain injuries (01:28:42)

So brain injuries are, I'm, let's, a easy one is traumatic brain injuries. I mean, I took a titanium knee to the head at Burning Man a while ago and I mean, I, I sent him first- Titanium knee to the head? Yeah, Thunderdome, you know, the, I don't like Mad Max Thunderdome, they have one of those at Burning Man. Okay. So I was with a friend and we were trying to hit each other with big Q-tips. And her titanium knee clocked me right in the head when we were like flying through the air and I was like seriously atolled for probably a couple months. Well, to the point, I remember I got really mad at Tim Ferriss for something he didn't do in cinnamon, angry email. And I apologize later. I was like sorry to. But it, it, I mean, I was swearing all the time. I couldn't play Go Fish with my kids. Right. So my perception of myself changed, but did I really change? I don't know. I did some neurofeedback. I would say yes. 100% that anyone's certain terms. Interesting. As a result of the physical structures of your brain. Just getting rocked. Yeah. But then why did I change back when I did hyperbaric and I did all the other neurofeedback stuff? I did over simplify it because you healed. And so the way that your brain was processed, why didn't you change into something else completely? Well, I, I've been editing myself my entire life with as much consciousness as I know how. That's what the whole upgrading yourself part of biohacking is. I'm conscious. I'm free to change myself. Do you feel that you're limited by the physicality of your brain? Not yet. Not at all. This is so interesting. Okay. Wow. So I have a whole company that does brain upgrades on people. Like software upgrades for the brain. And neither of us disagree with that. But it's like you can totally change what you're doing. But I'm saying that you're, what you're changing is a physical structure of the brain. You're saying maybe it's not that. You can change software without changing physical structure. Agreed. So, okay. We're miscommunicating because I agree with that. But I believe that the behaviors are born of the physicality and that if you were to talk to a worm, it would be perceiving and processing the world in a way that would be so alien to a human that we just wouldn't be able to. You're like a forenologist. That is an interesting way to interpret this. Okay. The forenologists were people listening. Oh yeah. There were people who believed that you could tell what someone's brain was doing by where the bumps on their head were because like this part of the head would do this. But you have this so mapped out physically. But all the data that I have from brain scans, I have the largest database of high performance, high resolution scans in the world right now for 40 years of Zen. And it's actually network behavior within the brain. It's not at all the physical structure. And the network behavior of the brain is not correlated to the physicality of the brain. If parts of the brain aren't there, it's not going to work. But a part of the brain can be there. Don't rush past that. If that's true, it feels like we're in agreement. So this table, I would pause it because I'm a physicalist. I don't even know what to call it. I don't believe, I don't believe that this table could ever possibly contemplate the universe in the way that you and I do. I think that there would be a lot of similarities between you and I. Yeah. There are differences. I don't think the table's thinking. Because of the structure of our brains that the table won't have because it doesn't have that same structure. Do we agree on that? I believe. Well, I don't know that it's because of the table doesn't have the same structure. Interesting. What is it? It may be entirely possible. I don't know. But it may be entirely possible that if we took a group of monks and this is going to piss you off, that's kind of what I'm saying. No, I love it. I just want to... Take a group of monks and divine goddesses and we sit around the table and we love the table for six months straight and just infuse it with the best possible energy. Yep. I'm not unconscious. I kind of don't think so, but I'm not going to claim to be an expert in that. Interesting. Okay. So, do you have a thought around what it's anchored to? So for me, and I get this is a very high level. It's a very sort of right. What's anchored to? What are consciousness? It probably will ultimately boil down to that. So let's just start there. I think your consciousness is anchored to all of your body, not just your brain. We agree on that. Okay. So that's why if you are one of those people thinks that you can bring yourself back to life by freezing your body, don't freeze just your head, freeze your whole body, you're going to need that. That's a really important point. Yeah. Well, so here's an interesting thing. I think if you did that, you could bring back a lot of what you think of as you, but all of a sudden, wouldn't feel right. There'd be problems, but that the 90% of who you think of as you would still be there is my gut instinct, the irony that I would say gut instinct. People saying that is not lost on me. I'm glad you got that. But yeah, I have a feeling that the vast majority of who we think of as ourselves is that, but I agree with you so violently. On your list here, we haven't talked about quantum biology yet. We haven't, I still haven't. This is why I don't freeze my body. I have some friends who I know and respect who choose it like Joe Polish is a good friend who's, yeah, I'm all in, might as well. It's a backup plan. Ray Kurzweil, same thing. We know now because of a very recent study, we only just figured out how to look at it at proton spin and living systems. And what they found is that all of the protons in your brain change their spin exactly in conjunction with your heartbeat. And if proton spin is changing in a coherent manner throughout your system based on your heartbeat, your quantum system. If the protons were not changing their spin all in unison, they would not be quantum cohered with each other. So this is something that I think I hit it up on my Instagram page, but it's something that most people just, it's like an advanced physics paper. But literally if your heartbeat is controlling proton spin throughout your entire system, your quantum, and that's how it works. So there are quantum effects that we actually just don't know much about that allow a lot of the realm of the truly advanced spiritual practice that's been written about all over the planet for thousands of years, all this weird stuff that I kind of don't like seems to be happening repeatedly. Can you give me an example? Oh, the ability to read someone else's mind. Like, why do we keep talking about that? If it isn't possible, and why do I know people who can do scarily good stuff at that stuff? Well, probably it's some kind of quantum thing. I don't know the mechanism of action. This is where I think you and I start to disagree. So when I don't understand, I just stop it.

Don't understand equals magic to most people (01:35:14)

I don't understand. But I get uneasy when people are like, that I don't understand is a fill in for all the magical claims that people make are probably really real and we just don't understand them yet. You and I talked about this last time otherwise I'd go into it. The whole spoon bending, ban a check thing. It's interesting. But let's stick with quantum for a second. So that I think you have some, I think you have your finger on something that either I'm just so ignorant that I think it's self-evidently, it's just obvious or I'm bang on. So here's how I look at that. If it is true that the world is, the universe is quantum, which I don't know enough to challenge that.

Exploring Quantum World And Superpowers

We All Live in a Quantum World (01:36:05)

We assume that quantum, we don't understand how it functions yet, or at least how the macro and the quantum connect. But we know that the quantum mechanics is there and it helps us do things like GPS. So okay, cool. So I certainly believe that we live in a quantum world. So if that is true, then it seems self-evident to me that of course every system, whether it's a planet or biology is a quantum system. And this table is a quantum system too. 100%. Which is why I'm not sure if it can think, but I don't think it can. So, but that, and I think that's where I, our frames of reference are so different, I don't, that felt like a non-sequitur. So to me, quantum systems and consciousness are in no way, shape, or form related. Like they're just, in as much as if I say that my consciousness is entitled to blood flow. Of course, without the blood flow, I cannot have consciousness. So without the quantum, everything I'm sure just falls apart or whatever, thing that I can't understand or predict. But it isn't the same as, oh, well, if this all exists at the quantum state, then the physicality doesn't matter. So I, I'm going to start making predictions. Okay. You tell me if these predictions are accurate. I'm going to predict your, your belief system. Okay. That's interesting. If I'm supposed to break down, then I'll at least understand why that felt like a non-sequitur to me. Okay. So quantum entanglement seems to be the part that non-physical lists I'm making that word up grab onto and say, okay, information theory, quantum says that you can have, yeah, well, no, no, no, this is my understanding of why people are interested in information theory and how it relates to quantum mechanics is the following. That you can have two particles, I forget, which ones separated by the entire universe. And if they are quantum entangled, they will instantaneously communicate to each other and communicate. They won't. Now, there's some people to say even information cannot travel faster than the speed of light. They're not actually communicating. They're simultaneously changing, which is a form of communication, but there isn't a signal going between them that we know about. Yes, I'm rounding that to communicate. I don't know what word you would slide in there. They're just always in the same state without communication. I'm going to push back on that. I just want to acknowledge for everybody in the comments that understands this better than us, but I find this really interesting, so I'm going to keep going. So the tests that they've done show that until, so they're quantumly entangled, you shoot them in opposite directions.

How We Could Read Minds and Heaven (01:38:58)

They are now the universe with the cross. When you look at the first one, you create its state. So it was in a quantum superposition until it was measured. Therefore, it's not like, oh, I just have like, let's say it's red, I forget, up and down, I think, or left and right, whatever, up and down, let's say. So I look at this one. It isn't just that you're now recognizing that it is up and that the other one is down. You can actually do something that makes this one up and thusly then instantly, my word communicates that that one is down across the entire universe. Okay, we are now at the edge of even what I can recite. Sounds like quantum entanglement to me. Cool. There may be a physics major who tells us that we miss some important point, but I don't think so. We're close. So my prediction is because of that is why you're saying that the way our brains work or the way that we view ourselves consciousness can't be physical or at least can't be purely physical. Is that an accurate assumption? It's not because of that. Okay. So what leads you to the statement that we're not the physicality of our brains or at least not just? Well, there's the physicality of your brain, but there's also the signaling of brain. If you're the physicality of your brain, then if you don't breathe for three minutes, why do you stop being you? Why do I stop being you? Yeah, in other words, if your brain physical structures are there, but there's an electricity flowing in them, you're not there. So the model that I find works best is that parts of your consciousness are non-local and that you have amazing antenna systems throughout your body. They're called DNA and they're called mitochondria and they actually do act and some of them even structured to look like antennas. And so I think that there is a part of you that is non-local and there are computer scientists who would absolutely be non-local, meaning I could blast the mitochondria off into space and I would maintain my current, I would be exactly the same. What we get into here becomes the realm of philosophical and spiritual stuff, but the definition of what is you. Then you have to start talking about how do some of these people talk about all of the spiritual things, the yogic cities that we talked about last time.

Humans with super powers (01:41:15)

How is some of the cities? S-I-D-H-I. These are defined superpowers that have been documented in rare humans throughout recorded history. Like being able to read somebody's mind. Sure. Right? I'm going to need to see that documentation. Oh, sure. Let's just Google it. The view of the Ritz a good book is like a good translation of yogic cities. He's a shaman who's a good friend. He even wrote a book with Dr. Perlmutter who's a brain scientist who's also a good friend. What level of mind reading do you think is capable? Depending on the person who has the skills, I've met some people with profoundly strong abilities and we know the military has been working on the stuff since at least the 60s. It doesn't mean that it's going to work. No. I know some people who can pick up stuff. Proves what you're saying or contradicts it. But I have a feeling that once we're able to get a fine enough level of detail from the brain, whether that is a neurolink or whatever, that we will be able to, they can already do rudimentary thoughts to pictures or brainwaves to pictures. Although Colonel's way ahead. Brian's company and KER Anyom is a guy who was a founder of Braintreat. Yeah, I had him on the show. Oh, you had him on the show? Cool. I haven't had one on my show yet, though. He's a smart guy. But he's put $89 with his own money into a really good brain scanner. He's, I think, way further ahead than what he's trying to do. He's trying to get a sense of every single signal happening in the brain simultaneously. And so, is it that you think there are some people that can pick up on those signals that there is some sort of, because I can get how in some way our brain, our ecosystem, the human ecosystem, not to over-localize it to the brain? I can get how some of that is using quantum entanglement to communicate between cells, maybe, I don't know. But I don't get how or why two different people would be momentarily, quantumly entangled. Maybe, because your power of observation looked at their quantum bits, I'm totally making this shit up, but it's just a supposition. Look at their quantum bits, and then maybe you can just entangle with another quantum thing that will. It's happening with the whole realm of the quantum biology stuff. And this is like hardcore quantum. Like, we can make quantum computers. This isn't like the quantum woo field. There's an entire system that's controlling some of our biology. It's controlling some of life and some of the world around us that we know almost nothing about. What's doing it? The quantum, the realm of the quantum. Quantum biology, quantum effects are controlling reality in a way that we barely understand. So if you're looking to do biohacking and you're saying, "Well, we know we have this black box. I know that if I do these things, I get this response way more than statistics would predict." And we don't know why it's happening. That's where science is. The cutting edge of science always is, "Wow, that shouldn't happen based on what I believed. I'm going to have to dig deeper on that." And the realm with the most fertile territory for exploration around consciousness right now, around spirituality, is actually quantum science. And the earlier realm, and the realm I'm spending most of my time on that, is actually looking at the electrical and magnetic and do certain sense blood flow of what's happening on the brain so that we can tune the brain so that it works better. But we don't tune it by adjusting physical structures. We tune it by adjusting connectivity between physical structures so that we're saying, "This part of the brain, the broadness area or something needs to talk to this part of the brain, but this brain isn't speaking the right language or the volume isn't loud enough at this certain frequency. So let's show the brain what it's like to do that." And the brain goes, "Oh." And it adjusts its electrical behavior without adjusting its physical behavior. And is that going to have profound effects on how you feel, how you treat other people? And why don't you think that's physical? Why do you use, why is electrical flow non-physical? Well, this show is going out to people over a combination of fiber optics and probably some copper signaling and some wireless. Now we don't have to change the copper to change what we say, right? So the different sounds, same physical infrastructure. Wouldn't your brain do the same thing? I just, I suppose it's a definitional adjustment I have to make to make sure that I'm tracking what you're saying. Okay. So the physical hardware of the brain can carry different thoughts without changing its hardware each time and then you thought. So why don't we teach the electrical stuff to send signals in a different order that change your emotional state or your spiritual state? And whoa, okay. I was with you until you said spiritual state. So define, you have an aversion to spiritual state. No, no, no, I want to understand it. So I understand obviously thoughts, but when you say a spiritual state, what does that mean? Earlier you called spirituality a feeling. Yeah, there are feelings, right? So right now. Is it the same to say emotional state and spiritual state? Usually not because some emotions are spiritual emotions and some of them are not. Interesting. Tell me which is which. So a feeling of oneness and connectedness and the pure love of God, which if you've never experienced that would probably sound like a bunch of bullshit, but people who experience are like, I don't know what that was, but that was something different and it was new and they're trying to, it's like if you were colorblind and someone's trying to say, you know, that's blue. And you're like, it is not blue.

The feeling of transcendence (01:46:50)

It's the same color as that. And you could argue to the ends of the earth because they have a different sense. And emotion that's transcendental. It's probably, yeah, transcendental is a good name. These are things that people can train their brains to pick up. And this goes down to the idea that we all have filters on reality. And when you start undertaking spiritual training, you start realizing that there's more that your body can pick up and your mind can pick up in the world around you, including some amazing spiritual states. So do you think it's that we're, so is a spiritual state a tuning into a broadcast? Yes, it's tuning into a field.

Love (01:47:29)

Interesting. And one of the lower level, but beautiful spiritual states is love. And you say, well, love doesn't exist. Have you proved love exists? And then we could talk about quantum entanglements of hearts or something. Well, so now let me ask then. So love feels very localized to me. But if what you're saying is accurate and spiritual feelings are trends and dental feelings, and it's tuning into a broadcast, are you saying that love is being broadcast? I am broadcasting a love right now from right here. And I'm doing it because I've trained myself how to do that. What's unrequited love? That's a very interesting and odd question. So this is when you want me to tell you why I'm asking that. Yeah, it's yeah, I love some context because when we quite love is just love where you send love and you don't get love back. The reason that I'm asking that is as you were saying that, I thought, okay, my wife and I love each other. It's a really awesome feeling. It sustained over time. It's a back and forth. And then I thought, okay, if she's picking up what I'm broadcasting and I'm picking up what she's broadcasting and that is love, then are you the there is a really strong and horrible feeling when you like something that doesn't like you back? There doesn't have to be. That's just trauma. Interesting. So, well, first before we go off on another tangent on that, so if spiritual states are receiving the broadcast, is there just messiness to it's both receiving it and the way that you feel about what you're receiving or lack thereof? Yeah. Okay. So every time you experience a physical or an emotional trauma, your body, your meat operating system automatically puts a filter in place so you don't do that again. You don't feel that again. You're not vulnerable to that again. You won't surrender to that again. You won't experience it again. So over time, you get more and more and more hide-bound and crusty and angry and bitter and mean and unkind because you're no longer receiving the broadcast. You're no longer receiving the broadcast. You're no longer feeling it. And then when you start doing trauma work, you start doing emotional work. You start realizing, well, a lot of these emotions don't make sense because if I love something, why do I have to feel pain if it doesn't want me back? Why is my body doing that to me? And then you do the inquiry work and you do the emotional work on that stuff. And eventually you're like, wow, I can turn on this love thing and I can do it at will and I can do it. Are you turning on the love thing and you're receiving the broadcast? You can do both. You can broadcast and receive. And I want to better understand, if I'm broadcasting, this is interesting. I'm going to ask a question that a spiritual person like yourself is probably going to hate, but is, no, no, no, not like that, just that you'll think I'm approaching it from the wrong direction. So broadcasting love and receiving love, I, as I try to adopt your framework, don't feel like they will be experienced in the same way. There's separate skills actually. You can broadcast love without being able to receive love and vice versa. Interesting. And so from a well-being standpoint, let's say that I'm really good at broadcast. So broadcasting, but I'm not really good at receiving or vice versa. Which of those two curses would be the better? So my own path, I wasn't good at either one. Then I learned how to broadcast love via a combination of spiritual practice and oral feedback, all the different experiences. But then I had to do additional work on being able to receive love because a lot of people learn that it's not safe to receive love early in life, where you're actually desperate for love when you're a small baby or when you're really little and then something bad happens. Something maybe that wasn't even anyone's on purpose thing. And then some party realized as well, I wondered I felt like I was going to die if I didn't get it, I didn't get it, therefore I'm going to close myself off to it. So yeah, receiving love, receiving gratitude, those are different skills than feeling them. And they're trainable skills. And they're trainable skills with electrodes. And that's why I wrote a quarter of "Smarter and Harder" is about the things that let you access spiritual states more quickly than sitting in a cave in meditating, which is how we used to do it. So what does let you receive it?

HRV Training (01:51:49)

Well, one of the easier things to do is breath work in conjunction with meditation. It just works faster to put you in certain states. And those certain states, yes, you can measure those states with electrodes. So they're real states. One of the easiest ways to start working on that is heart rate variability training. You ever tried that? I have only ever tried to adjust my HRV through exercise. Okay. So you can do exercise and sleep and diet to do your whole night HRV. In 2008, I joined the advisory board of a company called HeartMath. And they were the first company to realize you could train this as a feedback signal. So you put a little clip on your ear and you had a little, now it's an app on your phone. And then you breathe in and you make the light turn green. But to make the light turn green, it doesn't just turn green when you breathe in. You start doing something and there's no word for it. And what you're doing is you're changing the spacing between your heartbeats to make it more complex, but also more rhythmic. So instead of having an even heartbeat, it doesn't match between each one. So I don't know how to tell you to do that except, well, breathe and just make the light turn green. And as you learn to do this, stuff starts to change. And the way you feel, the way you connect to the world changes and what you're actually doing is you're editing the amount of parasympathetic rest and reset versus parasympathetic versus sympathetic or fight or flight. So this is something that I talked about that's far enough harder. It's one of the many different technologies that allows you to have more control of your nervous system so you can better sense reality and so you can better choose your state. Because if you don't do that, you're not going to feel that sense of heart opening, which is probably, in fact, not just probably, but is mathematically related to what the Buddhist would call loving kindness. So okay, I can change the spacing between my heartbeats at will. And if I find my body going into sympathetic, fight or flight, I can say stop it and then I can turn it back. And I took, let's see, this is one of my favorite stories. I was working with the Silicon Valley hardware software engineer, hardcore rationalists, probably a little bit asperger like I used to be. And I got him to do this training. And he, after about eight weeks, he said, Dave, I got it to the hardest setting. I learned how to do it. And I did it for an hour. I know you told me just to do 20 minutes. I did an hour and I think I experienced bliss. And I started laughing because in my entire career in Silicon Valley, I've never heard an engineer use the word bliss before. And that's not what engineers do. And he did that just by altering his heart rate variability? Yeah. But he was consciously altering it, not just trying to eat a food that made his body more resilient because total heart rate variability is a measure of resilience. But your ability to go from, my heart is not highly variable and then do that thing, the thing that I can't tell you the words for, but let's turn the light green and I'm doing it right now. And it changes the variability part rate. You can also change the amplitude, the strength of your heart rate. Some people are stronger broadcasters than others. And when I go on stage and Tony Robbins or somewhere and there's an audience of 10,000 people, do I before I go on stage intentionally adjust my heart rate variability so that it is high and turn out my amplitude as much as I'm capable of so that I can feel the audience and they can feel me? Yeah.

Brain Variability And Healing Techniques

Math Behind Variability (01:55:15)

Is there math that says this is real? So yes, there is. There is a magnetic field around your heart. It's tipped at eight degrees to the left. It's shaped like a big donut of torus and we know which direction the fields on it move because we can measure it with sensitive physics detectors. We also know that magnetic fields continue infinitely into the universe and we know that systems will pick up each other's magnetic fields, no quantum required. When you have high heart rate variability and you walk into a stall with a horse, the horse will match its heart rate variability to you. And if you're tweaking and you walk into the stall, the horse won't let you ride it because it picks up your heart. This is why they use horses as therapy animals because they're biofeedback machines for heart rate variability. So is what I'm doing? You're some sort of weird manipulative tech wizardry? No. You can do heart rate variability just by learning basic meditation. I just found a faster way because I'm a nerd. I think it was in the book and then you've said it here today, you used to have asperger's used to.

Aspergers (01:56:17)

How did you stop? Well, first you address cellulotoxins and things that are causing neuroimformations. Your nervous system is un-inflamed. Then you retrain the nervous system to do what it never learned to do when you were young. In my case, it involved learning social skills. It involved retraining my auditory processing systems. It involved retraining my vision systems. And I'd say I'm 70% of the way they're on training my proprioceptors because when you have asperger's syndrome, you're getting so much environmental input that is not filtered properly by your nervous system that it's very hard to pick up on what's important and what's not important. So you become stupidly good at pattern matching and recognizing systems because you're dealing with an enormous volume of data and most of it's just static in your system. So when you remove the things that are causing the static and then you do the work of becoming aware of all the signals you never learned to do before, then at some point say, "Well, this person no longer meets the criteria for asperger's syndrome." I used to live everything was from the neck up because I'm a rational being. I'm a meat robot and I just realized that's actually not how the system seems to work. I am simultaneously rational as in I have a green information systems and AI and an MBA and I do truth tables and irrational and that I have feelings and I can simultaneously hold both states. We're all like that. It's actually scary to consider the fact that you have an irrational being in the same meat suit as your rational side. I just got comfortable with that and decided to tame it. Is there a process that people can, I can only imagine how many people, especially now as the rates of people being on the spectrum or skyrocketing that would love to know if there's a system that they can use to do that? The most that I've written about that is in my book called Head Strong.

Fixing the Brain (01:58:09)

This is a book about how to fix your brain and how to make your brain work better than it did before. If you were to do the recommendations in that book and you were to do some additional neural training that I probably touched on in there, you could get a lot of results there. The stuff I just mentioned here, I'll just tell you the resources for it. Vision training is something you can do with a variety of things but look for a developmental ophthalmologist and these are people who study how the eyes and the brain work together with proprioceptors in the body. I spent six months doing really difficult vision training exercises, learning how to move my body again. You can look for somatic therapy to learn how to get the systems in the body wired into the brain. I still do that today. Then you could look at auditory integration training or AIT therapy. For every one of those, there's probably a Wikipedia page which is the new snopes that says that they don't work. Wikipedia, you suck. There. Wikipedia is the new snopes. Yes. That's hilarious. It's entirely run. A big pharma companies have a big, big influence on there. There's about 200 trolls who run Wikipedia and they fight with each other to see who's the biggest troll. It's fantastically beautiful and it's anger. That's hilarious. I used to have a Wikipedia page and then for some reason they removed it.

Follow Up And Additional Resources

Where to Follow Dave (01:59:31)

I still do, but it's super uncomplimentary right now, but there's wars over it. It could be because you're calling them trolls. It could be. Dave, where can people follow you? Go to You can find all my books, all the cool stuff, podcasts, 40 years is in and own and upgrade labs. It's all there. is the single hub for all the Daveness. I love it. Guys, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe and until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. Peace. If you want the secrets to reversing aging and looking younger, be sure to watch this episode here. 66% of women will die on their first cardiovascular event with zero symptoms or warning signs. They don't even know they have a cardiovascular disease. Why? Because of the cool factor of estrogen toxicity.

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